Author Topic: How to remove lawyer lips  (Read 12694 times)

Gus

  • Loosing weight stone by stone
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Re: How to remove lawyer lips
« Reply #25 on: 29 April, 2008, 12:58:25 pm »
With a Stanley knife. And a boot in the fork keeps them quiet enough to do it.
Oh. Not those ones......

Tony you are not at work  :demon:

Chris N

Re: How to remove lawyer lips
« Reply #26 on: 29 April, 2008, 01:12:28 pm »
Where's the evidence that properly done up QRs are getting forced out of dropouts by disk brakes?

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/disk_and_quick_release/index.html has some convincing links.

That's where I ended up too, and then I tried to wade through Jobst Brandt's archived posts: http://yarchive.net/bike/disk_brake_qr.html

Re: How to remove lawyer lips
« Reply #27 on: 29 April, 2008, 01:27:22 pm »
Where's the evidence that properly done up QRs are getting forced out of dropouts by disk brakes?

What evidence do you want?
How do you prove, after the wheel has come out, that the QR was ever done up properly in the first place?
Most deniers seem to take the line that they know it can't happen, so the person who's had their wheel come out must be wrong/lying when they say they had done the QR up properly.

I use rim brakes, but it did happen to a friend pulling up into Briancon campsite after dropping off the Galibier. On a bike new from Longstaff a couple of weeks before, that he'd never taken the front wheel out of. Everything else on the bike, including the rear QR, was done up gorilla-tight.
Dead lucky in one way - at a speed slow enough so it was just minor grazes, on the edge of the only town we passed through that had a good enough bike shop to sell him a new set of forks.

Re: How to remove lawyer lips
« Reply #28 on: 29 April, 2008, 02:13:54 pm »
IMHO hand tools are better for this than power tools. A few strokes with a file, or maybe a rough file and then a smooth, and then finish off with a bit of wet and dry paper and you're done. Using a file will make it easy to keep a flat finish and plus you won't get alu or steel dust flying everywhere.

nitpickles

Re: How to remove lawyer lips
« Reply #29 on: 29 April, 2008, 02:43:26 pm »
LLs are the most pointlessly annoying pieces of metal in the world.

Not on your normal road bike, but they do serve a useful purpose if you use disc brakes, which are capable of twisting a properly done up QR out of the dropouts. Not good if you are still moving at a fair lick.


Something akin to this happened to me a two weekends ago. After a steep descent I heard a rattling and stopped - the rear wheel was rattling around in the Lawyers Lips, the QR completely loose. The front was pretty loose as well, but not to the point of rattling. I blame the crappy Bontrager QRs.

Granted I didn't check to make sure that the QRs were super tight beforehand but I'd not fiddled with them for many many days so they must have gradually worked their way loose.

I was pretty glad to have my LLs still on then and will be checking them more carefully from now on. And I'll be replacing them with cam QRs or allen key bolts.

Dave

Re: How to remove lawyer lips
« Reply #30 on: 29 April, 2008, 02:54:02 pm »
Where's the evidence that properly done up QRs are getting forced out of dropouts by disk brakes?

What evidence do you want?


What evidence have you got? Y'know, repeatable, controlled experimental evidence that this is a real phenomenon. It should be pretty easy data to collect, if you've got access to the right kit.

It seems that the 'disk brakes cause QRs to loosen' argument is a lot like the helmets debate - a whole lot of anecdote and not much data.

By the way, I'm not a 'denier' (and I know you weren't implying that I was). I'll quite happily ditch my QRs for bolt-on skewers if I'm genuinely putting myself at risk.

Chris N

Re: How to remove lawyer lips
« Reply #31 on: 29 April, 2008, 03:14:32 pm »
What evidence have you got? Y'know, repeatable, controlled experimental evidence that this is a real phenomenon. It should be pretty easy data to collect, if you've got access to the right kit.

It seems that the 'disk brakes cause QRs to loosen' argument is a lot like the helmets debate - a whole lot of anecdote and not much data.

By the way, I'm not a 'denier' (and I know you weren't implying that I was). I'll quite happily ditch my QRs for bolt-on skewers if I'm genuinely putting myself at risk.

I haven't seen any (admittedly, I've only looked for about an hour his morning) - but Cannondale's test didn't find any problems.

As far as I can tell, a bolt on skewer would be at risk of exactly the same failure as a QR - it's not the QR that fails, it's the thread that loosens, because of the side loading on the axle from the resultant forces from the disc brake.  A bolt through axle, like that on a motorbike, would be a better solution.  Or move the caliper to the front-right of the fork, so that physical contact between the axle and fork stops any relative motion.

Re: How to remove lawyer lips
« Reply #32 on: 29 April, 2008, 05:27:44 pm »
With a Stanley knife. And a boot in the fork keeps them quiet enough to do it.
Oh. Not those ones......

If their lips are moving, the're lying.

But if you remove their lips, how will you know if the're lying ;D
I don't want to grow old gracefully. I want to grow old disgracefully.

andygates

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Re: How to remove lawyer lips
« Reply #33 on: 29 April, 2008, 05:38:28 pm »
You have just negated all voodoo by posting this prior to the race.  You are now in fairy doodoo territory.

Voodoo doodoo! :o
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
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Domestique

Re: How to remove lawyer lips
« Reply #34 on: 29 April, 2008, 05:47:07 pm »
I would have used a file, but then I am old school  ;D
Nice fettling btw Andy  ;)

Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
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Re: How to remove lawyer lips
« Reply #35 on: 29 April, 2008, 05:48:15 pm »

Or an angle grinder. BTDTGTQR.

..d

Wossat mean then?  ???

J
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

Re: How to remove lawyer lips
« Reply #36 on: 30 April, 2008, 12:10:25 am »
Been There Done That Got The Quick Release  ???