Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => Topic started by: HK on 21 December, 2015, 12:20:26 pm
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As you may be aware, the current Mileater org is stepping down. The current state of play is that the Mileater is firmly stuck in the 20th century with not too many AUKs participating. If changes like including Strava as a recording method for your AUK petit HAMR were included, who would be interested in taking part in 2016 and beyond?
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Including Strava in your challenge would be like relying on GMaps walking for your route verification.
Fine, except for all the limitations, foibles, irritations, until it changes/ dies, and then utterly shite.
I don't really like doing miles for the sake of miles, so I'm unlikely to ever join- but I thought much of the point of the mileater was the diary? The record of events, not just miles? I suppose more dedicated Strava users than I add photos and comments to their Strava.
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The Mileater was set up to record miles and give people like Nev Chanin a better way of recording than in a CTC diary.
My perception of the way forward with the Mileater would be to make it more inclusive, so Strava or similar for people who are focuses on just the miles but a different approach for those who want to record events via photos and the written word.
My Mileater is split in two, Strava for miles and Tumblr for photos and the written word.
The Mileater reports in Arrivee are currently very dull, so contributions there would defiantly be brilliant.
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Would be happy to do a mile eater. But dont do strava etc. Happy to submit a spread sheet with monthly total's. I have been recording my mileage for 25 years now.
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I negotiated spread sheet submissions with the current org many years ago. Unfortunately he didn't make this public.
To my mind it doesn't matter how you record your miles. You just need to be able to submit a record of your daily mileage, monthly and year total as the end of each year.
Mileater should be inclusive, not exclusive.
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Should I know what an HAMR is? I'm sure someone has likened the RRTY * to being on a HAMsteR wheel but I doubt that's anything to do with it.
* sorry, there's me using initials too! Randonneur Round the Year in case anyone is unsure
PS while I type this, they are playing Jethro Tull on the radio. It's good to hear AUKs doing their day jobs
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HAMR is what Steve A is riding at the moment, effectively a competitive one off Mileater.
Good to hear that you are listening to the Tull. One of the band members used to be an outstanding randonneur.
Are we perhaps tempting you into the wonderful world of the Mileater? No annual distance is too small.
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HAMR is what Steve A is riding at the moment, effectively a competitive one off Mileater.
Good to hear that you are listening to the Tull. One of the band members used to be an outstanding randonneur.
Are we perhaps tempting you into the wonderful world of the Mileater? No annual distance is too small.
Of course, Highest Annual Mileage Record, I should have know that.
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So hk, are you running the 2016 mile eaters? As 2016 is lest then two weeks away.
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Trying to find out if there is demand as the Mileater needs some work putting into it to make it accessible to riders.
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I haven't logged my riding for a couple of years. I miss the motivational aspect of it. I might go back to it, and this would be as good a context as any.
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I think an online format would be a welcome alternative.
I used to do the diary (have two or three, from memory) but in recent years haven't been motivated to keep one.
My riding tends to get logged on Strava, for the convenience (upload) and also because the monthly challenges maintain a bit of motivation. I'd "attach" myself to a Strava community or similar if branded AUK MileEater.
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I don't think HK is aiming at an either/ or approach. She is quite keen on folk choosing whatever option they wish to log their miles.
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What does participating in the "mileater" thang offer to a rider who isn't within a shout of winning the prize? (Genuine question.)
I already know that I ride more than most civilians and many club cyclists (I will top out somewhere between 13,000 and 14,000 miles this year) but a hell of a lot less than the top echelons of the AUK community. It seems to me that a daily / weekly / monthly reminder of this would just end up being demoralising. What am I missing?
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Not everybody (including me) is hooked on Stravaaaah!
There are free sites like bikejournal.com and mycyclinglog.com that you can easily use to log your rides.
Would either of these be acceptable?
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Assume the answer is yes. HK will say so if not.
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Apologies if this question is answered in several other places---but where do we send our completed 2015 mileater diaries to have them validated and obtain our 2016 paper diaries? ???
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A benefit/drawback* of Strava (and presumably other similar sites) is that you can create a group/club and then your mileage is shown against others "live".
I think it can also be set up as a closed group, so as to keep it to those registered to the MileEater scheme.
Although perhaps that's going beyond what the MileEater scheme was set up to be (where you only really keep in touch with other riders post season).
Strava is by no means perfect, particularly for AUK type activity where the emphasis is on "how much" rather than "how fast". I'm not well enough versed in alternatives to know whether I'd prefer to use them over Strava.
I'd quite like to see the MileEater take off, if I'm honest. It has a different vibe to other aspects of AUK, and its a vibe attuned to how I view long distance cycling.
*delete according to your view of whether seeing your results against others is a good or bad thing
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I always fill in my mileater diary, I find it useful as I also log things like *fitted new chain or *bought 6 virtual DIY's brevets.
I'd be willing to continue as it is but happy to adapt and change as I'm quite a modern gentleman.
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What does participating in the "mileater" thang offer to a rider who isn't within a shout of winning the prize? (Genuine question.)
Self-satisfaction, I guess. 'Aiming to win' the Mileater is frowned upon by virtually all of the high mileage types. Distances are self-reported with no proof needed, so you could lie through your teeth and have a fantastic (in both senses of the word) total distance.
I think it was mostly set up as a gateway drug to the 300,000 Mile Club.
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Never done the existing mileater, but something a bit more modern would appeal.
I did bikejournal for years, dumped it to Excel when I stopped and maintain that as a main record. I do use Stravaaah, and find some of the visuals useful, but it does lack a few things which would stop me using it solely, not the least of which is the ability to similarly export to Excel!
Other point to ponder is whether indoor miles should count. I'm increasingly doing more with my smart trainer in the virtual worlds of Zwift. It's harder work than riding outdoors and actually the most data-rich riding I ever do with all of the measured power data from the trainer, plus HR and cadence.
Mmmmm data...
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I've never entered Mileater as I couldn't imagine maintaining the paper diary. The concept appeals though if it was manageable online. I've recently adopted Strava as it has been interesting seeing how high mileage riders have accumulated their miles. I'm not particularly interested in the other ride stats so any not-so-proprietry online logging would do athough the Strava feature of showing where people have ridden is appealing.
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I have three old Mileater diaries in an inaccessible drawer under my bed, with all my brevet cards.
I'll get them out and read them with nostalgia one day.
Maybe...
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Other point to ponder is whether indoor miles should count.
Noooooooo ..... surely only a short hop from there to "should I count the miles I was going to do but stayed under the duvet instead" ;)
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I've got a few old Mileater diaries which I very occasionally look at either for reference purposes or for nostalgia.
I stopped entering Mileater when I started entering my rides on a spreadsheet- and now I use RwGPS.
The electronic versions lack the ability to include witty asides and little sketches (!) - at least easily, and I feel they are less permanent somehow than paper.
If I really, really wanted to continue with paper records I'd buy a notebook from a shop and do it that way. If AUK (we) want to continue with Mileater then electronic submission is probably the way to go, either that or a self-certified end-of-year total submission- which feels a bit 'dry'.
On the other hand the question remains- what is the purpose of Mileater? I doubt it motivates, there's only one trophy, and you don't need it for nostalgia or records.
I'd suggest that if Mileater is to continue then there needs to be a number of different awards apart from greatest annual mileage. For example - 'highest mileage outside UK', 'greatest climbing height', youngest/oldest/opposite sex, tricycle/down-wrong/hand cycle/eliptigo etc, 'highest average ride length' as random top-of-my-head thoughts.
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From memory, HK has mainly been wanting to boost the 'progressive and cumulative' aspects of the award. There is currently 30,000/ 60,000/ 90,000 cumulative distance patches available for purchase. She was talking about 100,000/ 200,000 cumulative distances being appropriate targets but I'll leave HK to describe the rest.
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My last Mileater diary was a couple of hundred commutes to work and a couple of 200km Randos, adding up to 10,000 km.
My employer took my company car off me because I hardly used it, so I thought ‘bollux, I’ll get a medal for the 35 miles per day cycling now I’m committed to it’.
It was a paper diary and wasn’t difficult to write “56 km” in the panel.
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The idea is to make it inclusive not exclusive and to facilitate people keeping their miles, comments, photos in a way that's meaningful to them. There is no right or wrong way or format in keeping your Mileater in my world.
The hope would be that people would share their comments, observations and photos for at least one cracking good article a year. The 300,000 miles club do this submitting a short paragraph about their year.
I'm not too keen on the idea of a'winner' each year, so would very much prefer inclusive awards if that was possible. AUK brands itself as 'the long distance cycling association' so the Mileater is a nice extension of logging brevets without creating a 'brevet Strava'.
Nev Chanin used to hand out Miles tea to Mileater folk which was kind of nice.
I've come to the forum to see if;
A) the Mileater still has a place in AUK
B) if the answer to a) is yes to bring it up to date and preferably something that the members want.
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I for one just like the format and see no reason for change.
But then I can't be bothered with strava or "Garmins" (but I am IT literate; more or less)
Please keep paper format going as a record of our miles and for the annual abstracted comments published in Arrivee.
As for related awards---unlikely ever to trouble me unless I get something for x000k after long period of time?
Thanks for keeping the paper diary alive in this digital age. :thumbsup:
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Other point to ponder is whether indoor miles should count.
Noooooooo ..... surely only a short hop from there to "should I count the miles I was going to do but stayed under the duvet instead" ;)
Indoor miles on a moving bike are perfectly legitimate, I reckon.
Indoor Joules on a stationary bike aren't miles. :)
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I've come to the forum to see if;
A) the Mileater still has a place in AUK ...
I've been interested in reading peoples thoughts about this too, especially after HK's comments about it not really attracting a lot of attention with AUK members.
It's not something that appeals to me personally but I'm curious to see if there is still life in the MileEater for others. It's never really struck me as "Audax"; although you can certainly include your long distance rides, it's more about popping down to the shops, riding to work, going on your cycling holidays, just the day to day living but on a bike. There's no necessity to pre-state your ride intentions, and there's no validations. It's always seemed to me as more of a CTC thing.
However, I have no agenda here, and I certainly have no desire to kill it off. Audax UK is certainly broad enough to include other "speciality" areas, such as AAA and OCD, and I have to say I doubt CTC would be interested in running the MileEater!
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Mileater is possibly better aligned with the CTC ('old CTC) in much the same way as AAA or OCD is but the new CTC isn't interested in that sort of thing very much. There are some historic links with Mick Potts of the Derby Mercury creating the Mileater for AUK quite a few years ago.
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The Mileater was started within AUK by Mick Latimer. He was inspired to set up the award because he saw AUK members Neville Chanin and Chris Davies writing their miles in CTC diaries and felt that they should have something better, hence the paper diaries.
The Mileater scheme was set up by Mick when he returned to Australia. Mick had been a very active AUK.
The connection with AUK and mileating is 300,000 mile club. If you look down their list of members and hall of fame residents you will see lots of familiar names such as Jim Hopper, Pat Kenny, Nev Chanin, Chris Davies, Dave Poutney, McNasty to name but a few. Therefore Mileating is an extension of AUK activities and has super close links with 300,000 miles club. To include it within AUKs range of activities I think is very appropriate.
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True HK. Brain fade on my part with the wrong Mick.
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The vast majority of my mileage, by a very long way, is clocked up outside of brevets. Where it is from the house I do it without GPS or any other navigational aid other than my knowledge of the lanes. So were I to take part it'd need to be a system where I didn't need to load any GPS tracks anywhere. If I could log online my mileage, date, short comment on weather and ride and perhaps load a photo and see how others are getting on I might be likely to take part. I think online might push me to up the mileage rather just record what I'm doing anyway. But I do like the idea of just quickly jotting it down in a diary.
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The vast majority of my mileage, by a very long way, is clocked up outside of brevets. Where it is from the house I do it without GPS or any other navigational aid other than my knowledge of the lanes. So were I to take part it'd need to be a system where I didn't need to load any GPS tracks anywhere. If I could log online my mileage, date, short comment on weather and ride and perhaps load a photo and see how others are getting on I might be likely to take part. I think online might push me to up the mileage rather just record what I'm doing anyway. But I do like the idea of just quickly jotting it down in a diary.
That's why I'm suggesting keeping some form of paper diary as well as spreadsheets and on-line. There is no wrong way to record you rides.
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The vast majority of my mileage, by a very long way, is clocked up outside of brevets. Where it is from the house I do it without GPS or any other navigational aid other than my knowledge of the lanes. So were I to take part it'd need to be a system where I didn't need to load any GPS tracks anywhere. If I could log online my mileage, date, short comment on weather and ride and perhaps load a photo and see how others are getting on I might be likely to take part. I think online might push me to up the mileage rather just record what I'm doing anyway. But I do like the idea of just quickly jotting it down in a diary.
Ahem... https://www.mycyclinglog.com/group_view.php?gid=598 (https://www.mycyclinglog.com/group_view.php?gid=598)
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I've come to the forum to see if;
A) the Mileater still has a place in AUK ...
I've been interested in reading peoples thoughts about this too, especially after HK's comments about it not really attracting a lot of attention with AUK members.
It's not something that appeals to me personally but I'm curious to see if there is still life in the MileEater for others. It's never really struck me as "Audax"; although you can certainly include your long distance rides, it's more about popping down to the shops, riding to work, going on your cycling holidays, just the day to day living but on a bike. There's no necessity to pre-state your ride intentions, and there's no validations. It's always seemed to me as more of a CTC thing.
However, I have no agenda here, and I certainly have no desire to kill it off. Audax UK is certainly broad enough to include other "speciality" areas, such as AAA and OCD, and I have to say I doubt CTC would be interested in running the MileEater!
I would say that Mileater is a far more appropriate place to log non brevet distance than turning say a Sportive into a brevet by recording it on your GPS.
Including your miles say to work or hauling the shopping home is perfectly valid. Nobody is worried about AAA points being acquired on a 50km ride home from work.
Anybody who has ridden a good years total will know its a worthy long distance challenge. And for folks like the late great Pat Kenny, to ride 30,000 miles in a year has to involve more than popping down to the shops as that's 82 miles a day.
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I would say that Mileater is a far more appropriate place to log non brevet distance than turning say a Sportive into a brevet by recording it on your GPS.
Somewhat off-topic I know but this reads like you are, belatedly,objecting to the amendment to Appendix 7.1 enacted by the Board over a year ago and ratified at the recent AGM? Apologies if I'm reading too much in to it, but I do think it's a shame you were not around on the AUK forum (or indeed at the AGM itself) to debate the point.
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I would say that Mileater is a far more appropriate place to log non brevet distance than turning say a Sportive into a brevet by recording it on your GPS.
Somewhat off-topic I know but this reads like you are, belatedly,objecting to the amendment to Appendix 7.1 enacted by the Board over a year ago and ratified at the recent AGM? Apologies if I'm reading too much in to it, but I do think it's a shame you were not around on the AUK forum (or indeed at the AGM itself) to debate the point.
My point is, that as AUK has accepted this its then very difficult to suggest that the Mileater isn't relevant to the portfolio of its award schemes, particularly given its history explained further up thread and length of time its been running, since 1990.
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Here’s a question.
When riding a Calendar or Perm event, that brevet can be used in the pursuit of ONLY one award. Is this true?
Therefore, all distance logged in a Mileater diary cannot be used to claim individual medals or patches. This is the way I rode year 2000. Everything was for the 10,000 km mileater medal.
Mind you, only 2 x 200km Randos were included in my Mileater diary.
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Your initial assumption is wrong. You could use the same event to simultaneously claim Super Randonneur, Randonneur Round the Year, Brevet 2000, Randonneur 5000 and others. If you want to do something different, that is your choice.
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HK, I would be up for this and to be honest I have been procrastinating sending my cheque off as I am just not sure if I would want/remember/bother to keep the written diary.
This year I have kept track of milage via Strava/RWGPS and I was keeping notes via my blog although most of this is in note form that I need to put together.
I have been surprised at how many people have commented that they enjoy reading the posts and I am pretty determined that I am going to make more effort to keep the written side updated in the next year.
I also do a lot of my milage outside of Brevet and I intend to get my youngest out on the road this year so although I suspect less milage it should still be interesting.
I may have missed it but if I want to join the 'programme ' do I still send off my cheque and SAE?
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The vast majority of my mileage, by a very long way, is clocked up outside of brevets. Where it is from the house I do it without GPS or any other navigational aid other than my knowledge of the lanes. So were I to take part it'd need to be a system where I didn't need to load any GPS tracks anywhere. If I could log online my mileage, date, short comment on weather and ride and perhaps load a photo and see how others are getting on I might be likely to take part. I think online might push me to up the mileage rather just record what I'm doing anyway. But I do like the idea of just quickly jotting it down in a diary.
I think Strava is still a viable (free) option for collating your ride data, especially without a GPS unit.
I kept spread sheets, used a program called tracklogs for years, but that's all gone. replaced by Strava which in my view is such a strong product that its here to stay. I barely look at any of the speed data
Any ride can be entered manually just like a diary, adding comments and photos as you want, they can also be added historically. While laid up for three months this year I passed the time and had great fun remembering all my past 10 years big rides and adding them manually from my other logs. It also provided the added of attraction of passing 100K miles logged on Strava.
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Your initial assumption is wrong. You could use the same event to simultaneously claim Super Randonneur, Randonneur Round the Year, Brevet 2000, Randonneur 5000 and others. If you want to do something different, that is your choice.
Then I was told wrong in 1995.
The organiser at my second event, a 200, told me I couldn't have a medal for that event and count it in the Rando 500 patch. I could do either but not both.
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Organisers can be wrong.
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tippers_kiwi,
Sounds like you have an article for Arrivee there!
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Don't know what's happening about submitting 2015 diaries and how entries work for 2016.
Given the interest here I will go and have further discussions with the Board.
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I've kept notebooks with miles and routes done since 1994 and, being a creature of habit, will keep it up. But I do quite like the idea of making it official. It counts every ride I've done, even the quarter mile round the block to test whether the brakes work after I've adjusted them. I've no thought of putting something on Strava - I very much doubt that in 15 years time records stored in such a means will be accessible whereas (rather quaintly) I can still trace the route of my 1994 rides from my paper records. Dates and distances are recorded in spreadsheet for use in calculating Eddingtons etc
So I'd be quite happy to join Mileater- even if I am very unlikely to reach the 300,000 mile club (would need 13,000 miles a year for the next 19 years and Mrs CET is definitely not going to let that happen!)
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I very much doubt that in 15 years time records stored in such a means will be accessible whereas (rather quaintly) I can still trace the route of my 1994 rides from my paper records
This is a very real problem. Babylonian records on stone tablets are more easily read than stuff on obsolete hardware and software. Even AUK ride records from before 2000 are not available on the current computer system, as they are on paper somewhere and it would be an impossibly enormous task to scan it all. Or at least I doubt anyone would volunteer to take it on.
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The way I use Strava sounds very much like what the Mileeater Diary is for. But automated, sharable and with better analysis tools.
Like all web services, I don't trust Strava to exist next year. It'll go bust, suffer a tragic data loss or get borged by $EvilCo. So I have copies of the raw GPX files on my own sever.
There won't be any problem reading GPX files in 15 years. Even if there isn't any software that does it, it's a clear human-readable format, and if necessary I could write my own. The files themselves will be fine as long as they're kept on a running system rather than gathering dust on some media somewhere.
Even AUK ride records from before 2000 are not available on the current computer system, as they are on paper somewhere and it would be an impossibly enormous task to scan it all.
That's an argument *for* electronic records, not against it. :P
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Even AUK ride records from before 2000 are not available on the current computer system, as they are on paper somewhere and it would be an impossibly enormous task to scan it all.
That's an argument *for* electronic records, not against it. :P
It wasn't an argument for or against.
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I really enjoy poring over old paper records in my crippled dotage.
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Even AUK ride records from before 2000 are not available on the current computer system, as they are on paper somewhere and it would be an impossibly enormous task to scan it all. Or at least I doubt anyone would volunteer to take it on.
I refer the honourable member to the Recorder's report to the Board Meeting of 29 January 2014 ;D
FF of this forum did exactly that for all the available records back to 1987. A herculean task worthy of much applause.
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After a mileater paper diary got lost in the post between me and Father Christmas the then organiser I use Strava, save the tracks here at home then create a spreadsheet for 300,000 mile club both hard and soft copy.
Just depends on how important your miles are as to the level of record keeping you go for.
I do like Strava from the sharing point of view plus it makes the back of the Kit-Kat wrapper calcs easier. Lots going on right now as new end if year number keep appearing.
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Could have sworn I'd already posted on this thread but clearly not!
In summary:
I like the analogue nature of the mileater but wish the format was better.
I already use strava only as a training/distance record. I could just submit the data but what's the point? Most of my time on the bike is off road and I don't ride junk miles for the sake of distance. The arbitrary 'distance' is no reflection of my time or effort on the bike. But flicking back through a brief personal 'wow it was hard going in the mud, 2 crashes tonight' makes keeping the record worthwhile for me personally.
I have no interest in other people's actual distance but loads of interest in reading their accounts. I wish we got to hear more than the few snippets put in arrivee
I'd like a reformatted booklet and the opportunity for people to digitize them as blogs
Using strava or any other online data collection would be dull number crunching only.
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What are the requirements to indulge in 2016, if it runs? I'm a lapsed out of practice AUKista and definitely ex CTC member - if that helps ;) I spreadsheet with notes and this year have used the YACF group thing on My Cycling Log, which has provided some pleasant added motivation. So Mileater sounds good :thumbsup:
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HK is still sorting out the transition with AUK and she'll post here as soon as that is finalised. Part of the problem is that she doesn't know where the legacy medals and Mileater books are or how many of them exist.
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Do you still get the Mileater medal even if you're not the number one rider? I've only just started Audaxes and might only ride 4,000 or so miles a year.
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PS I completely agree with the Strava comments. Most cyclists use it to log their rides these days - and it also tots up the miles over a calendar year, from Jan 1 to Dec 31, which would be ideal for this.
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PPS If the current organiser is stepping down, who do we send our cheques to for 2016? Website states Rob Hidderley - is he the new chap or the one stepping down?
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Rob Hinderley is the guy stepping down. Don't really understand what's happening for 2016 as can't get a sensible answer.
For 2015 diaries go to Rob Hinderley via snail mail as usual.
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Do you still get the Mileater medal even if you're not the number one rider? I've only just started Audaxes and might only ride 4,000 or so miles a year.
Annual Mileater medals are still available at £10 each.
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HK -- I have never entered before -- but as a gesture of support for your efforts -- count me in this time . I will be in Oz soon - and will keep Strava updated -- not much good at comment and photos but might try to do better. let me know sometime - who to send money to -- and how much. Rog
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I've really enjoyed filling in my diary this - my first - audax year. Other than Workplace Challenge - https://www.workplacechallenge.org.uk/ (https://www.workplacechallenge.org.uk/) (which allows many different sports activities to be logged, but not automatically tracked), I don't use any electronic recording or tracking devices like strava, so having the paper book has been really useful. I also agree that being able to write additional notes and random thoughts in the diary makes it much more memorable than just recording mileage. If an electronic version of the diary existed I might consider using it. But in a world where everything seems to be online and/or in electronic format it's really nice to use older technology and also to have a physical record to flick through in years to come - by which time I doubt the electronic records will still be around - and even if they are, I doubt a senile, dribbling, older self will be able to access them!
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PPS If the current organiser is stepping down, who do we send our cheques to for 2016? Website states Rob Hidderley - is he the new chap or the one stepping down?
http://forum.audax.uk/index.php?topic=988.msg8868;topicseen#msg8868
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Which is saying that Rob is taking submissions for 2016. So when will the handover actually take place? Before 2017?
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I have enjoyed my Mileater diary (first full year doing Audax). I have had a cycling/other activities diary for a couple of years and this has worked well for me. I shy away from too much technology and enjoy the writing/pondering after a ride. It is also handy to look back over for nostalgia and inspiration. I know I am a long way from achieving high mileage, but it has increased on last year. I will understand if it doesn't continue - I will continue to keep a paper cycling diary!
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It's good to hear that people want to embrace all the forms of mile recording. Plus it's really positive that riders view mile recording as a personal journey not a competitive one.
The Mileater has just celebrated it 25th year since Mick set it up. Looks like it has a future.
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Sounds like a fun thing to do - I'd prefer strava, but may well sign up for 2016 (not too late?) - I like the idea of a medal, I hope 2016 brings a reasonable distance (for me at least!) :)
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Y'know, I'm tempted, just for the fun of it. It's a shame my mileage is so pitiful compared to so many :facepalm: but my record keeping isn't bad :thumbsup:
It has to be for personal gratification — I'm not winning any awards.
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Any news on who we have to send our tenner to for this year yet?
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I understand that it remains the incumbent, as listed on the webpage.
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I understand that it remains the incumbent, as listed on the webpage.
Fab, thank you!
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Just got my 2016 diary from Rob Hidderley with no hint of any changes as yet.
Thanks Rob :thumbsup: