Damien Hirst

[David Martin]

I like Gormley's work.

Art is obviously derived from 'artisan', soemone who can create things. In the same way that a painter creates an image of a scene, they are an artist. Not just creating but putting an interpretation on the way they create something.

Where does the boundary lie between a skilled technician (a photorealistic representation of a scene) and an artist?

[Cudzoziemiec]

Art is obviously derived from 'artisan', soemone who can create things.

Other way, round, I'm pretty sure. But your point holds. Both are users of artifice.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Modern Art seems to be largely anything you say is art.  I can live with that as a basis for art, so long as that alone isn't the argument for something being art, and there's also some degree of originality, imagination, even discussion about it (although not simply whether it's art or not).

I was thinking to myself the other day that the difference between modern art and traditional art is that the traditional stuff is obviously art independent of its context, whereas modern art may or may not seem to be art, all dependent on context. What prompted me to think this was popping into the Arnolfini and seeing an exhibition of models of book covers in metal, each of a real book that had been written using a pseudonym. There was a little note with each one explaining why the author had not used their real name. I'd actually seen part of the same exhibition already, in the children's section of the Central Library, and had taken it to be a way to get kids interested in the writers and writing as well as stories - had I not seen it in a gallery it would never have occurred to me to call it 'art'.

So anything is art if it's placed in an art gallery?

There is a lot of truth in that. 
[...]

Yes, kind of. But what I saw in the library wasn't purely a functional object like a vacuum cleaner, it was something obviously created with an artistic intent. Not necessarily to look pretty (it wasn't at all, IMO) but, I presume, to provoke. I suppose that whereas what you saw in Manchester and in the warehouse showed the blur between art and utility, what I saw showed the blur between art and philosophy (though philosophy seems too grand a word for it, but I can't think of a more appropriate one right now).

[Cudzoziemiec]

Damien Hirst is showing his own influences here.

[citoyen]

I don't think we could expect anyone to make such a piece unaided. All artists have workshops, that's what being a master craftsman is about

Indeed. It's worth remembering that Michelangelo didn't paint the Sistine chapel alone...

Not fussed about Damien Hirst but there's loads of other great stuff to see at Tate Modern - favourite exhibition of recent years was the Fischli and Weiss. And I love the Rothko Seagram murals, which are on permanent display (and free to view).

I don't think it really matters if you "get it" or not, just whether or not you like it. There's plenty enough art in the world to choose from that you don't have to waste time bothering with the stuff you don't like/get.

d.

[LEE]

I don't think we could expect anyone to make such a piece unaided. All artists have workshops, that's what being a master craftsman is about

Indeed. It's worth remembering that Michelangelo didn't paint the Sistine chapel alone...

....and that the Pope had actually requested "Barley White" on the ceilings.

[citoyen]

....and that the Pope had actually requested "Barley White" on the ceilings.

 

I'm actually going to see the Damien Hirst exhibition this lunchtime. I'm not paying for it, mind - got a free pass through work because the company is a corporate member, so I thought I might as well check it out. I'll let you know what I think...

I'm also keen to check out the Alighiero Boetti exhibition. And m'colleague says the Yayoi Kusama exhibition is also worth a look - I've never heard of her before but she sounds interesting.

d.

[citoyen]

Verdict: I liked it a lot more than I was expecting to. It's a very well put together exhibition, though really only an overview of his work, not a comprehensive retrospective.

I had a look at the skull too. I thought the setting in the turbine hall worked really well, heightened the sense of drama, and as an object, it is breathtaking.

Had a quick look round the Boetti too. I was a bit short of time so had to rush it, but what I saw was, I thought, excellent. Definitely merits a return visit for a proper look. Interestingly, a lot of Boetti's stuff is made in workshops by artisans, following his instructions. The Boetti exhibition wasn't as popular as the Hirst, but what it lacked in numbers, it made up for in celebrities - Fabio Capello was in there with his wife.

Didn't have time to see the Yayoi Kusama, unfortunately, so will have to save that for another day too.

d.

[citoyen]

Saw the Kusama today. Marvellous. Loved it.

Not one for all you "if it's not a nice painting it's not art" types but perfect for anyone who enjoys looking at bits of furniture and shoes covered in phallic beanbags...



d.

[Tigerrr]

Hirsts dead animals in pickle are a meditation on mortality, as is so much of his work.  There is also an intent to shock and provoke.

I have given this a bit of thought and I think that an actual working abattoir installed in the Tate with live animals entering at one end, being slaughtered, butchered, (pickled to order) and then being able to buy signed packs of meat or burgers in the bar after would 'extend the conversation'.
This would be a multi media, multisensorial experience.  Visual, sound, smell, touch - even eating all encompassed. truly awesome.
I cannot imagine why nobody has done this. Its a very important statement about art and authenticity as well - the point being that art itself is nearly always a fake version of reality as opposed to actual reality. I was very aware of this issue at the Kapoor exhibition in which he showed a room full of concrete imitation turds when he could have much more effectively used real ones.

[citoyen]

The last room of the Hirst exhibition is in fact a gift shop (a special one for the exhibition, separate from the Tate's main gift shop). I did wonder if it was meant to be ironic.

d.

[RJ]

The last room of the Hirst exhibition is in fact a gift shop (a special one for the exhibition, separate from the Tate's main gift shop). I did wonder if it was meant to be ironic.

d.

Nah - that's post-irony, see (they'll accept real money).

[citoyen]

They had a barbecue going outside the front of Tate Modern today. No "Mother & Child" burger on offer though.

Merchandising opportunity missed.

d.

[Ian H]