Author Topic: [HAMR] Current thoughts on the record attempt?  (Read 252768 times)

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #300 on: 11 August, 2015, 01:15:20 pm »
Kurt's lost a bit of speed recently due his lung issues (which I hope are resolved soon); as Jo's graph shows, he's normally at 18 and quite frequently a good bit more. Steve's average has fluctuated hugely due to his various travails, but it seems his 'natural' speed is around 16mph. With something like 240 mpd being the presumed target through the late summer, that's 15 hours a day on the road, plus stopping time, which probably doesn't leave enough time for adequate rest. I've seen reference to Steve using HR to keep the fatigue stress down, which has perhaps limited his speed. It's a problem - too fast and burn out, too slow and insufficient miles? I think if I were in his shoes, I'd do the same: at least ride for the full year even if the distance isn't quite there, rather than have to finish early with fewer (but faster) miles.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #301 on: 11 August, 2015, 09:02:33 pm »

Not really.  He has ridden faster than Kurt on a few days, but that probably coincides with days that Kurt has experienced adverse weather conditions or medical issues. 


Kurt has also ridden 1,500 more miles than Steve over the last 3 weeks.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #302 on: 11 August, 2015, 09:12:02 pm »
Upthread, Kim suggests Steve is pacing with a HRM. That’s a sensible approach.


Not really. Heart rate is the least accurate measure of effort in an ultra endurance event such as this.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #303 on: 11 August, 2015, 09:25:45 pm »
Upthread, Kim suggests Steve is pacing with a HRM. That’s a sensible approach.


Not really. Heart rate is the least accurate measure of effort in an ultra endurance such as this.

I'm also slightly puzzled if that is the dictating indicator.  I'm not sure how it would be possible to calculate in advance what the optimum heart rate would be over the whole year when by the very nature of the event the factors involved have not been experienced before (including by Steve over this timescale).

It could be he's "keeping the brakes on" or conversely (less likely) over-extending himself.  Surely it eventually just comes down to feel.
The sound of one pannier flapping

hillbilly

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #304 on: 12 August, 2015, 09:35:31 am »
I'd imagine that the HRM would be a useful indicator of over-training.  But often that simply backs up what your body is feeding back.  On the bike, Steve is experienced enough to know when he is pushing too hard (particularly as he is riding solo, rather than being befuddled by the influence of other riders who may be riding at a different tempo).

I look at Steve's current mileage and think he's doing just fine.  Sensible in fact, and gives me more confidence that he will achieve the record.  Anyone who thought he would suddenly jump from 150 mile "recovery" rides to 250 mile+ "record" rides, after doing long miles for six months and recovering from a broken ankle, is asking too much of him as an athlete.  It is, after all, simply the first week in his new attempt and he probably has half an eye on the sleep deprivation in foreign climes and the general exertion and associated fatigue that PBP will entail.  The latter half of August will (I imagine) be more telling.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #305 on: 12 August, 2015, 10:16:16 am »
Upthread, Kim suggests Steve is pacing with a HRM. That’s a sensible approach.


Not really. Heart rate is the least accurate measure of effort in an ultra endurance event such as this.

Let's have a list of more accurate metrics.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #306 on: 12 August, 2015, 10:41:45 am »
A HRM in endurance events is a method by which the athlete can judge their condition against previously recorded results from heavily exhaustive investigation.

This means the HRM user on events such as Steve’s should have been monitoring their condition for at least 12 months to gain knowledge of ‘Expected’ for riding conditions.

Riding at ‘Expected’ will give Steve the best chance of success.

If the HRM does something ‘Unexpected’, it could be sign of illness, which is what Steve doesn’t want.
If Steve’s HR is consistently above ‘Expected’ on any day, he can consult his team doctor or physician.

simonp

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #307 on: 12 August, 2015, 10:46:04 am »
Yesterday's ride had an average HR of 85bpm according to teh Strava.

Slacker!

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #308 on: 12 August, 2015, 12:39:27 pm »
Upthread, Kim suggests Steve is pacing with a HRM. That’s a sensible approach.


Not really. Heart rate is the least accurate measure of effort in an ultra endurance event such as this.

Let's have a list of more accurate metrics.

Number one on my list would be watts (normalized power). Of course this number alone means little, and you need to monitor all the basic metrics (HR, waking HR, blood pressure before/after rides, sleep hours, RPE, weekly blood tests, etc) in combination with wattage to know if a rider is overdoing it, or leaving something on the table.

Increasing or decreasing daily normalized power to adjust to the riders physiology is *much* more effective than riding to a certain self-imposed HR.

mattc

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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #309 on: 12 August, 2015, 12:43:49 pm »
Upthread, Kim suggests Steve is pacing with a HRM. That’s a sensible approach.


Not really. Heart rate is the least accurate measure of effort in an ultra endurance event such as this.

Let's have a list of more accurate metrics.

Number one on my list would be watts (normalized power). Of course this number alone means little, and you need to monitor all the basic metrics (HR, waking HR, blood pressure before/after rides, sleep hours, RPE, weekly blood tests, etc) in combination with wattage to know if a rider is overdoing it, or leaving something on the table.

Increasing or decreasing daily normalized power to adjust to the riders physiology is *much* more effective than riding to a certain self-imposed HR.
So that's:
One (1)

(and it's a lot of work to monitor all that stuff, but that's by-the-by)

How many of these more accurate metrics do you have?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #310 on: 12 August, 2015, 12:56:48 pm »
Yesterday's ride had an average HR of 85bpm according to teh Strava.

Slacker!

Steve will be along shortly to confirm that was 'As expected'.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #311 on: 12 August, 2015, 01:04:06 pm »
I’ve sussed it.

The road into Marsh Gibbon is flat and straight. That’s where Steve checks his HR against previous data.

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #312 on: 12 August, 2015, 01:08:09 pm »
If Steve checks his HR against previous data, I would have thought it's mainly via the ride analysis page on Strava. Of course, Ning, you may not use that as it really needs a Garmin to log the data! ;D

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #313 on: 12 August, 2015, 01:32:21 pm »
I think I have learned from what I have done so far.
I'm not just going by heart rate but also by feel.
Nor am I riding to a specific heart rate.

Even I don't know my route for the day.
I check the weather each morning then decide. I often change my route during the day
 Today is an example. Route change and early stop for a feed so I can buy a front light as I forgot my battery. :facepalm:

Taking things a bit easy to start with.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #314 on: 12 August, 2015, 02:07:09 pm »
Upthread, Kim suggests Steve is pacing with a HRM. That’s a sensible approach.


Not really. Heart rate is the least accurate measure of effort in an ultra endurance event such as this.

Let's have a list of more accurate metrics.

Number one on my list would be watts (normalized power). Of course this number alone means little, and you need to monitor all the basic metrics (HR, waking HR, blood pressure before/after rides, sleep hours, RPE, weekly blood tests, etc) in combination with wattage to know if a rider is overdoing it, or leaving something on the table.

Increasing or decreasing daily normalized power to adjust to the riders physiology is *much* more effective than riding to a certain self-imposed HR.
So that's:
One (1)


I would also put RPE ahead of HR monitoring for pacing. 1-Power, 2-RPE, and 3-HR. There are no others easily monitored while riding.

Also, other than blood testing, it would take no more than 5 minutes per day to record all the other metrics. Of course you'd need a trainer and doctor to track/assess the data and recommend adjustments, but without a power meter you'd have no accurate/reliable metric to adjust to.


Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #315 on: 12 August, 2015, 02:19:36 pm »
The number 1 consideration I use to adjust riding speed is,,

Will all the cake be eaten before I arrive?

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #316 on: 12 August, 2015, 06:43:05 pm »
I would also put RPE ahead of HR monitoring for pacing.
that's hilarious.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #317 on: 12 August, 2015, 08:34:46 pm »
I would also put RPE ahead of HR monitoring for pacing.
that's hilarious.

Laugh away, or go read any of the published studies on HR response and cardiac drift during ultra endurance exercise. The choice is yours....

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #318 on: 12 August, 2015, 10:50:12 pm »
I think I have learned from what I have done so far.
I'm not just going by heart rate but also by feel.
Nor am I riding to a specific heart rate.

Even I don't know my route for the day.
I check the weather each morning then decide. I often change my route during the day
 Today is an example. Route change and early stop for a feed so I can buy a front light as I forgot my battery. :facepalm:

Taking things a bit easy to start with.


Good to hear from you TG.  I like the idea of being free to ride where you feel like riding - they're often the best ones.
Eddington Numbers 130 (imperial), 182 (metric) 571 (furlongs)  114 (nautical miles)

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #319 on: 13 August, 2015, 11:34:40 am »
There are two measurements of exertion one can use while cycling that do not require any additional equipment.
The first is the simple test whether the exertion can be accomplished by breathing only in through the nose. When the mouth is required for breathing in, workrate is increasing.
The second is the drip of sweat off your brow. When this happens, you can bet you’re working hard, so slow down!  :thumbsup:

An accomplished AUK cyclist only needs to breathe in through the mouth on upward hills.
Being able to only use the nose for breathing on flat roads allows the cyclist to eat boiled sweets.

Auks very seldom have a drip of sweat run down into their eye from the brow.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #320 on: 13 August, 2015, 03:04:49 pm »

Auks very seldom have a drip of sweat run down into their eye from the brow.

I do, almost constantly.

Perhaps I should knit myself a headband.

Mr Larrington

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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #321 on: 13 August, 2015, 03:31:05 pm »
Auks very seldom have a drip of sweat run down into their eye from the brow.

Clearly Sir did not ride the Alan Furley in 2005 :)
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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #322 on: 17 August, 2015, 08:23:07 am »

Auks very seldom have a drip of sweat run down into their eye from the brow.

I do, almost constantly.

Perhaps I should knit myself a headband.

I bought one. When Laurant Fignon won the tour.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #323 on: 17 August, 2015, 09:09:40 am »

Auks very seldom have a drip of sweat run down into their eye from the brow.

I do, almost constantly.

Perhaps I should knit myself a headband.
Headbands give you funny sun tan lines on your head  :P ;D

I bought one. When Laurant Fignon won the tour.
Eddington Number 75

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #324 on: 17 August, 2015, 10:26:03 am »

Auks very seldom have a drip of sweat run down into their eye from the brow.

I do, almost constantly.

Perhaps I should knit myself a headband.
Headbands give you funny sun tan lines on your head  :P ;D

I bought one. When Laurant Fignon won the tour.

Not as funny as a bald bloke in a Banana hat.