[HAMR] Current thoughts on the record attempt?

[jochta]

The weather so far this autumn/winter has been relatively benign. Yes it has been windy some days (in a windy year overall) but not atypical for a British autumn/winter at all. Rainfall over the area covered by Steve has been well within average amounts, and quite dry in the east. Temperatures have been several degrees above average, in fact this is the most remarkable statistic, today it reached 15C, that's way above the seasonal norm. I've only recorded 3 air frosts at my weather station in south Oxfordshire, all of them in late November. The night time minima have been remarkable too, 12.7C last night, that's insane for mid-December. The lowest daily maximum temperature so far has been 5.9C.

Couldn't really ask for much more that that, so I don't think weather can be blamed, it couldn't really have been much better!!

[toontra]

It's possible to see what the A1 looked like in August 1939, this film's overcranked, there are longer versions available, at the correct speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D0tR9mAV8A

Wonderful.  I especially liked the guy with the handcart stopping at the red lights on Oxford Street!

[jochta]

Tommy could cruise up and down the A1, if he wanted, and lorries travelled at a suitable drafting pace back then. Quite apart from having dedicated support for his highest mileage months.

It's possible to see what the A1 looked like in August 1939, this film's overcranked, there are longer versions available, at the correct speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D0tR9mAV8A

I love the way the cameraman's car is just randomly parked in most scenes with vehicles swerving around it. Some pretty bad driving in a few of those scenes too.

[TheRedEyeJedi]

I am astonished and in awe of the miles Steve has done with his current approach over the space of the last year, but also convinced Kurt has the best approach - the results of each method are there for everyone to see.   There is no logistical or financial reason why Steve could not follow Kurts approach from the last couple of months.

What, apart from
the lack of an RV and a 365x24 support team?

(sorry about that - but the font-size seems proportionate to the number of posters ignoring this simple fact

Why exactly do you need an RV or a 365 support team to do this?...
https://www.strava.com/activities/450897955


The way you talk you would think Kurt has got Dave Brailsford dong his laundry and Shane Sutton feeding him flapjacks.   One vehicle + one driver are not exactly impossible things to find ....and they would not do a jot of good if Steve was still on his Sojourn, with a laptop onboard doing 200 mile loops into headwinds and up hills.    A massive change of approach would still be required and it seems to me it is the lack of intent to change that is the problem rather than any logistics.   

You just need a good base near the loop of your choosing, preferably sheltered from the wind , with plenty of local riders to help out - then assistance at home before and after the ride...those things are readily available if the offers that have been made are to be believed.   Im sure many would have taken a weeks holiday in exchange to play a part in the record being broken?

How much would it really cost to hire a support vehicle and employ various drivers for the year - we are told there is enough funding for an overseas base if needed/wanted ... It would seem the money is there.   I am pretty sure if more money had of been asked for it would have been given?   Even if that approach was taken for a quarter of the year it could have had a huge impact.

 

[Polar Bear]

TheRedEyeJedi,

Not having intimate knowledge of Steve's finances, I don't think we can comment fairly either way.   Would you like to contribute to pay for a full time driver and an RV to support Steve on his way?

I don't see why you need to be so aggressive in your assertions. 

Steve and Kurt have different approaches, neither is right nor wrong, just different.   

[Polar Bear]

It pains me to say this but I predict that there is going to be some obscene gloating and disrespectful willy waving from some quarters when Kurt crosses the line.   Not the done thing chaps.   This is not the Ryder Cup y'know. 

Kurt of course will remain a gentleman and will have earned the right to celebrate his achievement when it comes.

[TheRedEyeJedi]

TheRedEyeJedi,

Not having intimate knowledge of Steve's finances, I don't think we can comment fairly either way.   Would you like to contribute to pay for a full time driver and an RV to support Steve on his way?

I don't see why you need to be so aggressive in your assertions. 

Steve and Kurt have different approaches, neither is right nor wrong, just different.   

Im not sure why you think I was being aggressive - I wasnt the one enlarging my text!!!   Nothing I have said was supposed to sound aggressive so apologies if it did.

I find Steves approach more captivating than Kurts.  However, I think we can clearly see that if you want to break the record then Kurts approach is exactly right.  He is going to beat the record with comfort as long as something terrible doesnt happen....Im not quite sure how much more "right" an attempt could be?  There are quite clearly rights and wrongs involved in a record attempt and Kurt has learnt and adapted as he has gone on.  If the record could be broken easily with any old approach then I dont think it would have stood for this long.   

Steves approach so far has not worked for any length of time - and when he has tried harder he has become ill.   I find this assumption that Kurt has had advantages or logistical advances that are beyond Steve to be a little strange.   Steve has this record in him - we can all see this - he is just making it too hard for himself in my opinion.  I respect that, but the record is set in stone and respect doesnt play a part in breaking it.  Godwin didnt have it as hard as Steve is making it for himself.

Kurt has one vehicle and one assistant - and at the moment he isnt really using them much.

[mattc]

Kurt has one vehicle and one assistant - and at the moment he isnt really using them much.

"much" ? Are we following the same Kurt?   

You admit you have no idea the cost of an RV+driver; and no idea of Steve's budget. I'd say that without these 2 basic facts you are firmly in the Kibitzer camp.(don't worry- it is a camp with many residents,  many sharing your views and knowldege of riding 70,000 miles a year!)

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Budget isn't a massive problem for Steve. He doesn't have to cut corners on that account. FB has said as much previously.

[TheRedEyeJedi]

Kurt has one vehicle and one assistant - and at the moment he isnt really using them much.

"much" ? Are we following the same Kurt?   

You admit you have no idea the cost of an RV+driver; and no idea of Steve's budget. I'd say that without these 2 basic facts you are firmly in the Kibitzer camp.(don't worry- it is a camp with many residents,  many sharing your views and knowldege of riding 70,000 miles a year!)

My knowledge of riding that distance is the same as yours ...we look to the approach Godwin and Kurt as the only two people who have done it.  However, if we only allow people who have covered these distances to give a point of view on here then these threads will be pretty short!

I have no idea why you are fixated on the idea of the RV....Kurt is doing more miles now that he ISNT using motor transfers.   The RV is currently a taxi to take him to and from the loop start line and to keep food and kit in along the side of his loops.. Im sure Steve could follow that approach if he wanted.

I can completely see the psychological benefit Alicia gives Kurt (but I dont think Steve is lacking mental fortitude or determination), plus her management of the technology and social media minimizes faff ... These were things that were willingly provided for Steve by hosts and home helps at the start...I have no idea if he has offers to help him with those things if he went toward doing a local loop ride like Kurt but my guess is there would be no shortage of offers?   

My opinions on his budget are only what is being disclosed on here by people in the know...ie that there is enough money for carbon bikes, a base abroad and additional help and logistics.   From  my knowledge of crowd funding and the interest generated in the attempt I am pretty sure if Steve said he needed to raise a certain mount to pay for key logistics he would have raised that money.

Im not sure why we need a special name for people that have a different viewpoint from yours?   The debate and musings over the best way to beat this record should be one of the fun things about it...I dont understand the boo hooing of people who think things could be done differently?

[jamesld8]

Kurt has learned as he has gone along, fixed / upgraded his equipment, fine-tuned his approach and adapted to changes in circumstances.

whereas...

As I said a few pages back, Steve's options are much more limited that Kurt's because his average speed is about 4mph slower. That's 48 miles over a 12 hour day.

and IIRC many months ago LWAB also pointed out that Steve needed lift his average speed to get the record; just saw on FB that Kurt did shade over 400km at 20 mph ---that`s way above what Steve is managing currently, or at any point during record attempt.

There appears to have been no strategy change since LWAB`s observation months ago despite very many offers / ideas to assist.

[toontra]

If Steve's current plan was working there wouldn't be any questioning.  It appears not to be working, so it would be pretty amazing if there weren't any questions being asked or suggestions put forward, particularly as his effort is being partly crowd-funded by folks here.  No need for any unpleasantness from either side.

[Arry-R]

If Steve's current plan was working there wouldn't be any questioning.  It appears not to be working, so it would be pretty amazing if there weren't any questions being asked or suggestions put forward, particularly as his effort is being partly crowd-funded by folks here.  No need for any unpleasantness from either side.

PLUS ONE

[Arry-R]

TheRedEyeJedi,

Not having intimate knowledge of Steve's finances, I don't think we can comment fairly either way.   Would you like to contribute to pay for a full time driver and an RV to support Steve on his way?

I don't see why you need to be so aggressive in your assertions. 

Steve and Kurt have different approaches, neither is right nor wrong, just different.   

Steves approach so far has not worked for any length of time - and when he has tried harder he has become ill.   I find this assumption that Kurt has had advantages or logistical advances that are beyond Steve to be a little strange.   Steve has this record in him - we can all see this - he is just making it too hard for himself in my opinion.  I respect that, but the record is set in stone and respect doesnt play a part in breaking it.  Godwin didnt have it as hard as Steve is making it for himself.

Kurt has one vehicle and one assistant - and at the moment he isnt really using them much.

PLUS ONE

[Karla]

How much would it really cost to hire a support vehicle and employ various drivers for the year - we are told there is enough funding for an overseas base if needed/wanted ... It would seem the money is there.   I am pretty sure if more money had of been asked for it would have been given?   Even if that approach was taken for a quarter of the year it could have had a huge impact.

I donated some money at the start and would have donated some more later in the year when I got a new job, but by then it was a few months into the year, my hosting offer to Steve had gone unacknowledged and we weren't getting any updates.  I wanted to support a year record attempt, not an open-ended mega tour, so I decided not to donate any more.  I'd love to see Steve take the record and I'd happily support him in any way I could if he said he needed it and success looked realistic, either with a continuation of this attempt or with a new attempt. 

One thing to remember about Kurt vs Steve at the present time is that Kurt openly admits that his body is falling apart, but he's weeks from the end of the record so he's able to lift it for the final sprint.  Steve's body has had just as much wear and tear but he still has another 6+ months to go, which can't be a nice position to be in.  I don't know what Steve's financial status is wrt his job, donations in the pot, taking a break and starting a new attempt after several months' rest, but from a performance point of view that may be his best option.  I'd happily start donating again for that, but would hope that he'd find a team who would let us know what was going on, and would get some bikes that weren't 30lb lumps of Godwin-era steel!

[Martin]

Agree ppb, this was supposed to be a One year time trial. 5 months almost was wasted because of the moped but the challenge continued. In that respect Kurt is at a disadvantage his ex wife wants him back in the office on 11th January I imagine

[Exit Stage Left]

Tommy could cruise up and down the A1, if he wanted, and lorries travelled at a suitable drafting pace back then. Quite apart from having dedicated support for his highest mileage months.

It's possible to see what the A1 looked like in August 1939, this film's overcranked, there are longer versions available, at the correct speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D0tR9mAV8A

I love the way the cameraman's car is just randomly parked in most scenes with vehicles swerving around it. Some pretty bad driving in a few of those scenes too.

Godwins' peak mileage was done on roads like that, as a series of 50 mile team time trials, for 16 hours a day throughout the summer.

[Arry-R]

Tommy could cruise up and down the A1, if he wanted, and lorries travelled at a suitable drafting pace back then. Quite apart from having dedicated support for his highest mileage months.

It's possible to see what the A1 looked like in August 1939, this film's overcranked, there are longer versions available, at the correct speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D0tR9mAV8A

Many thanks for bringing that film to our attention.  I know lorries were slow and restricted to 20mph in 1939 so tommy could easily have tucked in with ease. Think it was in the 50,s when that went up to 30 mph and we really thought we was moving. Later in the 60s it went up to 40 mph so Tommy wouldn't have kept up then +

[contango]

I'm beginning to think that the record needs to be split a bit like the hour record did a few years ago....
One based on a pure Godwin effort like Steve is doing and a Kurt record which is assisted, car transfers etc. Comparing Steve and Kurt is comparing apples and pears, it's not like for like.

The trouble with doing that is that you'd end up with so many different variations of the record that any entrant could be all but guaranteed to become a record holder by registering a slight variation on the theme. What happens if someone decides to ride 28,000 laps of a 3-mile circuit in a year, would that be a different record?

How closely do you think the two riders should match in their efforts? In the US you can ride for 100 miles without stopping at all; in the UK that sort of thing isn't going to happen. In the US you get far greater temperature variations than in the UK. Ultimately both men have taken on a huge challenge and achieved something that frankly boggles my mind. Even if there were only one record (and from what people say it sounds like there are multiple records based on age), there's no shame for either man if they come second.

[Auntie Helen]

Wrt cost, I think it's in the Süddeutsche Zeitung article that Kurt says this record is costing him about a dollar a mile.

[Citizenfish]

Tommy could cruise up and down the A1, if he wanted, and lorries travelled at a suitable drafting pace back then. Quite apart from having dedicated support for his highest mileage months.

It's possible to see what the A1 looked like in August 1939, this film's overcranked, there are longer versions available, at the correct speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D0tR9mAV8A

I love the way the cameraman's car is just randomly parked in most scenes with vehicles swerving around it. Some pretty bad driving in a few of those scenes too.

Godwins' peak mileage was done on roads like that, as a series of 50 mile team time trials, for 16 hours a day throughout the summer.

I wish people would stop quoting this "unfact". Godwin did not ride with a team. Teams as we know them did not exist in the UK in the 1930-40's as all racing was based around individual time trials and tracks. Godwin ride mainly solo, paced by Charlie Davey who egged him on from a car. Bennett had Rene Menzies and a motorbike. He rode his huge days in reaction to Bennett at the beck of Davey and Raleigh.

[TheRedEyeJedi]

I'm beginning to think that the record needs to be split a bit like the hour record did a few years ago....
One based on a pure Godwin effort like Steve is doing and a Kurt record which is assisted, car transfers etc. Comparing Steve and Kurt is comparing apples and pears, it's not like for like.

The trouble with doing that is that you'd end up with so many different variations of the record that any entrant could be all but guaranteed to become a record holder by registering a slight variation on the theme. What happens if someone decides to ride 28,000 laps of a 3-mile circuit in a year, would that be a different record?

How closely do you think the two riders should match in their efforts? In the US you can ride for 100 miles without stopping at all; in the UK that sort of thing isn't going to happen. In the US you get far greater temperature variations than in the UK. Ultimately both men have taken on a huge challenge and achieved something that frankly boggles my mind. Even if there were only one record (and from what people say it sounds like there are multiple records based on age), there's no shame for either man if they come second.

Not if you ride a 100 mile + route ....but if you pick a short loop with no junctions or traffic lights it is very possible to ride for 100 miles in England without stopping.   I am not sure why Kurts current strategy is being ignored so much.   He is not making use of a massive country or his RV ...he is riding fast, short loops around a base with a group of familiar and fast riders shielding him.   This is his best period of the whole challenge and he seems to be holding up both mentally and physically better than when he was out by himself with the RV and Alicia.

Steve cant do that for a year for his own sanity...but its got to be worth a go to pull him through this patch.   I seem to remember Kurt being at his wits end before he got into this routine of fast, supported miles

[Von Broad]

Tommy could cruise up and down the A1, if he wanted, and lorries travelled at a suitable drafting pace back then.

Are there reports of him drafting lorries up and down the A1 for any length of time? I've not read the book, but if that is the case, then his achievement is all the more astounding to me, because emissions and air quality behind a wagon in 1939 must have been horrible.

[Citizenfish]

Tommy could cruise up and down the A1, if he wanted, and lorries travelled at a suitable drafting pace back then.

Are there reports of him drafting lorries up and down the A1 for any length of time? I've not read the book, but if that is the case, then his achievement is all the more astounding to me, because emissions and air quality behind a wagon in 1939 must have been horrible.

The only mention of it is a fleeting piece in the cycling press where he rode roads "often frequented by lorries". It's not clear if he did this for drafting purposes or if it happened by coincidence.

[Ningishzidda]

A 'big' truck in 1939 was a Leyland Buffalo.

Even bigger was a Scammell Pioneer.