Author Topic: [HAMR] Current thoughts on the record attempt?  (Read 252731 times)

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1025 on: 26 December, 2015, 11:32:56 am »
What is the best flatwood park equivalent anywhere in the UK? 11km loop, among trees, very good traffic free surface and 4m climb per lap.

Richmond Park?

You're not going to get everything but a good starting point would be to look at time trial courses.
For example, these are all 10-15 mile circuits which are ok from a traffic point of view most of the time:
the A31 near Farnham which is decently quick, mostly dual carriageway and with moderate traffic. 
The A4, between maidenhead and reading
The A4 between reading and thatcham
The Fifield circuit - c.10 miles on reasonably flat, quiet back roads near Windsor

There are plenty of others; I'm most familiar with the London West district courses, but there are more nearer to Steve.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1026 on: 26 December, 2015, 11:54:12 am »
Too hilly



And far too busy plus 20mph max I believe

marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1027 on: 26 December, 2015, 12:13:05 pm »
What is the best flatwood park equivalent anywhere in the UK? 11km loop, among trees, very good traffic free surface and 4m climb per lap.

Richmond Park?

He can draft cycle_dr1 from April onwards.

Always a bed here if needed. 6 minutes cycle to the star and garter gate.

It is too busy during the day, but once the gates are locked, you can make some fast loops as long as you miss out the Robin Hood gate to/from Kingston gate section as that has a tough little climb in either direction.
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1028 on: 26 December, 2015, 01:44:44 pm »
What about the mersey 24 hr circuits?  are they too hilly?   I would have thought there would be lots of people who would be willing to spend one day a week or fortnight or month doing circuits up there either in echelon or whatever to give Steve protection.  To double your energy expenditure because you are u willing to ride in a group seems crazy.


We have seen a lot of posts that only Steve knows how to ride this challenge.

I think this conflates two operate things.

Only Steve and Kurt know what it feels like mentally and physically to do the riding on this scale.

Steve and Kurt are not the only people who noe how a year challenge should be ridden.  Chris Froome knows what it feels like to ride the TdF but he doesn't really know "how" to ride the TdF and it is quite clear that Brailsford, et al are the people who control the day to day and strategic stuff.

I had assumed that the team around Steve were running the show with input from Steve, very much as we have seen Alicia telling kurt where to ride, etc.

LMT

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1029 on: 26 December, 2015, 02:07:25 pm »
What about the mersey 24 hr circuits?  are they too hilly?   I would have thought there would be lots of people who would be willing to spend one day a week or fortnight or month doing circuits up there either in echelon or whatever to give Steve protection.  To double your energy expenditure because you are u willing to ride in a group seems crazy.


We have seen a lot of posts that only Steve knows how to ride this challenge.

I think this conflates two operate things.

Only Steve and Kurt know what it feels like mentally and physically to do the riding on this scale.

Steve and Kurt are not the only people who noe how a year challenge should be ridden.  Chris Froome knows what it feels like to ride the TdF but he doesn't really know "how" to ride the TdF and it is quite clear that Brailsford, et al are the people who control the day to day and strategic stuff.

I had assumed that the team around Steve were running the show with input from Steve, very much as we have seen Alicia telling kurt where to ride, etc.

That's a good point, I recall reading about the team behind Jure Robic - RAAM legend who unfortunately has passed away after a RTC.

What stunned me was that the Jure had very little input regarding the strategic elements of how to go about completing a bike race. His job was to ride the bike - end of. Strategy, nutrition, mechanicals, all the other stuff would fall to other members of his team. The only thing he would need to worry about would be riding his bike. He'd be monitored and if he started to fall behind pace his team would make him stop and make the neccessary adjustments.

I don't think the team has had much input from what I've seen, what I have seen is pretty much ''Steve knows best.'' and that is pretty much that.
But sometimes this is counter productive, the day before he had his RTC where he done 60 miles into a head wind taking 7 hours is one such example.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1030 on: 26 December, 2015, 02:53:03 pm »
Jure Robič was a serving older in the Slovenian army, it was his job to project the image of his country, and its armed forces, as tough and resilient. It worked, he was one of the most famous Slovenes.

Steve has represented Audax in a similar way. But Audax is lots of different things. It can be a training ground for Jure Robič wannabes, and that's probably the eaisest image to sell. To others it's a community which doesn't value any individual achievement above any other. The supportive power of the collective enables members to reach inside themselves for the exceptional.

As an athletic contest the result is pretty clear, unforeseens aside. On the other side of the coin it's the support that's been given to Steve that's important, and that continuing to support Steve in the face of not achieving the record is more virtuous than if he'd beaten the record. The problem with that view is that it doesn't have an end point. It can accommodate any number of 'restarts'. But each restart will bring in less support, which enhances the virtue of those still contributing I suppose.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1031 on: 26 December, 2015, 03:06:04 pm »
Quote
But sometimes this is counter productive, the day before he had his RTC where he done 60 miles into a head wind taking 7 hours is one such example.

the whole ride that day was into the wind, 212 miles, starting at 6am and ending around 3am at under 13mph

hillbilly

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1032 on: 26 December, 2015, 03:16:20 pm »
Some airfields have perimeter roads.  These tend to be flat as airfields tend to be built on plains. Those might offer Steve a traffic free loop of reasonable length, if a suitable one can be found and the airfield owner consents.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1033 on: 26 December, 2015, 03:30:35 pm »
...
I don't think the team has had much input from what I've seen, what I have seen is pretty much ''Steve knows best.'' and that is pretty much that.
...

Really?   The basis of your arguments, your pontificating, your armchair expertise comes down to the fact that because you don't see it then it simply doesn't happen?   

Thought-provoking insight.   

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1034 on: 26 December, 2015, 03:37:45 pm »
Have you read Fidgetbuzz's contributions?
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1035 on: 26 December, 2015, 03:43:12 pm »
^^^^^^^ the mersey roads circuits would be another good example, that Steve is very familiar with.

Another advantage with using time trialling courses is that virtually all ride faster with a bit of wind from the right direction than with no wind at all. The right direction varies by course. For example, I know that the A31 course I mentioned earlier is fastest with a moderate north or east wind, but slow with a screaming south-westerly. 

Other courses are different, so one can be picked to suit the day. All this information is known to the time trialling community.

^^^good thought, but airfields are often windy!

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1036 on: 26 December, 2015, 03:45:19 pm »
Quote
But sometimes this is counter productive, the day before he had his RTC where he done 60 miles into a head wind taking 7 hours is one such example.

the whole ride that day was into the wind, 212 miles, starting at 6am and ending around 3am at under 13mph

In strategic terms it was Charge of the Light Brigade stuff

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1037 on: 26 December, 2015, 03:51:29 pm »
Some airfields have perimeter roads.  These tend to be flat as airfields tend to be built on plains. Those might offer Steve a traffic free loop of reasonable length, if a suitable one can be found and the airfield owner consents.
Good call.
The Science Museum owns Wroughton Airfield, just to the south of Swindon.
It has a perimeter road a little proud of 3 miles.
It isn't pancake flat, but it isn't far off it.
Nothing much (other than Swindon Model Aircraft Club) takes off or lands there these days - the runways aren't in particularly good condition, and there are few other facilities which would allow take-off and landing.
I can't help but wonder whether given the right 'scientific angle / record-breaking' approach, that their PR machine would welcome having a such a long-standing record broken on their site......

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1038 on: 26 December, 2015, 04:02:11 pm »
Have you read Fidgetbuzz's contributions?

I have.  He makes some very good and well thought through points - he's not just bouncing up and down on the sofa screaming at the computer.   He even suggests that the team should consider stuff posted here and sift out the good stuff, note the good stuff, not all the chaff in here, then run it past Steve.   Exactly the way to manage the challenge.   There is no reason to think that the team are not doing that anyway even though we don't know this.   

I have managed multi-million pound projects running over a number of years.   You start with a plan, you keep fully abreast of the risks and issues, then you keep a close eye on these as the project progresses.   As new risks and issues appear you take them on board and continue to plan and manage.   Just because we cannot see Steve and his team doing this doesn't mean that it is not happening.   In fact, clearly it is as they decided to go for the dietary change and they clearly, form the facebook post, worked out the risks and issues with that.   

I don't see how they can sate the appetites of all and sundry without a full time PR role.   Perhaps that is a thought to be put to the team and to Steve? 

LMT

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1039 on: 26 December, 2015, 04:16:48 pm »
Have you read Fidgetbuzz's contributions?

I have.  He makes some very good and well thought through points - he's not just bouncing up and down on the sofa screaming at the computer.   He even suggests that the team should consider stuff posted here and sift out the good stuff, note the good stuff, not all the chaff in here, then run it past Steve.   Exactly the way to manage the challenge.   There is no reason to think that the team are not doing that anyway even though we don't know this.   

I have managed multi-million pound projects running over a number of years.   You start with a plan, you keep fully abreast of the risks and issues, then you keep a close eye on these as the project progresses.   As new risks and issues appear you take them on board and continue to plan and manage.   Just because we cannot see Steve and his team doing this doesn't mean that it is not happening.   In fact, clearly it is as they decided to go for the dietary change and they clearly, form the facebook post, worked out the risks and issues with that.   

I don't see how they can sate the appetites of all and sundry without a full time PR role.   Perhaps that is a thought to be put to the team and to Steve?

Oh dear...I'll remember the above if this attempt should fail.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1040 on: 26 December, 2015, 04:29:08 pm »
Oh dear.   How sad.

Why would I expect anything less from you?   

LMT

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1041 on: 26 December, 2015, 04:34:40 pm »
Apologies I forget, you've managed multi-million pound projects and I'm just someone who jumps up and down on the sofa screaming at the computer. ::-)


LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1042 on: 26 December, 2015, 04:52:55 pm »
Look at Steve's website. It has 2 PR people listed. How is Steve's PR going?
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1043 on: 26 December, 2015, 04:57:11 pm »
Apologies I forget, you've managed multi-million pound projects and I'm just someone who jumps up and down on the sofa screaming at the computer. ::-)

What a truly bizarre set of posts.   

Look at Steve's website. It has 2 PR people listed. How is Steve's PR going?

Indeed but how much time do they have to do PR and what is the current PR policy?   Clearly people want more information but that takes time and effort.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1044 on: 26 December, 2015, 05:25:25 pm »
The first attempt was pretty much at a critical point when he got knocked off. He was up on his schedule but behind the daily average required to match Tommy. Steve's plan called for further increasing his daily distance but Steve couldn't ride any more hours in the day and his average speed was well below what he had expected to do since the beginning of the year.

Even after breaking an ankle, Steve was confident that he could recover the deficit. Time has shown that he'll fall well over 10,000 miles short on the first attempt. Continuing on with the first attempt simply ground Steve into the dirt and it compromised the second attempt.

His second attempt has been characterised by fairly low average speeds (except in ideal conditions) and a lack of consistency. I believe this is a result of what occurred between the crash and the restart, combined with unfocused team strategy and tactics through most of the year. Steve has gone beyond the point where he can match Tommy, let alone Kurt. The numbers required simply don't add up.

Steve is immensely determined but he doesn't always know best. It appears that the remaining team members may have the same problem.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1045 on: 26 December, 2015, 05:36:03 pm »
It's Christmas and I'm sure Steve asked Satan Santa for some people carrying axes to grind them. He's certainly got them, even if he didn't ask. Well done LMT and LWAB you embody the Spirit of Christmas!  :thumbsup:
It is simpler than it looks.

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1046 on: 26 December, 2015, 05:39:02 pm »
Some airfields have perimeter roads.  These tend to be flat as airfields tend to be built on plains. Those might offer Steve a traffic free loop of reasonable length, if a suitable one can be found and the airfield owner consents.
Good call.
The Science Museum owns Wroughton Airfield, just to the south of Swindon.
It has a perimeter road a little proud of 3 miles.
It isn't pancake flat, but it isn't far off it.
Nothing much (other than Swindon Model Aircraft Club) takes off or lands there these days - the runways aren't in particularly good condition, and there are few other facilities which would allow take-off and landing.
I can't help but wonder whether given the right 'scientific angle / record-breaking' approach, that their PR machine would welcome having a such a long-standing record broken on their site......

Castle Combe circuit (near Chippenham, Wilts) isn't heavily used for motorised stuffs, IIRC, as the locals have put in restrictions on noise.  Local, and not so local, cycling clubs can and do use it for not very much money.
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1047 on: 26 December, 2015, 05:49:39 pm »
Using an airfield perimeter road or a flat racing circuit is an excellent suggestion but the location would ideally have fast roads to get to it. That would rule out things like Richmond Park. Steve would only be likely to use such a circuit once a week or so and fast riders would mostly be prepared to ride with him on weekends only.

Jaded, run Steve's numbers yourself and see what conclusion you come to. Grinding Steve further into the dirt won't achieve his aim of taking Tommy's record. Happy Boxing Day!

For the slow of thinking, only HK and I have crewed for Steve at 24hr TTs, we were amongst the first to sponsor Steve, we were the first to host him and I offered to crew for him full-time between Christmas and New Year. We continue to wish him all the best in achieving his aims and would be happy to help him get there. What he and his team is doing now will not let him do that.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1048 on: 26 December, 2015, 05:52:11 pm »
Using an airfield perimeter road or a flat racing circuit is an excellent suggestion but the location would ideally have fast roads to get to it. That would rule out things like Richmond Park. Steve would only be likely to use such a circuit once a week or so and fast riders would mostly be prepared to ride with him on weekends only.

Jaded, run Steve's numbers yourself and see what conclusion you come to. Further grinding Steve into the dirt won't achieve his aim of taking Tommy's record. Happy Boxing Day!
RAF Wroughton dangles from one of the tributaries of the A4.
FWIW Accommodation in the immediate area is (at best) pants IME (I spent months working at RAF Wroughton).

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1049 on: 26 December, 2015, 05:53:24 pm »
Silverstone perhaps.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)