OS OpenData

[dasmoth]

The OS data release announced last year seems to have happened today:

       http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8597779.stm

...but right now I can't actually connect to the OS website ("slashdotted" by inbound links from major news sites?).  Anyone got some information about what's now availabe?  Is it, for example, possible to download a set of Landranger tiles for a non-tiny area?

[tonycollinet]

I also cannot get in. Suspect servers overloaded, especially if they are already offering direct downloads.


So how long before someone gears up for multi scale routeable conversions to Garmin? 

[dasmoth]

I did manage to get in after a few attempts.  The products available are (don't recognize all of these, and the website is very slow, most images failing to load, etc., so can't really find out more):

• MiniScale (raster)
• 1:250000 scale colour raster
• OS Street View (raster)
• Boundary-Line (vector)
• Code-Point Open (think this might effectively be the postcode database)
• 1:50000 scale gazeteer (just POIs, I think -- not the maps)
• Strategi (vector, not sure what this is)
• OS Locator
• Land-Form Panorama (3d vector data)

So probably not the stuff that's of most immediate interest to cyclists/walkers/etc., but still good to see.  If the Panorama data is what I think it is, I can imagine some interesting applications -- but I think I'll wait for the traffic-load to decrease a bit (or the OS to get some extra servers!)

Edit: sorry, missed "Meridian 2".  Another vector product, rather bigger download than Strategi.  Again, not sure exactly what this one does.

[David Martin]

Most of this is mirrored at mySociety cache of OS OpenData for faster download (ie not slashdotted.)

..d

[David Martin]

The 250k tifs are 4kx4k tiles at 10pix/mm (254ppi), ie 40cm tiles for a 100km square.
I can see some new wallpaper for the study coming on as a full(ish) UK map. I have access to a large format poster printer so should be able to get 300km wide swathes printed - even better if I go to 1:500k.

[David Martin]

Anyone know what the file formats are for the meridian and strategi data?

..d

[dasmoth]

Thanks for the link David.

Strategi files appear to be this:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapefile

I assume the Meridian stuff is the same, but haven't actually checked yet.

Generally-helpful page:

       http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIS_file_formats

[Chris S]

* sits back and waits for someone smarter than him to work out what to do with this stuff *

Does this mean I could have an OS grade map on my Garmin Vista?

[dasmoth]

Does this mean I could have an OS grade map on my Garmin Vista?

Define "OS grade".

I suspect some of these vector formats will be converted quite quickly into Garmin format (I wouldn't be totally shocked if the tools already exist, although I don't know much about Garmin's formats so can't say one way or another).  However, this won't look fundamentally different from, for example, OpenStreetMap data -- it'll just be using OS data (which you might want to do anyway).

In terms of having Landranger/Pathfinder-like maps (which I'm assuming is what most folks think of when they say "OS map"):

• Those are raster maps (not supported by the eTrex range, but are on Oregon and -- I think -- Dakota series)
• Neither of them are included in the current data release 

Nevertheless, I'm sure there will be plenty of interesting spin-offs from this for all GPS-users.

[David Martin]

So is the license compatible with OSM? http://parlvid.mysociety.org:81/os/licence.pdf
If so, I can't see it being long before all the 1:10k data is uploaded to OSM.

..d

[andygates]

I believe the OSM boffins will be inspecting it as we speak.  I'm definitely excited for it - and if not as an import, then as a background layer against which to trace and get feature names. 

(There's still stuff like POI turn restrictions that is not shown on an OS map, that benefits from a ground survey)

By the way, there already exists a tool for converting Polish format shapefiles to Garmin IMG - it was part of the OSM-to-Garmin toolchain once upon a time, and tools for converting SHP to Polish.  So a tower of toys could be set up once folks eyeball the data.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Ooh, do I count as an OSM boffin?  

We definitely want to get StreetView (the 1:10,000 A-Z-like streetmap with building outlines) in as a background layer you can trace over. Grant (sysadmin) is busy downloading the raw TIFFs to our dev server as I speak; then we'll need to process it into tiles. We actually have most of the scripts to do this anyway because it's basically the same as reprojecting the old OS maps (NPE et al). I'm hoping it'll be in Potlatch in the next few days.

An import of Meridian2 is much more problematic. We certainly don't want to do a bulk import as per TIGER (US) or AND (Netherlands). Those were on fairly blank canvases. But importing a complete (low-res) dataset of the UK over the top of a significant, though incomplete high-res dataset of the UK will cause huge problems.

What I would like to do is provide a way for people to bring in the data manually, making sure to get the connections right, adding their own local knowledge, and refining the data from other sources. (Typical OSM ways, traced from GPS, are much more accurate than Meridian2.) This could be done by offering .osm files for people to download and use in JOSM, or using Potlatch 2's new vector background layer feature.

There's also the question of whether Meridian2 is worth using at all, or whether VectorMap District - expected at the start of May - will be better (e.g. more precise geometries). As yet there are very few details about VMD.

The OSM talk-gb list has had some discussion and we've been talking about it a lot on IRC (#osm on irc.oftc.net).

Incidentally, for anyone who wants to hack on the Meridian2 data directly: Système D » Hacking Ordnance Survey Meridian2 for beginners

Richard (Potlatch hacker and OSM old fart)

[andygates]

We definitely want to get StreetView (the 1:10,000 A-Z-like streetmap with building outlines) in as a background layer you can trace over. Grant (sysadmin) is busy downloading the raw TIFFs to our dev server as I speak; then we'll need to process it into tiles. We actually have most of the scripts to do this anyway because it's basically the same as reprojecting the old OS maps (NPE et al). I'm hoping it'll be in Potlatch in the next few days.

That would rock.

What I would like to do is provide a way for people to bring in the data manually, making sure to get the connections right, adding their own local knowledge, and refining the data from other sources. (Typical OSM ways, traced from GPS, are much more accurate than Meridian2.) This could be done by offering .osm files for people to download and use in JOSM, or using Potlatch 2's new vector background layer feature.

So I could go to Dunny On The Wold, see that it's just a dot and two main roads, and then as a mapper go get the Ordnance Survey data for that region (rather like getting the OSM data) and link and tag it sensibly, choosing to ignore its idea of a wiggly path because I know my GPSd version takes a new route from last weekend?

Again with the Wild Stalyns riff.

[David Martin]

Richard, that absolutely rocks. As soon as Potlach has OS data in I can hang up my bike and sit at the keyboard tracing maps till my belly won't let me reach that far.

Virtually everything not on a main road that isn't in the Dundee Yahoo maps within 20 miles of Dundee I have done by bike. A lot of calories. This means I can fill in some of the nagging gaps and add detail that the OS do not have. Without having a minimum 2.5 hour bike ride and can concentrate on the fun parts.

Most of Perthshire and Angus are blank canvasses, even for A roads. There is a strong case for some controlled regional import directly from Meridian as lo-res is better than no-res.

[andrew_s]

I did manage to get in after a few attempts.  The products available are

• MiniScale (raster)
• 1:250000 scale colour raster
• OS Street View (raster)
• Boundary-Line (vector)
• Code-Point Open (think this might effectively be the postcode database)
• 1:50000 scale gazeteer (just POIs, I think -- not the maps)
• Strategi (vector, not sure what this is)
• OS Locator
• Land-Form Panorama (3d vector data)

1:250,000 is the standard road maps that are what you get when you zoom out on MemoryMap. What used to be good cycling-scale maps before the OS stopped printing them.
The ones at work are 100kmx100km, 4000x4000 pix tiles (iirc), as tiff.

StreetView is the most interesting. It's a simplified version of the OS 1:10,000 raster mapping. Streets, (named, at a standard rather than actual width), simplified building outlines, areas of woodlands, watercourses etc. It should come as 5kmx5km tiles, aligned to the OS national grid.
It's machine generated from the detailed MasterMap database (<1m accuracy), so road centrelines, watercourses etc will be accurate (possible easter eggs excepted). Buildings will be approximately correct, but you couldn't trust the detailed shape of a building (eg will be a simple rectangle, whilst detailed mapping would show the bay windows).

Boundary Line is county/parish/ed/ward/ua/constituency etc boundaries

CodePoint is just be an OS grid ref for each postcode.

1:50,000 gazetteer will be text and grid reference for each significant text item that appears on an OS 1:50,000 map. (including eg "Lower Southfield, Bosbury" or "Woofields farm, Coddington", but not stuff like "Hall", "Moat"). The ones we have aren't precise, just giving the correct 1km grid square.

Strategi is (I think) simplified stuff meant for large scale display - highway network, rivers, towns etc.

Locator as supplied to paying customers is POIs - doctors surgeries, categorised shops, banks, filling stations etc, It seems that they are only giving out road names/locations for free.

Landform Panorama is 10m contours. It is supplied as a DTM on a 25m (iirc) grid, but that doesn't seem to be included in the OpenData.

[piedwagtail91]

Richard, that absolutely rocks. As soon as Potlach has OS data in I can hang up my bike and sit at the keyboard tracing maps till my belly won't let me reach that far.

Virtually everything not on a main road that isn't in the Dundee Yahoo maps within 20 miles of Dundee I have done by bike. A lot of calories. This means I can fill in some of the nagging gaps and add detail that the OS do not have. Without having a minimum 2.5 hour bike ride and can concentrate on the fun parts.

Most of Perthshire and Angus are blank canvasses, even for A roads. There is a strong case for some controlled regional import directly from Meridian as lo-res is better than no-res.

ditto but my area is in lancashire around great harwood!

[andygates]

I'm gripped with an urge to import all the archaeological features.  You can get the meg-head out of the stones...

[drossall]

Am I the only one to be slightly hesitant about this?

Britain has some of the best mapping in the world. At present, it's paid for by the users (me included). I completed my set of UK 1:50000 maps at around the time they were rendered obsolete by computer mapping

I now have a set of Fugawi maps as well, but if I want to upgrade I have to pay again for what I already have. That's not quite right.

Opening things up may lead to new hybrid products that were not available before.

All the same, making OS mapping open source just means that the tax-payer in general pays for the creation of the maps, instead of the actual users paying. It's not free, just a different choice about who pays.

Next, the Government will cut the OS budget, along with everyone else's, and we will no longer have the world's best maps. (Remember, they could sell what they were doing until now, so there was demand, but the budget they get in future won't necessarily recognise that.)

This is a really odd time for the chancellor to offer, on all our behalves, to pick up the bill for the OS.

[David Martin]

I have just added the street skeleton for the nearest unmapped village. I'll flesh out the details for the various POI in due course. StreetView is not a substitute for on the ground mapping, but is very effective for locating round tuits in dragon-ridden Perthshire.

..d

[andrew_s]

Am I the only one to be slightly hesitant about this?

I wouldn't worry.
The stuff that's being released is more or less the same as is freely available via Google Maps, SRTM etc

[andygates]

At present, it's paid for by the users (me included).

Government departments and the military use it extensively - and even if the commercial services were stopped entirely, they'd carry on using it and updating it, because the Powers That Be need a map of record. 

We are the powers that be: the mapping is a common good.  Effectively you and the rest of the OS data user community have been bilked for a good few years (I think we can blame this one on Maggie). 

[andygates]

OS Streetview is now available as a background layer on Potlatch, and it rocks.

There are some things it's just very hard to map physically.  Tonight it's watercourses and private land and fixme tags.  I'm a happy (and apocalyptically nerdy) bunny. 

[saturn]

OS Streetview is now available as a background layer on Potlatch, and it rocks.

There are some things it's just very hard to map physically.  Tonight it's watercourses and private land and fixme tags.  I'm a happy (and apocalyptically nerdy) bunny.  

Where? I don't see it (actually I don't know where to look).

OK found it - question about what to do with it coming up.....

[nuttycyclist]

OS Streetview is now available as a background layer on Potlatch, and it rocks.

There are some things it's just very hard to map physically.  Tonight it's watercourses and private land and fixme tags.  I'm a happy (and apocalyptically nerdy) bunny. 

Oh boy! 

Running a bit slow (probably lots of people on because of the excitement?)

I'm gonna be busy I think.   What's the best approach?   Just focus on getting the missing roads on first and let the OSM faeries fill in the details afterwards?

[saturn]

..... so, is it ok simply to trace features into OSM?

On a recent edit I was struggling to show fords which only seemed to be displayed at certain zooms. I thought for cycling purposes this was important because some of them were slimey and didn't have bridges. So, in addition to the ford tag I added little bits of stream where they cross the road but these look a bit odd. I was going to leave the rest of the streams to someone with a canoe but if it's OK to trace the OS map I could add them myself.