Sky - gaming the system?

[toontra]

He's also using it to talk back at everyone who had a go over the DCMS report, and again, that's his prerogative, but you can't do that and complain about how you are treated and how your family have been treated. He's the one pulling it back into the public eye. Again.

Indeed.  He's wanting it all ways - firstly to claim a saintly halo for avoiding doping like the plague (never used a needle!) and damning LA, but now the facts are out the revisionism goes into top gear and LA is a flawed hero (like himself, presumably!).  He really should do the decent thing, shut the f**k up and retire from public view as gracefully as possible.  What chance!

I have similar views regarding T Blair.

[Ian H]

Anyone who imagines that professional athletes can be persuaded to behave like corinthian amateurs is doomed to eternal disappointment.

[Hot Flatus]

That is not really what we are talking about. We aren't talking about doping, we are talking about what athletes say about doping.

[Ian H]

That is not really what we are talking about. We aren't talking about doping, we are talking about what athletes say about doping.

They do that because of the gap between the governing bodies' 'rules' and actual practice.

[Hot Flatus]

Wiggins had the choice to keep quiet, to not eulogise/slate/eulogise Armstrong depending on the state of his own career and legacy, to not write in his autobiography that he had "never had an injection".

Equally, Team Sky had the choice to not declare that they are all about the details but then not be able to produce any...

[Ian H]

Wiggo mostly talks bollocks, and Sky are a cynical money-making machine.  The biggest danger from Sky is that they make cycle-racing boring. 

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

Wiggo mostly talks bollocks, and Sky are a cynical money-making machine.  The biggest danger from Sky is that they make cycle-racing boring.

Most sports suffer from periods of dominance by a team or player (not all - golf seems to be good at throwing up random victors).  Cycling has the same - Banesto, US Postal, Sky.  Although it could be argued that QuickStep have a similar level of dominance in one day races.  It allows us to indulge in that (I do feel the British invented it although am probably wrong) delightful sport of cheering on the underdog, in the faint hope of being deliriously happy if they win.

Although that does make oneself a hostage to fortune when it involves (as I will be honest in admitting) cheering on Vinokourov in his vain attempts to defeat Armstrong.

So, on that account, I'd want the opportunity to review my opinions from time to time in the light of new evidence and new perspectives.   And, given that Mr Wiggins was bound to get an avalanche of criticism for making the comments he did about Mr Armstrong, I'm actually interested to see what he has written.  Of course I may just be a sucker for a clever marketing ploy.  But this time, I'm just happy to take that risk.

[mattc]

I really dont' see the problem - he's been completely open about the Armstrong content, so if you find that unpalatable don't buy the book!

Flatus & co get to repeat every clause of their standard whinge about Wiggins whether they buy the book or not, so everyone's happy 

[Hot Flatus]

And mattc gets to be his usual tittish self 

[citoyen]

Although that does make oneself a hostage to fortune when it involves (as I will be honest in admitting) cheering on Vinokourov in his vain attempts to defeat Armstrong.

I always used to root for Ullrich to beat Armstrong.

[mzjo]

Although that does make oneself a hostage to fortune when it involves (as I will be honest in admitting) cheering on Vinokourov in his vain attempts to defeat Armstrong.

I always used to root for Ullrich to beat Armstrong.

I got so bored with Armstrong, I simply stopped following the Tour.

Wiggo appears not to have learnt from LA. Lesson 1 keep your head down; lesson 2 take the money and run; lesson 3 (from Virenque) talk about the current scene and the future, don't dwell on the past (although Virenque never earned the sort of dosh that LA and Wiggo did, which probably kept him more on the right path since he retired).

[Hot Flatus]

https://cyclingtips.com/2018/11/ex-sky-doctor-to-face-medical-tribunal-hincapie-racing-secures-future-daily-news-digest/

[toontra]

https://cyclingtips.com/2018/11/ex-sky-doctor-to-face-medical-tribunal-hincapie-racing-secures-future-daily-news-digest/

Good.  One of the most preposterous elements of the parliamentary enquiry was Freeman writing himself a doctor's note to avoid questioning.  Whether he's the fall guy or not is secondary - as a medical professional he should not have allowed himself to be put in such a compromised position - perhaps money played a part? 

Timely announcement as a counter to Wiggo's self-promotional guff.

[quixoticgeek]

This just showed up in my twitter feed:

"Sky says it is to end investment in Pro-Cycling and Team Sky at the end of 2019"

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1072750072968998913


So it looks like even Team Sky are going to lose their big sponsor.

J

[quixoticgeek]

Aunty has the news too:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/46535894

J

[Hot Flatus]

Well it has become the dirty word of cycling...

[Si S]

That doesn't surprise me, it'll be interesting to see if Tour Racing continues with a new sponsor, I have my doubts Sir Dave will be able to pull that one off and wouldn't be surprised to see Froome retire at the end of next year. 

[drgannet]

This has been on the cards for some time as a consequence of the takeover, or more to the point Murdoch leaving. Any new sponsor will have to move quickly to continue with the current roster of riders (sponsorship cost Sky £23.5M in 2017).

[MattH]

An opportunity for Oleg Tinkov to buy a new team  (especially if Froome retires)?

[Si S]

It'll make 2019 interesting.

Sky's modus operandi relies on the strength of the unit and the whole of that unit backing one rider, ok last year's TdF was a bit of an exception, but the riders will be aware that they may need to put themselves in the shop window. A number of riders who have recently negotiated loooong contracts aren't going to best pleased either, especially Ivan Sosa who has just blotted his copybook elsewhere to ride for Sky next year.

A further complication for both riders and the search for a sponsor will be the mooted changes to the number of WT teams, from 18 to 15, so riders are going to need points if they're searching for a contract. Mind you, UCI reforms have a long history of just getting kicked down the road.

There are also some complex rules about transferring points and licences between team entities, it used to be the case the licence was held by the management entity, and it was this and the contracts that gave the management entity value, I'm not sure that this still holds, but Sky was a bit unique in that the sponsor owned the management entity who owned the team.

[Hot Flatus]

^ Yes, they do, which will mean a new sponsor will have to buy 'Team Sky', I believe. As well as fund it to the tune of £30m a year. The liability for Bernal and GT with their 5 and 3 year contracts may still rest with Sky, which means these riders may find they have little choice for whom they ride.

Either way, I think the days of Team Sky, as is, are over, which has to be a good thing.

[Si S]

^ Yes, they do, which will mean a new sponsor will have to buy 'Team Sky', I believe. As well as fund it to the tune of £30m a year. The liability for Bernal and GT with their 5 and 3 year contracts may still rest with Sky, which means these riders may find they have little choice for whom they ride.

Either way, I think the days of Team Sky, as is, are over, which has to be a good thing.

My bold, I reckon I agree with both parts of that.

IIRC all the WT licences expire in 2019, none have been issued for 2020, so all any potential buyer is getting is a big bus, some rider contracts with no guarantees of races and a mahoosive bucket of acrimony, that's a tough sell.

[Hot Flatus]

One other factor is that there is no longer any guarantee for Sky's salaries next autumn....which means a new owner/sponsor needs to be found in short order.

[mattc]

Well!

unless they find one big magical new sponsor, this is certainly going to shake things up!

( Presumably there will be some younger GC riders at the other teams getting nervous about Froome/Thomas/et al coming onto the market. )

One other factor is that there is no longer any guarantee for Sky's salaries next autumn....which means a new owner/sponsor needs to be found in short order.

Do you mean nobody except GT and Bernal? [Sorry, I've made no effort to research these facts myself! ]

[mzjo]

What is the legal situation with a team offering new long contracts that it might have had reason to assume couldn't be honoured? After all they knew that Sky was changing hands and that the new corporate owners might have different ideas. The likes of GT and Bernal presumably had some interest from other teams - can their lawyers and managers now come back on Team Sky for misinformation or whatever or are team contracts written in favour of the sponsors options?