I find it interesting that all of the contenders announced to date all hail from English speaking countries. This despite the attempts being followed by non-English speaking cyclists (presumably even more niche than in the UK though).
Crikey. This is becoming almost as popular as the Hour Record.
With Teethginders continuation into 2016, the lady record challenge and now Bruce, the appendix to the year record book might have to wait.
...Whether or not he eventually goes on to break the record (and I sincerely hope he does) it's Steve Abraham who can take the credit for that.
Strange how TG's record could sit uncontested for so long, yet now it seems to be as popular as it was in the 1930s
...Whether or not he eventually goes on to break the record (and I sincerely hope he does) it's Steve Abraham who can take the credit for that.
Strange how TG's record could sit uncontested for so long, yet now it seems to be as popular as it was in the 1930s
Another ride = another bloody bike wash! 4 weeks and it'll be dry roads again ;-
I remember much if not all of his biggest month was done back in Oz. I wonder if he will be spending some time over there in (our) winter etc.
if he's coming to uk in april it would be good to ride along every now and then, especially if he spends some time in his favourite richmond park.
Sticking to Richmond Park could be a sensible strategy with Canyon's UK office being in Kingston. He might start craving a bit of variety before he reaches the target of 12,000 laps though.
Depending which way his plane flies to and from Aus, he could gain a couple of days in the style of Philias Fogg. O:-)
I realise that if its within the current UMCA HAMR rules people can do what they want, but if in the future this challenge becomes one that can only be achieved by chasing the good weather around the globe, relies on lots of on the road support and big bucks, it's one that will lose its appeal for me.I'm inclined to agree but OTOH the Sun can be chased quite adequately from the UK at the cost of only a 1 hour ferry and those in the smaller portion of the Northern American continent don't even have that impediment. I do think in the long term it'll be more and more about the Alacia until they are as important as the Kurt meaning future Steves have no hope. I think there's a few marginal gains to be had yet before it has to be a very pro endevour. I think this year proves they will be marginal though, Tommy Godwin will forever be the last to put a great gob of miles on the record.
I realise that if its within the current UMCA HAMR rules people can do what they want, but if in the future this challenge becomes one that can only be achieved by chasing the good weather around the globe, relies on lots of on the road support and big bucks, it's one that will lose its appeal for me.
if he's coming to uk in april it would be good to ride along every now and then, especially if he spends some time in his favourite richmond park.
I thought Guinness said that they would not entertain the record again (as it is too dangerous?). I thought that was what started Steve out on the route to talking with the UMCA.Kajsa Tylen, who is attempting to set a woman's record is doing it under the auspices of guiness, not UMCA.
I hope that he undertakes it under the same rules as Kurt and Steve, pointless otherwise (sort of like his Guinness monthly/weekly "records" which have clearly been bettered by Kurt and Steve).
I thought Guinness said that they would not entertain the record again (as it is too dangerous?). I thought that was what started Steve out on the route to talking with the UMCA.Kajsa Tylen, who is attempting to set a woman's record is doing it under the auspices of guiness, not UMCA.
I hope that he undertakes it under the same rules as Kurt and Steve, pointless otherwise (sort of like his Guinness monthly/weekly "records" which have clearly been bettered by Kurt and Steve).
Guinness limit you to one machine and having to start from where you finished the night before. Why would anyone attempt either the men's or women's records with these rules?Plus no drafting - which makes it hard to ride with other people at all.
Modern bikes need to be regularly maintained so that means unlike Billie and Tommy you need a second machine to ride whilst the other one is being serviced.
One bike?! :o
It would seem Bruce is going the Kurt Searvogel route for his record attempt bike.Do you mean bikeS? Kurt regularly uses a recumbent (amongst other beasts!)
An Aero bike test in the recent Tour magazine gives the Canyon Aeroad 2-3 min depending on wheels over your usual roadbike for 100km 75kg at 200w. So that is 3-5h per 10.000km?
Interesting to see his 2015 mileage is just under 30k miles :o
Indeed, I note by his Strava account he's already in Adelaide knocking out a few rides on the beach front.Interesting to see his 2015 mileage is just under 30k miles :o
I'd say that's an ideal jumping off point for the record. He's going into the record with enough fitness and experience but without being too tired as he needs to more than double that number. A tough asked but doable.
I reckon he won't be riding in Richmond Park very much - unless he wants to lose a lot of time and money getting pulled over by the parks police for breaking the 20mph speed limit. He'll want to be averaging almost 20mph so there are bound to be some downhills where he will go a lot faster.
31 laps of RP would be a Godwin, more or less. That would be akin to what Kurt's been doing in west Florida recently. RP is significantly more hilly though - there's only actually one proper flat stretch of a few hundred yards - the rest is undulating, and Dark Hill is an out-of-the-saddle job (for me anyway) so that would get the heart pounding every lap!
To improve fitness you need recovery time. Riding at LSD pace leaves a lot less recovery time.
In bold is the key issue here: I dont think there is anywhere near enough science and/or data out there to answer it.To improve fitness you need recovery time. Riding at LSD pace leaves a lot less recovery time.
But riding at LSD pace requires a lot less recovery than riding fast.
If you going to do 200 miles the physiological question is whether doing it in 10 hours (20mph) and having 14 hours of recovery a day is better (long term) than doing it in ~14 hours (15mph) and only having 10 hours of recovery a day.
Remember that Steve's current conditioning is such that he's averaging below 90bpm on these rides.
All depends on your power in relation to your FTP. The good Dr has a stages power meter so he is ahead off the game already.
That's an impressive start from Bruce. A 500m climb in his first 3 hours. He's going to be one to watch this year.
Bruce has registered with UMCA. I have had this confirmed by them. So pleased he made this decision.
What counts as a "single bike" under Guinness rules? I can see scope for the proverbial axe of my grandfather here.
What counts as a "single bike" under Guinness rules? I can see scope for the proverbial axe of my grandfather here.
Trigger's broom (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HisD_pqlRHQ) I think you mean. :D
Or, should that be Granville's broom?
Don't be silly Psychler, a ship isn't a broom! :facepalm: ;D
What counts as a "single bike" under Guinness rules? I can see scope for the proverbial axe of my grandfather here.
Trigger's broom (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HisD_pqlRHQ) I think you mean. :D
Don't be silly Psychler, a ship isn't a broom! :facepalm: ;D
it seems a bit reckless for someone who's twice abandoned a LEJOGLE record attempt with knee trouble.
That sounds awfully familiar...I have been looking at some of the posts from this time last year and you are quite right, :thumbsup: ;D
Perhaps he might get the eptithet the "Fremantle Doctor."
Looking at today's ride, 1,260m ascent over 341km isn't really hilly at all - Mount Lofty is a fair old hike, I guess, but it's not all that steep.
Perhaps he might get the eptithet the "Fremantle Doctor."
He's a good few miles from Fremantle, isn't he?
yeah, cause Tommy Godwin was never paced by pros... ;)
There's something a little odd about the Strava figures for Bruce's rides so far (I'm not suggesting anything untoward, just an anomaly I can't make sense of).Is this to do with the privacy zones that Bruce has set up in Strava? Whenever I go out for a run, whatever portion of my run is done within a certain radius of my home is invisible to other Strava users, and doesn't show up on the elevation profile.
When I looked at his total for days 1-7, my calculation based on the GPX data uploaded to Strava was about 49km short of the figure suggested by Strava itself. For only 7 days, this is a much greater discrepancy than I would expect even accounting for home-zone privacy settings etc. I have been working though my calculations looking for possible causes, but was not able to identify anything.
Then I noticed that if you take any ride, say this one on the 4th Jan (https://www.strava.com/activities/462734868), the headline figure on Strava says 337.1km (tallying with Bruce's own comment for the ride), but if you move the mouse over the elevation profile below the map, the distance only goes up to 325.7km. This lower figure matches exactly the one I had also calculated directly from the GPX file.
So which figure is the correct one, and why such a discrepancy? This is too big an error to ignore as ~10km errors for a single day will soon add up.
Any ideas?
I think simonp's answer may be the right explanation, as a wheel-based sensor measures ground speed distance (i.e. includes vertical distance) whereas the GPS calculated distance assumes a flat surface. See Strava's explanation: https://strava.zendesk.com/entries/21278088-How-Distance-is-Calculated.
Do we know if Bruce is in fact using a wheel-based sensor?
Likewise, if Kurt and Steve have been relying solely on GPS-calculated distance then have they in fact been under-reporting their distances? I guess this would be a slightly more significant issue for Steve as I think his routes over the year have been hillier. But for Kurt this could mean his mileage is even higher - though how this could be established in the absence of wheel sensor data I dunno.
That's a rapid looking bike ;D :thumbsup:Bruce's cadence data might come from the stages power meter
Yes, the Stages PM provides cadence data.
I you look closely under the left-hand chainstay in this photo of his bike he tweeted on 8th January, you can see a BBB speed sensor dangling there. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYL0lh-UwAA81oQ.jpg:large (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYL0lh-UwAA81oQ.jpg:large)
Does the GPX file that you can download from Strava contain any <DistanceMeters> tags? That's how the Garmin would be storing the distance from a cadence sensor[1], and what Strava might be using for the distance. Don't have time to check myself right now...
I have always been of the view that a GPS under-records by about 2% compared to an accurately calibrated wheel sensor, on the basis that it is "joining the dots" with a series of straight lines. Having said that, for a record of this nature it isn't possible to rely in wheel sensor because all competitors' distances have to be recorded in a common manner.
For a 2% discrepancy, he must have the calibration out of whack. I've found the auto-wheel size calculation that the Garmin Edge does rather inaccurate, and you get better results overriding that and entering a manual value. Doing this, and running two Garmins - one off GPS, one off a speed sensor - over 400km and 600km distances I've seen differences of around 0.2%, an order of magnitude better than what Jo's finding from Bruce's tracks.
The afternoon's stage of 84 miles around the South Downs saw a breakaway group of 13 riders go clear in the opening miles and build a lead that at one time exceeded 4 minutes. Most of the main teams were represented in the break with VC St Raphael, Energy Cycles, Evans RT and Parrot Print RT each having two riders but the greatest beneficiary looked to be Dave Berkeley (Sigma Sport RT) who looked like becoming the new race leader. However, in an exciting finale the main bunch reduced the group's lead to less than two minutes and at the finish Justin Hoy (Evans RT) produced an outstanding sprint to win the stage ahead of Timmy Barry (Ras Mumhan) and Berkeley.
Hoppo saying on Facebook that Bruce has been disqualified from HAMR.
Would not be a surprise as he has not had the same data transparency as the other contenders (particularly HR).
Riders will be required to have an active live tracking device in operation for all mileage to be credited for the attempt
Rule 7 includes:QuoteRiders will be required to have an active live tracking device in operation for all mileage to be credited for the attempt
It doesn't matter in reality as Strava would give enough recognition anyway. After all, if anybody beats Tommy's 100,000 mile record, there is no means for 'official' recognition.
<Snip>
I don't care what UMCA says or does not say. Allez Bruce.
I note that he wasn't on the umca leaderboard and isn't now. Did he fail to properly register his attempt with them?
The only reason that UMCA has any authority over the record is because Steve decided to do it under their banner. Kurt followed suit and that added some credibility.
However, the HAMR is something that lives in the minds of the community participating in this event. For me, I congratulate Kurt on the official record, but deep down I know that TG rode more miles in one 12 month period (and calendar year) than any man ever in history.
If Bruce manages to surpass this number in 365 days, then he will be the holder of the record - I don't care what UMCA says or does not say. Allez Bruce.
However, the HAMR is something that lives in the minds of the community participating in this event. For me, I congratulate Kurt on the official record, but deep down I know that TG rode more miles in one 12 month period (and calendar year) than any man ever in history.
If Bruce manages to surpass this number in 365 days, then he will be the holder of the record - I don't care what UMCA says or does not say. Allez Bruce.
Sorry to ask if it's already been posted, but what is that non-calendar 365 total set by TG?However, the HAMR is something that lives in the minds of the community participating in this event. For me, I congratulate Kurt on the official record, but deep down I know that TG rode more miles in one 12 month period (and calendar year) than any man ever in history.
If Bruce manages to surpass this number in 365 days, then he will be the holder of the record - I don't care what UMCA says or does not say. Allez Bruce.
Yes, I had been hoping that Kurt would surpass Tommy's highest total in a 365-day period to unify the record. So I hope that Bruce does too: that should be his real target.
AIUI Tommy's best 365 days was not a pre-set goal but there's no getting away from the fact that it is the furthest ridden by anyone in a non-calendar year so Kurt's record - while a magnificent acheivement - will always have to have an asterisk and a footnote against it.
Kurt got the record. No qualification needed.
Kurt got the record. No qualification needed.
Absolutely.
Every single year record before Kurt was ridden 1 Jan to 31 Dec. This was at the expense of not having a bike to ride during the first few days for one or two of the record holders.Well, that would make 2016 a great year to attempt the record cos that means you would get an extra day to do it in......
The official results spreadsheet which was last updated on the 11th makes no mention of Bruce Berkeley. That would tend to suggest a problem with his entry.Well, that would make 2016 a great year to attempt the record cos that means you would get an extra day to do it in......
I think Jo's research has indicated that it is some way in excess of 76000, but I can't remember exactly where he mentioned this. No doubt Citizen Fish is the person to ask.
Why is this coming from Hoppo and not the UMCA or Bruce?
The cynic in me says is saying that Hoppo has made a complaint and it has been upheld by the UMCA.
Why is this coming from Hoppo and not the UMCA or Bruce?
The cynic in me says is saying that Hoppo has made a complaint and it has been upheld by the UMCA.
from Hoppo on Facebook
In answer to the questions being raised on YACF as to why it is on here first is.....
1. I have my finger on the pulse!
2. I do not and will not use YACF!
3. I have said that if you want to know what is going on 1st you need to be on here!!
The figure is 77201 miles I am pretty confident in this total after a lot of cross checking of his diary numbers.
[/quote
Can you remember between which dates this occurred (and does it exclude 29th February)?
An unnecessarily confrontational response (by LMT) in the lack of actual information. I feel regret that for whatever reason, the whole of YACF is seen as somewhere Hoppo doesn't respect. Perhaps responses like that above only confirm prejudice about this place.Another possible UCR:
Chris, don't you think it's you that should be giving the UMCA a chance to make an official announcement before posting AND tagging Bruce for all to see? It makes the UMCA look disgraceful if this is how they communicate to athletes and followers of the record. Is that really why they tell Crew Chiefs first, so that they can post 'WOW' messages on social media and blame the time difference on not being able to provide a better message? It shows zero respect to Bruce, someone that's dedicating a year of his life to this record and by doing so is also promoting the UMCA. What a slap in the face!
That would be a great shame if Bruce's efforts are not authenticated by UMCA or another 'official' body. He's got off to a cracking start and shows every sign of possessing the drive and consistency necessary to break the record.Completely agree with your 1st point. We really dont need a 'world boxing champion' type farce :(
I am a believer in a 'crowdsourced validation' – if we trust the record, it has de facto legitimacy. My only slight reservation, apart from the need to be reassured that the logged miles are legitimate, is that the recording mechanism of previous records does itself have a cost to the riders, so makes comparisons a little more difficult if future record holders were not obliged to follow the same. In Tommy's case, most obviously, was the need for signed witness cards, which over the year must have accumulated a lot of 'wasted' time. In Steve's case, we know of at least one day where problems with the spot satellite tracker cost him some time to sort out. Perhaps this isn't much in the scheme of things, but something to consider.
That would be a great shame if Bruce's efforts are not authenticated by UMCA or another 'official' body. He's got off to a cracking start and shows every sign of possessing the drive and consistency necessary to break the record.Completely agree with your 1st point. We really dont need a 'world boxing champion' type farce :(
I am a believer in a 'crowdsourced validation' – if we trust the record, it has de facto legitimacy. My only slight reservation, apart from the need to be reassured that the logged miles are legitimate, is that the recording mechanism of previous records does itself have a cost to the riders, so makes comparisons a little more difficult if future record holders were not obliged to follow the same. In Tommy's case, most obviously, was the need for signed witness cards, which over the year must have accumulated a lot of 'wasted' time. In Steve's case, we know of at least one day where problems with the spot satellite tracker cost him some time to sort out. Perhaps this isn't much in the scheme of things, but something to consider.
But another factor against crowdsourced validation:
Imagine Bruce breaks the record without the UMCA. He might become known as the record-holder if us, Strava and Cycling Weekly believe him. Fine so far ...
Then further UMCA riders come along. Hoppo breaks Bruce's record, then Steve puts another 5000 miles on top etc etc ( :P )
There will then be a list on the UMCA site with no mention of Bruce's ride. A sad situation.
A great shame if it does start fractioning, though.
An unnecessarily confrontational response (by LMT) in the lack of actual information. I feel regret that for whatever reason, the whole of YACF is seen as somewhere Hoppo doesn't respect. Perhaps responses like that above only confirm prejudice about this place.Another possible UCR:(click to show/hide)
Did UMCA ever acknowledge Wilko's 541 mile 24 hr record?
If not, does that mean he didn't do it?
I am not a fan of 'members only' records. We are all just individuals on a small rock
doing our best, whether in USA, UK, Australia etc.
I'd like there to be cross-recognition between competent bodies to make a world record
which was adjudicated by one body be accepted by another, if the rules are common.
No, the UMCA ignore everything that isn't done by their rules, kind of like Guinness.
No, the UMCA ignore everything that isn't done by their rules, kind of like Guinness.
The Brits are almost as bad though. Wilko set the End to End record on a faired recumbent and the Road Records Association doesn't recognise it, because apparently they don't recognise recumbents at all (same at Cycling Time Trials). This despite Wilko's ride being timed by RRA folk and being held under RRA rules.
The UMCA used to have limited recognition of existing records but that approach seems to have died out.
No, the UMCA ignore everything that isn't done by their rules, kind of like Guinness.
Can a nonmember win an audax uk points championship?
What is really required is a track recording device that can digitally sign tracks.They can be fiddled as well. Computer security is a war. What works one day does not the next.
No, the UMCA ignore everything that isn't done by their rules, kind of like Guinness.
Is he live-tracking somewhere (Required under rule 7 of the UMCA HAM'R)? I see that the rules require at least one of heart rate or power readings, and as he has submitted power via Strava, that at least is covered.
Yes. He is initially using a phone app, but moving to SPOT soon. As soon as he does I will get him added to Trackleaders.
No, the UMCA ignore everything that isn't done by their rules, kind of like Guinness.
Kind of like every other cycling body.
Bruce Berkeley signed up to the UMCA rules, so you might imagine he wanted to play by them. He says it's their administrative error, so perhaps there's a discussion going on (Kurt argued with UMCA and won on one or two occasions).
It's possible. For whatever reason the UMCA have emailed crew chiefs it seems, but not chosen to make the information public. In which case I would have hoped all people trusted with that information would have sat on it until the UMCA decided to announce what they were doing. Pre-empting on Facebook is pretty disrespectful IMHO.
It's possible. For whatever reason the UMCA have emailed crew chiefs it seems, but not chosen to make the information public. In which case I would have hoped all people trusted with that information would have sat on it until the UMCA decided to announce what they were doing. Pre-empting on Facebook is pretty disrespectful IMHO.
I agree. Hoppo clearly doesn't, and doesn't see anything wrong with publicising something which by intimation was not for public broadcast. Oh well.
No, the UMCA ignore everything that isn't done by their rules, kind of like Guinness.
Guinness recognise an unpaced 24 Hour record from 2010 on a track in Brescia by Marko Baloh. That was officiated by UMCA. One of the three officials was Hoppo, if I recall correctly. http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/greatest-distance-cycled-in-24-hours-(unpaced)-/
Baloh won the UMCA World TT Championships last November with 502.1 miles. 24 Hour TT results in the USA are starting to approach those in the UK.
http://my2.raceresult.com/39343/results?lang=en#24_322C57
What is really required is a track recording device that can digitally sign tracks.They can be fiddled as well. Computer security is a war. What works one day does not the next.
No, there's a clear way it could be done so that it is very unlikely to be fiddled. Certain parts of computer security are quite secure. The question is how easily it can be subverted (for this it would be a question of who gets access to the private keys, and it's possible to limit that access quite but not perfectly well.)Agreed - digital signing would be the answer - but needs buy-in from suppliers. In general, GPS devices used by cyclists (and most sportspeople) are for personal performance recording purposes, not validation, so the market for a 'secure' device which signs the output is pretty low.
A device that cryptographically signs the trackpoints it logs would be very useful, and very very hard to spoof.
There were, of course, the two alcohol-related issues about this time last year. There was the bottle of wine on LWaB's sideboard that had UMCA jumping up and down, and then there was Kurt's after-ride beers, which initially seemed to be in breach of the rules and then, subsequently, wasn't.
I don't intend this in any way to be seen to be having a pop at Kurt - it isn't. However, if the UMCa want to be taken seriously as an impartial arbiter of the annual mileage record, the they have to be seen to be impartial. If there is a problem with Bruce's challenge then that problem, in the form of the eqivalent of a first warning, should have been made public, along with any possible sanctions for future infringements. A straight disqualification with no warning is not in the nature of any sport that I am aware of.
Did UMCA ever acknowledge Wilko's 541 mile 24 hr record?
If not, does that mean he didn't do it?
I am not a fan of 'members only' records. We are all just individuals on a small rock
doing our best, whether in USA, UK, Australia etc.
I'd like there to be cross-recognition between competent bodies to make a world record
which was adjudicated by one body be accepted by another, if the rules are common.
No, the UMCA ignore everything that isn't done by their rules, kind of like Guinness.
The Brits are almost as bad though. Wilko set the End to End record on a faired recumbent and the Road Records Association doesn't recognise it, because apparently they don't recognise recumbents at all (same at Cycling Time Trials). This despite Wilko's ride being timed by RRA folk and being held under RRA rules.
The UMCA used to have limited recognition of existing records but that approach seems to have died out.
Bruce Berkeley has been officially disqualified in his HAM’R attempt. He was not in compliance with the rules when he started. The UMCA gave him several chances to become compliant but he did nothing to avail himself of those chances. He never came into full compliance.
No longer, but continues to function as "northern European liaison" apparently.
It's very unfortunate how the news has come out, and, for all his other qualities, I feel Chris Hopkinson has acted unprofessionally, and in a very unsporting manner. I've unfriended him on FaceBook, which I imagine bothers him not a jot.
I am glad to hear Bruce is still riding, and I hope that he can set a mark that we can recognise, though, without the likes of UMCA and Guinness behind him, I imagine that there will be quibbles about the validity that will go round in the narrow circles that comprise cycling clubs and online forumsforever, getting more and more heated while the rest of the world will just applaud the feat.
Really not sure how this is going to turn out. I would have thought UMCA would have checked appropriate systems were in place before the start, otherwise it becomes a farce. Anyway, I wish him tailwinds and flint-free roads.
So who is officiating? Guinness?
Because he'll struggle to start each day where he finished the previous if he plans to return from Oz...
So who is officiating? Guinness?
Because he'll struggle to start each day where he finished the previous if he plans to return from Oz...
Normally I object to FTFY... ;)It's very unfortunate how the news has come out, and, for all his other qualities, I feel Chris Hopkinson has acted unprofessionally, and in a very unsporting manner. I've unfriended him on FaceBook, which I imagine bothers him not a jot.
I am glad to hear Bruce is still riding, and I hope that he can set a mark that we can recognise, though, without the likes of UMCA and Guinness behind him, I imagine that there will be quibbles about the validity that will go round in the narrow circles that comprise cycling clubs and online forumsforever, getting more and more heated while the rest of the world will just applaud the feat.
Really not sure how this is going to turn out. I would have thought UMCA would have checked appropriate systems were in place before the start, otherwise it becomes a farce. Anyway, I wish him tailwinds and flint-free roads.
FTFY
So who is officiating? Guinness?
Because he'll struggle to start each day where he finished the previous if he plans to return from Oz...
Isn't Bruce writing for Bike Radar during the attempt? Could they (or one of their magazines) be the verifier?That would make it very much in keeping with Tommy Godwin's.
I'm not sure its the UMCA's role to check that people are compliant before they start rather for people to read the rules and be sure they comply. If this all about a lack of tracker i would wonder why. they are not expensive or complicated.
Tracking/recording devices shall be tested at least two weeks prior to the start of the attempt to ensure that the Records Chairman will be able to access the data.
I'm not sure its the UMCA's role to check that people are compliant before they start rather for people to read the rules and be sure they comply. If this all about a lack of tracker i would wonder why. they are not expensive or complicated.
It should also have come to light before he started, the rules state:-QuoteTracking/recording devices shall be tested at least two weeks prior to the start of the attempt to ensure that the Records Chairman will be able to access the data.
Bruce has got enough exposure and previous track record to show what he is capable of and should not worry about umca validation. if he beats the record (and i wish him all the best) it will be there for the future competitors to aspire to.
AIUI the purpose of the tracker is so that they can potentially send someone out at random times to check that you are where you say you are, riding in accordance with their rules.
AIUI the purpose of the tracker is so that they can potentially send someone out at random times to check that you are where you say you are, riding in accordance with their rules.
And not only the UMCA but any member of the public.
I see that Wikipedia has not bedn updated since Kurt broke the record.
Interestingly Bruce can claim the highest mileage in 1 month "world record" because it was officially recognised
where as we all know that Teethgrinder, Tommy Godwin and Kurt have all ridden further.
He must be careful.
I see that Wikipedia has not bedn updated since Kurt broke the record.
That can be very easily remedied, you know.
I agree. GPX/TCX tracks are essentially text files, and are easily manufactured. Bruce doesn't use a heart rate monitor, so there's no way to prove beyond doubt that he rode where he said he rode, and that it was actually him that did it.
UCMA may be twunts
I see that Wikipedia has not bedn updated since Kurt broke the record.Difficult to update Wikipedia when UMCA haven't updated their website.
UCMA may be twunts
I'm seeing no good evidence to conclude that.
I agree. GPX/TCX tracks are essentially text files, and are easily manufactured. Bruce doesn't use a heart rate monitor, so there's no way to prove beyond doubt that he rode where he said he rode, and that it was actually him that did it.
The HR data wouldn't prove that either, it's just more data in the existing files (even the binary .fit files are easy to fake). Bruce is collecting power data (the UMCA ask for power or HR along with time/location), and power data is harder to fake convincingly than HR data.
Live tracking (via a service like a SPOT tracker rather than a Garmin/Strava App) is the key though as it makes it many orders of magnitude harder to fake, and you risk being found out by random checks.
Tim, I've tried reading your post with every conceivable emphasis, and it still souns like you think they're twunts!UCMA may be twunts
I'm seeing no good evidence to conclude that.
No, nor me - I'm just allowing for the possibility that the issue may be at their end. I make no judgement either way.
A note from Doug Hoffman, Executive Director of the UMCA:
At this time we are not going to explain further the reason for his disqualification. What we will say is that he was notified of the issues by every means at our disposal and offered support in resolving said issues.
If he were to desire to attempt a record with the UMCA as the regulating body at any time in the future and was willing to comply with published rules, we would welcome his participation.
This is the UCMA statement(s):
www.ultracycling.com/wp_news/?p=967
(can't hurt to post twice!)Tim, I've tried reading your post with every conceivable emphasis, and it still souns like you think they're twunts!UCMA may be twunts
I'm seeing no good evidence to conclude that.
No, nor me - I'm just allowing for the possibility that the issue may be at their end. I make no judgement either way.
Oh well, you've set the record straight now! :thumbsup:
At this time we are not going to explain further the reason for his disqualification.
They haven't explicitly ruled out Bruce being a lizard man from outer space, so I'm going with that for now.
It's not clear at all. We haven't been told what the issue is, other than that he hasn't complied with certain rules. It would help if they said which rules.
Interestingly Bruce can claim the highest mileage in 1 month "world record" because it was officially recognised
where as we all know that Teethgrinder, Tommy Godwin and Kurt have all ridden further.
He must be careful.
Interestingly Bruce can claim the highest mileage in 1 month "world record" because it was officially recognised
where as we all know that Teethgrinder, Tommy Godwin and Kurt have all ridden further.
He must be careful.
Does he actually have the one month distance record? Guinness have it as a woman...
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/118987-farthest-distance-cycled-in-one-month
Verification has now to be received from Guinness World Records that she has completed all requirements of the endurance task that nobody has presented to them before – the longest distance cycled in a month.
Davison has had to submit thousands of photos, videos, daily logs, signed logbooks and gps files to prove her accomplishment.
The 152 miles cycled on Day 28 was the furthest she has ever ridden.
“Before I started the challenge I didn’t know how far I’d be able to ride in total,” she said.
“I knew that I could reach the target of 5000km (3107 miles) which Guinness World Records set for me.
“I was pleased that I reached over 4000 miles without my body complaining much.
“The best thing though has been how kind, helpful and enthusiastic other people were towards my challenge.
“During my rides I had to ask strangers to sign my logbook, and they were always helpful and a pleasure to meet.”
She is not about to put her feet up though.
“There’s a lot that needs doing in our garden, and I’d like to find some new work contracts. There’s also a cycling holiday to plan,” said Davison.
She is also using the challenge to help raise funds for Alzheimer’s Research UK and welcomes donations at http://uk.virginmoneygiving.com/JanetDavison.
You can read her 30-day blog at Janet30DayCycle.blogspot.co.uk
Can't see the big deal with the UMCA myself.
It would be very impressive if he told them to "stick it" and went on to clean up completely.
Bruce looks to have not made the effort to comply.
SPOT tracker is £150 to buy (direct, £100 from an authorised dealer on eBay) and then £100 for the tracking plan for a year. Compared to his other expenses for the year it's not going to be big at all. The trackers have good resale value too, so some of the initial cost can be recouped.
Speaking about why she took on this challenge Janet told wilmslow.co.uk "In December last year I learnt of Steve Abraham's attempt at breaking the record for the most miles cycled in a year. Of course I had to see what the women's record is. In 1938 Billie Fleming rode 29,603.7 miles, an average of 81 miles per day. After some real ale and wine I thought 'I could do that!'. However, after sober thoughts, I decided that committing to a whole year of cycling wasn't fair on my family, and it would require a huge amount of organisation. But what record could I attempt?
"That's when I found out that there is currently not a record for one month's duration. I spent the next few weeks pondering the challenge and finally in February I decided to send the email to Guinness World Records, telling them of my attempt."
It's pretty clear that Bruce's claims to have the Guinness month record are unsubstantiated.
It would seem that Bruce's 'records' have not been ratified by Guinness, and now the UCMA have refused to oversee his year attempt because he 'can't afford' a SPOT tracker (cost £150) - though he can afford to go to Australia to ride.
It would seem that Bruce's 'records' have not been ratified by Guinness, and now the UCMA have refused to oversee his year attempt because he 'can't afford' a SPOT tracker (cost £150) - though he can afford to go to Australia to ride.
The danger with speculating is that it quickly gets quoted as fact.
It would seem that Bruce's 'records' have not been ratified by Guinness, and now the UCMA have refused to oversee his year attempt because he 'can't afford' a SPOT tracker (cost £150) - though he can afford to go to Australia to ride.
The danger with speculating is that it quickly gets quoted as fact.
In which respect am I speculating? His claim to hold two Guinness records is unsubstantiated - and I've checked Guinness' site, and he's not there. His DQ from HAM'R is a matter of fact, and it's been stated on Strava by a friend that he couldn't afford the tracker device (and doesn't have time to bother with the paperwork anyway).
It would seem that Bruce's 'records' have not been ratified by Guinness, and now the UCMA have refused to oversee his year attempt because he 'can't afford' a SPOT tracker (cost £150) - though he can afford to go to Australia to ride.
The danger with speculating is that it quickly gets quoted as fact.
In which respect am I speculating? His claim to hold two Guinness records is unsubstantiated - and I've checked Guinness' site, and he's not there. His DQ from HAM'R is a matter of fact, and it's been stated on Strava by a friend that he couldn't afford the tracker device (and doesn't have time to bother with the paperwork anyway).
The reason for his DQ from HAMR is not known.
Can you point me to the Strava comment? The only one I've seen is the vague one posted up-thread which has no specifics.
Dear all - I know that Bruce doesnt have enough time to read all the posts, but also that he does really value everyones input. It make s ahuge difference to him. Let me expand a bit further - just help complete the picture for you (and I am sorry for those that know him - I dont want to tread on any toes). Bruce is doing this on 'bare bones'. He has literally no 'actual' support. The excellent and generous sponsors (Shimano, Stages, Garmin, Continental, Canyon, Assos, sorry I have forgotten some I am sure) have provided product for him to use, but there is no money here. Further more, he is lucky to have friends who allow him to stay at their houses - in many cases, he is couch surfing. He gets off his bike every day, after 11-13hrs, and has to maintain it himself. He feeds himself, he goes to the shops to buy food for tomorrow, then he gets up and starts again. So he has the tools to do the job. But really almost nothing else. No support. Noone following in a car, no mechanic, no chef, no wife, no-one with a spare set of bidons to grab as he pushes out 11hrs a day. The HAMR business is a real shame - but Bruce pretty much has no energy nor time to attend to it now that he is 'in' the attempt. Crowd-funding is something we (as a group of friends) have discussed. He does need some support. The technology and the cost have been a distraction that he cant afford. None of us have any experience in it to be honest. If anyone really can help - in some capacity - then I am happy to help coordinate this on behalf of Bruce - who (feel free to check my FB, or Bruces) is an old friend of mine. Please email me direct on anthony.shippard@gmail.com if you have any ideas or want to discuss further. Brucey - I know I didnt talk to you about this last night, but I also know you will be cool with it. Keep riding brother. Lets see how we can all help
The fact that the cost is mentioned along with the comments that he's doing the attempt on a 'bare bones' basis and that 'there is no money here' and that crowd funding has been discussed leads me to believe that Bruce has decided he can't afford the Spot tracker, and had hoped that Strava tracking would be sufficient. I don't think it's an unreasonable inference.
I remember the monthly record attempt last year. Looking at the various articles, it does specifically refer to a Guinness Record (as well as the weekly record also being a Guinness one).
http://road.cc/content/news/141773-bruce-berkeley-rides-nearly-10000km-january-set-new-guinness-world-record
Having satisfied the criteria set, using GPS tracking, video evidence and log book signing, Janet must now submit a lot of evidence to Guinness World Records, which they must verify before the record is official.
The fact that the cost is mentioned along with the comments that he's doing the attempt on a 'bare bones' basis and that 'there is no money here' and that crowd funding has been discussed leads me to believe that Bruce has decided he can't afford the Spot tracker, and had hoped that Strava tracking would be sufficient. I don't think it's an unreasonable inference.
Sure, I don't think it's an unreasonable inference, but it's still an inference.
I've now read Chris Hopkinson's posts on Bruce's facebook page.
Disgracefully unprofessional, rude and childish. Incredibly so.
His connection with UMCA discredits the organisation.
The fact that the cost is mentioned along with the comments that he's doing the attempt on a 'bare bones' basis and that 'there is no money here' and that crowd funding has been discussed leads me to believe that Bruce has decided he can't afford the Spot tracker, and had hoped that Strava tracking would be sufficient. I don't think it's an unreasonable inference.
Sure, I don't think it's an unreasonable inference, but it's still an inference.
This isn't a court of law, and no-one's died. We are not looking for forensic standards of 'proof'. It is stated in the public domain that Bruce is unfunded and has little or no help. I believe that to infer from his friend's statement that he can't afford a Spot tracker (nor the time to set it up) is reasonable in the context of trying to determine what has gone wrong between Bruce and the UCMA. If you regard that as unfounded speculation, I'm sorry. What would you suggest we do?
Sorry to but in, but what involvement has bike radar with Bruce?
Are they going to print reports on his progress for possible money?
Couldn't they publish a crowd funding effort for Bruce?
Just thinking.
I'd be pretty miffed if I was a Guinness record holder and someone came along claiming the same record without having done any of the groundwork to have it verified.
Did road.cc write an article on the current Monthly record holder? I wonder what the current status is of Bruce's Guinness Record? Claiming it without it actually being verified is a bit rich.
Sorry to but in, but what involvement has bike radar with Bruce?
Are they going to print reports on his progress for possible money?
Couldn't they publish a crowd funding effort for Bruce?
Just thinking.
Bruce will be blogging exclusively for BikeRadar throughout his record attempt, so stay tuned for more.
The fact that the cost is mentioned along with the comments that he's doing the attempt on a 'bare bones' basis and that 'there is no money here' and that crowd funding has been discussed leads me to believe that Bruce has decided he can't afford the Spot tracker, and had hoped that Strava tracking would be sufficient. I don't think it's an unreasonable inference.
Sure, I don't think it's an unreasonable inference, but it's still an inference.
This isn't a court of law, and no-one's died. We are not looking for forensic standards of 'proof'. It is stated in the public domain that Bruce is unfunded and has little or no help. I believe that to infer from his friend's statement that he can't afford a Spot tracker (nor the time to set it up) is reasonable in the context of trying to determine what has gone wrong between Bruce and the UCMA. If you regard that as unfounded speculation, I'm sorry. What would you suggest we do?
You could put "I think" or "In my opinion" before the sentence so that someone doesn't read it and think it's fact and go off and quote it elsewhere. It's quite simple.
If a SPOT tracker was required then the rules should state that, rather than "Live Tracking" device that needs to be approved by the UMCA Records Chairman. I think it came down to Bruce trying to argue that Strava Active Friends satisfied the "live tracking" requirement, and the UMCA saying they wouldn't approve that. Neither was willing to budge and so the UMCA had no choice but to do what it did. But, again, this is just my guesswork.
I'm sure you'll agree that this is another way the facts/statements have could be read, in which case it's not quite the case of him being DQ'd because he couldn't afford a SPOT tracker.
You could put "I think" or "In my opinion" before the sentence so that someone doesn't read it and think it's fact and go off and quote it elsewhere. It's quite simple.
I'd be pretty miffed if I was a Guinness record holder and someone came along claiming the same record without having done any of the groundwork to have it verified.
Did road.cc write an article on the current Monthly record holder? I wonder what the current status is of Bruce's Guinness Record? Claiming it without it actually being verified is a bit rich.
I wonder what Janet Davison could do in the 24? She looks to have the right build.
(http://www.wilmslow.co.uk/img/w/720/h/480/s/c56abd3c83d50270488ea84e10e004e0.jpg)
I've now read Chris Hopkinson's posts on Bruce's facebook page.
Disgracefully unprofessional, rude and childish. Incredibly so.
His connection with UMCA discredits the organisation.
I've now read Chris Hopkinson's posts on Bruce's facebook page.
Disgracefully unprofessional, rude and childish. Incredibly so.
His connection with UMCA discredits the organisation.
I'd be pretty miffed if I was a Guinness record holder and someone came along claiming the same record without having done any of the groundwork to have it verified.
Did road.cc write an article on the current Monthly record holder? I wonder what the current status is of Bruce's Guinness Record? Claiming it without it actually being verified is a bit rich.
I've now read Chris Hopkinson's posts on Bruce's facebook page.
I've now read Chris Hopkinson's posts on Bruce's facebook page.
Got a link? I can't see any on Bruce's page except for one from him saying "Looking good" on the 7th Jan.
Maybe it's because I'm not a FB friend of either of them...or did you mean the posts about Bruce on Hoppo's own FB page?
The excellent and generous sponsors (Shimano, Stages, Garmin, Continental, Canyon, Assos, sorry I have forgotten some I am sure) have provided product for him to use, but there is no money here.
Ah, right. I don't see them on Bruce's page but then there are a million FB related reasons why that could be.It wasn't just his breaking the news, it was his response to people.
As for the posts; some people just like to be the ones to break the news first.
ABSOLUTELY agree - give me a really expensive bike and I'll do x - oh I've managed to get disqualified just out of the start.....
Personally, I think that an unwillingness to conform to the rules of the only group out there willing to certify the record shows serious disrespect to this list of sponsors. Cyclists show disrespect to their sponsors here in the US all the time-- category racers wanting free or greatly reduced prices from companies to race with, as if their Cat 4 abilities should be supported by others. In this case, if all those companies gave him kit under the presumption that he would be doing the HAMR, then to make a cock-up of it in the first two weeks over something completely under his own control is childish and unprofessional. Who cares if you think the UMCA is stooopid for having their requirements? If companies gave you thousands of dollars worth of gear because you represented yourself as going for a record, then you conform to the rules even if they're below you. I'd ask for the kit back.
Ah, right. I don't see them on Bruce's page but then there are a million FB related reasons why that could be.It wasn't just his breaking the news, it was his response to people.
As for the posts; some people just like to be the ones to break the news first.
I'd expect better from a crew chief TBH.
He served on the UMCA Board of Directors for seven and a half years, then continued service to UMCA as the Northern European Liaison and continues to perform that service to the present day.
Re Hoppo: I would have thought that being a UMCA official and Steve's Crew Chief would be a conflict of interest?
Were they associated before last year? I'm pretty sure the only time Hoppo rides is actually in competition; he proudly states that all his training is on the turbo (a position with which I can sympathise in this weather!), and I'm not aware of him ever having anything to do with Audax. I know it's a tangent, but how did he come to be associated with Steve's HAM'R attempt?
ISTR from last year that he was appointed by UMCA so that he could be their man on the ground, at quite a late stage in the process, possibly after Steve had started riding.
Ah yes, I remember you saying that now. So how can he be both the UMCA Official (which I read as Observer, from the rules) and at the same time be the Crew Chief? As I say, this to me seems like a conflict of interest, and I'm surprised the UMCA allows it.He claims to be on the board of directors as well.
Chris Hopkinson If you didn't know Craig McGregor, Shusanah Pillinger and myself are also on the Board of Directors of the UMCA! And i was also involved in getting the HAM'R started in the first place!!!!
I'm sure you will already know that though, as i'm sure you will have done your homework??!!!
Even with his full schedule, Hoppo made time to serve ultracycling for many years. He served on the UMCA Board of Directors for seven and a half years, then continued service to UMCA as the Northern European Liaison and continues to perform that service to the present day. Congratulations to Chris Hopkinson, the newest recipient of the Ultra Cyclist of Distinction!
Hmm, not according to the UMCA themselves, but then it may have changed since this was published.
https://ultracycling.com/sections/awards/ucd/hoppo/QuoteEven with his full schedule, Hoppo made time to serve ultracycling for many years. He served on the UMCA Board of Directors for seven and a half years, then continued service to UMCA as the Northern European Liaison and continues to perform that service to the present day. Congratulations to Chris Hopkinson, the newest recipient of the Ultra Cyclist of Distinction!
That page says "Updated March 2015" so he may have been on the board whilst HAMR was being set up (which must have happened prior to Jan 1st 2015) but left the board at a point after that.
Elsewhere the website lists him as a non-voting director: https://ultracycling.com/sections/contact/ so nothing is really clear. Does becoming a non-voting directory mean "leaving the board"?. No idea if that page is up to date as neither Craig nor Shusanah are listed as board members. (I recognise one other UK Audaxer's name on that contact page, interesting, didn't know that.)
Regardless, the UMCA themselves are quite aware of his positions (especially if they were involved in his appointment as Steve's Crew Chief) and don't seem to have a problem with it. If you're really concerned you could drop the Records Chairman or the Executive Director an email and see what they think.
Oh dear. Bruce has hardly covered himself in glory there. Drew and UMCA have been remarkably patient and accommodating.Exactly my thoughts.
Reading the post upthread detailing the UMCA's responses to Bruce, it would seem they made it abundantly clear that he needed a Spot tracker. And, as was pointed out yesterday, their rules require that this stuff is sorted at least two weeks before the attempt begins. Why didn't Bruce do that? He paid the money, so why not jump through the hoops? It all seems so futile.
Reading the post upthread detailing the UMCA's responses to Bruce, it would seem they made it abundantly clear that he needed a Spot tracker. And, as was pointed out yesterday, their rules require that this stuff is sorted at least two weeks before the attempt begins. Why didn't Bruce do that? He paid the money, so why not jump through the hoops? It all seems so futile.
Because he is good at cycling. And maybe not a lot else, like admin, building a team, communications, etc.
This UMCA HAMR thing is flawed anyway, as it's skewed towards attempts like Kurts' with mild weather and a follow car.
This UMCA HAMR thing is flawed anyway, as it's skewed towards attempts like Kurts' with mild weather and a follow car. You can't compare Steves' ride to Kurts' because they're not done under the same conditions, despite having the same tracker and following the same rule book.
If Bruce wants to ride further than anyone else, that's his choice how he does it, surely.
(it appears that strava is not enough, people have already noted some discrepancies in his distances due to use/lack of use of a wheel sensor (I can not remember which way it was!).
(it appears that strava is not enough, people have already noted some discrepancies in his distances due to use/lack of use of a wheel sensor (I can not remember which way it was!).
No, that was just down to amount of riding he had been doing within the Strava privacy zones. Looking at the rides on Garmin Connect confirmed this.
(it appears that strava is not enough, people have already noted some discrepancies in his distances due to use/lack of use of a wheel sensor (I can not remember which way it was!).
No, that was just down to amount of riding he had been doing within the Strava privacy zones. Looking at the rides on Garmin Connect confirmed this.
Here's the post that cleared that up: https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=93962.msg1971214#msg1971214
The UMCA could certainly do with clarifying their requirements about live tracking. Something along the lines of "Must be visible to the public without individual access approvals, and must maintain a log of positions recorded." That would at least stop someone in the future making the mistake.
Either that or make the fee higher to include the rental of a SPOT tracker and year long tracking subscription with a deposit refunded upon return (with the appropriate discount for riders that provide their own).
No-one predicted the membership issue though, that's an interesting one.
he will not be seen in the same light as Steve or kurt whatever happens.
I always thought the difference between Florida, the Southern States and The eastern side of The UK was blindingly obvious. Maybe I'm wrong and my geography skills are completely crap and The UK is just like Florida, only different.
Just because the rules are the same, doesn't mean the miles are the same.
1. I am sorry I have been riding every day as you can no doubt see, and forgot to make the payment.
2. I looked into the spot tracking and simply do not have the funds to spend more money on this option. I sent you a option that does provide live tracking and it would do the job required. It does not say on your website that I have to use a specific brand of live tracking, simply that I must have live tracking. I think I have not breached any rules here either.
but Kurt used a recumbent
The UMCA could certainly do with clarifying their requirements about live tracking. Something along the lines of "Must be visible to the public without individual access approvals, and must maintain a log of positions recorded." That would at least stop someone in the future making the mistake.
Either that or make the fee higher to include the rental of a SPOT tracker and year long tracking subscription with a deposit refunded upon return (with the appropriate discount for riders that provide their own).
No-one predicted the membership issue though, that's an interesting one.
But they clarified that in subsequent correspondence. They required a SPOT tracker. I'm not surprised they wouldn't accept Find My Friends as what are the chances his phone would keep charge throughout and it's reliant on a mobile signal. Like Miles it sounds like Bruce might be "technologically challenged".
The year round record (deliberately not HAMR) is not an agreeable personality contest, a test of obedience to rules, or of general amiability. It's only about riding the miles.
but Kurt used a recumbent
.... Of course this does not even scratch the surface when in 2014 Steve helped draft all the rules in the first place.
The UMCA could certainly do with clarifying their requirements about live tracking. Something along the lines of "Must be visible to the public without individual access approvals, and must maintain a log of positions recorded." That would at least stop someone in the future making the mistake.
Either that or make the fee higher to include the rental of a SPOT tracker and year long tracking subscription with a deposit refunded upon return (with the appropriate discount for riders that provide their own).
No-one predicted the membership issue though, that's an interesting one.
But they clarified that in subsequent correspondence. They required a SPOT tracker. I'm not surprised they wouldn't accept Find My Friends as what are the chances his phone would keep charge throughout and it's reliant on a mobile signal. Like Miles it sounds like Bruce might be "technologically challenged".
Then why not put in the rules that a SPOT tracker is explicitly required? They asked for "Live Tracking" without specifics of what was required, they also said it must be in place at least two weeks before the record attempt was due to start but the correspondence released suggests Bruce was first told to get a SPOT tracker on December 30th.
(Obviously there must have been correspondence before 30th December as Bruce would have needed to apply in the first place, so it might have been covered there.)
Is it Bruce's fault for not ensuring the live tracking was acceptable before starting, or the UMCA's fault for not enforcing its rules early enough to give him fair warning? (Probably a combination of both...)
but Kurt used a recumbent
This seems to me to be one of the key ingredients as to why we should give UMCA such little credibility.
The rule of being able to ride a recumbent bicycle was introduced after Steve had his 'off'. The fact that Hoppo seems to have had a controversial role in both Steve's camp and the UMCA camp points to the rules being amended on the fly to suit one particular rider. Of course this does not even scratch the surface when in 2014 Steve helped draft all the rules in the first place.
Kurt then used this rule change to his full advantage. In my opinion, this was most unfortunate - as it questioned the legitimacy of his putative record.
Compare this to Bruce's attempt. Instead of rules being changed to assist his attempt (recumbent), rules are being changed (prescribed manufacturer's kit) to hinder his attempt.
Shame that Bruce seems to have burnt his bridges with the UMCA.
And following the correspondence between UMCA and Bruce, it looks to me that there would have been space for an alternative to Spot that satisfied the requirements of open access and a log of previous positions should Bruce have proposed one. I see the the mention of Spot as a helpful suggestion that was known to be practical and affordable.The solution Bruce wanted to use wasn't open.
And the very best of luck getting Guinness to ratify an attempt retrospectively, which has proposed relocation across the globe planned! :\
The UMCA could certainly do with clarifying their requirements about live tracking. Something along the lines of "Must be visible to the public without individual access approvals, and must maintain a log of positions recorded." That would at least stop someone in the future making the mistake.
Either that or make the fee higher to include the rental of a SPOT tracker and year long tracking subscription with a deposit refunded upon return (with the appropriate discount for riders that provide their own).
No-one predicted the membership issue though, that's an interesting one.
But they clarified that in subsequent correspondence. They required a SPOT tracker. I'm not surprised they wouldn't accept Find My Friends as what are the chances his phone would keep charge throughout and it's reliant on a mobile signal. Like Miles it sounds like Bruce might be "technologically challenged".
Then why not put in the rules that a SPOT tracker is explicitly required? They asked for "Live Tracking" without specifics of what was required, they also said it must be in place at least two weeks before the record attempt was due to start but the correspondence released suggests Bruce was first told to get a SPOT tracker on December 30th.
(Obviously there must have been correspondence before 30th December as Bruce would have needed to apply in the first place, so it might have been covered there.)
Is it Bruce's fault for not ensuring the live tracking was acceptable before starting, or the UMCA's fault for not enforcing its rules early enough to give him fair warning? (Probably a combination of both...)
[EDIT]
Keeping things charged isn't a technology problem, it's a logisitical problem, and it applies to the recording device (Garmin) too, so no difference there. There are rules in place to deal with what happens when the tracking is lost, which ultimately ends up in a DQ if it proves too unreliable.
SPOT trackers aren't 100% reliable either, there are plenty of times where Steve and Kurt's trackers have missed a few updates (not just because they've turned them off at a stop!). Mobile coverage looks fine in Adelaide (and the roads he was using) and isn't really a problem in the UK, depending on your mobile network you're rarely out of signal for more than 10 minutes if you're cycling, which isn't much different from SPOT updates every 15 minutes. The lack of public access to the data, and the lack of logging, looked to be the problem and I'm surprised that couldn't be addressed with a different app, surely there is one out there that does both of those for cheap.
I'm inclined to let Bruce get on with it. He's clearly incapable of falsifying his data, as he lacks the competence.
We can examine his data to see if it conforms to the trends seen in other record attempts, which is a dataset that has grown enormously in the last year. It will be easy to see any 'blips' that indicate cheating or changes in methodology. Riding with pros comes to mind, or motor-pacing. Those won't disqualify him in my mind, but he might need to explain those variations.
UMCA need to defend their existence. The rise of unsupported 'Transcontinental' rides is putting them out of a job. Audax is feeling some of that, look at the two parallel 'Wild Atlantic Way' rides in Ireland. But there is no monopoly in Audacity, one meaning of which is 'bare faced cheek'.
but Kurt used a recumbent
This seems to me to be one of the key ingredients as to why we should give UMCA such little credibility.
The rule of being able to ride a recumbent bicycle was introduced after Steve had his 'off'. The fact that Hoppo seems to have had a controversial role in both Steve's camp and the UMCA camp points to the rules being amended on the fly to suit one particular rider. Of course this does not even scratch the surface when in 2014 Steve helped draft all the rules in the first place.
Kurt then used this rule change to his full advantage. In my opinion, this was most unfortunate - as it questioned the legitimacy of his putative record.
Compare this to Bruce's attempt. Instead of rules being changed to assist his attempt (recumbent), rules are being changed (prescribed manufacturer's kit) to hinder his attempt.
Guinness have previously stated they would have nothing to do with the Tommy Godwin record (I believe Steve raised it with them). Are you aware that there's been any change in that position?
... it is about petty compliance with buying one particular brand of data logger.No it isn't, it is about the "defensible wall" around the evidence. Anybody can without alerting Steve intercept him and verify it is he riding and he's not drafting a motorbike (just examples,not accusations). This is not the case with Bruce, his evidence is too easy to fake and he has proven he is unwilling to adhere to rules other than his own.
Good points.
The Spot thing is starting to feel like an application of a US requirement (as their mobile networks don't cover much of the country between cities) to other countries where there is not the same need.
Guinness have previously stated they would have nothing to do with the Tommy Godwin record (I believe Steve raised it with them). Are you aware that there's been any change in that position?
Surely the fact that they are interested in ratifying Kajsa is a significant change in position.
Guinness have previously stated they would have nothing to do with the Tommy Godwin record (I believe Steve raised it with them). Are you aware that there's been any change in that position?
Surely the fact that they are interested in ratifying Kajsa is a significant change in position.
It's been stated that Guinness believe that the Tommy Godwin record is too dangerous to attempt to break.
Maybe they don't think the female version is too dangerous as it does not require riding so much per day.
Guinness have previously stated they would have nothing to do with the Tommy Godwin record (I believe Steve raised it with them). Are you aware that there's been any change in that position?
Surely the fact that they are interested in ratifying Kajsa is a significant change in position.
I got the impression that the preliminaries and rules with Guinness were rather more onerous than with UMCA, and most definitely needed sorting in advance.
I got the impression that the preliminaries and rules with Guinness were rather more onerous than with UMCA, and most definitely needed sorting in advance.
I also got that impression, but Kajsa stated the opposite.
so now we have two male riders riding a year's highest mileage for their own pleasure? :)
i've ridden an audax in the past where i forgot to send the card with receipts to the organiser after finishing it. did i do that ride? i have the card, receipts and gps track to prove! ;D
but Kurt used a recumbent
This seems to me to be one of the key ingredients as to why we should give UMCA such little credibility.
The rule of being able to ride a recumbent bicycle was introduced after Steve had his 'off'. The fact that Hoppo seems to have had a controversial role in both Steve's camp and the UMCA camp points to the rules being amended on the fly to suit one particular rider. Of course this does not even scratch the surface when in 2014 Steve helped draft all the rules in the first place.
Kurt then used this rule change to his full advantage. In my opinion, this was most unfortunate - as it questioned the legitimacy of his putative record.
Compare this to Bruce's attempt. Instead of rules being changed to assist his attempt (recumbent), rules are being changed (prescribed manufacturer's kit) to hinder his attempt.
Guinness have previously stated they would have nothing to do with the Tommy Godwin record (I believe Steve raised it with them). Are you aware that there's been any change in that position?
Surely the fact that they are interested in ratifying Kajsa is a significant change in position.
It's been stated that Guinness believe that the Tommy Godwin record is too dangerous to attempt to break.
Maybe they don't think the female version is too dangerous as it does not require riding so much per day.
I got the impression that the preliminaries and rules with Guinness were rather more onerous than with UMCA, and most definitely needed sorting in advance.
I also got that impression, but Kajsa stated the opposite.
Really? It was from Kajsa's blog (I think!) that I got that impression!
As I saw Steve off last year, I thought it would be fun to ride out and see Kajsa off on her year yesterday.
...
Had a nice long chat with her
...
It was interesting to hear the reasons behind the choice of Guinness as the body for authentication rather than the UMCA. In a nutshell its down to the global recognition that Guinness brings to the process, along with the fact that they were nicer to deal with than the UMCA apparently, oh and free!
Good points.
The Spot thing is starting to feel like an application of a US requirement (as their mobile networks don't cover much of the country between cities) to other countries where there is not the same need.
The UMCA stated that their objection to the tracking solutions Bruce offered was that they needed a subscription of some sort to be viewed, and weren't available for anyone to view. Those seem like reasonable objections to me. Reliability may have been an issue, but I'm sure there are other solutions acceptable to UMCA. It's just that SPOT is a proven system which both the UMCA and the other participants have learned to use - and to accommodate its idiosyncrasies - and to which we have all had access if we wished.
Please be aware that you still also need to sign up for Spot tracker, per my previous email, pasted here for reference:
You definitely need to get the Spot tracker for the following reasons.
1. Spot will allow open access. Any neutral observer can go to the Spot website and track your rides, as opposed to the Find My Friends app which requires a friend request to be approved. Spot will serve the fan base of ultracycling better as well as serve you better; once your attempt begins, you do not need to spend any time approving friend requests for the live tracker, nor should the ultracycling fan base need to wait for approval. Even as simple as the process may be, we do not want to deter observers in the least.
There appears so much hearsay about this record, as is evidence in these threads, and I believe citizenfish has mentioned of no account of Guinness stating the record is too dangerous.
Shame that Bruce seems to have burnt his bridges with the UMCA.
I don't think that at all. I'm sure they'd welcome a subsequent application for HAM'R as long as he complied with the rules and got his membership sorted.
The UMCA Board wishes Bruce Berkeley well in his attempt, but UMCA will not certify the attempt and will not verify mileage for the attempt.
What are the alternatives to SPOT trackers?
but Kurt used a recumbent
This seems to me to be one of the key ingredients as to why we should give UMCA such little credibility.
The rule of being able to ride a recumbent bicycle was introduced after Steve had his 'off'. The fact that Hoppo seems to have had a controversial role in both Steve's camp and the UMCA camp points to the rules being amended on the fly to suit one particular rider. Of course this does not even scratch the surface when in 2014 Steve helped draft all the rules in the first place.
Kurt then used this rule change to his full advantage. In my opinion, this was most unfortunate - as it questioned the legitimacy of his putative record.
Compare this to Bruce's attempt. Instead of rules being changed to assist his attempt (recumbent), rules are being changed (prescribed manufacturer's kit) to hinder his attempt.
A few years back another guy approached me having decided to take the record on. I was extremely cynical as he had done about zero riding before, but he approached Guinness for some terms and here is an excerpt. Have a good laugh at this and then ask yourself "do you really want these people involved in the year record verification"?
[...]
Have a good laugh at this and then ask yourself "do you really want these people involved in the year record verification"?
Snip
It mentions nothing about leap years.
Good luck to him, he's clearly a strong rider. I do wonder though just how long he can keep this up with the current low budget solo approach, with no support, coach surfing, etc. I shall be interested to find out in the months to come.
A few years back another guy approached me having decided to take the record on. I was extremely cynical as he had done about zero riding before, but he approached Guinness for some terms and here is an excerpt. Have a good laugh at this and then ask yourself "do you really want these people involved in the year record verification"?
[...]
That's great. I can picture the scene:
~~~~~~~~
A few years back...
Support team chief: Mr McWhirter, McWhirter! We've finished our record attempt!
N.McW: Ah good. How's your rider?
STC: A little dizzy.
STC: Anyway, here's the filmed evidence of the attempt for you to verify. *Hands over a large box of video tapes*. The other 6 lorries of video tapes are parked outside.
TG 6 June 2013
Guinness pretty much refuse to reckognise any attempt at the record. The only way they would validate it would be if someone did it on a velodrome while being watched by someone in person.
TG 7 June 2013
Guinness are corrupt because they charge about £1000 per claim, which rules out anyone from poor countries making a claim. The LEJOG record is still held by Andy Wilkinson (1991) according to Guinness. Gethin Butler took almost an hour off it in 2001. It was all observed and checked by the same people (RRA) so the RRA records are correct.
It's not just having someone there as witness to satisfy them either, they have their own critria about altitude gain and stuff which would instantly rule out riding on the open road.
If I do it I'll do it because it's something I want to do.
I am pleased that UMCA have released that information (is there a link to that? Edit - I see it on their facebook page). It strikes me that they possibly did not release it earlier out of respect for Bruce. Now they have, he does appear to be the twuntish one.
Such a shame to see an attempt go to waste over such minor issues as paying a $35 membership fee and buying a £200-250 (including the annual fee) tracker.
No matter what he does now, he will only ever be a footnote in the second edition of Citizenfish's book.
It is very sad. The guy clearly has the contacts to get hold of £5k+ bikes from canyon etc., but can't/won't pay out modest sums to become compliant with the requirements.
What a mess.
<not entirely serious> From what I read elsewhere, if he can get any sort of bike out of Canyon, he's got superhuman powers</not entirely serious>
Anecdata time.....<not entirely serious> From what I read elsewhere, if he can get any sort of bike out of Canyon, he's got superhuman powers</not entirely serious>
Indeed. I was toying with the idea of buying a new piece of bling but was put off Canyon by the stories of 6-month waits or longer.
Anecdata time.....<not entirely serious> From what I read elsewhere, if he can get any sort of bike out of Canyon, he's got superhuman powers</not entirely serious>
Indeed. I was toying with the idea of buying a new piece of bling but was put off Canyon by the stories of 6-month waits or longer.
My manager's company credit card (which 6 of us in this office avail ourselves of for the purchase of flights, hotels etc) was compromised last year to the tune of several £K on a spending spree at Canyon. All eyes in the office turned to me at that point.....
Anecdata time.....<not entirely serious> From what I read elsewhere, if he can get any sort of bike out of Canyon, he's got superhuman powers</not entirely serious>
Indeed. I was toying with the idea of buying a new piece of bling but was put off Canyon by the stories of 6-month waits or longer.
My manager's company credit card (which 6 of us in this office avail ourselves of for the purchase of flights, hotels etc) was compromised last year to the tune of several £K on a spending spree at Canyon. All eyes in the office turned to me at that point.....
;D With good cause presumably?
PS. It as been said above that it would be "easy" to falsify a .gpx file. That's true, but I think it would be quite hard to falsify one convincingly.
PS. It as been said above that it would be "easy" to falsify a .gpx file. That's true, but I think it would be quite hard to falsify one convincingly.
Easy is relative. I guarantee that I have more chance of convincingly falsifying the GPX tracks than I would of riding 29000 miles in a year.
Think about it: You cook up some software to generate pseudorandom tracks (complete with HR data that mimics your own under similar conditions) on pre-determined routes. Then spend a while hand-crafting some routes, complete with weather fudge-factor, random stoppages, deviations for hedge inspections and so on. Probably day-by day to allow for real-world conditions.
It's work, but a couple of orders of magnitude less work than going out and riding it all would be.
Of course for authenticity you want to be seen to do some actual riding. So your algorithm needs to be reasonably consistent with the real data generated by that (or your riding needs to be consistent with the fake data generated by your software). Which means you need plenty of testing, and a database of equivalent style rides to work with. It's not something you'd hack up the week before the attempt and expect to work.
Live tracking is harder. To fake it convincingly you need to use a commercial system like SPOT that won't arouse suspicion, which probably means reverse-engineering their hardware to inject your fake GPS signal. Doable, I'm sure, but that means more dev time.
And you need to not be caught out by being provably somewhere else when you're supposed to be slogging into the fenland hair-drier or depleting the Marsh Gibbon Premier Inn of CAKE reserves. That's not trivial, and combined with the above probably represents a similar level of commitment to actually going out and riding the thing.
The question is: Why bother? As a hacking exercise, to show that it can be done, sure. But it's effort that would better be put into, say, developing a more secure tracking system. To convince the world that you've beaten a record, and then keep schtum? Where's the glory in that?
Further to Kim post with which I entirely agree it ought to be easier to fake power readings than HR. OTOH fake power might be easier to spot.
Anyway, maybe this sub-discussion needs to be split off from Bruce's thread. I wouldn't want anyone to get any suggestion that Bruce could be involved in anything like this.
Anyway, maybe this sub-discussion needs to be split off from Bruce's thread. I wouldn't want anyone to get any suggestion that Bruce could be involved in anything like this.
Agreed.
I think that misses the point. Fanbase = observers = verification.
Who do you suggest as an alternative?I think that misses the point. Fanbase = observers = verification.
My point was that he refers to the ultracycling fanbase. The UMCA is a bit of a latecomer to the field of long-distance cycling. There's no reason for it to be seen as the sole arbiter.
Who do you suggest as an alternative?I think that misses the point. Fanbase = observers = verification.
My point was that he refers to the ultracycling fanbase. The UMCA is a bit of a latecomer to the field of long-distance cycling. There's no reason for it to be seen as the sole arbiter.
Who do you suggest as an alternative?I think that misses the point. Fanbase = observers = verification.
My point was that he refers to the ultracycling fanbase. The UMCA is a bit of a latecomer to the field of long-distance cycling. There's no reason for it to be seen as the sole arbiter.
I'm not sure there needs to be one. Steve's Audax record was accepted with the usual proof, which is essentially the same as Tommy Godwin's.
There is a widespread misconception – and we will hold our hands up and acknowledge that it is one that we at road.cc have on occasion repeated – that Guinness World Records would not recognise a fresh attempt on Godwin’s record because of the physical demands involved.
But as Abraham says in this post [http://oneyeartimetrial.org.uk/tommy-godwin] on his website, that is a “myth.”
Berkeley is already a holder of two Guinness World Records – for the greatest distances cycled in a week and in a month, set respectively in 2014 and 2015.
We have spoken to Guinness World Records to seek confirmation that they are indeed certifying Berkeley’s record attempt with effect from 1 January 2016, and will update this story once we have their response.
ridiculous set of rules from Guinness
Bruce rode his month last January to lots of Strava kudos.
Yes, according to Guinness it's Davidson that's the record holder.
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/118987-farthest-distance-cycled-in-one-month
Maybe someone would like to comment on the road.cc article to that effect?
Cannot see no mention of this elsewhere here, apologies if already posted:-
<snip>.
Yes, according to Guinness it's Davidson that's the record holder.
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/118987-farthest-distance-cycled-in-one-month
Maybe someone would like to comment on the road.cc article to that effect?
No-one knows how volatile internet media are. Strava kudos may evaporate at some point, and the record books will live on.I love the voice over on the news reel "No wonder she wins races, she has to get back and catch up with the house work."
I'm surprised that there's no Pathe News footage of Tommy Godwin. They seemed fixated on women professionals, so Eileen Sheridan puts in a couple of appearances, most memorably in this piece. http://www.britishpathe.com/video/housewife-cyclist/query/Eileen+Sheridan
Place to Place records became unfashionable for most. I still like them, and Eileen still has a few, 60 years later.
http://www.rra.org.uk/records%20place%20to%20place.html
Yes, according to Guinness it's Davidson that's the record holder.
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/118987-farthest-distance-cycled-in-one-month
Maybe someone would like to comment on the road.cc article to that effect?
It's Davison, and it was done yesterday.
No-one knows how volatile internet media are. Strava kudos may evaporate at some point, and the record books will live on.
I'm surprised that there's no Pathe News footage of Tommy Godwin. They seemed fixated on women professionals, so Eileen Sheridan puts in a couple of appearances, most memorably in this piece. http://www.britishpathe.com/video/housewife-cyclist/query/Eileen+Sheridan
Place to Place records became unfashionable for most. I still like them, and Eileen still has a few, 60 years later.
http://www.rra.org.uk/records%20place%20to%20place.html
Yes, it was done on Road.cc yesterday by both me and Aidan on different threads.
Aidan's appears under that article, posted 2 hours ago apparently. If yours is there too, it doesn't mention Davison nor Bruce's lack of any public verification of "his" records...
Aidan's appears under that article, posted 2 hours ago apparently. If yours is there too, it doesn't mention Davison nor Bruce's lack of any public verification of "his" records...
Yes, it does. See the link above. Aidan's is in the thread that reports Bruce's attempt being under Guinness mine is, as I said, on the thread that reports his DQ by UMCA. They are different threads
Guinness are now certifying Bruce's year record attempt
http://road.cc/content/news/175956-bruce-berkeley-says-guinness-world-records-certifying-his-year-record-attempt
no drafting is allowed. (I think?)
Indeed. I am a bit baffled about how Guinness could be verifying his attempt given that for Kajsa's attempt, no drafting is allowed. (I think?) Bruce has posted plenty of pictures of drafting pro teams. Surely this means a restart then? I wonder whether he has looked into the Guinness rules any better than he did the UMCA rules?
Someone said that Kasja may have posted the Guinness info pack on her site or blog somewhere, haven't had a chance to check. That may contain the answers to some of the questions here rather than constant speculation.
No-one knows how volatile internet media are. Strava kudos may evaporate at some point, and the record books will live on.
I'm surprised that there's no Pathe News footage of Tommy Godwin. They seemed fixated on women professionals, so Eileen Sheridan puts in a couple of appearances, most memorably in this piece. http://www.britishpathe.com/video/housewife-cyclist/query/Eileen+Sheridan
Place to Place records became unfashionable for most. I still like them, and Eileen still has a few, 60 years later.
http://www.rra.org.uk/records%20place%20to%20place.html
Yes, these records, while they may seem 'parochial' in comparison to the globe trotting antics celebrated in the media nowadays, are still impressive. Plenty of scope for female riders to take on some challenges I would think... Maybe some fast audaxers or triathletes who would take on the male solo records too? (Don't look at me BTW ;D)
It's been pointed out that he'd have done rather better to start at JOG! If this were an RRA record, he'd have been allowed to start at any point on the route. I don't know what Guinness say about doing that.
Thinking about it, I think Ben Rockett just turned up, rode and then claimed to have the record, rather than getting it validated by Guinness. Does this mean that Hoppo could claim to be the Guinness record holder even if he finishes in over 5 days 21 hours?
Possibly.
I have heard that Guinness now charge £1000 per record claim.
I did check the LE-JOG record in a Guinness Book of Records after Gethin Butler's record ride in 2001. It was talking about that ride with people who were involved when I heard of the £1000 fee. When I checked the book, it still had Wilko's ride as the record.
Hoppo seems to be very good at gaining sponsorship.
No-one knows how volatile internet media are. Strava kudos may evaporate at some point, and the record books will live on.
I'm surprised that there's no Pathe News footage of Tommy Godwin. They seemed fixated on women professionals, so Eileen Sheridan puts in a couple of appearances, most memorably in this piece. http://www.britishpathe.com/video/housewife-cyclist/query/Eileen+Sheridan
Place to Place records became unfashionable for most. I still like them, and Eileen still has a few, 60 years later.
http://www.rra.org.uk/records%20place%20to%20place.html
Yes, these records, while they may seem 'parochial' in comparison to the globe trotting antics celebrated in the media nowadays, are still impressive. Plenty of scope for female riders to take on some challenges I would think... Maybe some fast audaxers or triathletes who would take on the male solo records too? (Don't look at me BTW ;D)
These are the records that get reported in the papers, as when James Cracknell had a couple of attempts at the LEJOG. The Daily Mirror reported the new tandem record last year, under 'Weird News', which is the heading Steve was under. It seems to be where they put world records. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/british-pair-smash-tandem-world-5654858
Bruce had a couple of attempts at the LEJOGLE, which lacks RRA status and is a bit of a 'Look at Me' record.
No-one knows how volatile internet media are. Strava kudos may evaporate at some point, and the record books will live on.
I'm surprised that there's no Pathe News footage of Tommy Godwin. They seemed fixated on women professionals, so Eileen Sheridan puts in a couple of appearances, most memorably in this piece. http://www.britishpathe.com/video/housewife-cyclist/query/Eileen+Sheridan
Place to Place records became unfashionable for most. I still like them, and Eileen still has a few, 60 years later.
http://www.rra.org.uk/records%20place%20to%20place.html
Yes, these records, while they may seem 'parochial' in comparison to the globe trotting antics celebrated in the media nowadays, are still impressive. Plenty of scope for female riders to take on some challenges I would think... Maybe some fast audaxers or triathletes who would take on the male solo records too? (Don't look at me BTW ;D)
These are the records that get reported in the papers, as when James Cracknell had a couple of attempts at the LEJOG. The Daily Mirror reported the new tandem record last year, under 'Weird News', which is the heading Steve was under. It seems to be where they put world records. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/british-pair-smash-tandem-world-5654858
Bruce had a couple of attempts at the LEJOGLE, which lacks RRA status and is a bit of a 'Look at Me' record.
Bruce's records all seem to have an element of that. Maybe he thinks that in today's "attention economy", getting eyeballs on cycling web site reports / Strava is all that matters?
It is rather curious his attitude towards bodies who would verify his attempts so they become actual records rather than just alleged world beating triumphs (according to Bruce and a few poorly researched articles).
There are several annual mass participation cycle rides that go from Land's End to John O'Groats, the biggest of which is the Deloitte Ride Across Britain,[5] run by Threshold Sports. The Ride Across Britain takes over 800 riders the full length of Britain, taking 9 days and covering 969 miles (1,559 km), with each rider covering an average of 107 miles (172 km) per day. Overnight accommodation is provided in large, tented base camps, and all aspects of the ride are fully supported. Previous celebrity participants include GB rower and Olympic gold medallist James Cracknell and former England Rugby captain Lewis Moody.
The official Road Records Association record for rider on a conventional bicycle is 44 hours, 4 minutes and 20 seconds, set by Gethin Butler in 2001.[6] The record for cycling from Land's End to John o' Groats is held by Andy Wilkinson, who completed the journey in 41 hours, 4 minutes and 22 seconds on a Windcheetah recumbent tricycle.[7] A typical cycling time when not attempting shortest time is ten to fourteen days.
Ben Rockett, a postgraduate student from the University of Bath became on 27 August 2010 the record holder for cycling from Land's End to John o' Groats and back again in 5 days, 21 hours and 8 minutes.
8] From 1 to 4 March 2010, David Walliams, Jimmy Carr, Fearne Cotton, Miranda Hart, Patrick Kielty, Davina McCall and Russell Howard cycled in a team relay from John o' Groats to Land's End to raise money for Sport Relief.[9]
No-one knows how volatile internet media are. Strava kudos may evaporate at some point, and the record books will live on.
I'm surprised that there's no Pathe News footage of Tommy Godwin. They seemed fixated on women professionals, so Eileen Sheridan puts in a couple of appearances, most memorably in this piece. http://www.britishpathe.com/video/housewife-cyclist/query/Eileen+Sheridan
Place to Place records became unfashionable for most. I still like them, and Eileen still has a few, 60 years later.
http://www.rra.org.uk/records%20place%20to%20place.html
Yes, these records, while they may seem 'parochial' in comparison to the globe trotting antics celebrated in the media nowadays, are still impressive. Plenty of scope for female riders to take on some challenges I would think... Maybe some fast audaxers or triathletes who would take on the male solo records too? (Don't look at me BTW ;D)
These are the records that get reported in the papers, as when James Cracknell had a couple of attempts at the LEJOG. The Daily Mirror reported the new tandem record last year, under 'Weird News', which is the heading Steve was under. It seems to be where they put world records. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/british-pair-smash-tandem-world-5654858
Bruce had a couple of attempts at the LEJOGLE, which lacks RRA status and is a bit of a 'Look at Me' record.
From Bruce's FB:
[...]
Not saying he's right, but I think there is a rationale there. Wait and see what Guiness say, I think...
FindMyFriends will not provide a retrievable track, just a current position for those who are connected via the Apple infrastructure and individually approved. It's a good system, but unsuitable as an independent verification of a GPS track, I believe. Strava Live Tracking applies to any Premium member, and can be seen by anyone following that athlete, so the security aspect is, at best, debatable (Bruce's Strava account is open to anyone to follow) - and, of course, it uses the same source as the recorded Strava track, so again is probably unacceptable.
I'm still intrigued by the Guinness reference; it would now appear that he already had Guinness validating the attempt before he approached UMCA. Assuming that's for real (and, as his Week and Month 'records' have still not appeared on the Guinness site, I have my doubts), why bother with UMCA?
As to Guinness, until we see some evidence they've verified his prior efforts I remain sceptical. It would however explain his apparent dismissal of UMCA in the correspondence that's been made public.
FindMyFriends will not provide a retrievable track, just a current position for those who are connected via the Apple infrastructure and individually approved. It's a good system, but unsuitable as an independent verification of a GPS track, I believe. Strava Live Tracking applies to any Premium member, and can be seen by anyone following that athlete, so the security aspect is, at best, debatable (Bruce's Strava account is open to anyone to follow) - and, of course, it uses the same source as the recorded Strava track, so again is probably unacceptable.
The Strava's Active Friends feature should respect his privacy zones though, but it doesn't provide a log, and it's public (hmm, may not be, I can't find it and I'm not a Premium member). I don't think the source being Strava (the same as the recording tool) is a problem. It's the lack of the log that is the main problem (to UMCA) and the lack of privacy (for Bruce).
Bruce also seems unaware that he could turn the SPOT tracker off when not riding, and/or only turn it on when far enough away from his home. It's a bit of a faff though I agree and easily forgotten.
His rides on Garmin Connect are giving away his base location anyway (as he has no privacy zones setup there), but not in real time.
Regardless of the technology used Bruce doesn't want the public to be able to see where is in (near) real time, and I think the UMCA require that. So unless one budges they'll never be able to work it out.
Perhaps we could reverse-engineer the whole process by starting with the book and working backwards. We'll need a fightback from alcoholism, and a marital breakdown. Is a recovery from a near-fatal episode going too far?
I have a spot tracker on permanently, it turns off automatically once stationary for 30 mins and auto starts on the next movement. You can set privacy zones on tracking pages you set up, there is no need to involve Trackleaders. The batteries last for up to 2 weeks at 16 hrs a day activity. It's not that difficult.
I'm thinking why not just claim a Guinness world record without any proof it exists except Strava. The on line cycling press are willing to jump in and print it, the general public believe this as gospel and you claim you'r a world record holder.
Like this one http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/yorkshireman-richard-nutt-breaks-world-seven-day-distance-record-175854
Guinness don't seem to contest anyone's claims and their website is not the easiest to navigate to search for lists of record holders.
Kurt Searvogel replied on Bruce's Facebook Comment.
Keep going with your attempt! I'm sorry that you couldn't work it out with UMCA as I was the person that asked you to do this and you tried. Thank you. As stated in the UMCA announcement the phone app was a problem since it doesn't provide a history to compare against your garmin which is used to verify your route. Your explanation of fear for safety or property is not really valid, both Steven Abraham and I did it without a problem. People will watch out for you if you let them. BTW how are you able to keep up with all of Guiness's reporting requirements, or were you able to get them to modify them for the month record. Also you should see if you can concurrently do a new month record because you will be averaging 1000K more each month than your current record, no reason not to put the miles to work twice. I do fear that if you felt these costs were high and didn't have time to handle these tasks or have someone to help you do these things that you neither have the funds nor support necessary to complete this challenge. I believe there are enough people out there who would support you and help you raise funds. At some point you need to let go of your pride and let people help you. It may have been the hardest part of HAMR for me.
Kurt Searvogel replied on Bruce's Facebook Comment.
On Sunday 17 March 1940 Hawkins, only 12 months into her cycling career, set the 'World Seven Days record' in Perth, having ridden 1,546.8 miles (2,489.3 km) to surpass the previous best (1,438.4 miles (2,314.9 km)) set by Unthank. Hawkins also broke the West Australian records for one, two, three, four, five, six and seven days, plus surpassing the Australian professional men's record of Ossie Nicholson. Hawkins completed the ride in front of a huge crowd outside the Malvern Star headquarters in Hay Street and was greeted by H. Millington, Minister for Works. Unthank sent her public messages of congratulations.
In February 1942 Hawkins completed a 45,402.8 miles (73,068.7 km) ride in Perth, despite having missed seven weeks' riding because of injury, illness, and her mother's death. The press had reported throughout her 12-month campaign, comparing her milestones to those of the world record set by L.I. Billie Dovey, the English Keep Fit Girl. To wit, "after ten weeks [Hawkins] had recorded 7,302.8 miles (11,752.7 km) compared to Mrs Dovey's 5,238 miles (8,430 km)." Hawkins surpassed Dovey's record 29,899 miles (48,118 km) after 36 weeks, three days, one hour and 20 minutes and then raised the record by another 15,503 miles (24,950 km) over the final 16 weeks. The endeavour was sponsored by Bruce Small Pty Ltd. [3] [6] [7] [8]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Hawkins_(cyclist)
Dénouement[edit]
One week after Hawkins completed her ride, the officials refused to recognise the record due to 'irregularities in the log sheets'.[9]
Marion Stell wrote in her book Half the Race, A history of Australian women in sport of the anonymous reality that followed the excitement of the record.
One woman oblivious to part of the war was cyclist Pat Hawkins of Perth. From February 1941 to February 1942 Hawkins made an attempt on the year's cycling world record of 29 603 miles held by Mrs Bill Dovey of England. Hawkins was only off the road for seven weeks of the twelve-month period and claimed a distance of 45,402 miles. But one week later supervising officials found what they called 'certain irregularities in Miss Hawkin's log sheets' and refused to recognise the record. One wonders if she ever rode a bicycle again.[10]
Australia did not appear to dwell on the loss of the record, nor even mention it; only a couple of newspapers appear to have referred to it: a single paragraph in the Army News of Darwin[9] while The Cairns Post stated that A signed statement admitting the irregularities has been handed to the committee and sponsors of the effort by Miss Hawkins.[11]
Can anyone list the exact requirements for Guinness certification? There seems to be lots of conjecture re: what they require. What were the rules on Janet Davison?
In some ways it isn’t so surprising that Guinness who administer the world records take this seriously. After all, the whole world record concept would lose credibility if it was possible to cheat. The main evidence I have to provide is a file containing my route downloaded from my Garmin (cycling GPS) and converted into a standard file format. This is absolutely essential, so to ensure I can comply with this I take with me a second Garmin and have access to a third at home if one of the two Garmins fail. This proves where the GPS has been, but this could be me being driven round in a car! To be certain I am cycling I provide video and photographic evidence of me with my bike from various points on the route such as town signs. I also have to keep an old fashioned paper log in which people I meet on the way sign to confirm they have seen me cycling. This is why you will see from previous blogs I am referencing various bike shops and other businesses I have visited. I video all of these encounters, to provide confirmatory evidence. I have also got kind neighbours who are videoing/photographing me setting off and returning every day.
I have to compile my own log of where I have been and who I have met so that if questioned I can personally substantiate where I have been and who I have met on every day. This needs to be absolutely consistent with all my other records.
It all takes me about an hour every night to compile the daily evidence and load it onto Dropbox, then do another backup. This allows my two independent scrutineers to check the evidence. At the end of the ride they will need to confirm the authenticity of my record claim. Everything then gets submitted to Guinness who will conduct their own review of the evidence for the record, checking that I have complied with the rules (more on that in a later blog) and the evidence backs up the record claim. This review is likely to take a few months, and no doubt they will contact some of the people who have signed my logbook.
Whilst compiling the evidence is a chore, especially when I would prefer to be cycling or sleeping, I am pleased this is taken seriously. I must admit to a little paranoia about failing to collect sufficient evidence or forgetting to switch on my Garmin when I set off. I think the greatest risk of me having an accident at the moment is when I'm videoing myself whilst I'm cycling.
Apart from the need to collect evidence to authenticate my record that I described in a previous blog, there are a few rules that Guinness require me to comply with. Some are obvious others less so.
I am not allowed to slipstream or get any other physical aid from anyone else. This is pretty obvious when you think about it. I could simply have a team of ‘lead cyclists’ and sit on their back wheel all day. Slipstreaming requires about 20% less effort than being the lead cyclist. It is the reason breakaways in bike races such as the Tour succeed so rarely. So when I am riding with my super domestique he is hardly putting in any effort and I am doing all the work.
I have to start and finish the event at the same height. In other words I can’t go to the top of a mountain every morning and coast down for 20km or so, and repeat this numerous times in the day and every day. For me this really means I have to start and end the ride at home to avoid getting caught out with an overall net downhill ride.
I have to use the same bike throughout the attempt. I can only change bikes if I provide photographic and video evidence that the bike is not rideable. I can replace components on the bike at any stage, so this really means using the same frame. I must admit I am not too sure of the reason for this, but who am I to argue?
I have to get the written authority from Guinness in advance if I intend to get sponsorship or provide advertising for any other alcoholic brand. Obvious really!
Bruce is an ex-Elite racer, as he keeps telling us. Bluffing is a big part of the job description. He's no more ratified by Guinness than he is Eddy Merckx
Bruce is an ex-Elite racer, as he keeps telling us. Bluffing is a big part of the job description. He's no more ratified by Guinness than he is Eddy Merckx
Indeed.
Is this the same David Berkeley from 2003? Are these "elite" races? I haven't the foggiest, but I don't see le Tour, la Vuelta, la Giro, the Tour of Britain, or owt like that.
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/points?person_id=28236&d=4&year=2003
'Elite' is a racing category, isn't it? I've no idea what it takes to achieve that, but I'm prepared to believe he qualified for it - I understand he raced as a professional for Sigma Sport, which I guess would have required an Elite cat. He may not have set the world alight as a racer, but he did do it!
Anyone familiar with power data goes by this spreadsheet
http://cyclingtips.com/2009/07/just-how-good-are-these-guys/
Anyone familiar with power data goes by this spreadsheet
http://cyclingtips.com/2009/07/just-how-good-are-these-guys/
Yeah, so maybe it's been mentioned upthread or somewhere else, but what is Mr. Berkeley's power output?
How was Tommy Godwins record ratified?Who was the 'governing' body that monitored it?
If someone wants to ride 200+ miles a day and log it on Strava for 12 months, then I'm interested in following them and seeing what they churn out over the year. If they want to stick 2 fingers up to all the organisations that say you need to do this in our way then I'm even more interested.
How was Tommy Godwins record ratified?Who was the 'governing' body that monitored it?That approach doesn't mesh very well with claiming you have two world records when you know damn well that other people have (under documented conditions) beaten them.
If someone wants to ride 200+ miles a day and log it on Strava for 12 months, then I'm interested in following them and seeing what they churn out over the year. If they want to stick 2 fingers up to all the organisations that say you need to do this in our way then I'm even more interested.
How was Tommy Godwins record ratified?Who was the 'governing' body that monitored it?
If someone wants to ride 200+ miles a day and log it on Strava for 12 months, then I'm interested in following them and seeing what they churn out over the year. If they want to stick 2 fingers up to all the organisations that say you need to do this in our way then I'm even more interested.
I preferred Obree to Boardman and Ovett to Coe
Keep on trucking Bruce and don't let the bastards grind you down.
let's say Bruce carries on independently and breaks the record with 78,000 miles. let's say another rider decides to have a go in the future with either guiness or umca and manages 77,000 miles - would he be considered a record holder? in the official books - yes, but it's not a true highest mileage record as Bruce would have done more miles, even if without the "official" approval.
let's say Bruce ...
How can one win a race if they are not entered?
yes, there are many ways to cheat, but the way Bruce rides at the moment i have full respect and admiration of his physical and mental ability. he's not using (afaik) tri-bars, which makes riding such distances so much harder - due to aero disadvantage and increased pressure on hands - this is how Tommy did the record too. plus, he currently rides almost self-sufficiently without a support team around. too early to forecast, but i wish him all the best and looking forward to sharing some miles when he's back in the uk.
the above is not to say that i agree with Bruce's decision to do it his own independent way; i'd prefer he's gone through "agency" for the sake of "official" approval.
Tribars aren't something you can just put on your bike and ride faster.I guess you are thinking of the level of adaption required when using them for long periods.
Tribars aren't something you can just put on your bike and ride faster.I guess you are thinking of the level of adaption required when using them for long periods.
not suggesting anything, i have my personal opinion about things. use of tribars is one of the quick-wins and i'm surprised Bruce isn't taking this advantage. the attempts will be always difficult to compare unless they are done under the exact same conditions and circumstances. if Bruce does the highest mileage (without taking a mick!!) any subsequent attempt will have to look up to that mileage.
Tribars aren't something you can just put on your bike and ride faster.
not suggesting anything, i have my personal opinion about things. use of tribars is one of the quick-wins and i'm surprised Bruce isn't taking this advantage. the attempts will be always difficult to compare unless they are done under the exact same conditions and circumstances. if Bruce does the highest mileage (without taking a mick!!) any subsequent attempt will have to look up to that mileage.
As Bruce has trumpeted the fact of riding with Team Sky and others already (and I'll bet he wasn't on the front), I doubt he feels the need for any other aerodynamic assistance - and you can't ride tri-bars in a group.
Each rider has taken steps within the rules (for a certain value of rules, in Bruce's case) to adapt their bikes and riding to the conditions they face and the way they wish to ride. Of the three, Steve has given himself the hardest task by choosing to ride in UK through the winter, as Kurt acknowledged directly, and as Bruce is acknowledging by being in Australia and avoiding the problem altogether. The fact that Steve used tri-bars is neither here nor there.
The CTC has a history of muddying the waters for its members .
Tribars aren't something you can just put on your bike and ride faster.I guess you are thinking of the level of adaption required when using them for long periods.
That, plus it requires other position changes. I tried just putting tri bars on my audax fixie for riding a 12h TT and it caused big comfort issues when I tried it out. Solved by a set forward seat post but this resulted in a very odd position when on the hoods or drops.
for me one rule that trumps them all is to ride your bike as far as possible in 365 days with honesty and integrity. it is ambiguous, but sufficient.Difficult to verify, there is a history of people faking it, and (more recently) a history of people making mistakes and recording the wrong distances (this happened to both Miles and Kurt).
Oh dear, CTC have managed to not read the road.cc article properly!
for me one rule that trumps them all is to ride your bike as far as possible in 365 days with honesty and integrity. it is ambiguous, but sufficient.Difficult to verify, there is a history of people faking it, and (more recently) a history of people making mistakes and recording the wrong distances (this happened to both Miles and Kurt).
FFS, what is so hard about getting a SPOT tracker and using it?
regarding faking - i don't see Bruce as someone who would be doing it (unless i'm proven otherwise)
regarding faking - i don't see Bruce as someone who would be doing it (unless i'm proven otherwise)
I don't think anyone has ever suggested he would fake his results. But having a different set of validation rules depending on whether the competitor is seen as trustworthy or not clearly wouldn't work. As with almost all records, relying on a third party to remove (or at least reduce) doubts about the authenticity of an achievement seems a better solution.
Records are funny things. There are plenty of stories of TT records being broken in club events. Chris Boardman was reported breaking the 10 record prior to his 1994 TdF debut. But those aren't records, they're training runs for events that are properly recorded.
The club event records are anecdotal, and to me Strava is a digital anecdote.
Oh dear, another CTC-bashing outbreak ...The CTC has a history of muddying the waters for its members .
Suffice to say I'm only a member for the insurance. ::-)
Oh dear, another CTC-bashing outbreak ...
Oh dear, another CTC-bashing outbreak ...The CTC has a history of muddying the waters for its members .
Suffice to say I'm only a member for the insurance. ::-)
Mistakes happen. Ive just read a UMCA statement about a Phil WhiteHORSE on Steves team, and the HAND-cycle that Steve used whilst setting his 2015 record!
Oh dear, another CTC-bashing outbreak ...The CTC has a history of muddying the waters for its members .
Suffice to say I'm only a member for the insurance. ::-)
Mistakes happen. Ive just read a UMCA statement about a Phil WhiteHORSE on Steves team, and the HAND-cycle that Steve used whilst setting his 2015 record!
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/archive/it-is-the-mercy-donald-crowhursts-log-17852&ved=0ahUKEwiLk5eO-r3KAhVIPxQKHTW1DfYQFggoMAQ&usg=AFQjCNHA94wgklRxfnLV5quDvxzVgQmcVQ
I'm not sure if the above will work, Google 'Donald Crowhurst'
If there's room for fakery......
Bruce's surname also misspelt in the Cycleclips snippet. Just how many errors can you pack in to 4 sentences.And your comment on the UMCA statement?
Bruce's surname also misspelt in the Cycleclips snippet. Just how many errors can you pack in to 4 sentences.And your comment on the UMCA statement?
I have to say, I find the explanation Bruce gave on Facebook really weird. https://www.facebook.com/bruce.berkeley.1/posts/938139236274121?pnref=story
All this moaning about the cost ($300 HAM'R fee, $30 UMCA memebership fee, $200 for the tracker) - given we are talking about a 12 month endeavour with no income earned and the need to feed yourself, these sums should really be small change. If someone finds it hard to finance these outlays, it may be worth rethinking the whole project.
..... and he says he is getting verification from Guiness ? Really is he? I have read about these rules and if the UCMA was hard they are even harder. Like no drafting?I have to say, I find the explanation Bruce gave on Facebook really weird. https://www.facebook.com/bruce.berkeley.1/posts/938139236274121?pnref=story
All this moaning about the cost ($300 HAM'R fee, $30 UMCA memebership fee, $200 for the tracker) - given we are talking about a 12 month endeavour with no income earned and the need to feed yourself, these sums should really be small change. If someone finds it hard to finance these outlays, it may be worth rethinking the whole project.
There are some staggeringly ill-informed comments on that post.
AIUI he's going to present his evidence (Strava uploads and a few photos a day mostly) to Guinness after the ride and ask them to recognise it as a record.
In much the same way that he did this for the week and month records which he has claimed but which aren't listed on Guinness' website at all.
Good luck to him if this is his plan.
From his Twitter account he stated '3 weeks down - 301km up on target'[pedant]
Compared to Kurt's final daily average of 335.4km for 21 days Bruce has averaged 342.3 km resulting in him being 144.9 km up on Kurt after 21 days.
Compared to Tommy's final daily average of 331 km for 21 days Bruce has averaged 342.3 km resulting in him being 237.3 km up on Tommy after 21 days.
I'm sensing another Miles TBH, albeit one who is very good at riding a bike
Bruce said hello to me on PBP. He never mentioned he was going for the year record. He did look like a very strong rider though and I do wish him luck, regardless of his ride being official or not.
AIUI he's going to present his evidence (Strava uploads and a few photos a day mostly) to Guinness after the ride and ask them to recognise it as a record.
In much the same way that he did this for the week and month records which he has claimed but which aren't listed on Guinness' website at all.
Good luck to him if this is his plan.
Yeah, it's weird this rather delusional blind spot in his approach.
As others have said, it must take a certain, highly unusual, degree of downright stubbornness to take on this momentous challenge. In Mr. Berkeley this appears to manifest itself as a rather ego driven cussedness, a bombast that is ultimately self defeating. He clearly wants to be recognised as the record holder, but can't be bothered with following rules or doing the necessary admin in order to gain "official" recognition. As such, despite heroic efforts, if he does exceed Kurt's mileage his "record" will remain unofficial, even if it is "recognised" in the popular cycling press, and amongst Strava users.
Bruce said hello to me on PBP. He never mentioned he was going for the year record. He did look like a very strong rider though and I do wish him luck, regardless of his ride being official or not.
What was he doing at PBP? I can't find him in the results.
Bruce said hello to me on PBP. He never mentioned he was going for the year record. He did look like a very strong rider though and I do wish him luck, regardless of his ride being official or not.
What was he doing at PBP?
Bruce said hello to me on PBP. He never mentioned he was going for the year record. He did look like a very strong rider though and I do wish him luck, regardless of his ride being official or not.
What was he doing at PBP?
Riding a bike ?
Maybe there's twins, Bruce and Dave.
So which one is the ex-Elite Sigma Sport racer, Bruce or Dave?
He can have my medal if Wobbly doesn't want it to throw darts at.
Could simply be like my Dad. James Raymond Ferry, Always known as Ray, appears as James on all official forms.So which one is the ex-Elite Sigma Sport racer, Bruce or Dave?
British Cycling lists David...
Berkeley set off on his attempt on 1 January this year, and Guinness World Records confirmed to road.cc on Thursday that it will monitor his efforts.and
A spokesman told us: “Guinness World Records can confirm that they have received a record application from Bruce Berkeley for the greatest distance cycled in a year.
“We wish him the best of luck throughout his record attempt and look forward to receiving his evidence so we can verify his evidence in the near future.”
It had been reported here on road.cc and elsewhere that Berkeley already held Guinness World Records for the greatest distances cycled in a week and in a month.
That turns out to be incorrect
I registered this category with Guinness World Records early last year and have provided the guidelines below. I hope this answers everybody's queries.Bruce can challenge the drafting rule, I wonder if he is keeping a witness log? If not he's going to be down to just the GPS and the fact he doesn't have the week & month suggest that is not sufficient on their own.
Greatest distance cycled in a year (male)
Record definition
This record is for the greatest distance cycled within one year (365 days).
This is to be attempted by a male individual.
This record is measured in kilometres to the nearest 0.01 km, with the equivalent imperial measurement also given in miles.
Rules for Greatest distance cycled in a year
1. This record is for the greatest distance cycled within one year (365 days).
2. The same commercially available, unmodified bicycle must be used throughout the attempt. Repairs, such as tire replacement and chain replacement, etc. can be made but the frame must remain the same. If the bicycle is damaged beyond repair, video and photo evidence and an explanation of what happened must be submitted. It is up to Guinness World Records to decide if the reason is accepted.
3. Any route can be taken during the attempt.
4. There is no minimum daily distance but participant must cycle unaided.
5. The rider must ride for the complete year (365 days) from start to finish - i.e. should a rider not be able to go on for whatever reason, he/she may not be replaced.
6. The cyclist may be followed by a support vehicle but at no time between the start and finish of the journey may the participant or his/her bicycle be transported by this vehicle. If any of the support vehicles must travel in front of the cyclist they must be at least three vehicle lengths in front.
7. The entire journey must be tracked by an accurate, professional GPS device carried by the rider. As part of the evidence submitted, a printout of the GPS tracking data must be submitted. This must show the route taken, daily start and finish times, daily start and finish locations, and daily distances covered. .kml files must also be submitted.
8. Drafting: During the attempt, the challenger is not allowed the aid of drafting. If the challenger is travelling with a support vehicle or other rider(s), the challenger MUST remain a minimum distance of 5 bicycle lengths from the support vehicle or any other rider(s). The challenger must not travel next to the support vehicle or any other rider(s) throughout the attempt. If this rule is not followed, the challenger’s attempt will be disqualified.
9. A witness log book must be made available for independent witnesses to sign. The book should be set up so that each witness includes their name, the location, the date and time, their signature and their email address or phone number. For an attempt which is supported by a backup team, we would expect it to be possible to gain sufficient numbers of independent witnesses to enable verification for the entire duration of the attempt.
10. A log book should also be kept by the challenger. This is essentially a diary, and should include a) daily start and stop points; b) daily distance covered; c) any rest days taken; d) any notable occurrences during the attempt.
People are being harsh on Bruce. Calling him a conceited fantasist? Really? I feel the more everyone speculates on this forum the more nasty the tone becomes. We saw this with Steve attempt up until he called it off.
Road.cc have confirmed guinness are officiating Bruce's attempt, whether Bruce is ticking all the i's and crossing all the t's is absolutely irrelevant to anybody on this forum, as long you trust he is legitimately putting in the miles, what's it matter?
People are being harsh on Bruce. Calling him a conceited fantasist? Really? I feel the more everyone speculates on this forum the more nasty the tone becomes. We saw this with Steve attempt up until he called it off.
Road.cc have confirmed guinness are officiating Bruce's attempt, whether Bruce is ticking all the i's and crossing all the t's is absolutely irrelevant to anybody on this forum, as long you trust he is legitimately putting in the miles, what's it matter?
Without the verification required how can anyone trust he is putting in legitimate miles?
Remember to take a year off work or you'll be found out pretty quickly.
ure.
He's claimed, multiple times, to be the holder of 2 records. We know those claims to be untrue. I'm really unsure why he's made these claims; I'm pretty certain he did the rides, but the officiating body is saying 'no record'. That could be that they didn't accept his evidence, it could some other reason.
People are being harsh on Bruce. Calling him a conceited fantasist? Really? I feel the more everyone speculates on this forum the more nasty the tone becomes. We saw this with Steve attempt up until he called it off.
Road.cc have confirmed guinness are officiating Bruce's attempt, whether Bruce is ticking all the i's and crossing all the t's is absolutely irrelevant to anybody on this forum, as long you trust he is legitimately putting in the miles, what's it matter?
Without the verification required how can anyone trust he is putting in legitimate miles?
Verification to one means something else to another. Who is to what is ideal verification. He's using a garmin and must hold onto every single ride file from that garmin to be sent to Guinness.
I trust his rides until I have reason to believe otherwise. It his job to prove to Guinness at the end of the year, we don't know what records he's keeping other than he doesn't have a spot tracker.
You and any other who believe it is simple to make believable 200+ mile fake rides, with power data, go for it. Show us how easy it is, submit those rides to strava.
2 things from the quote from Sore Tween:
Rule number 2: The same bike must be used throughout the attempt - Kurt switched from upright to recumbent regularly
Rule number 8: Drafting - plenty of video coverage of Kurt drafting
So if Kurt's record has been accepted by Guinness then those 2 rules are null and void
My suspicion is that he has, or believes he has, beaten the records, but hasn't done any of the tedious paperwork.
2 things from the quote from Sore Tween:
Rule number 2: The same bike must be used throughout the attempt - Kurt switched from upright to recumbent regularly
Rule number 8: Drafting - plenty of video coverage of Kurt drafting
So if Kurt's record has been accepted by Guinness then those 2 rules are null and void
But Kurt didn't ride under Guinness rules, he rode under UMCA. If Guinness retrospectively decide to accredit UMCA records, that's up to them. I've no doubt that if there's a close tie between Bruce and Kurt, Guinness will somehow differentiate the rides to allow for the fact they were ridden under different criteria. That's assuming Guinness do ratify Bruce's ride - as we know, he's already transgressed on the 'drafting' thing, and he's going to have to somehow explain how he got from Australia to UK starting each day where he finished the last!!
But to accept Kurt's ride as the Guinness record and then assert rules of no pacing and one bike for the year would be unfair to future challengers.Guinness have a long history of changing their minds on the rules and just disallowing previous record holders. They've done this several times over for the round the world record.
But Kurt didn't ride under Guinness rules, he rode under UMCA. If Guinness retrospectively decide to accredit UMCA records, that's up to them. I've no doubt that if there's a close tie between Bruce and Kurt, Guinness will somehow differentiate the rides to allow for the fact they were ridden under different criteria. That's assuming Guinness do ratify Bruce's ride - as we know, he's already transgressed on the 'drafting' thing, and he's going to have to somehow explain how he got from Australia to UK starting each day where he finished the last!!
Bruce is coming across as a conceited fantasist
The Guinness rules posted above do not prevent you relocating by aeroplane. It only talks about getting lifts from a support vehicle that is following you. To me that doesn't even preclude getting a lift to somewhere else at the end of the day from someone (as long as they haven't been following you as a support vehicle during the day).
And, again, Kajsa (who has been meticulous about following the Guinness rules) plans on riding in Sweden and Denmark during her year so I doubt Bruce's planned relocations will be a problem.
Road.cc have confirmed guinness are officiating Bruce's attempt
, whether Bruce is ticking all the i's and crossing all the t's is absolutely irrelevant to anybody on this forum, as long you trust he is legitimately putting in the miles, what's it matter?
Where is the hate? If he does the necessary riding and complies with the rules, he gets the record. If he doesn't, he just rides a long way for his own amusement. Nothing wrong with that.
I think that riding that far and not getting the record is a waste of time but he can suit himself. Any time you measure yourself against an existing record, you are implicitly opening yourself to comparisons. There is no way around that fact.
Did Bruce actually say he is the guinness record holder? I've seen him say he beat the Guinness records, which is true, but have not seen him say he holds the Guinness record.I was pretty sure Bruce had said (on fb) that he held the week and month record - but that post seems to have disappeared. A little google found an interview where he claimed to have both records.
All I see is a guy riding huge miles daily with the intention of riding more than has ever been ridden before. Why so much hate towards the man. If he's happy to do so with the possibility neither Guinness nor umca will officiate it, so what? Why does it irk people so much. He still rode those miles.
I would of thought Bruce's style would appear to many. A man who simply gets on his bike and rides, no team, no camper van, no rules (potentially).
for example, i strongly believe that a bicycle is an eco-friendly mode of transport and any race or record attempt should exclude any fossil fuel burning vehicles.So how do you feel about flying from one side of the world to the other, solely to gain an advantage with weather conditions?
for example, i strongly believe that a bicycle is an eco-friendly mode of transport and any race or record attempt should exclude any fossil fuel burning vehicles.So how do you feel about flying from one side of the world to the other, solely to gain an advantage with weather conditions?
in my view, Bruce is doing the ride in a way that i can relate to most, no support, self sufficiently. current rules by umca were drafted only by few people whereby everybody else has to adhere to them.
in my view, Bruce is doing the ride in a way that i can relate to most, no support, self sufficiently. current rules by umca were drafted only by few people whereby everybody else has to adhere to them. for example, i strongly believe that a bicycle is an eco-friendly mode of transport and any race or record attempt should exclude any fossil fuel burning vehicles. now, would umca or guinness care about my opinion on doing things? do i have to respect the organisations that set the rules against my values?
at least i can choose my pov and give credit irrespective of other's opinions. :thumbsup:
;D :thumbsup:
in my view, Bruce is doing the ride in a way that i can relate to most, no support, self sufficiently. current rules by umca were drafted only by few people whereby everybody else has to adhere to them.
For a competition that is defined by comparison with others' performance, having rules that everyone has to adhere to seems pretty fundamental to me. I think Guinness are creating all sorts of problems by simultaneously creating a rather restrictive set of rules for some people (exclusively women as it happens) and also ratifying other records that have more relaxed rules and leaving the possibility open that they may ratify future claims with yet different rules. It's not helped by having at least one competitor who doesn't seem to be keen on following rules set down by others.
In my view, both Guinness and Bruce are (unintentionally) devaluing the efforts made by those who went to the effort of drafting, validating and complying with the year record process.
There's a lot of snidey comments throughout the thread.
hence my opinion if the validating bodies keep moving goalposts when they feel so, why can't a competitor amend the "rules" slightly especially as it doesn't make the challenge any easier.
If you're implying that all the volunteers at UMCA are just in it for self-interest (and/or financial/business reasons), i think you're almost certainly wrong.
I'm beginning to think he's another Steve Coogan creation.
Road.cc have confirmed guinness are officiating Bruce's attempt, whether Bruce is ticking all the i's and crossing all the t's is absolutely irrelevant to anybody on this forum, as long you trust he is legitimately putting in the miles, what's it matter?
We have spoken to Guinness World Records to seek confirmation that they are indeed certifying Berkeley’s record attempt with effect from 1 January 2016, and will update this story once we have their response. - See more at: http://road.cc/content/news/175956-bruce-berkeley-says-guinness-world-records-certifying-his-year-record-
Berkeley set off on his attempt on 1 January this year, and Guinness World Records confirmed to road.cc on Thursday that it will monitor his efforts.
A spokesman told us: “Guinness World Records can confirm that they have received a record application from Bruce Berkeley for the greatest distance cycled in a year.
“We wish him the best of luck throughout his record attempt and look forward to receiving his evidence so we can verify his evidence in the near future.”
One other issue remains to be clarified.
It had been reported here on road.cc and elsewhere that Berkeley already held Guinness World Records for the greatest distances cycled in a week and in a month.
That turns out to be incorrect and most likely results from road.cc and other sites picking uo on reports that the records had been broken at the time subject to certification by Guinness World Records.
So we asked them to clarify the current status of the week and month cycling records.
“They told us: “We have recently opened a record category for one week (minimum of 2,800 km to beat).”
“The farthest distance cycled in one month is 6,455 km (4,010 miles) and was achieved by Janet Davison (UK) from 24 July to 22 August 2015.”
I’m totally confused now.
Road.cc is becoming the Daily Mail of cycling sites!It's there already
Road.cc is becoming the Daily Mail of cycling sites!It's there already
We're just waiting for his 'record' from January last year to appear on the Guinness site.
http://road.cc/content/news/141773-bruce-berkeley-rides-nearly-10000km-january-set-new-guinness-world-record
Janet Davison is listed as holding the record for her ride in July last year, which has been ratified. So Bruce had a six months start in getting listed as the record holder, which was a new one. It's not that we don't believe that he's doing the miles, but that he'll never appear in the book.
You may notice in every upload Bruce mentions names of people he rode with
I still have not seen where Bruce claims to hold the records, he just claims to have beaten the guinness records.
Regardless even if he did claim to hold them and it later turned out his log keeping wasn't sufficient, we all make mistakes. He doesn't claim to hold any Guinness records on his social media profiles, he simply claims to have ridden certain mileage.
As was the case when he set the Guinness World Record for distance ridden in a week last year, there was no existing record ratified by the organisation for Berkeley to aim at.
He told Wade Wallace of Australian website Cycling Tips (link is external) that Guinness World Records had suggested he ride at least 5,000 kilometres, but he was aware other people on Strava were posting greater monthly distances so decided to aim for 10,000 instead.
- See more at: http://road.cc/content/news/141773-bruce-berkeley-rides-nearly-10000km-january-set-new-guinness-world-record#sthash.wY2PQzr4.dpuf
I still have not seen where Bruce claims to hold the records, he just claims to have beaten the guinness records.
Regardless even if he did claim to hold them and it later turned out his log keeping wasn't sufficient, we all make mistakes. He doesn't claim to hold any Guinness records on his social media profiles, he simply claims to have ridden certain mileage.
If you read the relevant articles you'll find that the month record was a new one. He approached Guinness, and they suggested a minimum standard of 5,000km. They told Janet Davison the same.QuoteAs was the case when he set the Guinness World Record for distance ridden in a week last year, there was no existing record ratified by the organisation for Berkeley to aim at.
He told Wade Wallace of Australian website Cycling Tips (link is external) that Guinness World Records had suggested he ride at least 5,000 kilometres, but he was aware other people on Strava were posting greater monthly distances so decided to aim for 10,000 instead.
- See more at: http://road.cc/content/news/141773-bruce-berkeley-rides-nearly-10000km-january-set-new-guinness-world-record#sthash.wY2PQzr4.dpuf
But he's not listed as the record holder.
These things go round and round these days because reading skills are getting worse. People see what they want to see. Is Bruce listed as the week record holder?
Again, where had Bruce claimed to be a holder of any Guinness record. Please enlighten me with the exact quotes.
// Bruce Berkeley
I have set two world records riding wheels built by Jonny – in June 2014 I managed 2,825km in 7 days and in January 2015 I rode 9,751km in one month. The next goal starts on January 1st 2016 with my attempt to break Tommy Godwin’s year record of 122,000km in 12 months. Jonny has teamed up with Boyd Cycling and Chris King to give me the best set of wheels for my journey. Cheers guys!!
He told Wade Wallace of Australian website Cycling Tips (link is external) that Guinness World Records had suggested he ride at least 5,000 kilometres, but he was aware other people on Strava were posting greater monthly distances so decided to aim for 10,000 instead.
That’s actually some distance short of the 13,813 kilometres that Tommy Godwin rode in 1939 on his way to establishing a new record for distance ridden in a year, and the likelihood is that Berkeley’s mark will be beaten at some point this year by Steve Abraham and Kurt Searvogel.
Both of those riders are aiming to break the 'unbreakable' Year record – but their attempts aren’t recognised by Guinness World Records, which considers the feat too dangerous to attempt.
While they covered less distance than Berkeley last month, as the days lenghten in the Northern Hemisphere over the coming months, so too will the distances they put in.
Likewise, the 2,825 kilometres Berkeley rode to establish that weekly record last year is less than the distance covered in the Race Across America (RAAM), though Guinness World Records doesn’t tend to recognise events where sleep deprivation may be an issue.
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We’re aware of other examples of riders putting in more than 3,000 kilometres in a week – Mike Hall during the first seven days of last year’s inaugural Trans Am Bike Race for instance.
None of that is to disparage Berkeley’s achievements – almost 10,000 kilometres is something many cyclists would be happy to be able to ride in a year let alone a month, and being able to put in a daily distance greater than that of the longest one-day pro race, Milan-San Remo is beyond all but a handful.
- See more at: http://road.cc/content/news/141773-bruce-berkeley-rides-nearly-10000km-january-set-new-guinness-world-record#sthash.FKZOQiOv.dpuf
What had you done before this?
Last year, I did the week record in June—I rode 2,825 kilometers in a week and beat the Guinness week record. That was physically harder than the month record!
But you weren’t far off of 10,000! Were you tempted to not stop riding until midnight of that last day to try to get it?
I really wanted to enjoy the experience on the last day. I wanted to have some fun, be off the bike a bit. I knew I’d gotten the record, and once I achieved that marker, it was hard to push past that marker. I think if someone beat the record, I’d be motivated to come back and try again!
He can't claim to be a Guinness record holder, because he isn't. On two separate occasions he has set out to establish a new cycling record, in consultation with Guinness. Neither record is listed. Do you see a pattern?
He can't claim to be a Guinness record holder, because he isn't. On two separate occasions he has set out to establish a new cycling record, in consultation with Guinness. Neither record is listed. Do you see a pattern?
I hate to be pedantic* but you can't see a pattern from just two examples.
*lie
If you want to be really picky he doesn't say he holds the Guinness record, just that he exceeded the Guinness-approved week record and the 5000 km in a month target set by Guinness. Neither of which are actual records as most people would understand them anyway.
“They told us: “We have recently opened a record category for one week (minimum of 2,800 km to beat).”
If you want to be really picky he doesn't say he holds the Guinness record, just that he exceeded the Guinness-approved week record and the 5000 km in a month target set by Guinness. Neither of which are actual records as most people would understand them anyway.
I don't think there is a holder of a week record yet. So what exactly does he think he beat?
From the Road.cc article...Quote“They told us: “We have recently opened a record category for one week (minimum of 2,800 km to beat).”
Seven days[edit]
On Sunday 17 March 1940 Pat Hawkins, an 18-year-old female from Western Australia, set the 'World Seven Days record' in Perth, having ridden 1,546.8 miles (2,489.3 km) to surpass the previous best (1,438.4 miles (2,314.9 km)) set by Mrs Valda [or Ada Vera] Unthank of Hastings, Victoria. Hawkins also broke the West Australian records for one, two, three, four, five, six and seven days, plus surpassing the Australian professional men's record of Ossie Nicholson.[40] No authority appears to maintain this record, however notable distances ridden in seven days include:
Tommy Godwin rode 2,084 miles (3,354 km) between 16 and 22 July 1939.[43]
Bruce Berkeley rode 2,825 kilometres (1,755 mi) between 23 and 29 June 2014.[44][n 1]
Richard Nutt rode 2,830 kilometres (1,760 mi) between 1 and 7 June 2015. [45]
One month[edit]
There have been numerous claims about the most distance ridden in one month. The only authority currently recognising this record appears to be Guinness World Records where the record is held by Janet Davison (UK) who rode 6,455 kilometres (4,011 mi) between 24 July and 22 August 2015.[46] Notable distances ridden in one month include:
Tommy Godwin rode 8,583 miles (13,813 km) in July 1939.[43]
Bruce Berkeley rode 9,750 kilometres (6,060 mi) in January 2015.[44][n 1]
Steve Abraham rode 6,469 miles (10,411 km) in October 2015.[48]
Kurt Searvogel rode 6,828 miles (10,989 km) in December 2015.[48]
If you want to be really picky he doesn't say he holds the Guinness record, just that he exceeded the Guinness-approved week record and the 5000 km in a month target set by Guinness. Neither of which are actual records as most people would understand them anyway.
I don't think there is a holder of a week record yet. So what exactly does he think he beat?
From the Road.cc article...Quote“They told us: “We have recently opened a record category for one week (minimum of 2,800 km to beat).”
Wiki has some entries.QuoteSeven days[edit]
On Sunday 17 March 1940 Pat Hawkins, an 18-year-old female from Western Australia, set the 'World Seven Days record' in Perth, having ridden 1,546.8 miles (2,489.3 km) to surpass the previous best (1,438.4 miles (2,314.9 km)) set by Mrs Valda [or Ada Vera] Unthank of Hastings, Victoria. Hawkins also broke the West Australian records for one, two, three, four, five, six and seven days, plus surpassing the Australian professional men's record of Ossie Nicholson.[40] No authority appears to maintain this record, however notable distances ridden in seven days include:
Tommy Godwin rode 2,084 miles (3,354 km) between 16 and 22 July 1939.[43]
Bruce Berkeley rode 2,825 kilometres (1,755 mi) between 23 and 29 June 2014.[44][n 1]
Richard Nutt rode 2,830 kilometres (1,760 mi) between 1 and 7 June 2015. [45]
One month[edit]
There have been numerous claims about the most distance ridden in one month. The only authority currently recognising this record appears to be Guinness World Records where the record is held by Janet Davison (UK) who rode 6,455 kilometres (4,011 mi) between 24 July and 22 August 2015.[46] Notable distances ridden in one month include:
Tommy Godwin rode 8,583 miles (13,813 km) in July 1939.[43]
Bruce Berkeley rode 9,750 kilometres (6,060 mi) in January 2015.[44][n 1]
Steve Abraham rode 6,469 miles (10,411 km) in October 2015.[48]
Kurt Searvogel rode 6,828 miles (10,989 km) in December 2015.[48]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_records#Seven_days
Who's "Fake Doctor HAMR MyArse" ?
Who's "Fake Doctor HAMR MyArse" ?
PMSL
Someone (possibly otp?) proving a point methinks and I suspect using Bruce's own tracks to do it.
It is someone proving that you can fake things on strava.Who's "Fake Doctor HAMR MyArse" ?
PMSL
Someone (possibly otp?) proving a point methinks and I suspect using Bruce's own tracks to do it.
Ummm... would someone be so kind as to enlighten me what on Earth you're both on about? :)
It is someone proving that you can fake things on strava.Who's "Fake Doctor HAMR MyArse" ?
PMSL
Someone (possibly otp?) proving a point methinks and I suspect using Bruce's own tracks to do it.
Ummm... would someone be so kind as to enlighten me what on Earth you're both on about? :)
Sometimes I get this crazy dream
That I just take off in my car
When you can travel on ten thousand miles
And still stay where you are
Interesting, but I was not suggesting that there was an attempt to deceive in any way, just that there is a natural variation in the distance measured. From a very unscientific observation this appears to be about 1% and the eTrex is longer than the Edge 500. If Bruce is using a wheel sensor - which he does not appear to be doing then I hope he is better at measuring wheel circumference than I am.
If you use a wheel sensor with a Garmin 500 to measure distance, rather than rely solely on the GPS, then set the wheel circumference to 10% greater than the actual wheel circumference and then upload the ride to Strava, you will find that Strava over reports your distance by 10%
This would be difficult to spot with Bruce's back and forth, twisty turns routes.
Another reason not to rely on Strava for the distance ridden.
This does not happen with Garmin Connect and RidewithGPS. I've checked Bruce's Garmin Connect pages and the distance is the same as that on Strava so he does currently have a correctly calibrated wheel sensor, if his Garmin is set to use it.
Interesting, but I was not suggesting that there was an attempt to deceive in any way, just that there is a natural variation in the distance measured. From a very unscientific observation this appears to be about 1% and the eTrex is longer than the Edge 500. If Bruce is using a wheel sensor - which he does not appear to be doing then I hope he is better at measuring wheel circumference than I am.
If you use a wheel sensor with a Garmin 500 to measure distance, rather than rely solely on the GPS, then set the wheel circumference to 10% greater than the actual wheel circumference and then upload the ride to Strava, you will find that Strava over reports your distance by 10%
This would be difficult to spot with Bruce's back and forth, twisty turns routes.
Another reason not to rely on Strava for the distance ridden.
This does not happen with Garmin Connect and RidewithGPS. I've checked Bruce's Garmin Connect pages and the distance is the same as that on Strava so he does currently have a correctly calibrated wheel sensor, if his Garmin is set to use it.
BB
If you use a wheel sensor with a Garmin 500 to measure distance, rather than rely solely on the GPS, then set the wheel circumference to 10% greater than the actual wheel circumference and then upload the ride to Strava, you will find that Strava over reports your distance by 10%
If you use a wheel sensor with a Garmin 500 to measure distance, rather than rely solely on the GPS, then set the wheel circumference to 10% greater than the actual wheel circumference and then upload the ride to Strava, you will find that Strava over reports your distance by 10%
I don't know what he's using, but Garmin dropped the option to set wheel size manually on the Edge 1000 (or at least I've not found it). It's set automagically from GPS data. What happens when you use it on a turbo I've no idea, but in theory it will think your wheel's tiny!
What I can tell you is that if you use the wheel sensor and the battery goes flat mid-ride then you lose speed and distance, even though you're still tracking on the map.
The continued debate on this thread is over cheating. It does not belong here. I think that it is hugely disrespectful to Bruce.
The continued debate on this thread is over cheating. It does not belong here. I think that it is hugely disrespectful to Bruce.
I asked [the moderators] for the thread to be split a while back but nothing happened. It'd be quite a job to split the thread in two now, but still possible, but the "Strava isn't a great standard of proof" and "why Strava isn't a great standard of proof" discussions are too intertwined now.
I have no doubts that Bruce is out there riding every single mile he is uploading to Strava. But convincing the majority of people he is/has at a later date is another matter.
In 10, 20 years time, I'm sure strava will still be around.
In 10, 20 years time, I'm sure strava will still be around.
Yeah.
Just like Atari, Aldus, Ericsson, Blackberry, MySpace, and Geocities. All thriving.
Steve, Kurt - their distance was taken from what was uploaded to Strava - the only difference was carrying a logger.
Steve, Kurt - their distance was taken from what was uploaded to Strava - the only difference was carrying a logger.
In 10, 20 years time, I'm sure strava will still be around.
Yeah.
Just like Atari, Aldus, Ericsson, Blackberry, MySpace, and Geocities. All thriving.
Not sure how naming those companies is in any way relevant. Even if strava is not around, another sharing your activity based on gps website will be.
Any significant discrepancy between wheel sensor and track length would show up, though. It's not as if you can't check this..
The continued debate on this thread is over cheating. It does not belong here. I think that it is hugely disrespectful to Bruce.
All records based on distance or time have a level of accuracy. What is the accuracy of a set of distances only recorded on Strava. What rounding, if any should we use?
Just a thought ???
BB
Steve, Kurt - their distance was taken from what was uploaded to Strava - the only difference was carrying a logger.
On several occasions, those Strava distances were not the ones that formed the official record. They were changed when discrepancies were spotted (such as inadvertent recording of car transfers, GPS errors, duplicated segments etc.). There was more going on behind the scenes than simply taking the headline Strava figures at face value.
I don't think that's true either as there was no requirement in the HAMR rules to upload to Strava.
Technology changes. In 10 years, let alone 20, the standard for positioning and navigation may have changed, and GPS may be obsolete, as Betamax video recorders, floppy discs, SCSI connectors and PS/2 peripherals are today.
The obsolescence of the GPS system may be forced rather than chosen. If the human race doesn't sort itself out then there's a chance that there will be no satellites left functioning and no way to safely get a new one up through low earth orbit.
Today is quite unusual; there have been _2_ posts about how far he rode!
"social media" isnt the internet. There are plenty of people following Kurt/Steve/Bruce who dont even have social media accounts.The continued debate on this thread is over cheating. It does not belong here. I think that it is hugely disrespectful to Bruce.
I asked [the moderators] for the thread to be split a while back but nothing happened. It'd be quite a job to split the thread in two now, but still possible, but the "Strava isn't a great standard of proof" and "why Strava isn't a great standard of proof" discussions are too intertwined now.
I have no doubts that Bruce is out there riding every single mile he is uploading to Strava. But convincing the majority of people he is/has at a later date is another matter.
Who are the majority of people? You may notice that for all Kurt, Steve, and bruce, on all their social media pages the highest following is on strava. If the strava users are convinced, the majority is already convinced.
If the Strava community are the sole arbiters, then Snowandale is wasting his time here. If the approbation of 'followers' is all he needs, then there's no reason to bother with people who ask questions like 'Does he really hold any of the records he claims?'I agree with all that.
Strava is social media, and a sort of mutual support network. This is part of the Audax world, where people cross t's and dot i's. Bruce doesn't need our approval, and we don't need to approve of him. He may even get a psychological boost from the disapproval of a bunch of old farts. But the main barriers are physiological, and the place with the highest percentage of those experienced in riding successive 200 mile days is here. So there'll continue to be an interest in what Bruce is doing, as the identification with the actual task is highest here.
(I think it's just hanging around in LEO that would be the problem, not travelling though it).
(I think it's just hanging around in LEO that would be the problem, not travelling though it).
Ah, yes, misread the page.
Still, it got my brain working on a more localised GPS 'mesh' using ground based transmitters (I know some form of these exist already with DGPS) and line-of-sight and all the rest.
Quite what this has to do with Bruce's attempt I don't know, so I'll stop.
It is possible to set the wheel size manually on a 1000. its in the menu for the wheel sensor when the head unit is connected to the sensor. Not surprised you haven't found it actually! And it has found the size of the wheel on my turbo bike accurately.
Bruce doesn't need our approval, and we don't need to approve of him. He may even get a psychological boost from the disapproval of a bunch of old farts. But the main barriers are physiological, and the place with the highest percentage of those experienced in riding successive 200 mile days is here.
I assumed they were to do with comments emanating from here.
I assumed they were to do with comments emanating from here.
Possibly (only Alicia can answer that), but some of the comments I saw posted on Kurt's Facebook page were orders of magnitude worse than the comments on here.
Quiet everyone! Aunt Maud's fallen asleep. Let's draw a comedy moustache on his face!
Alicia here ;D
Was I asked to comment? ::-)
I have to say that I am thoroughly enjoying Dave Barter's book The Year! :thumbsup:
You say that, but you've made the poor lad have to write a new chapter! ;)
You say that, but you've made the poor lad have to write a new chapter! ;)
And get a new cover drawing done...
You say that, but you've made the poor lad have to write a new chapter! ;)
And get a new cover drawing done...
And I have just finished it: a thoroughly good read. People who wish to comment on the authenticity of the various attempts might do well to read the final paragraphs of Dave's book.
I found just one small, technical error. ;)
PBP frequency?
We went to see the film about the Transamerica when it was premiered at Sheffield in June. It was good, but it seemed to be mainly a comedy about one of the participants and a couple of Italian blokes. The presence of the film crew also made us wonder about the purity of the 'self-supporting' aspect. That's because of the positive impact of observation on performance, rather than any cheating.
PBP frequency?
Ah, that might have been another. No, the relative size of 27" and 700C. It's complicated by the fact that you could be said to be right in a technical sense.
PBP frequency?
Ah, that might have been another. No, the relative size of 27" and 700C. It's complicated by the fact that you could be said to be right in a technical sense.
Yes another fella contacted me about that one. I think I need to reword it.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
You say that, but you've made the poor lad have to write a new chapter! ;)
And get a new cover drawing done...
27' rims? The mind boggles...
27' rims? The mind boggles...
Quiet everyone! Now Matt's fallen asleep too! Let's put his hand in a bowl of lukewarm water and see if he wees himself.<yawns>
I'd be more concerned that Matt doesn't know if he wee'd himself or not.If I'm asleep, I dont know if its mine or jo's.
no more news about the knee
so far 6,324.2 miles so far!
Ugh, I hope it sorts soon, not a lot of accommodation for mtfu in hamrno more news about the knee
Two hours ago Bruce tweeted a photo of a tube of Voltaren and "Had to use more of this and a whole lot of MTFU, leg still a bit off".
Wot's appenin'? I haven't read this to days - is he still going? Got a tracker yet?Nope
Just going to continue riding the bike mate, don't have the time for all that bollocks and if I do it, its there for everyone to see anyway!
It will be as far as he's concerned, and that's all he cares about it seems.
My gut tells me that he'll throw in the towel before 4 months is out and none of this will matter anyway.
I hope he enjoys his riding this year. It won't be a record.
I might have been one of those people.My gut tells me that he'll throw in the towel before 4 months is out and none of this will matter anyway.
I recall at the tail end of 2014 some commentators opining that Kurt would blow up by Easter 2015 and that'd be the last anyone would ever hear of him.
That's what will make Strava a dubious medium for records. Its function is to motivate the current users, not to intimidate them.And it will evolve to meet that need over time. It might be utterly different 5 years from now (they might make a deal with a particular gadget company and tie the whole thing into that).
That's what will make Strava a dubious medium for records. Its function is to motivate the current users, not to intimidate them.
I foresee Strava evolving into something like the Veteran Time Trials Association, with standards for age groups.
...There are people who will happily mislead others to move up the rankings.
...There are people who will happily mislead others to move up the rankings.
Yes, that's Strava all over.
Cycling segment records with average speeds >50kph, running segment records with average speeds >25kph, etc.
(They tend to only last a few days before they get removed, but they appear again pretty soon, so it's a constant battle that Strava face to keep the data even vaguely clean.)
Some stay for longer, for example: https://www.strava.com/segments/1306535/leaderboard?filter=overall
66.5kph round part of a roundabout and then over the bridge. Uh-hu. (One of the #7s in that list is legitimate though.)
...There are people who will happily mislead others to move up the rankings.
Yes, that's Strava all over.
Cycling segment records with average speeds >50kph, running segment records with average speeds >25kph, etc.
(They tend to only last a few days before they get removed, but they appear again pretty soon, so it's a constant battle that Strava face to keep the data even vaguely clean.)
Some stay for longer, for example: https://www.strava.com/segments/1306535/leaderboard?filter=overall
66.5kph round part of a roundabout and then over the bridge. Uh-hu. (One of the #7s in that list is legitimate though.)
That's what will make Strava a dubious medium for records. Its function is to motivate the current users, not to intimidate them.
Stava is social media. Its user base is quite specific, composed primarily of runners and cyclists. It's still social media though, whose primary function is basically "Everyone look at me! Aren't I great?"
Instagram: social media for camera phone users who post selfies or pics of the great places they've been, people they've met, even stuff they've eaten, etc.
Strava: social media for Garmin* users who post GPX tracks of the places they've been, speeds and distances they've achieved, altitudes climbed, etc.
* - Other GPS devices are available.
That's what will make Strava a dubious medium for records. Its function is to motivate the current users, not to intimidate them.
Stava is social media. Its user base is quite specific, composed primarily of runners and cyclists. It's still social media though, whose primary function is basically "Everyone look at me! Aren't I great?"
Instagram: social media for camera phone users who post selfies or pics of the great places they've been, people they've met, even stuff they've eaten, etc.
Strava: social media for Garmin* users who post GPX tracks of the places they've been, speeds and distances they've achieved, altitudes climbed, etc.
* - Other GPS devices are available.
Strava isn't just for Garmin, it's just that Garmin are probably the most dominant for GPSs.
Garmin are trying to promote their Garmin Connect, presumably to pull the rug out from Strava, but I think Strava probably has too much of a stronghold now. KOMing is now common terminology.
Strava have new "yearly" KOM/QOM's now, probably for this very reason.
Strava have new "yearly" KOM/QOM's now, probably for this very reason.
They did this from Jan 1st 2015 but surprisingly didn't repeat it for 2016
Age and weight are self-reported stats. There are people who will happily mislead others to move up the rankings.
As for Bruce, how's he doing?
BTW VeloViewer and StravistiX make Strava data much more useful and interesting IMO.
Strava does have to monetise its business, and it's been a bit shy about that, but I put that down to the fact that its owners are actually exercise enthusiasts who aren't out to screw their customers. Compare and contrast with Facebook... However, the fact that almost every other online exercise platform now interfaces with Strava, and that the company is now sponsoring cycle racing (such as The Women's Tour), means that the Pro subscription-based service is becoming more attractive. I anticipate that it will get more features, and more separation from the free service, though I think that will always be a useful offering. Advertising will come - on the free service, as is common on phone apps - and it won't be long before other exercise data gatherers (such as Garmin) will pay for Strava to provide their data engines.
Age and weight are self-reported stats. There are people who will happily mislead others to move up the rankings.
Not the only self-reported information:
One of Mrs Somnolent's QOMs was stolen by somebody who thought to move up the rankings by misleading others about his gender ! :o
Age and weight are self-reported stats. There are people who will happily mislead others to move up the rankings.
Not the only self-reported information:
One of Mrs Somnolent's QOMs was stolen by somebody who thought to move up the rankings by misleading others about his gender ! :o
There's more about Strava as only segments. The various monthly competitions regarding longest total distance, longest daily distance and most altitude gained are far more interesting for audaxers as chasing KOM's.
I really don't understand this, the competition thing is a total red herring for example: https://www.strava.com/segments/8343695 I know a number on that list and am far and away the weakest rider, but on one day wind and traffic came together perfectly. Strava segments are primarily about wearing grooves in the road. The daily thing is entertaining in places when the usual suspects are leaving work a few mins apart, other than that its a nice logging tool that just works, unlike Garmin's software IME where for some reason it logs every ride 3 times and Garmin give their usual level of support.
Training Peaks complements Strava quite well, though I'm not sure it's worth paying for both (I do, because I can and I'm a nerd, but I also pay for Trainer Roads, Zwift and have only just given up on BKool!!). I don't get on with Connect and find it unreliably accessible, particularly if you have a less than stellar broadband facility, but when it's working it does provide reasonable analysis tools, though I wouldn't claim they're better than Strava Premium - you do need to get 'under the hood' a bit with Strava to discover the full range of analysis available.
Put simply: if you want a tool to help you make measurable improvements then Strava isn't the one. I guess most people don't realise what they are seeing isn't quite accurate, or they're happy with just seeing a bunch of numbers without the bits that are needed to help them improve.
The 'fitness and freshness' graph (Strava's take on TSS/CTL/ATL/etc) is rendered completely useless if you combine cycling with running as it doesn't take into account the running at all. It can't be used for planning either (unlike TP). I've got a far better CTL/ATL model in a simple google spreadsheet. Given Strava's graph is based on dodgy calculations of cycling training impact it's of dubious use to begin with, even if you're just using it for cycling. Other than this graph there's no other inter-activity graphing available. Want to plot average speed over time? Nope. Want to plot HRavg over time? Nope.
Anyway, this is beyond a digression now.
Put simply: if you want a tool to help you make measurable improvements then Strava isn't the one. I guess most people don't realise what they are seeing isn't quite accurate, or they're happy with just seeing a bunch of numbers without the bits that are needed to help them improve.
The 'fitness and freshness' graph (Strava's take on TSS/CTL/ATL/etc) is rendered completely useless if you combine cycling with running as it doesn't take into account the running at all. It can't be used for planning either (unlike TP). I've got a far better CTL/ATL model in a simple google spreadsheet. Given Strava's graph is based on dodgy calculations of cycling training impact it's of dubious use to begin with, even if you're just using it for cycling. Other than this graph there's no other inter-activity graphing available. Want to plot average speed over time? Nope. Want to plot HRavg over time? Nope.
Have you tried http://veloviewer.com/ ?
Does provide some of the things you mention from your Strava data and it's only £10 a year I think. It's fun for data geekery and good for comparing your mileage progress through the year with previous years too.
BTW VeloViewer and StravistiX make Strava data much more useful and interesting IMO.
I've not used Stravistics, but I'm a pro member of Veloviewer, which is a stats-nerd's nirvana!
9pm and nothing posted for Bruce today. Usually posts around 7...
The TrainerRoad podcast explained a lot of the concepts. Particularly how IF is derived (it's basically NP divided by FTP) and TSS which is IF times duration in hours times 100.
ATL is basically how much short term fatigue you have and CTL how much accumulated training effect. The fitness and freshness scores on Strava are similar in concept.
All I really need is to know roughly what the TSS of my rowing sessions is.
The TrainerRoad podcast explained a lot of the concepts. Particularly how IF is derived (it's basically NP divided by FTP) and TSS which is IF times duration in hours times 100.
ATL is basically how much short term fatigue you have and CTL how much accumulated training effect. The fitness and freshness scores on Strava are similar in concept.
All I really need is to know roughly what the TSS of my rowing sessions is.
WTF, OMG. LOL.
IIRC, he was only carrying a single Edge 1000. That leaves him very vulnerable to any gremlins.
IIRC, he was only carrying a single Edge 1000. That leaves him very vulnerable to any gremlins.
Last cycle_dr1 twitter post Jan 31st - hope he is OK.
BB
I dont see a ride for wednesday on strava. Am I missing something?
His tweets haven't been making the Canyon Bikes page, which tends to suggest that he's not garnering enough interest. https://twitter.com/canyon_bikes
His tweets haven't been making the Canyon Bikes page, which tends to suggest that he's not garnering enough interest. https://twitter.com/canyon_bikes
Or that they are keeping their powder dry. If he succeeds, they've bought a lot of promo for their £3K or whatever. If he fails, nobody needs to know about it.
Bruce's bike is £5k+ worth, one of the top of line aeroads isn't it?
Bruce's bike is £5k+ worth, one of the top of line aeroads isn't it?
...not cost to the manufacturer
Hard start morning, shorter day on the pedals fixed the head
@lazerhelmets @LakeCycling @assos_com @boydcycling https://t.co/f0ceJJcxSy
Comment from someone on strava next to his ride...http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/118987-farthest-distance-cycled-in-one-month
" Craig Northam - buckitbelts.com
Just to put something straight here guys - Guinness has always been officiating Bruce's records. They ratified his one-week record (recently broken, but only by 5km!) and his one-month record (here in Adelaide last year); and they continue to be his official record overseers. They are much more world recognized than the UMCA and are the gold standard for world records - just ask the average person in the street which one they've heard of - Guinness or UMCA! :)
45 minutes ago "
Janet Davidson is down as the month record holder on their website.
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/118987-farthest-distance-cycled-in-one-month
Im not really interested in a debate on UMCA or Guinness ...but I am interested in if this statement is true or not?
Has it been proven if Guinness are ratifying his record attempt (if so where are the rules or confirmation of this)
Have Guinness now ratified his previous attempts?
Nothing against Bruce but im interested in the year record, not just watching someone eat miles on Strava (as hugely impressive as this is) It would be nice to know if this is a record attempt, or just a very long ride with sponsorship?
Have Guinness now ratified his previous attempts?
I think the uploads may have changed slightly as I now see no ride on the 4th Feb, but a couple on the 5th.
A few low milage days really illustrates the merciless cruelty of the challenge. All that effort climbing above the Searvogel line with a month of impressive riding is wiped out and more.
"Time trials are won, not by riding fast, but by not riding slow"
(http://gicentre.org/oytt/images/oytt2016_02_05a.png)
couple of pics of Bruce from Beardy McBeard pulled from Instagram
(http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y394/dansipods2/Screen%20Shot%202016-02-05%20at%2013.00.59_zpseygrwc50.png) (http://s1272.photobucket.com/user/dansipods2/media/Screen%20Shot%202016-02-05%20at%2013.00.59_zpseygrwc50.png.html)
Is it just me or is this attempt just looking dooooooooomed!based on history, your statement heralds a bruce resurgence
BB
That looks like a stock response to anyone who writes enquiring about a record attempt.
I personally can not understand why you would continue to allow media to say you have world records that you clearly do not have?I don't think that is the case; road.cc have retracted the oft-repeated statement about the month and week records.
I personally can not understand why you would continue to allow media to say you have world records that you clearly do not have?I don't think that is the case; road.cc have retracted the oft-repeated statement about the month and week records.
I lost all respect for him when he blanked Kurt.I personally can not understand why you would continue to allow media to say you have world records that you clearly do not have?I don't think that is the case; road.cc have retracted the oft-repeated statement about the month and week records.
Well there was multiple people still claiming he owns the records on his facebook and strava posts...and he has not once distanced himself from them. He obviously reads it all because he soon blocked me for what I had said! I wish him all the best... but calling out anyone who criticizes him in his ride descriptions seems to lack a bit of class.
That looks like a stock response to anyone who writes enquiring about a record attempt.
Yes, it's a stock response, the proof will be in the pudding.
I find the discussions on the Bruce's Strava posts really quite depressing. I guess it comes with the social media territory, but the comments seem to be 80% inane flattery ("You da monster dude!"), 10% genuine attempts, like Shaun's (is that you RedEye?), to find out what's going on with his validation, and 10% vitriolic putdowns of anyone who is not in the 80% category. Hoppo's somewhat blunt exclamation ridden prose comes across as considered and tactful in comparison. And Bruce's post title today doesn't really help matters.
I can't work out if Bruce is deluding himself with his stated belief that he has Guinness ratification of his past and current rides, or wether he has simply backed himself into a corner and finds it difficult to admit that he needs to take a different approach to have any credible recognition of a future record.
From what he said, Burce is extremely stubborn and utterly resistant to acquiescing to anything he views as 'authority'.
I think the uploads may have changed slightly as I now see no ride on the 4th Feb, but a couple on the 5th.
A few low milage days really illustrates the merciless cruelty of the challenge. All that effort climbing above the Searvogel line with a month of impressive riding is wiped out and more.
"Time trials are won, not by riding fast, but by not riding slow"
(http://gicentre.org/oytt/images/oytt2016_02_05a.png)
+1 - the numbers are almost as merciless as the challenge. Every day in which only 100 miles is ridden adds approximately 0.3 miles a day to the every other day in the year, and a blank day 0.57 miles per day. So a half dozen bad days can mean the average for the rest going up to 210, 211....
Does anybody know what's going on? mrcharly: does your friend have any news about Bruce's knee?He's not my friend, he's Bruce's friend.
I can't work out if Bruce is deluding himself with his stated belief that he has Guinness ratification of his past and current rides, or whether he has simply backed himself into a corner and finds it difficult to admit that he needs to take a different approach to have any credible recognition of a future record.
He remains an excellent rider, whatever else. And I think it is a great shame if his attempt has been terminated (I won't say failed), but it did seem to be heading that way for a while.
There are some real nobbish comments appearing on Bruce's strava page. :facepalm:
Bruce himself is still silent
There are some real nobbish comments appearing on Bruce's strava page. :facepalm:
Bruce himself is still silent
Indeed, whilst I have enjoyed some of Durianriders videos on youtube about diet and cycling. His unfounded comments regarding Kurt taking steroids and cheating by drafting and riding a recumbent is a new level of stupidity.
That's really crass. And stupid.
Just to set the record straight: Kurt does not and never has used steroids. He is naturally a big person (and getting bigger now that he is not riding much, lol).well, quite.
Anyone who says he does has no honest credibility in such a remark and is fooling his own ego - pitiful.
Reading Strava comments can be addicting entertainment. I know I've been easily sucked in like it's some guilty pleasure. This is awful, but I almost look for the tool of the day and who will get the "banana award" for the most ridiculous comment.
...Is this a real thing?!? I may have to dig out my Strava login details. :P
who will get the "banana award" for the most ridiculous comment.
...Is this a real thing?!? I may have to dig out my Strava login details. :P
who will get the "banana award" for the most ridiculous comment.
...Is this a real thing?!? I may have to dig out my Strava login details. :P
who will get the "banana award" for the most ridiculous comment.
Is that actually THE durianrider?
Any oik can register on Strava with whatever similar name and cause a stink - and there are quite a few who have snuck out from under rocks just to piss people off with their negativity and destructive attitudes.
If it is the better-known durianrider, (and I suspect it is, looking at his strava stats) then bad on you, you old roo-scrote.
...durianrider
...cause a stink.
Is that actually THE durianrider?
Any oik can register on Strava with whatever similar name and cause a stink - and there are quite a few who have snuck out from under rocks just to piss people off with their negativity and destructive attitudes.
If it is the better-known durianrider, (and I suspect it is, looking at his strava stats) then bad on you, you old roo-scrote.
Why did you bother with the bold bit? Your second paragraph shows you clicked his profile, so obviously it is the durian rider. How many oiks amass 20,000 followers and rides on the back of Chris froomes wheel.
Is that actually THE durianrider?
Any oik can register on Strava with whatever similar name and cause a stink - and there are quite a few who have snuck out from under rocks just to piss people off with their negativity and destructive attitudes.
If it is the better-known durianrider, (and I suspect it is, looking at his strava stats) then bad on you, you old roo-scrote.
Why did you bother with the bold bit? Your second paragraph shows you clicked his profile, so obviously it is the durian rider. How many oiks amass 20,000 followers and rides on the back of Chris froomes wheel.
He hasn't really lost any speed, just riding shorter distances. Could it be that he has smartened up and is planning a restart under UMCA rules?
Holy crap.
I'm old enough to realise that I can't just 'bivvy' my way around the world
I'm old enough to realise that I can't just 'bivvy' my way around the world
I'm sure you could. My 80 year old mate Dennis rode LeJog a few years back hoping to be the oldest. I'm not sure if such a record exists. He asked me to find out so that if it does exist he can set off again when he is a year older than the holder.
I'm old enough to realise that I can't just 'bivvy' my way around the world
I'm sure you could. My 80 year old mate Dennis rode LeJog a few years back hoping to be the oldest. I'm not sure if such a record exists. He asked me to find out so that if it does exist he can set off again when he is a year older than the holder.
Here you go, he needs to wait a year or two
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/oldest-person-to-cycle-from-lands-end-to-john-o-groats
I'm old enough to realise that I can't just 'bivvy' my way around the world
I'm sure you could. My 80 year old mate Dennis rode LeJog a few years back hoping to be the oldest. I'm not sure if such a record exists. He asked me to find out so that if it does exist he can set off again when he is a year older than the holder.
Here you go, he needs to wait a year or two
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/oldest-person-to-cycle-from-lands-end-to-john-o-groats
No he doesn't. This was 2 years back.
He's still riding but not doing anywhere near the miles required - I guess he's just riding for the enjoyment now.
https://connect.garmin.com/profile/cycle_dr1 (https://connect.garmin.com/profile/cycle_dr1)
Funny that he's not posting to Strava though as he's posted regularly to it for several years.
That was almost all of the message. I think it may also have been edited slightly since originally posted. It currently says:
"Hi everyone, I just wanted to give you all an update as to my year record attempt. I have had a few personal and Physical issues to deal with in the last 10 days. Due to the nature of the issues I have decided to postpone the record attempt! I will look at restarting later in the year."
I want to thank everyone for the support, and I’m sorry that these issues not allowed me to continue. Pretty gutted at this stage, but will put it down to experience, move forward and get back on with some projects later in the year.
Once again thanks so much for the support.
Hopefully he will show the record more respect next time, instead of indulging in a personal challenge and claiming some sort of wider significance for it.
This may seem harsh, but I think Bruce's attempt has underlined what is needed to get this record. He is not the first to have physical issues during the attempt. Almost all of those before him suffered from something, including Kurt and Steve, those capable (and mad enough) have ridden through them. Think Jens Voigt.Not harsh, realistic
He appears to have abandoned after a combination of mental AND physical issues, but the physical ones are those that are usually made public. In the nicest possible way I think this shows he is not up to it. And it shows that Kurt and Steve were. He has done us a great service though by evidencing that this is not just a year of gentle pedalling.
Yep the physical challenge is staggering and needs a bit of luck in avoiding bugs etc when you are running your body that near the limit. But I still think the mental challenge is even greater.
I'm still surprised that 2 of the 5 efforts actually succeeded on the mental side.
Im not sure there are many people on the planet who have the state of mind and strength of character needed to complete a proper attempt at the year.... to then actually beat the record you also need to combine those mental attributes with the ability to time trial at 18-20mph day in day out while remaining in a comfort zone....madness!
whats bruce planning for January? a month attempt?
whats bruce planning for January? a month attempt?
Bruce is off again. 200 plus days, looks like a seven day distance attempt. There's a cycling weekly story on a Richard Nutt claiming a world record for this, what's the most you or Amanda have done in 7 days Teeth grinder?
Bruce is off again. 200 plus days, looks like a seven day distance attempt. There's a cycling weekly story on a Richard Nutt claiming a world record for this, what's the most you or Amanda have done in 7 days Teeth grinder?
It'd be a bit like trying to get the 10 mile record during a 24 hour
Oh and FYII think my fastest 10 were near the end of a 5AAA 200km.*Quote from: teefgrinderIt'd be a bit like trying to get the 10 mile record during a 24 hour
My fastest 10 miles were during a 50 mile TT!
My fastest 10 miles were during a 50 mile TT!
When Christoph Strasser did his 7d22h RAAM in 2013, he will have done about 2600 miles in 7 days. The data will probably still be on the UMCA site to show the last time station he passed before the week was up.In 2014, Strasser did RAAM in 7d16h.