DOTD

[Kim]

Sugar cycles a lot and at a heck of a speed, according to cycling weekly journalists who have ridden with him.

Cycling at a heck of a speed does seem to reduce conflict with motor traffic...

[TimC]

When I was in the military, if I was tasked with flying into an area where people really were trying to kill me, I spent a great deal of time and energy doing everything I could to make damn sure I wasn't an easy target. In an urban cycling environment, the same applies. I would love for drivers to be more aware and to consistently and reliably do all they could to avoid me, but I know that's a forlorn hope so I will do everything I can to minimise the risk of being a victim. That includes the measures Alan Sugar suggests. No, it won't prevent '99% of accidents', but hopefully it will prevent 99% of my accidents.

[spindrift]

I did four years in the SAS and left because the balaclava made me itchy but Alan Beard is appealing to terrible drivers who are desperate to believe that the collision they may cause will be the rider's fault. Rubbish drivers love to believe cyclists are constantly throwing themselves under car wheels, it's a neat little pre-prepared bias built into society that the self-appointed Yoda of Cycling has just reinforced.

[red marley]

The video of the cyclist-taxi collision that's doing the social media rounds at the moment is an apposite example of the kind of thing we are discussing.

There's little doubt that if the cyclist had stopped before the taxi driver moved left, or filtered to his right (or stayed at home that day), there would not have been a collision between them. So it feels natural to suggest that cyclists should be more aware of the possibility of situations like this arising. However, we also have to consider the effect of very public words of advice such as Sugar's which will be heard by more non cyclists than cyclists. In this case, the taxi driver did a classic manoeuvresignal rather than mirror -- signal -- manoeuvre, showing a lack of awareness that had more serious consequences for the cyclist than it did for the driver. Discussion of #bloodycyclists filtering down the inside has the consequence of allowing those who actually do the harm to avoid having to change their behaviour or accept responsibility for the potentially dangerous vehicles they control.

[Ham]

Sorry Jo, are you saying continuing to stream down the inside of a vehicle indicating left is good cycling? That is any more good than turning left without regard for the cyclist come up the inside?

There is a huge disparity in the responsibility of the car and the bike, there's nothing to choose when it comes to the competence of the driver and rider.

[Jakob W]

Except the taxi starts turning and flicking his indicator at the same time, when the cyclist is almost level with the rear of the cab. Now you might say you should never filter left near a junction even if a vehicle's not indicating, but the cabbie's competence is far below the cyclist's - the first cyclist of 3 has just passed his front wing and he clearly isn't aware of the other 2 behind him, nor does he do any kind of mirror check before he turns.

Now obviously defensively paranoid riding can protect against some risks - albeit at the cost of a slower or more tiring journey as it's safer never to pass a vehicle - but the fact remains that motor vehicles are so much faster and heavier that they can put you at risk whatever you do. Which is why the onus should always be on the driver to ensure they're not placing others at risk.

[spindrift]

Svetlana Tereschenko was killed by a lorry driver who didn't bother indicating. The lorry driver that killed Daniel Cox was indicating, but unfortunately he turned the opposite direction. Neither cyclist did anything wrong, both have their behaviour impugned by Sugar. Sebastien Lukowmski and Mary Bowers were both stopped at traffic lights and a lorry driver came up behind and either didn't notice or forgot the cyclists were there and ended both their lives. So when Sugar says:

Any truck that is parked by traffic lights, I will not go down the inside lane of it. I will stay behind it and be patient because it’s going to kill me.

 

he's bolstering the view that riders killed by trucks have been rash or intemperate and that is not often the case. It's not even usually the case.

[red marley]

Sorry Jo, are you saying continuing to stream down the inside of a vehicle indicating left is good cycling?

As you might guess, I wouldn't say this is 'good cycling'. What I did say though can be paraphrased as Anyone can behave less than ideally on the road, but those whose less than ideal behaviour poses the greatest danger to others have the greatest obligation to behave better.

[Ham]

Sorry Jo, are you saying continuing to stream down the inside of a vehicle indicating left is good cycling?

As you might guess, I wouldn't say this is 'good cycling'. What I did say though can be paraphrased as Anyone can behave less than ideally on the road, but those whose less than ideal behaviour poses the greatest danger to others have the greatest obligation to behave better.

I'd never argue with that.

[TigaSefi]

Taxi drivers that suddenly lurch to the left to a kerb for a customer that stuck their hands out are bloody lethal drivers! Same goes for those that are already by the kerb with the left indicator on then suddenly, as you are moving out to the right to go round them, decided to flick right indicator and attempt a complete u-turn with scant regards for both cyclists and cars  No amount of situational awareness can make up for those kind of thoughts.

[Ham]

Taxi drivers that suddenly lurch to the left to a kerb for a customer that stuck their hands out are bloody lethal drivers! Same goes for those that are already by the kerb with the left indicator on then suddenly, as you are moving out to the right to go round them, decided to flick right indicator and attempt a complete u-turn with scant regards for both cyclists and cars  No amount of situational awareness can make up for those kind of thoughts.

Sorry mate, but you couldn't be more wrong.

As you say, some situations make these sort of manoeuvre more probable. For example, an unusual traffic blockage, someone hailing a cab from the other side of the street. Just being aware of the situation gives you the possibility to avoid it, and do all or any of modify your speed, direction, cover your brakes.

[TigaSefi]

That's your opinion. After 5 years of riding in London, I am still occasionally surprised by drivers despite trying to 2nd guess everyone the best I can! 

[rogerdodge]

I think that most people here have the anticipation to avoid these kind of accidents most of the time, but this comes from experience and people ought to be able to cycle and survive without those years of learning. Pretty much in the same way that pedestrians do.

[Ham]

I think that most people here have the anticipation to avoid these kind of accidents most of the time, but this comes from experience and people ought to be able to cycle and survive without those years of learning. Pretty much in the same way that pedestrians do.

There are a number of people on here who have undertaken Advanced Driving, Motorcycling, Cycling training and while they may not all agree with me entirely, riding safely is NOT about second guessing what someone else is going to do because, guess what? you don't know. Instead it is about taking control of your destiny yourself.

A really good example (and non controversial) is from driving, what to do with tailgaters on a motorway. It's something that many people have a problem with, the answer  is simple, you ensure that the gap between you and the car in front is such that you can stop without the tailgater going into you.

So, no, it isn't my opinion, it is just best practice.

FTR, nothing I say changes my agreement that people SHOULD be able to cycle and survive without using that level of skill

The common cause I have with Mr S is that  as a personal preference I would prefer not to have segregated cycle facilities. In and of themselves they are arguably not fantastic for cycle safety. What they do do, and why they are ultimately a good thing, is that they bring more people on to bikes which almost however it is achieved is a Good Thing.

[Hot Flatus]

The video of the cyclist-taxi collision that's doing the social media rounds at the moment is an apposite example of the kind of thing we are discussing.

There's little doubt that if the cyclist had stopped before the taxi driver moved left, or filtered to his right (or stayed at home that day), there would not have been a collision between them. So it feels natural to suggest that cyclists should be more aware of the possibility of situations like this arising. However, we also have to consider the effect of very public words of advice such as Sugar's which will be heard by more non cyclists than cyclists. In this case, the taxi driver did a classic manoeuvresignal rather than mirror -- signal -- manoeuvre, showing a lack of awareness that had more serious consequences for the cyclist than it did for the driver. Discussion of #bloodycyclists filtering down the inside has the consequence of allowing those who actually do the harm to avoid having to change their behaviour or accept responsibility for the potentially dangerous vehicles they control.

Interesting, because I watch that and judge it to be entirely the fault of the cyclist.

Plain old common sense, backed up by Rule 167  of the Highway Code: ‘Do not overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example, approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road’.

[andrew_s]

Cyclist attempting to cross a closed level crossing just as a Pendilino HST arrived:
https://uk.screen.yahoo.com/near-misses-close-calls/polish-cyclist-shockingly-drives-path-065236717.html
He was about a half second too late to succeed in his Darwin award attempt, but it's instructive to see how far the smooth side of the train knocked him

[jsabine]

The video of the cyclist-taxi collision that's doing the social media rounds at the moment is an apposite example of the kind of thing we are discussing.

There's little doubt that if the cyclist had stopped before the taxi driver moved left, or filtered to his right (or stayed at home that day), there would not have been a collision between them. So it feels natural to suggest that cyclists should be more aware of the possibility of situations like this arising. However, we also have to consider the effect of very public words of advice such as Sugar's which will be heard by more non cyclists than cyclists. In this case, the taxi driver did a classic manoeuvresignal rather than mirror -- signal -- manoeuvre, showing a lack of awareness that had more serious consequences for the cyclist than it did for the driver. Discussion of #bloodycyclists filtering down the inside has the consequence of allowing those who actually do the harm to avoid having to change their behaviour or accept responsibility for the potentially dangerous vehicles they control.

Interesting, because I watch that and judge it to be entirely the fault of the cyclist.

Plain old common sense, backed up by Rule 167  of the Highway Code: ‘Do not overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example, approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road’.

I don't think I'd say *entirely* the fault of the cyclist - though I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for him.

Undertaking a moving vehicle at a junction, especially one that's indicating (and I think the taxi's indicator was on as it approached the junction, not just as it turned) is a damn-fool game. Nonetheless, the taxi driver's got to take some responsibility for it: his indicator doesn't give him priority, and he's been put on notice that there are cyclists doing stupid things by the one undertaking immediately beforehand. It would be nice to think he'd have been able to spot the cyclist either in his mirror, or by doing a shoulder check to the nearside as he turned - after all, he's the one driving a ton of metal around.

I'd probably hold him liable, but with 75 or 80% contributory negligence by the cyclist.

[spindrift]

94.2% cabbie's fault. He didn't indicate, didn't check his mirror and turned when it wasn't safe.

[spindrift]

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/taxi-driver-fined-for-knocking-highprofile-cycling-campaigner-off-bike-a3135406.html

[Ham]

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/taxi-driver-fined-for-knocking-highprofile-cycling-campaigner-off-bike-a3135406.html

....but that was deliberate and targeted.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Cyclist attempting to cross a closed level crossing just as a Pendilino HST arrived:
https://uk.screen.yahoo.com/near-misses-close-calls/polish-cyclist-shockingly-drives-path-065236717.html
He was about a half second too late to succeed in his Darwin award attempt, but it's instructive to see how far the smooth side of the train knocked him

That has to be DOTY

[fuzzy]

The 'Stipster' (Stealth Hipster) cycling in the opposite direction to me this morning. Black hair, black full beard, black scarf, black jacket, black jeans, black shoes (probably Chukkas) on an unlit fixie. Hands and face were white but, as his handlebars were about 12" wide and his hands were as close to the middle as he could get them, both were invisible from behind. I looked back as soon as we passed and the only reason I could see him was because I knew he was there, it took me about 5 seconds to locate him.

[dave r]

That's your opinion. After 5 years of riding in London, I am still occasionally surprised by drivers despite trying to 2nd guess everyone the best I can!

Even after more than forty years on the road I still get surprised once in a while.

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

The Yoof on the slime green BMX machine.

Narrow street with an oncoming car. I am approaching a blind left turn.  Said Yoof comes hurtling (i.e. very fast) out of the turn on the wrong side of the road.  It's immediately obvious

a) he is on a collision course with me
b) his bike has absolutely no brakes, none. 

Fortunately I have good brakes and stop instantly to avoid being barged into the oncoming car.  Yoof receives 'feedback' with which he does not argue.

[David Martin]

Son. Forgetting the lock is one thing. Failing to turn round and ride the 300m home to get it and instead just leaving the bike outside the bank whne you went in to pay in your christmas gift money was less than wise. It now appears that much of that finance will be going towards replacing the bike that was subsequently lifted in the 5 mins you were inside.