Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Freewheeling => MTB => Topic started by: bumper on 28 September, 2014, 02:36:12 pm
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I know there's a few on here who own fatties :thumbsup:
I'm torn between frames that take 4" or 5" tyres.
I know a 190mm will take both but will 170mm with 4" tyres be enough for trail work and backpacking. I'm not planning on travelling through snow every weekend, does that make the 5" tyres overkill.
I'm looking at off the peg bikes, not building, it's too expensive! Used fatbikes are like rocking horse poo! Don't mind ally or steel. ~£1500
Ive seen a mukluk (4") at a good price and the new kona wo (5") looks great too. Not that interested in the fatboy, don't like the pf bb and the forks have no way to attach things. The surly ice cream truck and moon lander are too expensive. The trek Farley 6 looks alright(ish).
Ideas, opinions welcome before I blow my budget!
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4" is fine for trail work and will be fine in snow and sand as well. Don't forget that the effective width is a combination of the tyre and rim width - they vary from about 60mm up to 100mm. Personally I find around 80mm works best for me
Not ridden one myself but the On One Fattie gets good reviews, not sure whether you can mount stuff on the forks, but is around £1000.
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Cheers Paul.
The holy rolling darryl on the mukluk are 80mm-ish running 3.8 nates.
Are you on 4-5"? Feel the difference between both?
I'm not keen on the on-one, I know it sounds girly but I can't stand the colour scheme :facepalm:
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I've yet to find anything that I couldn't handle on 4" tyres at a suitable pressure, and that includes ice (8psi front, 12psi rear)
Pugsleys now come with the Moonlander fork as standard, meaning that not only does it have Anything Cage mounts but it'll also take a 5" tyre without clearance issues. I'm considering exactly this once I'm riding again. You could fit a 5" tyre on the back of a Pug but you'd probably need to use a truncated cassette.
The 3.7/3.8" Larry/Endomorph combo works fine on Rolling Darryl rims (82mm) - this is the setup I have on my Pug. Bob Pavlica at Surly is running 3.8" Knards on 100mm Clown Shoe rims, albeit on an ICT, and he seems pretty happy with the combo, plus it gives you the ability to step up to 5" tyres without having to worry about rim compatibility etc.
My biggest problem with the Mukluk is the 170mm rear spacing - that seriously limits your choice of rear hubs, but if you can cope with that then it's a nice enough bike and the build quality will be superb if it's anything like my El Mariachi. Word of Salsa is that the Mukluk won't take 5" tyres (unless they've changed the frame setup)
ETA: Here's a gratuitous photo of the braze-ons on a Moonie fork - this was before I fitted bottle cages, and you could easily fit something like the Salsa Minimalist rack as well if you wanted (there are axle and mid-level eyelets as well as a couple on the fork crown)
(http://36x17.org.uk/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/1620629_10152285462061636_3922943241876426528_n.jpg)
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That's great!
The mukluk rear hub was my concern, that's stopped me from buying it. I'll have a look at a few pugs, I didn't know they came with the moonlander forks now. I did see a necro but frame only, by the time I've built it, it's well over £2000 with wheels and tyres. God they are expensive, it's cheaper to buy a bloody bike!
I'm not 100% on 5" tyres but didn't want to limit myself, better to have the option than regret being limited on 4's.
I'm amazed how many fatbikes don't have any mounts for stuff and come with 1x10. I want mine to be loaded and get up hills without pushing.
I'm going to check out a few pugsleys now :thumbsup:
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I'm amazed how many fatbikes don't have any mounts for stuff and come with 1x10. I want mine to be loaded and get up hills without pushing.
Fatbikes and front derailleurs are uneasy bedfellows.
Don't ask how I know this suffice to say that I originally built my Pugsley with an Alfine-8 before converting it to singlespeed.
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Cheers Paul.
The holy rolling darryl on the mukluk are 80mm-ish running 3.8 nates.
Are you on 4-5"? Feel the difference between both?
Hard to say. Had Marges with Nate/Husker Du on my Pugsley and now running Holy Rolling Daryll's on my Puffin. But I had about a 7 month gap between selling the Pugsley and the Puffin arriving. I'd say grips better and there's allegedly better float on the wider rims. As it's been bone dry since I got the Puffin I haven't been able to put that to the test.
I'm amazed how many fatbikes don't have any mounts for stuff and come with 1x10. I want mine to be loaded and get up hills without pushing.
Fatbikes and front derailleurs are uneasy bedfellows.
Don't ask how I know this suffice to say that I originally built my Pugsley with an Alfine-8 before converting it to singlespeed.
Had a few teething troubles (which were possibly not helped by running a triple mech/shifter on a double ring) getting my front mech set up but now I've got the height right (it looks very high!) its problem free with smooth shifting so don't be put off.
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Riding with 5" big fat larry on the front and 4" On one Floater on the rear tire in spring and autumn.
Reason : I can handle the slippery mud better with the 5" than 4".
All other times 4" are fine.
I will say the tire you choose might make a bigger difference than the size.
Knards are really good on dry and gravel conditions, but dangerous in mud.
Nate have superb grip and the 120 tpi are softer than the 27tpi
The Floater are really good and "cheap", slightly less grip than Nate but better than the older Surly models.
Oh and I only buy black tires, coloured tires are just for show and they have to add more filling agents to them than the blacks, so black = slightly more rubber and less filling agents.
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Thanks all :thumbsup:
I'm still drawn to the mukluk2. It's orange :thumbsup:
I think I'll be well happy on 4", mukluk has 120 nates on 82mm rims
The 170mm hubs could be replaced by hope fatsno if needed
It's got 2x10
Plenty of holes to bolt stuff onto
Sliding dropouts for future tinkering
I've been given a deal on a new kona Wo 2015, I like it, fits 5" too but it's dark green. It has what I need but the colour puts me off, it looks kinda dull.
The pugsleys are pushing the budget with the kit I want. They come as 9 speed standard too, I'd prefer 10 so all of my bikes can use the same spares. I can only find them in blue and black, I've got bikes in those colours and fancy a change unless I could find another colour. Not sure on the thumbies, all this pushes it well over £1500.
Any more alternatives for ~£1500. Not the specialized, it's more of a toy than a workhorse.
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Sliding dropouts for future tinkering
I cannot emphasise how awesome the Alternator dropouts are - they're one of the main reasons I bought the El Mariachi to be the basis of my Tour Divide rig.
That and the fact that it was also orange. Very much so ;D
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Sliding dropouts for future tinkering
I cannot emphasise how awesome the Alternator dropouts are - they're one of the main reasons I bought the El Mariachi to be the basis of my Tour Divide rig.
That and the fact that it was also orange. Very much so ;D
These do it for me too ;D
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On One Fatty is a lot of bike for the money, but you cant put loads of extra stuff on it, so I guess that is out.
Pugsley can take all sorts of crap on it.
Mukluk , same as Pugsley. If you want mudguards on it, These (http://www.mdracingproducts.co.uk/ufo-universal-front-fender-cross-enduro-me08000) will fit, you need to make some sort of mounting but they can tak both 4" and 5" tires with clearance for mud. :thumbsup:
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Cheers Gus :thumbsup:
Black should suit it
(http://salsacycles.com/files/bikes/Mukluk_2_14_34f_1440x960.jpg)
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End of the day I think you'll be happy with whatever you end up with, certainly measured in 'smiles per mile'
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End of the day I think you'll be happy with whatever you end up with, certainly measured in 'smiles per mile'
:thumbsup:
They make you smile just looking at them, can't wait to get one off road ;D
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Bugger!
Don't think the mukluk will fit. They've only got a medium, but it's sizes as a large! The top tube is massive, approx 60cm. They recommend a small for 5'8" :'(
The 17" seat tube will be okay, but the tt is miles to big. 15" would've needed a longer seatpost too.
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any chance of trying it ?
I'm 5'9 and ride a medium Pugsley + 12 cm stem. I tried a xl model and the tt was perfect but st was far to long for me.
I've just ordered a On One Fatty frame in xl because the tt will fit and they will still be loads of clearance on the st.
I'm equipped with very short legs and a long torso, so I allways have problems finding a frame that fits perfect for me.
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Why don't you ask at the UK Fat Bike forum? http://www.ukfatbikes.co.uk You'll need to register but there are several Mukluk owners there.
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The kona is almost identical in size and says from 5'6" onwards ??? I'm always on the borderline for frame sizes, I don't like being cramped up so it may be ok. Ive checked, my 29er has a 57 ETT with a big post setback. I Know which road frame size to get but mtb frames are odd, especially when they mess with angles and have odd stack/reach.
I may be able to sit on a medium El Mariachi which is the same size to test out. I'd have gone for a medium pug too Gus, slightly shorter stem.
Tried to register on there Paul, still waiting for an approval email. They must know me ;D
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If you can get yourself to York then you're more than welcome to try out both a medium (18") Pugsley and a medium El Mariachi ...
(just to muddy the sizing waters further, I'm 6'1" ...)
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A bit too far away, ta for the offer though. 6'1" on an 18! I really think the extra 3cm on the top tube is too big for me. My last cube was an 18 with a 58ETT, 1cm more than I have now but super comfy.
I like to be stretched out, long arms!
My current 57ETT HAS ABOUT 2-3cm setback with a thomson post (to get my knees backwards on the pedal axle) and has the stem flipped down and dropped to the headset. This is effectively giving me a longer reach and top tube. This is why I'm tempted to try the mukluk.
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Over the years I've managed to formulate a fairly solid notion of what will fit me - a 56-57cm top tube with an 80mm stem suits me fine over the sort of distances that I ride, plus I have fairly short legs for my height.
I bought the 18" Pugsley because the geometry was almost exactly the same as my 18" 1x1, which is probably the most comfortable bike I've ever ridden, and sure enough it's a perfect fit. In both cases the ETT was 564mm, which was absolutely spot on.
Sizing up the El Mariachi was a bit trickier because of Salsa's sizing - they go for 'odds' whereas Surly go for 'evens', meaning that I ended up with a 17" (medium) frame which, despite looking freakishly small when I unpacked it, also fits perfectly with my 'usual' mix of kit (Thomson layback post, 80mm/10deg stem etc.)
In both cases I worked on the principle that slightly too small is better than much too big (also the reason why my Genesis is a 17.5" frame - the next size up, 19", was way too big for me)
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The other thing to consider with a fatbike is standover, especially if you're planning to ride in snow/soft sand/deep mud as you'll probably want to avoid unexpected crotch-top tube interactions. Some people recomend going a size down for this reason
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That's another confusion. The stand over is very low, even on the bigger frames they're all mid-low 70s.
I don't know wether to risk it, can always send it back or stick a 70-80mm stem on it to see. It such a good price. Where's the fishing reel & hook smiley!
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Just popping out on a job*
*to sit on a 60cm tt bike, but don't tell anyone ;)
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Just popped into halfords and sat on a 61cm tt. 60 will be fine :thumbsup:
Back on track!
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:thumbsup:
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:thumbsup: indeed
Paid for, so I've had my xmas pressies a little early.
My wife said it can't be opened until dec. 25th. Yeah, right....... ;D
I'll just leave the box in the hallway, she'll soon let me open it!
Just got to arrange a couple of days off ill next week now.
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The one that there's a picture of upthread?
I'm sure that you'll enjoy it
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That's the one.
Thanks for the advice chaps :thumbsup:
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That's the one.
Thanks for the advice chaps :thumbsup:
No problem. Only other thing you need to know (and I may be in danger of teaching you to suck eggs) is not to set the tyre pressure too high. I'm 11 stone and run at about 10-11psi
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I was going to try 10 rear and front and maybe go to 7-8 on the front if it'll take it :thumbsup:
Any tips are welcome, these are different beasts to a road bikes and even my 29er.
Still got no email from the fatbike forum!
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^^ That
Get the tyre pressure too low for the prevailing conditions and you'll get seasick pretty quickly. Trust me on this.
That said, you'll soon find out what works best for you - the only time I've had to resort to single-figure pressures is when riding on ice. Since I weigh 19 stone I'm generally in the mid to upper teens, again depending on the terrain I'm riding on. For road or hardpack use, I shoot for around 30psi - it works but the Pugsley's tyres are a bit buzzy.
Don't ride Nates on hardpack either - occasional bits of path/gravel/whatever are OK, but make a habit of it and you'll destroy the tread pretty quickly.
Also, invest in a decent frame pump if you don't already have one - I bought a Topeak Mountain Morph for dedicated phat use; it still takes a while to pump up a flat tyre, but not nearly as long as it would take with my off-road pump of choice (Lezyne Alloy Drive)
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The nates will be use on sand sections, mud, mud a bit more mud and a road section between woods I use.
What tyres for tarmac and Landrover tracks? These are my main bikepacking surfaces.
I've got a road morph :thumbsup:
Has anyone tried a co2 cannister, will it get a tyre near to 8-10psi before I start to use the pump?
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The nates will be use on sand sections, mud, mud a bit more mud and a road section between woods I use.
What tyres for tarmac and Landrover tracks? These are my main bikepacking surfaces.
Knards.
Has anyone tried a co2 cannister, will it get a tyre near to 8-10psi before I start to use the pump?
Yes and 'hahahahahaha you must be bloody joking', respectively.
Unless your CO2 canisters are freakishly big, save 'em for more normal sized tyres.
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Knards :thumbsup:
Looks like I'll be sweating a little if I flat ;D
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Vee rubber vee mission (http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/TYVEVMFB/vee-rubber-vee-mission-fat-bike-folding-tyre) might be another possibility, and cheaper :thumbsup: or On-One B.S.C. Type 1 (http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/TYOOBSC1/on-one-bsc-type-1)
Btw. I find Surly Black floyd are freakingly scary to ride on, they nearly kills me every time I try to turn. :hand:
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Vee rubber vee mission (http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/TYVEVMFB/vee-rubber-vee-mission-fat-bike-folding-tyre) might be another possibility, and cheaper :thumbsup: or On-One B.S.C. Type 1 (http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/TYOOBSC1/on-one-bsc-type-1)
My take on the 29er version of the On-One slick is here: http://36x17.org.uk/wp/?p=443 - tl;dr: I like 'em.
The Phat Version[tm] is on the post-injury shopping list.
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They are a good price. Looks like I've got my summer tyres sorted :thumbsup:
Was expecting to pay £60 plus per tyre, these are a nice surprise.
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At some time in the future I'll go tubeless but for now I'll be running tubes. What options for tubes do I have?
Surly are £10-£11. Can I use 3" dh tubes or are there better options?
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At some time in the future I'll go tubeless but for now I'll be running tubes. What options for tubes do I have?
Surly are £10-£11. Can I use 3" dh tubes or are there better options?
Unless you're in serious weight weenie mode (in which case why didn't you buy a Beargrease? ;) ) then stick with the Surly Toobs. Although they're heavy and not particularly cheap they are pretty robust. Some folks have had a certain degree of success using Maxxis DH tubes or the Bontrager 2.5-2.8 tubes. YMMV, although I imagine that you may be more prone to flats.
I notice that On-One are selling 24" fat tubes but I couldn't find any 26" ones. May be worth keeping an eye out, though.
I think a couple of the Surly guys are running Rolling Darryl rims tubeless, so whilst it's not 'officially' possible it's certainly doable.
ETA: bear in mind also that the rims will probably be drilled for Presta valves. Mine certainly were.
ETA2: This: http://fat-bike.com/2012/03/lighter-fat-bike-tube-alternatives/
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I'll get a couple of toobs from Tim at sideways. I can't see any 26 tubes on on-ones site either, wonder what they're using on the fattys ???
The pic of the bike shows presta too :thumbsup:
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I've got some Specialized 3" tubes ready for the next visitation, actually might have one in the front at the moment...
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:thumbsup:
Think I'll get a couple of surlys, for heavy duty bikepacking over some rocky stuff. I'll also get a couple of the specialized 3" for carrying in my frame bag or camelbak on day rides, they'll be enough to get me home if I need them.
No doubt I'll be back later when I've thought of something else ;D
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They do sell them
http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/TUOO26MTB/on-one-26-mtb-inner-tube
And these half the price but same size
http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/TUKEIDH/kenda-dh-innertube
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Ooooohhhhhhh!
It's been posted 8)
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Any opinions on the Surly Larry tyres?
They look okay for trails and tarmac. Super soft and wear quickly or hard compound?
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Good on the front, lousy on the rear - has a tendency to self-steer if you're not careful, particularly at very low pressures.
Larry (f) and Endomorph (r) was a fairly stock combo until relatively recently (ie. until the Endomorph was discontinued). Nowadays most folks seem to run Nate f+r for the mucky stuff or Knard f+r for more hardpack-type riding.
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Don't forget the On One Floater, not as much grip as the Nate but also rolls better (and quieter on the road!). Only done a couple rides with Nate (f) and Floater (r) after having a pair of Nates. The Floater let go a couple of times when the Nate would have held on but did so gently, I'm not good enough to say that it did it predictably :)
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Looked at the knards yesterday. They are reasonably priced too at less than £50 for 120tpi. The floater looks too good to be true at the price. If it works though I'll buy it, not a brand snob. I know the nates are going to get eaten away when I head to wales.
These will probably be good for an autumn tyre. It's still hard on the welsh trails, most of its rock anyway. There are a few miles on tarmac too between the rides I do when bivvying. The Scottish trails are very similar, don't go up there in the middle of winter to see how muddy they get!
The worst trails are Hanchurch, sandy and very muddy. The nates will be great for this and should clear the mud off the tread easily.
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I think that someone ^ is hooked ;)
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;D
It's not even arrived yet!
I've got the pedals, saints, sitting here in their shiny new box.
I don't think I'll sleep tonight, like a kid at Christmas. No doubt I'll be checking the tracking every 10 minutes tomorrow too :P
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Bugger!
It's not coming until tomorrow :-\
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:(
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Pushed this afternoons work to tomorrow too, so I could tinker. Was planning a night ride tonight.
I won't be in until late tomorrow now.
My wife says she's going to hide it somewhere until Christmas :o
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My wife says she's going to hide it somewhere until Christmas :o
Good luck with that ...
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I said that too, she just told me to watch this space :o
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Nipped out to do a job earlier and saw the postie, so I gave him a wave. He flagged me down and said I ve got a parcel for you, a Wiggle box, I hadn't ordered anything ???
Slung it into the back of the van until I got back home, wife saw me carying it into the house and got a bit angry. She's secretly ordered me some kit for my new bike and it was going to be surprise, the posties in for a roasting. He's only ever stopped me to give me anything 2-3 times in the 10 years he's been delivering to me in his van :demon:
So I now have:
Saint pedals, I'd already paid for these
New giro helmet in matt black, she said my other didn't match, it is bright blue.
New long finger alpinestars gloves in black with a burnt orange highlight
A new cambium slate c17
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
I'll take her out for a nice meal on Saturday to say thanks :-*
Just need the bike now!
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I said that too, she just told me to watch this space :o
Well?
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It arrived at 9.30 this morning :thumbsup:
I'm still at work though :'(
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Wheels on, front brake on, cables and other bits adjusted, torqued up, saddl and pedals on :thumbsup:
Just tinkering a bit then it's out tonight!
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k131/djb1971/e6ef042db66d3ba4b081ccff2e73ef8b.jpg)
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Wheels on, front brake on, cables and other bits adjusted, torqued up, saddl and pedals on :thumbsup:
Just tinkering a bit then it's out tonight!
Beats sleeping on the sofa, I suppose :P
Next step - hydraulic brakes ... best upgrade I ever did on my Pug.
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Can't wait, it's as comfy as a sofa ;D
I quite like bb7s, I've set them up and they feel great. I've also got a bag full of pads etc for them. If they're a bit hairy out on the hills, I may stick some xts on. Planetx had some on sale the other day for £39.99 but I hesitated and they sold out >:(
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Sweeeet! Have fun!
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Wheels on, front brake on, cables and other bits adjusted, torqued up, saddl and pedals on :thumbsup:
Just tinkering a bit then it's out tonight!
Drool! I want one of those! :thumbsup: Enjoy the maiden ride!
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^ that looks fab! Enjoy the first (and all subsequent) ride(s) :thumbsup:
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Thanks all :thumbsup:
Major tinkering done so it can go out now. Fettling session will be tomorrow and Saturday and Sunday.........and so on ;D
It's off to Wales next week too for its first big outing.
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WOW!
what a ride, just popped out to do the post, through my local woods first :thumbsup:
It's like riding a trials bike, but slower ;D
Glad I didn't have the size down, it would've been to cramped from the saddle to bars. The tyres sound like a bag of angry hornets on tarmac but great on mud. Love the way you can still move in thick mud, yes it's now filthy! SRAM type 2 isn't as good as shimanos shadow plus, it still slaps on really rough stuff. The bb7s have worked perfectly, even on loose gravel descents :thumbsup:
Now the bad.
Returning home I heard a car slow behind me, it could easily pass, thought it was somebody just thinking wtf is he riding. It eventually passed me, a mile down the road it was parked. This is on dark country lanes. I passed it and there was two lads in it, they sat and watched me pass, gawping at the bike. Thought nothing more of it, then at the bottom of a long hill, again a car slowed behind me, turned to look and it was them. I turned off to the right, they followed. It's unusual for cars to turn here unless they live in the street. I then turned right again, it's a dead end, they followed but had to stop at the end. I carried on through a narrow pathway and headed for home.
Paranoid or thieving bastards seeing where I live?
I always go this way home and always have done for this very reason.
Still luv my new bike :thumbsup:
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You'll get used to it - when I rode Pugsley to work a couple of years ago people were actually taking photographs. I'd not worry about theft either - something like that will stick out like a turd on a snooker table. You should still take photographs and make a note of the frame number, though.
Welcome to Fat Club. The first rule of Fat Club is: you do not talk about Fat Club ;D
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You're right, it does stand out a bit!
Maybe the first rule of fat club is the reason I can't join fat bikes uk, still no approval email. I've tried three times with different emails and passwords etc.. Next time you're on give them a kick to get the approvals done :thumbsup:
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You're right, it does stand out a bit!
Maybe the first rule of fat club is the reason I can't join fat bikes uk, still no approval email. I've tried three times with different emails and passwords etc.. Next time you're on give them a kick to get the approvals done :thumbsup:
What username did you use there? If you let me know I'll get you fastracked ;)
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The ultimate fat-bike proving ground:
http://salsacycles.com/culture/iceland_land_of_fire_ice_fatbike_dreams_part_two
:demon:
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Cheers Paul, username bumper :thumbsup:
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The ultimate fat-bike proving ground:
http://salsacycles.com/culture/iceland_land_of_fire_ice_fatbike_dreams_part_two
:demon:
That's just like my Welsh outings ;D
Don't fancy the ice cold foot bath though!
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OK I've PMed the guy responsible
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Cheers Paul ;)
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Anybody use the mucky nutz fat face or gut fender?
I don't want to put full guards on, just something to keep my face clean. I got plastered in mud today, really plastered in it!
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Anybody use the mucky nutz fat face or gut fender?
I don't want to put full guards on, just something to keep my face clean. I got plastered in mud today, really plastered in it!
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/pdw-daves-mud-shovel-front-mudguard-prod30660/
(the Dave in question is Dave Gray of Surly ...)
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As Interzen says the pew mud shovel is the way to go, they also do a rear version.
Only downside of a fatbike is that nobody likes to ride behind you because of the mud or dust the rear tyre throws up.
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Looks great. How is is for stopping front fling?
Not bothered about the rear. I even had a job drinking from the camelbak today, it was covered, as was my jacket. I had nowhere to even wipe it clean.
Took my glasses off because it was a blackout, then lost the bloody things, fell out out of my camelback open top pocket. Luckily they're only £3 bolle jobbies.
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Pretty effective, coupled with a bender fender it stops the majority of the muck. Not 100% but should stop the face pack effect.
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:thumbsup:
I'll get one.
My wife will be happy too, I dropped about 20kg of mud by the back door today. Hope the neighbours weren't peaking, I had to strip off before I was allowed inside.
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Top tip for the Bender Fender - the velcro strips that come with it are useless; use zip-ties instead. Also, the Bender Fender 2.1 is plenty wide enough to use even on a Moonlander fork.
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I think I've got one in the shed, the others on the c'dale :thumbsup:
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Todays test
On one floater 6psi in the rear tyre & Big fat Larry 4.5psi in the front
10 miles in loose sand, they performed well but I was completely knackered after the ride.
But I left the beach with a big ;D
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b231/gus69/10645272_10204835014020714_8773992649441892348_n_zps6e23d797.jpg)
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:thumbsup: I can't wait to try sand, there's a couple of nice stretches I have planned in Scotland.
Not on sand but mud this weekend, 10psi. It was too high on the front, will drop it to 8. Hard work on tarmac though with nards!
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Just fitted a mucky nutz fat face fender, the normal one was half the width of the tyre. This thing gives great coverage, it's really wide. It's got a double fork fitting, they fold together to make the fender bend with the tyre.
If it doesn't cover enough, I'll get a mud shovel too.