Birmingham to Den Haag

[nikki]

So, if you were going to try hard to make 2017 the year you took up the offer of friends (living in Den Haag) to go cycling with them, how would you go about getting there (and why)?

* The touring from Den Haag would probably be a long weekend, not involving tents
* I could probably take up to a fortnight over it all in all. This could possibly involve tents, but would have to be reasonably low budget whatever the approach

[Kim]

Bike to Mordor Central, BloodyTrains to Harwich, Ferry to Hoek van Holland, bike to final destination.  Bit of a no-brainer, surely?

Oh, wait, you want to take a fortnight for the trip?  Right, well.  Erm.  BloodyTrains to some ferry or other, because Eurostars and aeroplanes are a royal PITA with a bike.  Use as little Calais as possible.  Plan may contain Belgium or traces of Belgium.

[Polar Bear]

Wait until May.

Bike to Long Itch, mini tour to Suffolk in the week after Long Itch, bike to Harwich, etc., etc.

It's a very easy ride from The Hook to Den Haag.

[nikki]

There would be a certain satisfaction in cycling from home, although I'm wondering if I should take the opportunity to experience more cycling abroad.

LF1 with a headwind probably isn't nice, though!

[Kim]

LF1 with a headwind probably isn't nice, though!

Velomobile.   

[Cudzoziemiec]

Given a fortnight, I'd go to cycle.travel (or similar) and plot a meandering route through all my favourite bits of Britain between Birmingham and chose Channel or North Sea port, then similar the other side. Because the final bit from Den Haag would be tentless, maybe I'd try to do the whole thing lightweight. No tent, use Warmshowers, friends, hostels, cheaper B&Bs. Not bus shelters unless you're really desperate! Minimal kit. Maximal space for bringing back Dutch goodies (but nothing that will get you into trouble!).

[Kim]

This would seem like a good time to mention https://www.vriendenopdefiets.nl/en/

(Not that there's really any point in going lightweight in .nl, on account of the general lack of geography.)

[Vince]

The Harwich-Esbjerg ferry is running again, which opens up the possibility of a Denmark, Germany and Holland trip, with a quick return via The Hook of Holland. To me this would be preferable to France and Belgium.

Sorry, that was a bit of gossip on Trip Advisor.

[Wowbagger]

Bugger. You got me quite excited for a moment.

[Jakob W]

Following LF1 from France to the Netherlands should mean the prevailing winds are tailwinds, no? I'm hoping to be able to do a long weekend's lightweight tour visiting Bruges and Antwerp this year; my current thinking is day 1 trains Brum-Dover, ferry to Dunkirk, get to Bruges, day 2 to Antwerp, day 3 to Hook and overnight ferry to Harwich, then trains home; should give c. 100k days and 3 nights away.

[nikki]

LF1 with a headwind probably isn't nice, though!

Velomobile.   

Now wondering what I could use to molish a fairing out of. Lid of the Orrery, perhaps?

I know the prevailing winds are tailwinds, but I've also read a few accounts of people who got the exception to the rule and really struggled.

I'm not very bike fit atm and think I could probably do 40 mile days fully loaded, maybe a bit more travelling light, but I can't picture myself doing consecutive 100k days. All assuming vaguely conducive weather, which I'm not sure is a wise assumption to make (for me)!

I think we'll likely be using vriendenopdefiets from Den Haag. I should have a proper look at Warm Showers, too.

Observation: I seem to be reacting against the idea of train faff on the way out, but I might be more open to it on the way back again.
I'm still undecided between Harwich-Hoek or Dover-Dunkirk, though I suspect not doing LF1 or similar would feel like a cop out. Hmmmm.

[Kim]

I'm not very bike fit atm and think I could probably do 40 mile days fully loaded, maybe a bit more travelling light, but I can't picture myself doing consecutive 100k days. All assuming vaguely conducive weather, which I'm not sure is a wise assumption to make (for me)!

Consecutive 100k days of pan flat didn't seem to do me any favours.  It's easy riding, but relentless.

Observation: I seem to be reacting against the idea of train faff on the way out, but I might be more open to it on the way back again.
I'm still undecided between Harwich-Hoek or Dover-Dunkirk, though I suspect not doing LF1 or similar would feel like a cop out. Hmmmm.

Harwich and Hoek are considerably nicer ferry ports than Dover (which is a twisty maze of arrgh).  Dunkirk is fine, but it's behind an oil terminal about an hour's not-particularly-pleasant^[1] ride on the wrong side of town.  Trains to Harwich may involve changing platforms at Manningtree, the station with no level access.  Trains are now running to Dover Priory again, after prolonged engineering works, so that's doable.  Consider how long you want to spend on the ferry.  Harwich-Hoek is a proper overnight job, which means €€€ and/or sleep deprivation.


_{[1] It's relative.  Probably okay if you've just come from British roads.}

[Kim]

From another place:

Anybody thinking of going to the continent this year from Harwich on Stenaline may wish to check out their January sale using code "Jan1" up to 50% off.

[Jakob W]

I thought you had to book a cabin on the overnight Harwich-Hoek ferry, or was that only in the other direction?

[nikki]

Either direction, as far as I can make out.

"Jan1" is coming up as invalid, but "sale" currently gives a discount.
I don't think I'll know my dates for a while yet - wonder how transferable the reduced price tickets are...

[Auntie Helen]

Yes, you have to book a cabin on the Harwich-HvH overnight crossing, but it's £39 or something which is a very cheap night's accommodation with en-suite and it is what I always choose now (I leave my car at HvH and go as a foot passenger, which is cheap). It's definitely worth it. The special offer may only be valid if you take a car (that is often part of the small print).

The ride up from HvH to den Haag is lovely (I did it with Vince in a sandstorm going the other way - that was an experience!)

Also if you want a bit more pedalling you can get the train to Manningtree and rather than changing trains, ride the NCN51 to Harwich to the port.

I personally would hate to do Dover by bike - it's bad enough by car. Harwich is much easier, particularly with the NCN route which is on quiet roads and actually reasonably OK.

[Auntie Helen]

Either direction, as far as I can make out.

"Jan1" is coming up as invalid, but "sale" currently gives a discount.
I don't think I'll know my dates for a while yet - wonder how transferable the reduced price tickets are...

You can pay for Flexi and then you can transfer them, but I suspect the discount is less than the extra cost for Flexi. Although I tend to use Flexi because you never know what will happen and it's only £6 or so more.

If you are transferring them to a more expensive sailing date then you will have to pay more.

[nikki]

Just clicking around for random dates, one person and a bike, it looks like a decent discount if you choose the right day/time.

Cheaper night crossings seem to be Tuesday and Wednesday, with the day crossings having a few more options for that size discount.

[Kim]

I personally would hate to do Dover by bike - it's bad enough by car. Harwich is much easier, particularly with the NCN route which is on quiet roads and actually reasonably OK.

Somewhere I have cheatnotes for a quest route from the port to Dover Priory station.  It's Sustrans-style confusion rather than hideous lorry-infested trunk roads, ie. fine if you aren't in a rush.  NCN1 out of Dover must be a horrendous shock to FOREIGNS with continental ideas about cycle routes, thobut.

Cycling to/from Dover looks like it's worth giving a miss.  There's a Bastard Hill, if nothing else.

[Kim]

Yes, you have to book a cabin on the Harwich-HvH overnight crossing, but it's £39 or something which is a very cheap night's accommodation with en-suite and it is what I always choose now (I leave my car at HvH and go as a foot passenger, which is cheap). It's definitely worth it.

The cabins are rather good.  Just don't rely on actually getting any sleep, unless you know you can sleep on ships.  I didn't notice the vibration until I lay down, at which point I discovered that it was almost but not quite entirely unlike the vibration of a car/train/plane, and found it distractingly nauseating.   

[bhoot]

The cabins are rather good.  Just don't rely on actually getting any sleep, unless you know you can sleep on ships.  I didn't notice the vibration until I lay down, at which point I discovered that it was almost but not quite entirely unlike the vibration of a car/train/plane, and found it distractingly nauseating.   

Maybe I am just someone who likes ships, because I have travelled overnight many times and normally sleep pretty well as the beds are comfy and the slight vibration doesn't bother me.
It's a great way to travel, and the cycle routes and signs as you exit the port in HvH never fail to bring a smile to my face.

[Veloman]

Maybe I am just someone who likes ships, because I have travelled overnight many times and normally sleep pretty well as the beds are comfy and the slight vibration doesn't bother me.
It's a great way to travel, and the cycle routes and signs as you exit the port in HvH never fail to bring a smile to my face.

I agree with the above comment and it was after chatting to the orange tandem team that I went from Midlands to Harwich by train (apart from cycling across London) and then overnight on ferry in cabin. Took tandem and stoker who thought it was fantastic, including the facilities in the cabin. (They had previously suffered Newhaven-Dieppe crossing with no cabin both ways a month earlier!). No hesitation in doing the same again and a longer trip in a more cycling friendly country would be my way of spending the time rather than cycling to Harwich from that Brum. And I would always avoid cycling to Dover if I needed to do a route that started in Calais: train to Dover then short ride to ferry terminal.

[nikki]

I'm still traumatised by a family 'holiday' at least 25 years ago that involved an overnighter to Calais. *shudder*
No cabin that time, so at least that would be an improvement!

And I would always avoid cycling to Dover if I needed to do a route that started in Calais

Could you expand on this a little for me please Veloman?
Is it just because you'd rather spend the time a more cycling friendly country, or other reasons?

[Butterfly]

Could you expand on this a little for me please Veloman?
Is it just because you'd rather spend the time a more cycling friendly country, or other reasons?

I would say that there are a couple of downsides in cycling to Dover - mainly crossing London, which takes a lot of time that you could be cycling somewhere nicer. Another is that you either have to ride along route one or thereabouts, which contains Sittingbourne, or you have to work hard to avoid too much North Downs. East Kent country roads are lovely, West Kent  are not so much (Declaration of interest: I'm from East Kent).

There are routes that are possible, either going North of London and crossing the river later or going South and travelling through the Golf Club belt.

[Veloman]

And I would always avoid cycling to Dover if I needed to do a route that started in Calais

Could you expand on this a little for me please Veloman?
Is it just because you'd rather spend the time a more cycling friendly country, or other reasons?

The former: more time in a more cycling friendly (IMO) country on wonderful cycle tracks and paths of the type also being currently discussed on YACF (V thingy between Belgium and the Luxo place which looks great). Also, lots of quiet roads in places such as France and Belgium where cycling is more within the DNA of the land.

I have often used the Dover-Calais route by car and Dover port is massive with triple digit piers to be directed to and an awful lot of very large lorries.  Not fun IMO even when you might be cycling within a nicely marked lane.  The experience at places like Harwich, Newhaven, Poole, Portsmouth etc that are alternatives for crossing the water to our continental neighbours is totally different as the services are so infrequent and everything is done on a smaller scale: think rural village experience compared to major city.

It was fun at Harwich cycling up a concrete helix ramp in order to access the ferry with a rather laden tandem and inexperienced stoker! Once off the ferry at Harwich it was straight onto great cycle facilities and very close to the town, unlike Dover where you are faced with very busy infrastructure designed to move cars/lorries quickly away from  a port that operates 24/7.  Return from Harwich was also very low key in terms of boarding etc.

Finally, just read my original post and your reference to check I had answered everything and I should have said I would only travel via Dover if I was doing a route that started from Calais (eg The Calais-Brindisi Perm) and I would take train to Dover rather than cycle because of routes available.