Author Topic: PBP Registration website  (Read 86991 times)

SPB

Re: PBP Registration website
« Reply #250 on: 30 January, 2019, 03:01:22 pm »

It's not that simple. There is a worldwide network of Audax-Randonee associations. All of them promote rides to the ACP formula. Paris-Brest Paris is essentially their Olympics, and PBP is the pinnacle of their sport. All the Brevets around the world are run by volunteers, they can't be commercial.

PBP itself is run by volunteers, with input from professional caterers. Those volunteers are mainly local. Participants pay for food on the way round, unlike LEL, where you've paid for the food beforehand.

The result is that if there are a lot of people dropping out along the way, there's a lot of unsold food and wastage. The same is true of LEL, but food's already been paid for, so it's a problem of waste, not of finance.

The qualification is to try to ensure that riders don't drop out. More people are capable of qualifying than there are places. So far PBP hasn't ever sold out, but the pre-qualification system seems the fairest way of dealing with that possibility, and prefers those riders around the world, who participate in ACP-sanctioned events.

ACP's loyalty should initially be to Audax organisations around the world, and they are growing fastest in Asia. I think they've got the formula right. It does make it more difficult than before for someone who has picked up on PBP from articles in magazines and online, and isn't working their way through the Audax system.

The system ensures that someone in Thailand, Alaska or New Zealand knows they have a place before they start their qualifiers, and can book tickets in advance. It's not designed for someone in the UK who fancies giving PBP a go, and doesn't need to plan very far ahead.

I think you're confusing my observation for some sort of whinge.   It wasn't.  I was merely explaining why I'd questioned a poster earlier who'd supposed there'd be enough places for everyone who wanted to pre-register.

Re: PBP Registration website
« Reply #251 on: 30 January, 2019, 03:07:07 pm »
I'm just pointing out that there are three types of rider, rather than two. The 'Old Guard' who are Audaxers who've often done PBP already. A group who are attracted by PBP from outside Audax, and Audax riders around the world who are establishing their own tradition.

Thailand has the largest number of BRMs in the world, and that's pretty recent. They benefit from the certainty of pre-qualification.

SPB

Re: PBP Registration website
« Reply #252 on: 30 January, 2019, 03:10:34 pm »
Ah, sorry, got you now.

Phil W

Re: PBP Registration website
« Reply #253 on: 30 January, 2019, 03:22:46 pm »
I'm just pointing out that there are three types of rider, rather than two. The 'Old Guard' who are Audaxers who've often done PBP already. A group who are attracted by PBP from outside Audax, and Audax riders around the world who are establishing their own tradition.

Thailand has the largest number of BRMs in the world, and that's pretty recent. They benefit from the certainty of pre-qualification.

Funny how you can be called the old guard in less than four years.

Re: PBP Registration website
« Reply #254 on: 30 January, 2019, 03:39:29 pm »
I'm just pointing out that there are three types of rider, rather than two. The 'Old Guard' who are Audaxers who've often done PBP already. A group who are attracted by PBP from outside Audax, and Audax riders around the world who are establishing their own tradition.

Thailand has the largest number of BRMs in the world, and that's pretty recent. They benefit from the certainty of pre-qualification.

Funny how you can be called the old guard in less than four years.

You only need to do it once to be called an ancien[ne].
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: PBP Registration website
« Reply #255 on: 30 January, 2019, 04:00:57 pm »
I interviewed the man who handles the pre-qualifiers and entries in 2015, when I was picking up our press credentials. He's Jean-Gualbert Faburel from the ACP. He liaises with all the various Audax organisations around the world, and has done a lot to expand the PBP 'family'. Here's some video, from a film about the variety of nations.
https://youtu.be/22alIQ16uxc?t=168

The entry process can be seen as complex, but it has to accommodate the relationships between the different national groups. The historic balance was 2,500 French, then 350 to 500 or so each from USA, Germany and UK, then cascading numbers from other nationalities. That balance is changing.

This site shows that in detail.
http://shprung.com/pbp/?mode=country

Re: PBP Registration website
« Reply #256 on: 30 January, 2019, 04:56:40 pm »

The entry process can be seen as complex, but it has to accommodate the relationships between the different national groups. The historic balance was 2,500 French, then 350 to 500 or so each from USA, Germany and UK, then cascading numbers from other nationalities. That balance is changing.

This site shows that in detail.
http://shprung.com/pbp/?mode=country

The Asian, Indian and South American sub continents have a very high DNF rate, I wonder why, can't be the heat!

Re: PBP Registration website
« Reply #257 on: 30 January, 2019, 05:09:51 pm »

The entry process can be seen as complex, but it has to accommodate the relationships between the different national groups. The historic balance was 2,500 French, then 350 to 500 or so each from USA, Germany and UK, then cascading numbers from other nationalities. That balance is changing.

This site shows that in detail.
http://shprung.com/pbp/?mode=country

The Asian, Indian and South American sub continents have a very high DNF rate, I wonder why, can't be the heat!

The temperature range, coupled with the amount of climbing. They have no experience of climbing in low temperatures, and end up boiling in their waterproofs, and freezing on the descents.

Managing your clothing isn't a big issue when it's 35 degrees during the day, and 30 at night. It is when it's 32 during the day and 5 at night, in choppy terrain.

It's also interesting to look at the distribution of countries in the groups. Later times correlate with shorter pre-qualifiers. Which brings us back to the subject in hand.

marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
Re: PBP Registration website
« Reply #258 on: 30 January, 2019, 05:14:01 pm »

The entry process can be seen as complex, but it has to accommodate the relationships between the different national groups. The historic balance was 2,500 French, then 350 to 500 or so each from USA, Germany and UK, then cascading numbers from other nationalities. That balance is changing.

This site shows that in detail.
http://shprung.com/pbp/?mode=country

The Asian, Indian and South American sub continents have a very high DNF rate, I wonder why, can't be the heat!

The opposite last time for sure.

It was pretty cool at night for August on the first couple of nights - everyone's garmins etc read differently, but probably down at 6-8 degrees, which is pretty damn cold for anyone who's rarely experienced anything less than 20-odd degrees!

Same deal if we went to ride in SE Asia etc. - we're not acclimated to the humidity and so on.

For US riders, I think you can see the difference in finish rates between riders from the areas like the Pacific North West (used to conditions not unlike Western Europe) and those from the very hot (and either dry or ridiculously humid) states.

Edited to add (and going further off topic) - I have no doubt that the stats will improve for the riders from SE Asia, India etc. I am sure that the riders from 2015 will now be advising prospective riders on the need for a lot of warm layers etc. for riders not used to cooler weather.
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
Re: PBP Registration website
« Reply #259 on: 30 January, 2019, 05:22:30 pm »
There was a graph of pre-registrations on the PBP Facebook:



Their comment:

"After the second preregistration wave, we can assume that it won't be possible to enter PBP'19 without preregistration, ie without a BRM ridden between November 2017 and October 2018. After the 600km preregistrations, only 2000 slots will remain available."

So, they are predicting 2000 places available at the 400km pre-reg.

I certainly still wouldn't rule out getting a place with a 300km pre-reg.

I still think that some 200km riders with fast fingers will get a pre-reg.

What happens from there, I don't know; but I think even if I were not pre-registered, I'd carry on regardless and work towards my SR - places will open up later in the season, I have no doubt.
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

Re: PBP Registration website
« Reply #260 on: 30 January, 2019, 05:39:44 pm »
The upshot of all this is that publications should have been flagging up PBP as an achievable challenge in early 2018.

The sensible advice is to do an SR in the year before PBP, to find out if you like the idea, and to prepare for another, at more rigid times, the following year.

Re: PBP Registration website
« Reply #261 on: 30 January, 2019, 07:43:04 pm »
The sensible advice is to do an SR in the year before PBP, to find out if you like the idea, and to prepare for another, at more rigid times, the following year.

And to see if you can actually do that kind of riding.

I've a friend who has no problems getting round a 200 but just can't do 300s (or longer obviously) as he just can't handle prolonged night riding as it messes with his eyes for some reason.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

bairn again

Re: PBP Registration website
« Reply #262 on: 30 January, 2019, 08:48:33 pm »
The sensible advice is to do an SR in the year before PBP, to find out if you like the idea, and to prepare for another, at more rigid times, the following year.
:thumbsup:  ...and make sure that your 600 is a BRM event and not one of those easy DIY 600s!   

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: PBP Registration website
« Reply #263 on: 30 January, 2019, 09:12:50 pm »
The sensible advice is to do an SR in the year before PBP, to find out if you like the idea, and to prepare for another, at more rigid times, the following year.

And to see if you can actually do that kind of riding.

I've a friend who has no problems getting round a 200 but just can't do 300s (or longer obviously) as he just can't handle prolonged night riding as it messes with his eyes for some reason.

Night Riding is interesting, some people seem to just not hack it at all, others need some sleep during the hours of darkness and some can just batter on through the night ;D

It always surprised me that the track was much much quieter at 2am on the Strathpuffer that it was at 10pm, I thought the whole point was to ride through the darkness and pop out the other side for a last lap or two in the early daylight.  Late evening you'd see the hillside lit up on the climb to the swivel chair, and lines of light descending dog dodgers, but 2am it's often be the odd clump of riders going at similar paces followed by the odd sole light.

Relentless always felt similar, though not as visually obvious because it's not got big open sections where you can see the lights on the hill from miles around, but not having "RIDER" shouted at you every other minute by someone with no fitness as you discovered when you flew past them on the fire road was one of the bits I liked at night; the really good technical and fit riders were always very nice and polite about getting past day or night.


Eye problems are another matter though, my Colobomas mean I have issues with Glare due to the light sensitivity from to the extra aperture size and slow response to it, but there's upsides to that too.  I don't seem to suffer from excess eye strain and tiredness because of it though.

Re: PBP Registration website
« Reply #264 on: 30 January, 2019, 09:24:35 pm »
Date   Time limit   Available places
18/08   80h00   617
18/08   90h00   1205
19/08   84h00   399

The number of available 90 hour places has gone up to 1226. It this trend continues there will be space for absolutely everyone.

And now it looks like 150 places have been moved from 80 hr to 90 hr?

Date    Time limit    Available places
18/08    80h00    451
18/08    90h00    1366
19/08    84h00    371

Re: PBP Registration website
« Reply #265 on: 30 January, 2019, 09:29:45 pm »
There was a graph of pre-registrations on the PBP Facebook:



Their comment:

"After the second preregistration wave, we can assume that it won't be possible to enter PBP'19 without preregistration, ie without a BRM ridden between November 2017 and October 2018. After the 600km preregistrations, only 2000 slots will remain available."

So, they are predicting 2000 places available at the 400km pre-reg.

I certainly still wouldn't rule out getting a place with a 300km pre-reg.

I still think that some 200km riders with fast fingers will get a pre-reg.

What happens from there, I don't know; but I think even if I were not pre-registered, I'd carry on regardless and work towards my SR - places will open up later in the season, I have no doubt.

^
This

SPB

Re: PBP Registration website
« Reply #266 on: 30 January, 2019, 10:02:12 pm »

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: PBP Registration website
« Reply #267 on: 30 January, 2019, 10:25:43 pm »
Some of the comments on Facebook are ridiculous

There's one along the lines of "You should know you had this much demand, you should make extra spaces". That it could be fun to sit and pick through the flaws in if you had enough info and time.
The obvious one being the capacity allowed by the french authorities, the ability to provide the services required for riders at the scale required etc. etc. etc.

It's hard enough feeding lunch and tea to 80 cars worth of drivers and navigators, and 20 marshals and officials on Dad's targa rally, getting them through tests and regularities reasonably and having enough venues to cope through the day.  What's worse is when snowfall prevents it running, and we've had to completely re-organize it for a second attempt later in the year as you're starting from scratch with a much shorter timescale.
I now just sit in a car at the back of the field, collect clocks and time cards and have what's left of the sandwiches at lunch and of the steak pie at the end.


Once you hit the natural/official limit of what you can provide in a single running, you would need to run two, and that needs double the effort and really double the staff and all other sorts of things...
like people saying  "The August PBP is the real one, the May one isn't."


Also noticed somepeople saying they said to ride a 200...
I remember it was along the lines of "ride a 400, or a longer BRM you can as we're expecting high demand"

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: PBP Registration website
« Reply #268 on: 30 January, 2019, 10:32:42 pm »
PBP wasn't always in August, the date has wandered a bit. It settled on late August when the event grew big enough to require the infrastructure of a large school for each control is a minimum.

PBP Audax tends to have multiple start dates, often months apart. Their peloton size is limited by the need to simultaneously feed and/or accommodate the entire field at each control.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: PBP Registration website
« Reply #269 on: 30 January, 2019, 10:41:01 pm »
It's clear that PBP wants to allow those who enter should be able finish. Hence quotas and qualifiers and now pre-qualfiers. Now they have hard data re the late entries in 2015 and the DNF rate.. so if I was unable to pre qualify I'd still do a BRM SR... And perhaps sense will prevail.

Ben T

Re: PBP Registration website
« Reply #270 on: 30 January, 2019, 10:54:36 pm »
Is there a definition of “special”?
Anything that isn't a normal, two wheeled, upright bike I guess?

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: PBP Registration website
« Reply #271 on: 30 January, 2019, 11:01:18 pm »
PBP wasn't always in August, the date has wandered a bit. It settled on late August when the event grew big enough to require the infrastructure of a large school for each control is a minimum.

PBP Audax tends to have multiple start dates, often months apart. Their peloton size is limited by the need to simultaneously feed and/or accommodate the entire field at each control.

Whatever, it's an example of human pettiness.

Phil W

Re: PBP Registration website
« Reply #272 on: 30 January, 2019, 11:17:35 pm »
Some of the comments on Facebook are ridiculous

There's one along the lines of "You should know you had this much demand, you should make extra spaces". That it could be fun to sit and pick through the flaws in if you had enough info and time.
The obvious one being the capacity allowed by the french authorities, the ability to provide the services required for riders at the scale required etc. etc. etc.

It's hard enough feeding lunch and tea to 80 cars worth of drivers and navigators, and 20 marshals and officials on Dad's targa rally, getting them through tests and regularities reasonably and having enough venues to cope through the day.  What's worse is when snowfall prevents it running, and we've had to completely re-organize it for a second attempt later in the year as you're starting from scratch with a much shorter timescale.
I now just sit in a car at the back of the field, collect clocks and time cards and have what's left of the sandwiches at lunch and of the steak pie at the end.


Once you hit the natural/official limit of what you can provide in a single running, you would need to run two, and that needs double the effort and really double the staff and all other sorts of things...
like people saying  "The August PBP is the real one, the May one isn't."


Also noticed somepeople saying they said to ride a 200...
I remember it was along the lines of "ride a 400, or a longer BRM you can as we're expecting high demand"

Here is a copy (I saved it away at the time) of the original PBP poster they produced but early 2018 they did say a minimum of a 400 BRM was recommended. Regardless as you have highlighted appears to be petty comments based on some mis placed sense of entitlement.  FB, Twitter etc. seems to encourage pack behaviour.


LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: PBP Registration website
« Reply #273 on: 30 January, 2019, 11:21:35 pm »
PBP wasn't always in August, the date has wandered a bit. It settled on late August when the event grew big enough to require the infrastructure of a large school for each control is a minimum.

PBP Audax tends to have multiple start dates, often months apart. Their peloton size is limited by the need to simultaneously feed and/or accommodate the entire field at each control.

Whatever, it's an example of human pettiness.

Well, yes. Loudiac was historically the control swamped by the number of riders there at the same time. Expanding the support available at that control would not be a trivial effort.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: PBP Registration website
« Reply #274 on: 31 January, 2019, 07:11:11 am »


Here is a copy (I saved it away at the time) of the original PBP poster they produced but early 2018 they did say a minimum of a 400 BRM was recommended. Regardless as you have highlighted appears to be petty comments based on some mis placed sense of entitlement.  FB, Twitter etc. seems to encourage pack behaviour.



The main problem with that schedule is the overlap between the 200 qualifier period and the 200 pre-registration dates.

Tying yourself in to PBP is often a matter of telling people that you're going to do it. So aspirants may have been telling friends and family of their intentions, backed up by a 200 last year. Explaining why it's not going to happen is a bit complex.

It's a classic case of 'It's not the despair, it's the hope'. Especially as keeping the hope alive means planning to do a 200 in Feb/March without any certainty of getting a place. I can see why people get 'petty'.