Bigger Lorries

[quixoticgeek]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65533993

Government to allow longer lorries on UK roads.

I'm not sure this is a good thing. Sure it has the environmental benefits, but having had the displeasure of having to share roads with 34m long road trains in Finland, Lorries are just too fucking big already. Even the extra 2m is too much.

J

[Cudzoziemiec]

I can see them being a problem in towns and I can see them getting themselves into trouble on country lanes if they're used for farm access. On most roads, I'm not sure what effect the extra 2m will have in terms of safety – I find that in general, the bigger the lorry, the more careful the driver is.

But I do think the environmental impact will be bad. There will be the immediate impact from erosion of roadsides through wider turning circle and, some time later, from higher weights – because that's bound to happen. And there will be further inroads into freight on rail.

If all goes to plan, I shall be meeting a cycling HGV driver this weekend, so I'll ask his opinion.

[andyoxon]

The Department for Transport (DfT) said the vehicles would help businesses be more productive.

'We've stuffed up trade logistics through our disastrous Brexit move, so will do anything even if ill advised'...

[Basil]

Bigger reverse swing on the tail end.
More danger to vulnerable road users, including peds, who get close.

[Kim]

What's the limit in Europe?

*googles*  https://www.itf-oecd.org/sites/default/files/docs/dimensions_1.pdf

So this would be more British exceptionalism?  That said, I'm sure most lorries never leave the UK, so assuming someone is going to manufacture the bigger trailers they'd appeal to haulers of light but bulky loads, such as baked goods and parcels.

My initial thought is that they'll be Mostly Harmless as long as they don't stray too far from the motorway.  Which they inevitably will.

Let's address the efficiency concerns by not powering them with diesel, instead...

[Cudzoziemiec]

The scary ones in that list of dimensions are Sweden and Ukraine, with their 24m and 22m trailers. Or indeed rigids.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Those bigger lorries have been in use in the UK since 2011, about 3000 of them currently running around.

[Cudzoziemiec]

But restricted to specified routes, I think?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

"Operators will be legally required to ensure that route plans and risk assessments take the specifications of LSTs into account."

From https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/10/longer-lorries-to-be-allowed-on-britains-roads-despite-safety-warnings

[Cudzoziemiec]

That's just route planning, rather than DfT-specified routes.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

That's just route planning, rather than DfT-specified routes.

Correct. I am fairly relaxed about big trucks, given I come from the land of road trains.

[Jurek]

As an ex-HGV1 driver, I find the prospect of adding 2m to the length of a 44 tonne truck, this:
Terrifying.
Oz has big roads which facilitate this, this country doesn't.

[Mr Larrington]

What's the limit in Europe?

*googles*  https://www.itf-oecd.org/sites/default/files/docs/dimensions_1.pdf

So this would be more British exceptionalism?  That said, I'm sure most lorries never leave the UK, so assuming someone is going to manufacture the bigger trailers they'd appeal to haulers of light but bulky loads, such as baked goods and parcels.

Not sure what they mean by “Road Train” in that since AFAIK wagons with more than one trailer* are only permitted in Scandiwegia, Germany, The Netherlands, Spain & Portugal and for most, if not all, of those countries only on specific roads.  Aussies wouldn’t call anything with only two trailers a “road train” either.

A Several of years BRITISH haulier Denby tried to argue there was a loophole in the law that allowed B-Double (second 5th wheel on the rear of the front trailer) rigs on UK roads but Plod and VOSA disagreed and made them put it away.

* except showmen, who I believe have Speshul Roolz.

[neilrj]

Bigger reverse swing on the tail end.
More danger to vulnerable road users, including peds, who get close.

Not really, the axles are still near the rear and they have steering rear axles so track very well, in fact better as than standard box. Supposedly only for trunking use.

[SteveC]

* except showmen, who I believe have Speshul Roolz.

There is such a thing as a showman's licence. Two of my friends, who tow a cannon on occasions (there is a photo somewhere on this site, but I cannot remember where!) looked into it, but it was too expensive for them. They were considering towing the cannon and a caravan.

I assume there are other restrictions as well.

[Cudzoziemiec]

It looks to me as if "road train" in that table refers to rigid vehicle + trailer. I've forgotten what BRITISH hauliers call that.

[rogerzilla]

I want to know how many existing trucks are running with just the first 2m utilised for overflow loads 

[Paul H]

Not sure what they mean by “Road Train”

In the context of the above, it just means lorry and trailer. There's already plenty of 18.75m vehicles on the road every day, EU and UK.
In the Showmans context, the towing vehicle has to be classed as a locomotive and the permitted length is 22m.

[Paul H]

some time later, from higher weights – because that's bound to happen.

It could be said the extra length is keeping up with the weight increase from 38 to 44 ton which happened thirty years ago.

[Mr Larrington]

It looks to me as if "road train" in that table refers to rigid vehicle + trailer. I've forgotten what BRITISH hauliers call that.

Personally I call 'em “tandems” but they get referred to as “BDFs” in Euro Truck Simulator 2 because one particular modder decided to refer to them thus and it stuck.

Some countries also allow ones like this:

[neilrj]

It looks to me as if "road train" in that table refers to rigid vehicle + trailer. I've forgotten what BRITISH hauliers call that.

Wagon and drag?

[Cudzoziemiec]

It looks to me as if "road train" in that table refers to rigid vehicle + trailer. I've forgotten what BRITISH hauliers call that.

Wagon and drag?

Or dragon and wag, if an overloaded trailer unsettles the whole rig. 

[grams]

“Road train” in Sweden and Finland likely includes B-doubles, which are fairly common these days.

[Mr Larrington]

Might include some, or more, of the above – type B being a B-Double.

[RichForrest]

Been driving the 14m trailers for 4yrs at the last company. They have a steering rear axle and are no different to driving a 13m standard length trailer.
The company along with Morrisons and others have also been also using 15m trailers, although not at our depot due to the yard size. They also have rear steer and you can tell the difference by the rear axle spacing as the rear axle is separate from the other 2.

There was talk about road train type vehicles being trialled but have never seen these on the road.
These will work for depot trunking and will save diesel, space on the road and driver shortage.
They'd be no good on back roads.


One of the main issues nowadays is the volume of goods traffic moved around the road network.
Since we all started internet shopping the traffic has quadrupled and there is an insane amount of trucks on the road overnight.
There are a lot of rail freight depots popping up all over the country, even big supermarkets now have rail freight depots.
Goods still need to be moved to the final end point though.