Novice Audax Tyre Question

[LMT]

When I first started audax riding I went with M+ 32’s, the idea being that I did not want the hassle of dealing with a puncture, but then on the run up to PBP I changed out the M+’s for S1’s and have not looked back. Yes these tyres are more susceptible to punctures, but the added speed you get for the same effort, as well as comfort and the hum that you get from running a proper road tyre I’d rather go with this then the former. The S1’s have since burnt out so I know run Michelin Pro4 endurance.

The hum? The slicker, better rolling and roadier the tyre, the less the hum, surely? Compare to mtb knobblies which really do hum.

I think it might be due to the carcass of the tyre being more flexible, but there is a definite hum compared to the M+'s or D+'s. Watch a YouTube clip of pro riders in the tour riding past, this is the hum I'm talking about.

[HeltorChasca]

I think you got round the tasty Cheddar quicker than me on a lightish bike with 25c tyres .  (Which proves that the engine is more important than the tyres)

Unless you felt totally wiped out after the ride I would stick with what you have for now and see how it goes.

When I selected some new wheels recently my priorities were strength reliability and easy to get tyres on and off.Getting a puncture doesn't completely ruin your day but struggling for ages to get a tyre on a rim that's clearly bigger than it should be is very frustrating.

This is why you are considered to be a fine fellow. A fibber, but a fine fellow for sure. I believe you were the quickest. And now that you are getting your mits on new wheels, that is that. Gone. Banjo over the horizon while I snort myself round the course.

For many reasons, it makes sense to stick with what I have. And to be grateful!

[jiberjaber]

When you get 4 punctures in one ride and other people aren't puncturing, there is a high likelihood that something is stuck in your tyre and re-puncturing your tube. Either that, or your tyres are worn to being too thin.

That can happen with almost any tyre.

The solution can be to replace the tyre.

I was running some conti 4seasons on a bike, really liked them. Almost no punctures. Changed route and started getting punctures. 3 in 25 miles at one point; 3 separate punctures, all glass, each time found the shard.

They weren't up to keeping out that glass, not in their worn state.

It was a puncture fest that ride, between 2 of us we went through 4 tubes, I even had a visitation on my D+DD tyres!

ETA: we came in with 15mins to spare due to the faffing... I think g other localities might not suffer from flints as much, but East Anglia has a lot to answer for!

[postrestant]

Faster tyres (more flexible sidewalls) tend to be comfier tyres, at the same pressure and width? That's my experience, anyway.

Went from old Marathons to Conti GP4000s and was surprised by the significant gain of speed (1 mph on average, I think, though that figure seems too high) but even more surprised by the gain in comfort (about which I'm certain). Said to friends it was the best £50 I'd ever spent on the bike.

Now on Schwalbe Tubeless. Comfort and speed plus little chance of having to stop for a puncture. (Plenty of punctures over about 10,000k but none which the sealant / a sealant and plug couldn't deal with. And the tyres are run through the winter.)

Spend the money on the tyres with the best rolling resistance and a decent width. But don't spend to long thinking about it.

Rolling resistance page:
http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com

[Jakob W]

The widest Compass tyres that will fit the frame; because after spending £100+ on tyres you'll force yourself to be quicker, if only to justify the outlay...

[sojournermike]

The widest Compass tyres that will fit the frame; because after spending £100+ on tyres you'll force yourself to be quicker, if only to justify the outlay...

And they are lovely

[Samuel D]

I say there’s nothing wrong with thinking about tyres. The pneumatic tyre is a wonderful thing, and I’d rather contemplate the finer points of its operation than do many a thing.

Phartiphukborlz said the Schwalbe One is available in 26-inch form. I have been using these in 700C and like them a lot. Very comfy, fast, and really quite good puncture resistance. I have caught mine humming Vivaldi on a fine summer’s day.

However, I prefer something else for the winter because I do not trust their grip in cool, wet conditions.

Perhaps counterintuitively, faster tyres matter more the slower you go – as you might do while going far. That’s because the resistance to your motion is mostly aerodynamic drag and tyre rolling resistance, and as you go slower the drag drops faster than the rolling resistance.

For this reason, I am surprised that many audax riders are a bit casual with their tyre choice. On the other hand, I haven’t done an audax so may be missing something important.

[Andrew Br]

I don't know much about 26 inch tyres, but a good start is not to go for anything with "Marathon" in the title!  Of tyres that Google has shown me to currently have 26 inch versions at the major outlets, the Panaracer RibMo is okay for an extended commute tyre, then there's the Continental Gatorskin for a general road tyre or the Schwalbe One for a summer sporty tyre.

I can't agree with pharti here: the Marathon Supreme is a great tyre IME. It wears well, grips, rolls OK, is reasonably light for something so durable and, if it does puncture (and there haven't been many) it's easy to get on and off.
I'd steer clear of Gatorskins. I had some and the grip was so poor that I quickly removed them. I'm not anti-Conti though: I used GP 4 Seasons for a long time and they were terrific, the only small downside was that they were a bit difficult to remove and replace when they finally succumbed.

I've only used 700c versions of these tyres although I can't see the 26" being any different.

[bhoot]

+1 for Marathon Supremes... I have had them on my touring (and occasional audax) bike for a few years now. I have the folding variety - so pretty easy to get on and off. Not many punctures and about half the weight of a standard Marathon.
The tandem though is shod with M pluses, currently some natty specials with the London logo which were cheap from Spa Cycles. We (rightly or wrongly) decided that puntures on a tandem were not going to be fun... so far two in 17,000 miles. Would we be faster with something lighter?.... not convinced it would make much difference.

[D.A.L.E.]

I don't know much about 26 inch tyres, but a good start is not to go for anything with "Marathon" in the title!  Of tyres that Google has shown me to currently have 26 inch versions at the major outlets, the Panaracer RibMo is okay for an extended commute tyre, then there's the Continental Gatorskin for a general road tyre or the Schwalbe One for a summer sporty tyre.

I can't agree with pharti here: the Marathon Supreme is a great tyre IME. It wears well, grips, rolls OK, is reasonably light for something so durable and, if it does puncture (and there haven't been many) it's easy to get on and off.
I'd steer clear of Gatorskins. I had some and the grip was so poor that I quickly removed them. I'm not anti-Conti though: I used GP 4 Seasons for a long time and they were terrific, the only small downside was that they were a bit difficult to remove and replace when they finally succumbed.

I've only used 700c versions of these tyres although I can't see the 26" being any different.

IMO/E Marathons aren't bad tyres per se, but they're no better than tyres costing/weighing a lot less.

I had Gatorskins on a bike before and thought they were 'orrible. Got one on the back of my fixie at the minute and love it though, great for skids 

[zigzag]

riding the same audax on different tyres, my experience is that m+ tyres add 15-20min on a 200k ride. i don't think that's a massive penalty, only something to consider. they feel a bit dead, however the grip is ok on wet/mucky winter roads.
i had four punctures this year on light&fast tyres (one per 4000km on average), all in warm dry weather, so fixed them without any drama.

[Banjo]

Whats the biggest tyres used on audaxes above 200k?
Theres a lot of so called "adventure road" bikes coming on the market now.

The Cannondale Slate is running 40 mm tyres on 650 rims believe it or not. Should be ultra comfortable on less than perfect tarmac but what the speed trade off is I dont know.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Nowt wrong with being comfortable and having a tyre that'll give you a chance of a puncture free ride.

You have a chance of a puncture-free ride with any tyre.  With anything except a Dugast track tub, it's infinitessimally close to being 100%. 

Fit some lighter tyres Hector, you won't regret it 

These are really good words and worth reading.

I used to do a lot of miles commuting. I went through a lot of tyres.
After the first year, I decided that ease of changing tube/repair was a bit more important than ultimate puncture-proofness - I added up the time lost due to really-puncture-proof tyres and over hundreds of miles, it amounted to well over an hour. Time taken to fix punctures - 10-15 minutes.

So it is worth getting a couple of extra punctures in those hundreds of miles.

As for which tyres, on 26" wheels I found panaracer paselas to be really good in the fatter (1.5" and up) sizes to be really good. I tried the ribmos but they were not as nice to ride on. You'll get people saying that paselas have fragile sidewalls, but I never had a sidewall blow out or get ripped through.

10-15 mins to fix how many punctures? I reckon it takes me about 20 to fix one, from "Oh no, is it really?" through finding a suitable place, pondering, fixing, to getting back on the bike. OTOH I've only had one this year.

[Kim]

I reckon the time to fix punctures is likely to increase with the sturdiness of the tyre.  Not just because you don't get as much practice, but due to general correlation with things that slow down the puncture-repair process (luggage, hub gears, non-QR axles, awkward brakes, whatever).

[Cudzoziemiec]

I have Vittoria Rubinos, which are not IMO particularly sturdy tyres. That is, they have a great deal more puncture resistance than some others I've used but they also roll better and are lighter, more supple.

[The Bonk]

Whats the biggest tyres used on audaxes above 200k?
Theres a lot of so called "adventure road" bikes coming on the market now.

The Cannondale Slate is running 40 mm tyres on 650 rims believe it or not. Should be ultra comfortable on less than perfect tarmac but what the speed trade off is I dont know.

PBP on 650b x 42mm.

[mattc]

Whats the biggest tyres used on audaxes above 200k?
Theres a lot of so called "adventure road" bikes coming on the market now.

The Cannondale Slate is running 40 mm tyres on 650 rims believe it or not. Should be ultra comfortable on less than perfect tarmac but what the speed trade off is I dont know.

PBP on 650b x 42mm.

Worth looking at bikes used for fast times on TCR. I believe most podium contenders were on 700c with 28mm or narrower. I think.
They would be more performance-focused than riders just needing to finish PBP inside the time limit, as pain-free as possible. TCR is also about twice as long with some much worse roads.

(That doesn't prove they made the best choices, but it is more data! )

[Cudzoziemiec]

Neither PBP nor the pointy end of TCR seem terribly applicable to the OP and his tyres though.

[Karla]

They seem pretty applicable to me.  If people can get through the Transcon without M+ style tyres, it means you certainly don't need M+ for audax-style rides.

I used to have them on my commuter.  Like others, I switched away from them because I decided that I could afford to fix two punctures in 10 minutes each and be a few minutes late for work, but I couldn't afford to fix one puncture on a heavy-duty tyre, break my tyre levers, break my finger nails, take 15 minutes and turn up at work seriously late, hot, bothered and smeared with dirt and grease.

[sojournermike]

The answer is to go to tubeless tyres giving good speed, a nice ride and significant fairy protection

[Kim]

They seem pretty applicable to me.  If people can get through the Transcon without M+ style tyres, it means you certainly don't need M+ for audax-style rides.

Yeah, but the "Just because someone's completed PBP on it doesn't mean it's a good idea." rule also applies.

I'd suggest that for shorter events, it doesn't really matter what tyres you have, as long as they don't puncture so often that you run out of time.  On longer events efficiency becomes more important, and the heavy-duty commuter tyres are best avoided, for exactly the sort of reason that Phartiphukborlz describes.

The pointy end of TCR would seem to be a good place to see what tyres work well for serious long rides.  Those aren't necessarily the tyres needed by an audax novice at the just-got-a-100km-badge stage, but they probably aren't a terrible idea either, depending on how comfortable the novice is with repairing punctures.  On the assumption that tyres matter enough to be worth discussing^[1], that's as good a data point as any.

(Though, TBH, I'd say the OP is over-thinking it.  I've done plenty of 100-200km rides on a tourer with 40mm Marathons.  It's not a big deal.)


_{[1] I'd say they do, if only in a "my tyres are knackered, recommend me some new ones" context.}

[Cudzoziemiec]

My thinking was similar to Kim's but not quite the same. Sure, TCR shows what's possible, what can be made to work or indeed what works well without any effort. But people doing that, especially at the fast end, have different priorities from a novice audaxer and probably different skills too; they're intent on speed over comfort and while reliability is obviously very important to them, they're going to be the sort of people who are not put out by having to reknit a wheel at the top of a pass in the Croatian Alps, if they have to. And if they do get a puncture, they certainly won't be patching tubes. I've only met Heltor Chasca once and have no idea what he thinks about patching tubes or even changing them at the roadside or his general level of bike mechanical aptitude, but he didn't strike me as a speed-oriented rider; more a get round and enjoy the scenery then have a pint kind of guy, I think, roughly speaking.

Which doesn't mean faster tyres won't benefit him, just that they would do so for different reasons.

[HeltorChasca]

A fascinating thread. I appreciate the knowledge. My practical skills are pretty good road-side. 5 years commuting 22 miles a day in London, saw my puncture repair skills honed. I've always liked my livelier tyres and ease of on/off. I had a little trouble with my current 1.5s but nothing too serious. For fun I might just leave my 1.75s on for my next winter event and see how it goes.

As for speed, whatever do you mean Cudzoziemiec? Was it my laid back attitude that made you think I'm not competitive? I wasn't always like that. I've competed in 2 sailing World Champs don't you know?

No, seriously, you are right. It's a new 'type' of event for me. I'm definitely there to enjoy the people, the scenery, the route, the bike porn and if I get a chance to have a pint, then I'm happy.

(I remember when I used to shoot, the ammunition choice was a source of great fascination and I enjoyed researching and experimenting. I get a similar buzz from tyres. Although this time round I can't afford to have a stack of different, round, rubber things)

[Karla]

My thinking was similar to Kim's but not quite the same. Sure, TCR shows what's possible, what can be made to work or indeed what works well without any effort. But people doing that, especially at the fast end, have different priorities from a novice audaxer and probably different skills too; they're intent on speed over comfort and while reliability is obviously very important to them, they're going to be the sort of people who are not put out by having to reknit a wheel at the top of a pass in the Croatian Alps, if they have to. And if they do get a puncture, they certainly won't be patching tubes. I've only met Heltor Chasca once and have no idea what he thinks about patching tubes or even changing them at the roadside or his general level of bike mechanical aptitude, but he didn't strike me as a speed-oriented rider; more a get round and enjoy the scenery then have a pint kind of guy, I think, roughly speaking.

Which doesn't mean faster tyres won't benefit him, just that they would do so for different reasons.

You still seem to be working on the idea that lighter tyres puncture lots though.  They don't.  My touring holiday this year was basically the bottom half of TCR, backwards.  I rode ~2000 km on a lot of worse roads than you'll find on a British audax, e.g. these.  No punctures.  That was on a pair of Rubino Pro 25s. 

No matter how fast or slow you go, there is no ride that can't be made more comfortable and enjoyable by a pair of nice supple tyres.  When able-bodied riders fit battleship tyres for not-particularly-challenging rides, it usually seems to be due to paranoia: either a mistaken belief that lighter tyres will puncture, or a fear that fixing a puncture is nigh-on impossible.  The first is wrong, and the correct (able-bodied) response to the second, is to learn how to do the extremely basic task of fixing a flat. 

The latter will be made much easier by fitting sensible tyres that a normal person can take off the rim!

[Kim]

There's another legitimate reason to be paranoid about punctures:  When riding with a group, the whole group gets held up by every individual source of faff.  The cumulative effect can be problematic, particularly in bad weather.

That's more of a concern with a organised group ride like a FNRttC than a typical audax, where groups tend to be informal affairs of smaller numbers of riders who are more inclined to split up when it's reasonable to do so.