Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => PBP => Topic started by: S1966W on 03 February, 2019, 02:49:27 pm
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I have managed to register a spot on this year's PBP on the back of a 600 last year. I realise there'll be over 6000 riders on the road with me but I would imagine there could be the odd occasion where you might be 'out on your own'. Do you think it's really necessary to carry a phone or GPS with mapping/routing apps to facilitate navigation or is it OK to 'wing it'?? I realise there must be a few route placards temporarily erected for the duration of the ride but of those who have completed it previously, would you ride it 'blind'? I fancy doing it unencumbered from electronics, keeping my dynamo just for lighting. Maybe a couple of sheets from a road map in the back pocket?
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Every turn is marked with an arrow, reinforced by additional arrows after turns, with crosses on roads where people go wrong. Close to large towns the signs tend to be higher up on lamp posts and the like. At the end the signs tended to get stolen, so the route is marked with fluorescent paint on the tarmac. A map is a good idea.
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Merci beaucoup!! A map it shall be.......maybe..........a lot to do between now & then.
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I've had occasions in '07 and '15 where I found the GPS useful. In '07 on some deserted road in the dark, just me and Vorsprung riding together, not another soul in sight. I was very tired and struggling to think clearly so it was helpful to know I was on route.
In '15 I recall being on the way back, day 3, and in some small-ish town the signing wasn't very clear or maybe already some theft had occurred. Again not many riders around at that point - and it was nice to have a line to reassure me I was on route.
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If you’re taking a phone anyway (and I presume you are), an app and a copy of the route weighs nothing.
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If you’re taking a phone anyway (and I presume you are), an app and a copy of the route weighs nothing.
Would certainly be my approach. If you're already carrying a suitable device (eg. for communicating, taking photographs or logging your ride), there's no reason *not* to carry a map.
But fancying "doing it unencumbered by electronics" suggests the OP has not carrying a phone in mind. In which case a dead-tree copy of the route map at whatever density you can bear seems prudent.
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People who say you don't need a GPS for PBP becaus ethe route is signposted, whateve tend to be fast(er) riders used to riding in a bunch who naturally share the navigation effort.
Speaking as somebody who rode large chunks of PBP solo, I found a GPS 'invaluable', and if riding again I'd *also* take a map and a list of the major towns along the way between controls.
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...
But fancying "doing it unencumbered by electronics" suggests the OP has not carrying a phone in mind. In which case a dead-tree copy of the route map at whatever density you can bear seems prudent.
Indeedy. [I didn't know you'd ridden PBP Kim! ;) ]
I rode in 2007 - before most people had GPS - and did looooong sections on my own. Or with 1 other vvv tired rider (sometimes with no English!). With the routesheet in a pocket, but never looked at it. 2011 was very similar, but I occasionally rode with Manotea (who presumably had a GPS, I didn't notice ... )
Do bear in mind that the route is much less laney than most UK rides - think Welsh events, not Sussex!
[The routesheet was actually more of a list-of-town-names-and-road-numbers stylee, so probably wouldn't be great on its own, but actually Quite Good for getting back on route using road signs. If that makes sense ... ]
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But fancying "doing it unencumbered by electronics" suggests the OP has not carrying a phone in mind. In which case a dead-tree copy of the route map at whatever density you can bear seems prudent.
Indeedy. [I didn't know you'd ridden PBP Kim! ;) ]
I don't think having ridden PBP is a requirement for either reading the OP's question properly, or considering it prudent to carry a map of some kind when riding on unfamiliar territory. No matter how easy to follow a route might be, there are always reasons that a map might be useful, if only for emergencies, or to be able to estimate your progress because you've eschewed easier methods of doing so.
Others have commented on how much you're likely to *need* a map in order to follow the route. I wouldn't know.
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Don't worry - I'd happily take your navigation/tech advice, even on an event you'd never consider riding :thumbsup:
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Sadly lots of riders see it as OK to take arrow signs so some kind of plan B may be helpful.
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It is OK to collect PBP direction signs, provided they are outbound signs collected well after any rider could possibly be using them. I've collected signs at each of the last 5 PBPs; always according to that rule. Taking signs that somebody might need is a bastard act.
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It is OK to collect PBP direction signs, provided they are outbound signs collected well after any rider could possibly be using them. I've collected signs at each of the last 5 PBPs. always according to that rule. Taking signs that somebody might need is a bastard act.
So I can't blame you for getting lost towards the end in 99. Eventually I saw a line of red lights in the distance on my left, and managed to wend my way across to join them.
http://www.randonneurs.bc.ca/pbp/stories/99_Ian_Hennessey.html
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I think I had the same problem that year. Should have gone left near the top of a hill with trees both sides but we actually went straight/ veered slightly right-ish?
That incident was what made me so militant about only collecting signs that nobody else might need. Riders should always be aware that somebody will probably be behind them (84hr starters and unfortunate folk a little behind the cutoff) and they are the ones that can least afford to get lost.
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I seem to recall that we got our souvenirs from a stack of arrows that they left at the finish in 2003. Saved time going back to find one the next day before riding home.
BTW from comments on other threads I’m not sure we should be telling stories from days of old. We should be making way for new riders.
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Nice to think that the experienced riders are just blocking the way for the newbies. My intent is to keep riding PBP until either I can't finish it or I don't want to do PBP again. I haven't reached that point yet.
The percentage of repeat offenders at PBP is actually fairly small. http://www.randonneurs.bc.ca/pbp/recidivistes/main.html shows that finishing many (say >3) PBPs is comparatively rare. Most folk roll up for 1 or 2 PBPs before moving onto other things. Some others fall in love with the event.
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On topic, though. I had convinced myself that I had never been off-route during a PBP but Lurcio reliably informs me that we got thoroughly lost on an early edition. I have no recollection of it, but sleep deprivation formed a large part of my early rides.
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On topic, though. I had convinced myself that I had never been off-route during a PBP but Lurcio reliably informs me that we got thoroughly lost on an early edition. I have no recollection of it, but sleep deprivation formed a large part of my early rides.
I think it was 95 I led a large group of Italians off-route (followed a return arrow by mistake). I quickly realised my error, stopped and gesticulated. They all swept past into the distance; I turned around and retraced the 200m to the route.
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In '07 on some deserted road in the dark, just me and Vorsprung riding together, not another soul in sight. I was very tired and struggling to think clearly ...
ha, and just to add to your enjoyment I had to stop and have a kip on a haystack. In the drizzle
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I have no GPS and my phone stays in my bag, only used for ride logging. I've à crappy Nokia for texting those who may be concerned about my progress, so for navigation I'll be doing what has always worked in the past...
A) follow the routesheet. French ones are quite easy, once you get used to them
B) follow the signs.
C) follow the other folk
D) follow my nose
In the Event of A--D failing I have
E) retrace to Junction and start at A
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I have no GPS and my phone stays in my bag, only used for ride logging. I've à crappy Nokia for texting those who may be concerned about my progress, so for navigation I'll be doing what has always worked in the past...
A) follow the routesheet. French ones are quite easy, once you get used to them
B) follow the signs.
C) follow the other folk
D) follow my nose
In the Event of A--D failing I have
E) retrace to Junction and start at A
Ridden it once in 2011. Had a GPS and it saved me going off route twice, that I can remember. When it is dark, you are on your own, tired and there has been a long distance between controls you can ride a long way before you question where you are.
BB
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I have no GPS and my phone stays in my bag, only used for ride logging. I've à crappy Nokia for texting those who may be concerned about my progress, so for navigation I'll be doing what has always worked in the past...
A) follow the routesheet. French ones are quite easy, once you get used to them
B) follow the signs.
C) follow the other folk
D) follow my nose
In the Event of A--D failing I have
E) retrace to Junction and start at A
The one time I went off-route, [on the first of 4 PBPs] was in a large group of mostly French riders. Once we hit a straight road, those at the front realised they had missed an arrow, as there were no more red lights ahead. We followed the rider with Local Knowledge to get back on route; the three Americans in the group were heard discussing whether to follow, but turned back to retrace.
Buddying-up in the dark, even very loosely, is a good idea though - especially when in the later stages and tired.
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Here is a link to an my excel version of the 2019 route sheet taken from the brochure.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/v2s9hm24pooybxk/routesheets.xlsx?dl=0
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In 2007 I rode sans GPS but with the route sheet and maps. The arrows (over 6000 of them according to the ACP) were all reflective and showed up well with a head torch. Without it they were a bit hard to find at night.
In 2015 I did it with a GPS powered from the dynamo and permanently back-lit. Luxury.
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I'd never thought of connecting my gps to my dynamo fed E-werk to have always-on backlighting at night, only for charging or emergency power. What a good idea. Ample juice to run gps, head and taillights concurrently? (I guess now that we use LED lights with dynamos rated to power incandescent bulbs there might well be)
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In 2015, on the return leg I was mostly on my own and at some unearthly hour I came across a road junction in total darkness and met a bewildered American rider who was stopped there and he asked me which way we go. It appears somebody had stolen the signs and there was 3 options in which way we could go. As I had a Sat Nav, I just told him and he tagged on behind.
The funny bit, next thing we are decending rapidly down a steepish hill with the American rider in tow behind me, and he kept praising me to be with someone who knows where they are going. All of a sudden I hit a bump, my lights went out and I was plunged into darkness. Because of the speed, I dare not let go of the bars to try and get them going until I slowed enough. I just thought to myself, I might know where I'm going, but I wish to hell I could see where I was going and could not stop laughing to myself. Oddly enough, I never saw the American again after I got to the bottom of the hill. Maybe he thought a was a lunatic and turned my lights off on purpose and decided to stay clear of me.
If I had just a map as a backup, and as I may not have been following the map as I would have been relying on the signs it would have been in my pocket or bag, the issue would have been to find on the route exactly where I was.
So the morale is, if you use a map, you need to be following it the same way as you would have a Sat Nav to confirm things.
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I'd never thought of connecting my gps to my dynamo fed E-werk to have always-on backlighting at night, only for charging or emergency power. What a good idea. Ample juice to run head and taillights concurrently? (I guess now that we use LED lights with dynamos rated to power incandescent bulbs there might well be)
Depends on the device as to how much of a good idea this is.
a) If it has a built in LiPo battery, running it off the ewerk is going to keep that battery at 100%, which it's not going to like, ideally for most LiPo batteries they last longest if kept between 20% and 80% (I wish devices offered this as an option).
b) if you slow down and there isn't enough power coming into the ewerk, you can end up with it getting a few seconds/minutes of charge, then nothing, this doesn't do internal batteries any good
c) If you run with the usb connector plugged in, over time the vibration can cause the connector to fatigue and come separated from the PCB inside the device, then you can't charge at all.
You are better off, using the ewerk to charge a battery pack, and then use that to charge your GPS when you stop for controls. Most devices with built in LiPo batteries can get a good few hours worth of charge in the time it takes to eat lunch (about 30 mins).
Remember, your ewerk is going to produce about 2.5Wh of power for every hour of cycling. If you are going the power bank route, then you are going to have a full cycle efficiency of at best 80%, giving you realistically 2Wh. If you cycle for 15 hours per day, that's 30-45Wh of available power. But you only get that if you are not also running the Dynamo light.
A Garmin Edge 520 has a 600mAh 3.7V battery (P=IV P=0.6*3.7=2.2Wh). Now a 10000mAh ikea battery pack has a capacity of 37Wh. Which means if you started with it fully charged, you could charge your Garmin fully 16 times over (give or take).
I run a USB-Werk on my bike, for charging a battery pack, but since I upgraded to a 26800mAh (98Wh) pack[1], I've found that actually it's not really worth the faff if I am stay in a hotel every 3 nights or so. I did have to get a specific power bank, with dual inputs, as I found that the larger packs just didn't charge fully in the short ~6 hour sleep I get on a race. But this is then enough to charge my devices (phone 1.5x per day, wahoo 2x per day, inreach+ 0.5x per day), and still have power in reserve if I decide to have an extra night in the bivvi before a hotel visit. On the second day of having recharged the bank, I may plug it into the usb-werk, but I'm not sure it really does me much benefit. But this is all calculated based on 2 week ultra race. For a 90 hour Audax, the power bank would be enough to charge everything. Battery power density has gone up, battery price has come down, it actually makes dynamo power even for lighting a questionable proposition. 3W of power to run the light. 10h of darkness, that's 30Wh of power. My Anker is 590g. A Son 28 is 440g. The anker would power lights for 30 hours (give or take). A standard Shimano hub is about 140g. So for a 400g penalty, you can have battery power, which will save you about 5W in resistance. Tho I'm not sure how much that extra 400g would slow you on the climbing... Ultimately you pays your money and makes your choice. Just be aware the variables are changing as the technology evolves[2].
J
[1] Anker Powercore+ 26800 - (https://amzn.to/2G64YZu)
[2] The next generation of battery technology will really skew this in favour of battery over dynamo, if even half the 10x projected density improvements come about, it's just not going to be worth running a dynamo if you can get access to charge your battery every few days...
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[1] Anker Powercore+ 26800 - (https://amzn.to/2G64YZu)
You cannot seriously be advocating carting a 26Ah battery pack round PBP
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[1] Anker Powercore+ 26800 - (https://amzn.to/2G64YZu)
You cannot seriously be advocating carting a 26Ah battery pack round PBP
At <600g, it's not a major weight. But actually if you read what I wrote, you'll see that I suggested even a 10000mAh pack would be more than enough to keep a GPS going for the whole of a PBP.
I'm not riding PBP, but if I was, I would probably carry my 26800mAh pack with me, mostly as I already have it. I intend to take it on the TCR. A friend in a Velomobile will be carry about 1.5kg of batteries for his lights on PBP.
J
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You can certainly navigate using the arrows only. The first night (if in 90hr) there will be enough lights ahead and behind on the road that getting lost would be impressive. The second night it is possible to find yourself in a group with no lights ahead or behind. In 2015 on said second night I was in a group of Japanese and we ended up going slightly over 10km off route, then needing to retrace our route; so 20km off route. We stopped (and retraced) when we came to a pitch black village and not a sound or person to be heard. So expect outbound arrows to be missing in the odd place. On the third night you could navigate via the bodies at the side of or on the road. If you are relaxed about the odd bit of going off route and retracing etc. then you will be fine.
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[1] Anker Powercore+ 26800 - (https://amzn.to/2G64YZu)
You cannot seriously be advocating carting a 26Ah battery pack round PBP
At <600g, it's not a major weight. But actually if you read what I wrote, you'll see that I suggested even a 10000mAh pack would be more than enough to keep a GPS going for the whole of a PBP.
4x AA lithium primaries will power a GPS for the whole of PBP. Weight 60g, reducing to 30g when you dispose of the first pair.
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[lots of good stuff]
Good point about LiPo not liking being kept at 100%. To avoid outages I could use my B&M cache battery but that adds weight, so I'll probably forget the idea and go back to my original plan of using my trusty etrex with lithium AAs. That'll get me round, with a fresh pair of cells halfway if necessary. It's only 4 days I should remember, not 4 weeks. I'll just do my usual periodic tap of the knob to illuminate the screen at night and check I'm still en route.
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[1] Anker Powercore+ 26800 - (https://amzn.to/2G64YZu)
You cannot seriously be advocating carting a 26Ah battery pack round PBP
At <600g, it's not a major weight. But actually if you read what I wrote, you'll see that I suggested even a 10000mAh pack would be more than enough to keep a GPS going for the whole of a PBP.
4x AA lithium primaries will power a GPS for the whole of PBP. Weight 60g, reducing to 30g when you dispose of the first pair.
Indeed one pair of AA lithiums can get you through 3/4 of the way around or even back to the finish if you are a faster rider. Four lithium AAs plenty.
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I'd never thought of connecting my gps to my dynamo fed E-werk to have always-on backlighting at night, only for charging or emergency power. What a good idea. Ample juice to run head and taillights concurrently? (I guess now that we use LED lights with dynamos rated to power incandescent bulbs there might well be)
Depends on the device as to how much of a good idea this is.
a) If it has a built in LiPo battery, running it off the ewerk is going to keep that battery at 100%, which it's not going to like, ideally for most LiPo batteries they last longest if kept between 20% and 80% (I wish devices offered this as an option).
b) if you slow down and there isn't enough power coming into the ewerk, you can end up with it getting a few seconds/minutes of charge, then nothing, this doesn't do internal batteries any good
I wouldn't worry about this sort of thing for a one-off big event that costs more than the GPS does, thobut.
c) If you run with the usb connector plugged in, over time the vibration can cause the connector to fatigue and come separated from the PCB inside the device, then you can't charge at all.
This on the other hand is tempting a failure mode that could ruin your day on the event itself. See also: Water ingress.
On the gripping hand, Garmin Edge series remain inexplicably popular, so plenty of people do manage to use USB connections on the bike.
Alternatively, use an eTrex and budget for another set of spare AAs and you can have all the backlight you want.
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4x AA lithium primaries will power a GPS for the whole of PBP. Weight 60g, reducing to 30g when you dispose of the first pair.
How do I install those on my Wahoo Elemnt Bolt?
I wouldn't worry about this sort of thing for a one-off big event that costs more than the GPS does, thobut.
Yes, except you're gonna probably want to do all your SR series with much the same kit so that you are familiar with it. I'm not sure I'd consider something like a Wahoo Elemnt to be a single use item like this. I'd like to make sure that my use doesn't adversely effect it's life.
This on the other hand is tempting a failure mode that could ruin your day on the event itself. See also: Water ingress.
On my stem I have a second Wahoo mount, this allows me to run with the power cable plugged in. This is an emergency use only solution, for use only when it's dry, and no risk of pavé, for when there's an hour left on the Audax, but the battery is at 10% and you just want to make sure to get there in one piece. I think I've used it 2-3 times since I got the Wahoo.
On the gripping hand, Garmin Edge series remain inexplicably popular, so plenty of people do manage to use USB connections on the bike.
Yes and no. For most riders, they do what I do, they take the device into the cafe, charge it while they eat/drink, then fit it back on the bike and ride off. I'd wager the majority of Garmin Edge series owners do not do rides long enough to need to recharge the device, you can tell this from the number of bugs that arise when the device is used by ultraracers. The number of nav screw ups have been down to shitty garmin's is mounting up.
Alternatively, use an eTrex and budget for another set of spare AAs and you can have all the backlight you want.
I have an etrex 10, it's not ideal, lacking a map etc... I've considered getting a 20, as a backup nav device, esp as I've now been educated that if I want to put a route into an etrex, I have to upload it as a track... tho I'm unsure how an etrex 20 will handle a track with a few 10's of thousands of points, but we did this debate elsewhere... Can you program tracks into an etrex 10 from a mobile phone? Does it support ANT+ sensors?
J
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I have an etrex 10, it's not ideal, lacking a map etc... I've considered getting a 20, as a backup nav device, esp as I've now been educated that if I want to put a route into an etrex, I have to upload it as a track... tho I'm unsure how an etrex 20 will handle a track with a few 10's of thousands of points, but we did this debate elsewhere... Can you program tracks into an etrex 10 from a mobile phone? Does it support ANT+ sensors?
J
My 20 is fine. I don't normally ask it to navigate, because that becomes a bit approximate and is a faff. So all I do is follow the [choice of colour] line.
I'd load PBP as two tracks, out & back. Neither would need more than 3000 points, you could get away with somewhat less.
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I have an etrex 10, it's not ideal, lacking a map etc... I've considered getting a 20, as a backup nav device, esp as I've now been educated that if I want to put a route into an etrex, I have to upload it as a track... tho I'm unsure how an etrex 20 will handle a track with a few 10's of thousands of points, but we did this debate elsewhere... Can you program tracks into an etrex 10 from a mobile phone? Does it support ANT+ sensors?
- An etrex will take a track of 10,000 points and using Basecamp or Phil W's tool you can reduce the number of points without losing navigational detail/accuracy (note - a track won't give you turn by turn, it's just a line on the map but it's very effective), what this will give you in terms of length I'm unsure but I'd guess between 400-600 km. What I tend to do is to split the track into sections and the key thing here is that switching tracks will not disrupt or break your recorded track log so it will keep on recording overall distance/climb etc
- I'm not aware of the ability to connect a mobile phone to an extrex, it's lacking in bluetooth
- Yes, it supports Ant+ (at least I know the 30 does, not sure about the 20)
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4x AA lithium primaries will power a GPS for the whole of PBP. Weight 60g, reducing to 30g when you dispose of the first pair.
How do I install those on my Wahoo Elemnt Bolt?
Something like this: https://vetco.net/products/4-x-aa-battery-holder-usb-power-supply
I have a 2xAA battery version, I've used it plenty of times to keep my GPS going for longer than 12h.
(You need to have a GPS that will run off external power rather than going into external drive mode, a power only USB cable sometimes helps but some devices are designed to turn off when charging.)
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- An etrex will take a track of 10,000 points and using Basecamp or Phil W's tool you can reduce the number of points without losing navigational detail/accuracy (note - a track won't give you turn by turn, it's just a line on the map but it's very effective), what this will give you in terms of length I'm unsure but I'd guess between 400-600 km. What I tend to do is to split the track into sections and the key thing here is that switching tracks will not disrupt or break your recorded track log so it will keep on recording overall distance/climb etc
- I'm not aware of the ability to connect a mobile phone to an extrex, it's lacking in bluetooth
- Yes, it supports Ant+ (at least I know the 30 does, not sure about the 20)
3000 trackpoints is more than enough for 600. The 20 doesn't have Ant+.
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Something like this: https://vetco.net/products/4-x-aa-battery-holder-usb-power-supply
I have a 2xAA battery version, I've used it plenty of times to keep my GPS going for longer than 12h.
(You need to have a GPS that will run off external power rather than going into external drive mode, a power only USB cable sometimes helps but some devices are designed to turn off when charging.)
You'd have to be careful what power regulation is in one of those - worst case scenario it feeds 6V directly to the USB port (I have one that does). Most likely it has a linear regulator (I also have one of these) which burns through the extra volt as heat and then does nothing as the battery voltage drops below 5V, which they will under load, so you're device may stop charging before the batteries are empty.
Ironically a 2xAA one would need to have a boost convertor to output 5V, so is likely to be more efficient and produce 5V from full to empty.
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I had my trusty Etrex 20 with me back in 2015. Certainly helped as a back up.
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I'm not aware of the ability to connect a mobile phone to an extrex, it's lacking in bluetooth
You can mount it as a storage device on Android with a suitable OTG cable and access the GPX files. I occasionally plot routes in Viewranger on my tablet and transfer them to my eTrex while touring. And back up the recorded tracks.
Or remove the SD card and put it in your phone, which is even more fiddly.
iThing users are out of luck. That's what you get for choosing an OS that pretends not to have a filesystem.
Yes, it supports Ant+ (at least I know the 30 does, not sure about the 20)
But the device support is rubbish: AIUI it'll understand heartrate, temperature and the cadence data from a combined speed/cadence unit (but not the speed, or cadence from stand-alone cadence sensor), and that's it. It can also use Ant+ to exchange data with other eTrexen, allegedly.
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I'm not aware of the ability to connect a mobile phone to an extrex, it's lacking in bluetooth
You can mount it as a storage device on Android with a suitable OTG cable and access the GPX files. I occasionally plot routes in Viewranger on my tablet and transfer them to my eTrex while touring. And back up the recorded tracks.
Or remove the SD card and put it in your phone, which is even more fiddly.
Interesting, didn't realise that
Yes, it supports Ant+ (at least I know the 30 does, not sure about the 20)
But the device support is rubbish: AIUI it'll understand heartrate, temperature and the cadence data from a combined speed/cadence unit (but not the speed, or cadence from stand-alone cadence sensor), and that's it. It can also use Ant+ to exchange data with other eTrexen, allegedly.
Okay, I've never used it but am contemplating an HRM strap. I can vouch for the data exchange with other eTrexers ... at the previous PBP a friend's files disappeared* from view on his unit and at the pre-ride meal I was able to send him the out and back tracks which all worked well. Quite a niche function though ;)
*some kind of weird bug with the files, he wasn't the only one to experience, I think I avoided the issue by running through Basecamp and renaming
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I've ridden it 3 times simply following the arrows and never had any problem - and that's towards the back of the field. I did carry a map in the saddlebag, though, just in case.
I think it also helps to have studied the route in detail beforehand so that you have a mental image of where you are at any given time. There are some quirks, such as the fact that on the return leg, before the Villaines control, you pass a turning on the left very clearly signposted to the town, but the route takes you straight on. That's because the official route takes a longer and lumpier route in order to enter the town from the south-west (I think) whereas the other road would bring you in from the north, meaning that you'd have to navigate your own way to the control itself.
If I were to ride it again, I'd consider a GPX for night riding between Carhaix and Loudeac, as some of the turnings are small and might be missed if I wasn't wide awake, but I don't think you need it in the day time or on the relatively straightforward route between the start and Loudeac.
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Bit of advice if you take a kip in a field - before you doze off, make sure you leave your bike pointing in the direction you're supposed to be travelling in.
Bizzare and implausible with all the rider numbers involved, but with the addition of chronic fatigue coming into play [if you're a full valuer] it is possible to find your self riding alone at times wondering if you're still going in the right direction!
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One of the reasons I hate "track up" on a GPS. With north up it's obvious if I'm heading west when I should be heading east :)
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One of the reasons I hate "track up" on a GPS. With north up it's obvious if I'm heading west when I should be heading east :)
I just look at the little compass roundel thing that my gps puts on the screen... That plus the position of the sun... or the stars at night... I've done whole bike rides using the stars for navigation in the past... crude, but it works...
J
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You can also navigate by examining the trees and plants.
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One of the reasons I hate "track up" on a GPS. With north up it's obvious if I'm heading west when I should be heading east :)
I just look at the little compass roundel thing that my gps puts on the screen... That plus the position of the sun... or the stars at night... I've done whole bike rides using the stars for navigation in the past... crude, but it works...
J
I understand that on rare occasions it is cloudy in Brittany
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You can also navigate by examining the trees and plants.
as i recall the north side of the tree will be where the lichen grows, as it is more shady. (south side in australia/new zealand etc)
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You can also navigate by examining the trees and plants.
as i recall the north side of the tree will be where the lichen grows, as it is more shady. (south side in australia/new zealand etc)
There is also the growth of the branches and leaves, as well as the orientation of the leaves , and if a prevailing wind blows that gives further clues.
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...Or just follow the signs, as the entire route is waymarked.
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You can also navigate by examining the trees and plants.
Not 100% reliable, and can be hard to do while moving at 20kph.
Natural Navigation by Tristan Gooley is an interesting read on the topic - http://amzn.to/2hczpNA
Yes I know it's kinda geeky, and it's not for everyone, but keeping the plough to your right when heading West, and keeping it on your left on the return leg is a good enough way if all you want to do is know you're heading in the right sort of direction.
Anyway, you can all resume your sarcastic suggestions now.
J
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Presumably on PBP, the direction you're heading is the side of the tree with the least urine on it...
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...Or just follow the signs, as the entire route is waymarked.
The single most likely point to go wrong was at Fresnay-sur-Sarthe, where the route went through more than 90 degrees at the Bar Tabac Au Bon Coin. It was all too easy to end up in Sille-Le-Guillame. Remember that you had to go to La Hutte, and you were alright.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@48.2812486,0.0226299,3a,75y,270.13h,73.24t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sExyndtD-xd1EfZ7JRt8FBA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en&authuser=0
That dogleg bend has now moved to Segrie.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@48.2002315,0.0266906,3a,54.7y,33.75h,92.41t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sOtz2Ts-SVBCW2BL2XP2isw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DOtz2Ts-SVBCW2BL2XP2isw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D76.94568%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en&authuser=0
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...Or just follow the signs, as the entire route is waymarked.
The single most likely point to go wrong was at Fresnay-sur-Sarthe, where the route went through more than 90 degrees at the Bar Tabac Au Bon Coin. It was all too easy to end up in Sille-Le-Guillame. Remembering that you hadto go to La Hutte, and you were alright.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@48.2812486,0.0226299,3a,75y,270.13h,73.24t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sExyndtD-xd1EfZ7JRt8FBA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en&authuser=0
On our 2014 Strasbourg-Brest Diagonale we ate at that restaurant with the railings on the right. Excellent steak and big hors-d'oeuvre buffet.
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...Or just follow the signs, as the entire route is waymarked.
Where are the romance and discussion opportunities in that, Deano?
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...Or just follow the signs, as the entire route is waymarked.
Where are the romance and discussion opportunities in that, Deano?
Indeed I was wondering whether to use my navigation pebble again.
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Talking about wilderness navigation techniques (!) is just ludicrous in the context of a ride where every junction is marked, and you'll be following thousands of other cyclists anyway.
In 2011, I went off route once following other riders, and a local driver soon shooed us back onto the route. At another point, me and a German cyclist weren't sure whether we were on the route, and I suggested that we stop, and wait. Within 30 seconds a bunch of lights came down the hill behind us - even at night, you'll rarely be alone on the road.
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. . . even at night, you'll rarely be alone on the road.
but the heartache!
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Talking about wilderness navigation techniques (!) is just ludicrous in the context of a ride where every junction is marked, and you'll be following thousands of other cyclists anyway.
In 2011, I went off route once following other riders, and a local driver soon shooed us back onto the route. At another point, me and a German cyclist weren't sure whether we were on the route, and I suggested that we stop, and wait. Within 30 seconds a bunch of lights came down the hill behind us - even at night, you'll rarely be alone on the road.
I believe the discussion related to waking from a roadside nap and heading the wrong way on the the route, not going completely off piste.
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On last year's German Ride I managed a roadside nap about a mile off-route. That could have turned into disaster :facepalm: