I have joined a pilates class

[teethgrinder]

I've never tried Tia Chi. From what very little I know about martial arts, some martial arts seem to be a lot about learning a culture while others are entirely about the exercise etc.

From what you say, I think that pilates will be much better. Any pilates instructor worth going to will be able to answer any questions.

[MikeFromLFE]

I go to Tai Chi once a week which is under the banner of Lishi, which is another Taoist setup. They seem to be international with members in Germany, Netherlands and Scandinavia. The main base appears to be in Leeds. Their internet presence is there in the Uk, but no depth or substance as regards the hierarchy.
Although I've been going for about a year, I'm trying to maintain a healthy separation between the excessive aspects and the 'other' aspects (vegetarianism is the only example I can put my finger on, but I strongly sense there's more in there somewhere). Although I enjoy the classes, and it's a great group of people, I sense a cult-like infrastructure lurking in the shadows.
The annual fee is £50 and the classes cost £6 for 2 hours.
They run weekend and summer schools which I have no intention of attending.

[Eccentrica Gallumbits]

I did tai chi classes for a while. I have no idea what type it was, but Wu rings a bell. I didn't get on with it particularly well. I always came out feeling hunched up and compressed, whereas yoga leaves me feeling stretched and longer. I have a friend who is a tai chi teacher and she gets very irate at a lot of classes - she says it's a martial art and it should be taught as a martial art, not just as a series of moves with breathing, or as a spiritual exercise.

[Wowbagger]

That was good. There were about 20 people in the class. The average age was a fair bit lower than the tai chi class, and the average waist measurement was a hell of a lot lower. Is that an indication of the respective merits of each discipline, I wonder?

I worked up quite a sweat and I wouldn't be at all surprised if something or other didn't ache in the morning. There wasn't anything I didn't feel that I couldn't have a go at, but that's not to say that I executed everything perfectly - far from it. I've signed up for 6 weeks.

I've no idea what any of the exercises were called, but our instructor spoke clearly and there wasn't anything much I missed. She spent probably 90% of the time at the front, demonstrating the exercises, but wandered round two or three times in the hour to give a bit of individual help when it was needed. An hour was plenty of time.

I didn't hear anyone fart.

[Ashaman42]

I didn't hear anyone fart.

So I assume it was smelly instead then? Silent but...

[zigzag]

both yoga and pilates are excellent for strengthening core, pelvic and back muscles, and improve flexibility. only after yoga classes i realised why i was struggling to get myself comfortable on the saddle after few hours of riding and it was a revelation. heavy leather saddles are usually very good for cyclists with poor core fitness and flexibility (myself included, to some extent), but with strong core and back sporty saddles become just as comfy being 1/3 of weight; there will be less weight on your wrists; and sitting on a bike will just feel right. your fitness will be the best "bike upgrade" you can get!

[Sergeant Pluck]

both yoga and pilates are excellent for strengthening core, pelvic and back muscles, and improve flexibility. only after yoga classes i realised why i was struggling to get myself comfortable on the saddle after few hours of riding and it was a revelation. heavy leather saddles are usually very good for cyclists with poor core fitness and flexibility (myself included, to some extent), but with strong core and back sporty saddles become just as comfy being 1/3 of weight; there will be less weight on your wrists; and sitting on a bike will just feel right. your fitness will be the best "bike upgrade" you can get!

Hi Z. Interested in your post, and I also read a recent post of yours along the lines of "until I learned to sit on a bike properly". Can you expand on this? What were you doing wrong before and what are you doing now?

I've been advised to do Pilates too, so I'm going to be looking for classes in a couple of weeks after I move flat.

[henshaw11]

Pleased to hear it went well

5 quid a session's pretty good (assuming a decent instructor, of course !) - where I go (my localish gym - N surrey/Greater London) it works out about 6 a session, for a block of 5-7 sessions, as a member - but double that as a non-member. I don't think I'd get *too* worried about class size unless it's all beginners - a decent instructor will probably just keep a bit more of an eye on the beginners and a bit less on the more experienced bods... tho' ours seems to have eyes in the back of her head 

YMMV, but half-dozen or so sessions is probably about right to get to grips with the breathing and body-awareness elements - it's not unusual to hear beginners not finding it doing anything, but it's usually 'cos they haven't worked out what they're doing. There's different versions of each exercise according to ability/injury, so there's always a challenge of some sort - and even some of the basic exercises can be as good as -or better than-  the supposedly more tricky ones if you focus correctly.

The class I go to tends to be the less circumferentially (?)-challenged...mebbe just we're a bit more aware of putting on weight than anything, not everyone is a member of the gym it's held in. You're certainly not going to lose much weight doing Pilates but it's a good complement to other activities - and the improved body awareness helps with balance and posture. Certainly kept me ticking over when I had 3 or 4  years of not doing much regular cycling or other gym work.

In theory our class is about 16 or so but at any point about 10-12 turn up - there's usually 2 or 3 of us blokes nowadays - we're mostly (nowadays) in the 35-55 range but most of us have been going for 5+ yrs (about 10 in my case) - it's an improvers/advanced class - not so much ability, so much as we all know what we're doing, we occasionally get relative beginners and they cope fine.

At least a few have come to it from having back injuries - as did our instructor, who was badly injured in a car crash when she was younger - IIRC expectations were she'd never walk properly again. Dunno how much of a recovery she'd have made otherwise - she was an aerobics instructor already - but you certainly wouldn't know it.

>I doubt I'll ever be best friends with my pelvic floor,
I must admit without the anatomy (or at least, active anatomy) to help identify it, it's a bit tricky. Our instructor uses the 'lifting a towel' analogy..which is ok if you currently have an..erm...towel rail to hand. And I don't think assisting in that department is part of the session fee...

[teethgrinder]

I don't think I'd get *too* worried about class size unless it's all beginners - a decent instructor will probably just keep a bit more of an eye on the beginners and a bit less on the more experienced bods...

The place I go is a dedicated pilates studio with all the pilates equipment and if you wanted to become a pilates instructor, this is where you'd go to learn how to become and instructor and where you'd take the exams to qualify. They have a policy of no more than 13 per class because the instructor simply cannot watch everyone close enough if there are any more in a class. One of my previous instructors refused to take a class in a chain gym because there were too many and she couldn't do her job properly. I do notice that the instructor has trouble keeping an eye on everyone when there are more than half a dozen in one class. Even those who have been doing it for years need correcting and that includes instructors. Pilates is a very precise set of exercises.
That is what I've been told by several pilates instructors.

Pilates is a set of (32 I think) exercises, designed by a German geezer called Joseph Pilates just before WW2 (he fled the country before the war because he didn't want to get involved with it)
Those complete exercises are very hard to do (even the instructors can't do all of them), so they are modified so that you can build up to the full exercises. A bit like not being able to do press ups on the floor, so you do them leaning against a wall and build up from there until you can do them on the floor.

I don't think it is much good for fat burning, but it all helps.
You could very well be benefitting from doing pilates in a big class, just because you're doing some exercise and may even be getting it right.
I see it more as learning how to use my body efficiently than purely as exercise, so I'm much more interested in getting the exercises as close to form as I can get them. If I just wanted the exercise, I'd joing a gym and do weights. I can do that anyway, but now that I do pilates, I can apply that to how I move, which will make workouts more beneficial and be much less prone to injury.

I certainly do think that my cycling has benefitted from it, which is why I still do it.

[henshaw11]

Even those who have been doing it for years need correcting and that includes instructors. Pilates is a very precise set of exercises.

I certainly wouldn't disagree with that

Smaller classes are indeed preferable, but as I wrote - depends on the class makeup/ability and the instructor. What I was trying to get at was Wowbagger shouldn't get too put off by people saying anything over 'n' is automatically bad - there's a big difference between a dozen beginners and a dozen with some years of experience - it sounds like our instructor only gets through about half or 2/3 of what she covers with us, in the class before ours. I'd be more concerned if the instructor's simply issuing instructions and not checking people for engagement/alignment, etc.

If you haven't seen them, the original book(s) - published as "Return to Life Through Contrology and Your Health" - are an interesting read but not much use as an instructional aid - and Joseph Pilates had some..errr..curious ideas (IIRC not exactly that w*nking makes you go blind, but close !).
For reference, some videos of the lot (I *think* pretty close to the originals - turns out there's 34) are here http://www.perfectbalancepilates.com/exercises.htm
 - usual caveat of 'don't try this at home folks' 'cos there's a good likelihood of doing yerself a mischief with some, done incorrectly.

With assorted traceability back to Pilates himself I *think* the main 'schools' boil down to Winsor, Stott, Body Control, Michael King (and probably traditional Pilates).Our instructor's mentioned Michael King (+Malcom Muirhead) quite a bit in the past so I guess that was her route - but I guess with some degree of commonality and shifting best practice it's probably a bit incestuous.

I think it used to be easy to just do a matwork instructors course and call yourself an instructor (cue instructor spitting feathers), but (if I've got this correct) most courses are now CYQ (Central YMCA)approved/REPs (Register of Exercise Professionals) accredited. I've looked at instructor qualifications in the past - more out of interest re the underlying physiology rather than the tuition element, but I find it a little confusing  - not to mention a little curious - that say a Stott level 3 CYQ certificate requires 30 hours of matwork experience and 3 yrs of fitness teaching, whilst another level 3 CYQ diploma only (?) requires 5 weeks of matwork class attendance. (A bunch listed here: http://reps.training.exerciseregister.org/search?subject=191).
Answers on a postcard...

Oh, latest little fad (?) coming to a gym nr you - barre pilates (or isobarre or summat like that) - adds a bit more dance-related stuff wrt wall bars. Our first session yesterday after the summer break had a few bits. But back on the qualification front, our instructor - an early adoptor I think - was grumbling about another teaching it without accreditation (IIRC). I guess that'll all shake out in due course..

[Wowbagger]

My view is that, as someone completely new to these exercises, anything is better than nothing. When you are completely new to something, progress tends to be rapid.

Having said that, some of the stuff we were doing was similar to some of the exercises we did in tai chi. Tai chi is pretty good for improving balance, but it's pretty easy just to go through the motions without putting the effort in. My first impressions were that most of the Pilates exercises we did require more effort just to make an initial stab at the movement. All of tai chi is done whilst on your feet.

[henshaw11]

For anyone looking for classes, adult education centres and university sports centres are worth a look - may well bring the price down to something sensible compared to purpose-built studios - I've found one locally (here in surrey) for about 6 quid a time, tho' it looks like you need your own mat*, and at Manchester Uni at various sites for a less than 6 as a nom-member - I assume that means non-student too. (OTOH, Surrey Uni ain't so cheap...)

*one of the guys in our class does yoga too, and uses his own yoga mat for pilates, but that's a bit on the thin side compared to normal gym mats,  which are more like 20mm thick and that bit more comfy.

[Wowbagger]

I borrowed Mrs. Wow's second yoga mat. We are in a church hall which also has a couple of tai chi sessions each week.

[teethgrinder]

I pay £7.50 a go. I reckon that's very good VFM considering that

there are usualy fewer than 8 per class
it's a specific pilates studio
the knowledge and ability of the instructors who I trust to be giving very good instruction
I only need to bring a towel (I'm the only one who does, cos I'm a sweaty monster) and the studio is fully equiped.

My view is that, as someone completely new to these exercises, anything is better than nothing. When you are completely new to something, progress tends to be rapid.

That's very true, you do progress much faster at the beginning in most things. It's where you are progressing to that you sometimes need to be careful of.
Much better and so much easier to get it right from the off IMO. I'd use the analogy that you may be learning to ride a bike with stabilisers and may need to re-learn how to ride a bike again when you take them off.
When you know for sure that you are doing it right, you will be able to do them very well without any guidance and going for a good cycle tour. Or you could end up going cycling with your stabilisers on, so to speak.
You could, of course, be getting just as good, or even better pilates lessons than I am. It's just that the people who I trust about teaching pilates all say that there should never be more than 13 in a class at a time with one instructor and from my experience, it rings true, so it rings alarm bells with me.

[Eccentrica Gallumbits]

I used to do yoga at a yoga centre, taught by proper yoga teachers. For various reasons I don't go any more, but sometimes I do do a yoga class at the gym. I'm not clear whether the instructor is a proper yoga teacher or if she's a fitness instructor teaching yoga moves - the latter feels more likely to me, to be honest. I was chatting to one of the blokes in the class one day, and saying I used to do proper yoga classes and that what the gym offers is more like yoga as a fitness class than proper yoga. He wasn't really understanding what I meant - it's like the difference between doing a spin class and riding a bike. The movements might be more or less the same, but the whole concept is different.

[Wowbagger]

I'm off to the second instalment in a few minutes. I will report back.

[Wowbagger]

Well, it's much harder work than tai chi.

For some of the exercises I can see how much less supple I am than pretty well everyone else in the class. I'm thinking I might get a pilates book and do a bit of practice at home.

Generally I'm pretty pleased that I seem to be able to have a decent stab at pretty well all the exercises and I definitely feel better at the end of the class, in a stretched kind of way.

[mr magnolia]

I'm taking my aging bones along to beginners class tomorrow while magnoliette1 water polos. I hope to be gently stretched and still alive after.

[mrcharly-YHT]

both yoga and pilates are excellent for strengthening core, pelvic and back muscles, and improve flexibility. only after yoga classes i realised why i was struggling to get myself comfortable on the saddle after few hours of riding and it was a revelation. heavy leather saddles are usually very good for cyclists with poor core fitness and flexibility (myself included, to some extent), but with strong core and back sporty saddles become just as comfy being 1/3 of weight; there will be less weight on your wrists; and sitting on a bike will just feel right. your fitness will be the best "bike upgrade" you can get!

Hi Z. Interested in your post, and I also read a recent post of yours along the lines of "until I learned to sit on a bike properly". Can you expand on this? What were you doing wrong before and what are you doing now?

From my (recent) experience I think he means that with good core strength, you can transfer more weight onto the pedals rather than rest on the saddle and bars like a sack of potatoes.

[zigzag]

Hi Z. Interested in your post, and I also read a recent post of yours along the lines of "until I learned to sit on a bike properly". Can you expand on this? What were you doing wrong before and what are you doing now?

I've been advised to do Pilates too, so I'm going to be looking for classes in a couple of weeks after I move flat.

hi SP, having good flexibility and good core strength helps to sit with pelvis rotated forward, making the "tail" part of your back more vertical, as in the photo below. this in turn helps to keep soft tissues between sit-bones tucked in and out of harm's way. when pedaling, strong core keeps lower back steady, which reduces friction in spinal discs(?) - no/less pain in lower back. strong and engaged core also helps to keep shoulders down and relaxed, head steady (no bobbing). fizi:k website has some good information about lower back flexibility and how it affects your pelvis position on a saddle.

[mr magnolia]

Well, it's much harder work than tai chi.

Having my hips touched by a young lady talking about ribbons and Velcro made it feel far from hard work.
I'm going to repeat the experience again.

[rogerzilla]

Welease Woger!

Oh, Pilates.

[Wowbagger]

I think if I weleased Woger in my pilates class I'd be drummed out.

[mattc]

"until I learned to sit on a bike properly". Can you expand on this? What were you doing wrong before and what are you doing now?

hi SP, having good flexibility and good core strength helps to sit with pelvis rotated forward, making the "tail" part of your back more vertical, as in the photo below. this in turn helps to keep soft tissues between sit-bones tucked in and out of harm's way. when pedaling, strong core keeps lower back steady, which reduces friction in spinal discs(?) - no/less pain in lower back. strong and engaged core also helps to keep shoulders down and relaxed, head steady (no bobbing). fizi:k website has some good information about lower back flexibility and how it affects your pelvis position on a saddle.

That's really interesting. I only started thinking about this stuff when I first got a lo-pro bike, with the inevitable reading around time-trial positions. (I also noticed that Cavendish has a very different back-neck shape to other pros on their road-bikes, but that's another thread ... )

I tried thinking about my pelvis position more yesterday (on the Audax bike). It's certainly true that if you rotate your hips back, your "soft bits" get pulled a little away from the saddle, and your lower back has to bend more to keep your upper body in the same place. (I also found that when sitting really upright, this stuff seems to make almost no difference, but on the drops it becomes a big thing - might try the lo-pro at the weekend ... ) Whether this will reduce wear-n-tear I just don't know

So I'll look into this some more, I think. Trouble is, I can't see my lower back (and I'm not trained in what to look for) so it will be an imperfect process; but I'm sure thinking about it will help me a little, and it's always good to have a new perspective every few years. Although I've done 1000k+ rides in 'OK' comfort, I could do with more comfort, and I might be storing up problems for future decades.

[henshaw11]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-19729211
 

Funnily enough, talking to one of our gym receptionists some years ago, she said she couldn't do a yoga class because of it's connotations, didn't seem very persuaded by my suggestion that she just view it as exercise (as most other people in the UK I'd imagine).