Alternate day fasting

[clarion]

I do worry about the effect of this fad on those with eating disorders, as they tend to feel affirmed and 'in control' when fasting, which can ne addictive.

Surely it is better to eat regularly and wisely?  OK, so I'm not the best example of someone on top of the whole weight thing.

[Chris S]

Extreme dieting/fasting does not go hand in hand with aerobic exercise.

In fairness, I don't think 2 days in 5 of 600kcals instead of 2000 is "extreme".

Agreed, unless you are planning on cycling for over an hour on 600kcals as well.

True, I guess. What about 7 hours?  .

It was OK - but probably daft, and I won't do it again.

[Ariadne]

Surely it is better to eat regularly and wisely?  OK, so I'm not the best example of someone on top of the whole weight thing.

Well, the whole point is that apparently no, it's not.

I'm not doing this for weight loss, but to prevent Alzheimer's. The impact of a period of low calorie stress on the body seems to be very powerful.

Weight loss would be a nice side benefit but really, if I keep this up long term, then I'll need to be balancing things so I eat enough on the non-fast days to not be losing weight continually.

[L CC]

The weight loss thing is a by-product, even, if what the program was claiming is true.
It's more about improving your health.
I found the re-firing neurons in the mice astounding. I had thought when they were gone, they'd gone.

3 out of 4 of my grandparents had Alzheimer's/dementia. 2 out of 4 died of heart disease, 3 out of four dead before 65, 2 out of 4 dead before 55.

Watch the program Clarrers, I think it's on YouTube now.

[mcshroom]

In my case I'm more trying to redefine my relationship with food, and actually forcing myself to realise that feeling hungry is a normal state of being. If I lose weight through the fasting days then great, but I'm more interested in confronting my poor habit of grazing without really thinking about it which I think will provide better returns for my lifestyle in the long run.

I agree that eventually I will probably go back to eating regularly throughout the week, but as a temporary reset for someone with as much stored energy as myself, I can't see it doing any harm.

[numbnuts]

Yesterday all I had was one small banana, small apple and a boiled egg
Today I had one small banana, small apple and I have just rode 27 hilly miles and feel fine.

[jogler]

my mantra...if you don't eat you die.
ymmv

[L CC]

my mantra...if you don't eat for a long time you die.
ymmv

See? We're talking about a day here or there.
Dunno about you, but I've certainly got the reserves to be able to do that.

[jogler]

I may possibly have sufficient reserves of fat but I cannot cope with feeling hungry:it has a jekyll & hyde effect.
I become rather short fused,nasty in fact,when I'm hugry.

ETA  a long time = four hours.

[hellymedic]

my mantra...if you don't eat for a long time you die.
ymmv

See? We're talking about a day here or there.
Dunno about you, but I've certainly got the reserves to be able to do that.

Everyone who eats has the reserves for one day without food. One day without food is only half a pound of fat; thing is that subcutaneous fat is not the first reserve a hungry body uses.

[Chris S]

Yes, but fat usage is just a side-effect of fasting (living off reserves).

The research presented in the TV programme suggests other benefits related to healthy longevity. The premis being - intermittent (and brief) fasting triggers a repairing mechanism at a cellular level; one that is simply not activated (or is bullied into submission) by the more active metabolism when a continuous energy supply is available.

This leads one to ask - did we originally evolve that ability to repair ourselves, and have just overridden it with our modern calorie dense diets?

[L CC]

I may possibly have sufficient reserves of fat but I cannot cope with feeling hungry:it has a jekyll & hyde effect.
I become rather short fused,nasty in fact,when I'm hugry.

ETA  a long time = four hours.

Ahhh. More an 'I don't eat, you die' kind of thing, then?

[simonp]

I vote we rename this forum to:

YAFDF

[geraldc]

I do worry about the effect of this fad on those with eating disorders, as they tend to feel affirmed and 'in control' when fasting, which can ne addictive.

Surely it is better to eat regularly and wisely?  OK, so I'm not the best example of someone on top of the whole weight thing.

Sod the anorexics, I don't know any of them! It's about time the tubby, on the road to diabetes and heart disease individual finally got their own fad diet to follow. This isn't about body dismorphia/negative body image, but about not wanting to die early from preventable diseases, and losing your marbles too early. 

[L CC]

As fad diets go, I think it's pretty innocuous.
What's the worst that can happen? Erm, nothing. A couple of days a week of being Quite Hungry isn't going to hurt anyone most people. Unless you're diabetic. Most people can easily go a day without food and if the (OMG) American (that blows it) research is correct there may be non-obvious benefits.

'Can't hurt' is my feeling. All those crying 'fad diet' are going to look pretty silly if it turns out to be true, aren't they...

[Ewan Houzami]

Everyone who eats has the reserves for one day without food. One day without food is only half a pound of fat; thing is that subcutaneous fat is not the first reserve a hungry body uses.

What's the first bit to get used in the short term? Deeper stores / around organs?

'Bonk' training where you train low i.e., on an empty stomach used to be a big thing in the sixties and seventies. The idea was along the lines of making the body scavenge for all sources of glycogen before forcing fat oxidisation at higher levels of exertion than normal, and it's even more brutal early morning, as the brain has a major requirement for glycogen soon after waking. It made a modified comeback a couple of years ago, where you train low first thing in the morning, and then eat carbs and then do a high intensity sesh in the afternoon, although I imagine some even newer-fangled theory has come along to replace it.

I've decided just to eat fruit on my low-cal days

[jogler]

I may possibly have sufficient reserves of fat but I cannot cope with feeling hungry:it has a jekyll & hyde effect.
I become rather short fused,nasty in fact,when I'm hugry.

ETA  a long time = four hours.

Ahhh. More an 'I don't eat, you die' kind of thing, then?

I've not yet been sufficiently hungry to try cannibalism but just in case it becomes necessary I'm going to make a list of the tasty women of my acquantance

[hellymedic]

I may possibly have sufficient reserves of fat but I cannot cope with feeling hungry:it has a jekyll & hyde effect.
I become rather short fused,nasty in fact,when I'm hugry.

ETA  a long time = four hours.

It is possible your blood sugar is swinging rather rapidly.
Eating foods that reduce rapid fluctuation can help.
Have you outgrown your night feed yet?
 

[jogler]

Have you outgrown your night feed yet?
 

Not completely;something similar to this

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/hro4AdTYiTA&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/hro4AdTYiTA&rel=1</a>

is a regular occurrance at joglerville

[Jakob]

I've decided just to eat fruit on my low-cal days

How is that going to work? Fruit isnt exactly low calorie...

[hellymedic]

I've decided just to eat fruit on my low-cal days

How is that going to work? Fruit isnt exactly low calorie...

Most fruit (except bananas & grapes) is not that high in energy.
You'd need to eat about 10 pieces for 5-600 kcal.
After 10 pieces of fruit, you might be bored/bloated/squitty.

Drinking the juice of ten fruits is much less challenging.

[Julian]

Actually, following on from what Clarion said, this thread is freaking me out slightly.  It sounds WAY too much like being back at school with the competitive anorexics.  Okay, most of them were just extreme dieters and only a few actually ended up at Rhodes Farm, but this is exactly how they used to sound.  "Gosh, all I've had today is half a banana and I feel FINE!"  "You had half a BANANA?  Ohmigod I can't believe you had a BANANA, they're full of fat!  All I've had today is half a handful of gravel and I've just done two laps of the lacrosse field and <grabs handful of imaginary skin> I'm still soooooooo fat...."  "Two laps of the lacrosse field?  Pah, I swam the Channel before breakfast before coming in to get fifteen As at A level and I might have a low fat strawberry yoghurt on my birthday!"

Me:  <noshes Twix bar and ignores them>



Okay, that was hyperbole but that vein of conversation was constant.  Most of it was just competitive teenagers being competitive about EVERYTHING including weight and diet, but it sent quite a few of them over the edge.

[Julian]

NB: this is my problem not yours, if you're doing the fasting thing.  Except, you know, unless it is your problem in which case seek advice from a specialist eating disorders clinic.

[simonp]

I've decided just to eat fruit on my low-cal days

How is that going to work? Fruit isnt exactly low calorie...

Most fruit (except bananas & grapes) is not that high in energy.
You'd need to eat about 10 pieces for 5-600 kcal.
After 10 pieces of fruit, you might be bored/bloated/squitty.

Drinking the juice of ten fruits is much less challenging.

A diet of fruit + nuts only, which is a high carb and high fat diet => weight loss. The raw foods from which carbs and fat come don't promote weight gain, it's the packaging of them in caik.

[hellymedic]

I've decided just to eat fruit on my low-cal days

How is that going to work? Fruit isnt exactly low calorie...

Most fruit (except bananas & grapes) is not that high in energy.
You'd need to eat about 10 pieces for 5-600 kcal.
After 10 pieces of fruit, you might be bored/bloated/squitty.

Drinking the juice of ten fruits is much less challenging.

A diet of fruit + nuts only, which is a high carb and high fat diet => weight loss. The raw foods from which carbs and fat come don't promote weight gain, it's the packaging of them in caik.

Caik could produce weight gain but so could processing many foods to concentrate their calories. Few raw foods are high cal but just juicing fruit and grinding peanuts into peanut butter increases caloric yield per mouthful.