Author Topic: Paying children to sing in church  (Read 3292 times)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Paying children to sing in church
« on: 10 December, 2013, 11:24:55 am »
Little Cudzo sings in the school choir. He enjoys it and actually has a good voice (he gets the first from me, the second from his mother!). Last week he came home with a leaflet:
Enjoy singing? Are you a boy aged 8-13? Why not join a city church choir... and earn more than on a paper round ~ just by singing?

It goes on to explain they pay £170 a term, in return for which boys must attend practice every Thursday evening and sing at two services each Sunday. Someone from the church had been in to their school choir.

Now this strikes me as really odd. Firstly, surely most church choirs are taken from the congregation of that church, not recruited from outside (an exception might be cathedrals, which have their own choir school - but they're still very much associated with that church)? Secondly, why are they paid? Thirdly, why do they want only boys, particularly at this age when boys and girls have pretty much the same voices? I had a look at their website and it mentions "Most of our Sunday services are sung, when a choir of boys and men lead our worship, other than during the school summer holidays, when they are also on holiday." I know this church, it's a rather beautiful building right in the city centre. It's Church of England, rather high church, and I think that's what puzzles and disturbs me most, in a strange way - if it was some bizarre cult I'd just write it off as a rather cackhanded way of getting more followers.

Anyway, he's not doing it, because the Thursday practices are too late (finish 9pm - he'd never get up in time the next morning) - and because it all seems a bit odd. But has anybody come across anything like this before?
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Paying children to sing in church
« Reply #1 on: 10 December, 2013, 11:27:53 am »
It's there to maintain a facade.

I think that as soon as you have to pay people to attend services, you need to rethink your 'offer'.
Getting there...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Paying children to sing in church
« Reply #2 on: 10 December, 2013, 11:32:44 am »
Thing is, the children wouldn't be "attending services". That is, they'd be in the choir, not the congregation. Nevertheless, I think it probably is a way of boosting attendance - for many people, the music is probably a big draw (either to that church rather than another - not many people live locally, it's mostly an area of shops and offices - or to church at all). It's not clear whether they give the kids a test and only take the most musical, but with rehearsals and tuition they probably end up sounding pretty good anyway. Perhaps I'll go along one Sunday just to listen!
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Paying children to sing in church
« Reply #3 on: 10 December, 2013, 11:34:26 am »
When I was young and innocent, I sang in a church choir (nearly 20 years ago). It was nothing like £170 a term but I remember that we did get paid, as you got paid a little more each time you did a new ribbon exam. (You wore the ribbon things round your neck and there were different colours, kind of like karate belts ;) ) We got paid for each service and each wedding I think. That was C of E too.

Re: Paying children to sing in church
« Reply #4 on: 10 December, 2013, 11:36:31 am »
Oh, and I joined as I liked singing, (my parents weren't churchgoers) but I did feel like I was 'attending the service'. I became quite religious then, I got confirmed etc.... I've lost all faith I ever had now, but thats another story. I didn't feel that the choir was totally separate to the congregation.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Paying children to sing in church
« Reply #5 on: 10 December, 2013, 11:37:20 am »
Interesting, maybe it's a common practice. But did you (your family) attend that church anyway?
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Paying children to sing in church
« Reply #6 on: 10 December, 2013, 11:38:22 am »
Ok, you've answered that! xpost!
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Ruth

Re: Paying children to sing in church
« Reply #7 on: 10 December, 2013, 11:42:17 am »
There's a subset of Anglicans who are passionate about Church singing. Some choristers regard male-only choirs as the cream of the cream, rating boys' voices as far superior to girls'.  They probably see the continuation of this music as a ministry in its own right, and therefore worthy of forking out cash so it can continue.

It's a shame they have to pay kids to do it, and can't just recruit from their own congregation.  Sign of the times I s'pose.

The Church of England.  Bunch of mad old duffers we are.  But we do generally mean well, y'know.

Re: Paying children to sing in church
« Reply #8 on: 10 December, 2013, 11:45:24 am »
About 30 years ago I got paid 10 quid every three months for misbehaving in the cathedral choir. Weddings were a good gig as we all got 3 quid for each one. We got a fiver whenever we were on Radio 3 and a whopping 20 quid when we did Songs of Praise. That was quite a lot of money for an 11 year old back then!
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Paying children to sing in church
« Reply #9 on: 10 December, 2013, 12:00:19 pm »
Seems it's quite common then. It's certainly a contrast to the many non-church amateur choirs (children's and adults') which require singers to pay to be in the choir!

There's a subset of Anglicans who are passionate about Church singing. Some choristers regard male-only choirs as the cream of the cream, rating boys' voices as far superior to girls'.  They probably see the continuation of this music as a ministry in its own right, and therefore worthy of forking out cash so it can continue.
Music as ministry, or art of whatever form as ministry is an idea I rather like. But their leaflet really does emphasise the money, and it seems this is what the bloke who spoke to them made his main point, rather than "singing in church". Though there's certainly no attempt to hide it being a church.

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It's a shame they have to pay kids to do it, and can't just recruit from their own congregation.  Sign of the times I s'pose.
I wonder how they would react to boys singing in their choir if they were already worshippers at some other, non-C of E, church?

Quote
The Church of England.  Bunch of mad old duffers we are.  But we do generally mean well, y'know.
Yeah, generally!
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Paying children to sing in church
« Reply #10 on: 10 December, 2013, 12:08:14 pm »
I don't think there's anything wrong with paying children to sing in church.
Choral singing is something that should be rewarded. It's not like being in the congregation, they are providing a service for the Service.

[Disclaimer: I have a real soft spot for the sound of boys choirs. Traitor to my feminist principles, I prefer BSE's choir to Lincoln's, as BSE is boys only.]

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Paying children to sing in church
« Reply #11 on: 10 December, 2013, 12:19:42 pm »
I was paid to heard electrons and photons for church services occasionally in my teens.  Nobody tried to convert me or anything. (Though I recommend that fellow techies avoid Christingle services like the plague, unless you particularly enjoy washing the detritus of the post-service orange fight from all your cables.)  There were competent techs amongst the congregation, but as is often the case, they were already occupied playing musical instruments.

It seemed at least as honest for a church to pay an atheist to run a lighting desk as it was for friends of mine to feign Christianity as an outlet for their love of performing music.  And hey, churches have the best tech budgets.  I got to learn to use better kit than my school or the local youth theatre group usually had access to.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Paying children to sing in church
« Reply #12 on: 10 December, 2013, 12:24:31 pm »
I think Roadrunner has revealed a different angle to this, one which does not seem to have been sufficiently emphasised to the kids - at least not in a way that would then be passed on to their parents!
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Paying children to sing in church
« Reply #13 on: 10 December, 2013, 12:42:48 pm »
I'd think very carefully before rejecting an offer like this. Choristers get a very good musical education.