DIY minimum speed

[citoyen]

Why do people ride 600km DIYs? Make it 700 and benefit from all the extra time to have a proper sleep (and go to the pub!)

Because a 600 can be started Saturday morning and finished Sunday evening, so can be more easily fitted into any free weekend without encroaching into the preceding Friday or following Monday.

[mattc]

Why do people ride 600km DIYs? Make it 700 and benefit from all the extra time to have a proper sleep (and go to the pub!)

Because a 600 can be started Saturday morning and finished Sunday evening, so can be more easily fitted into any free weekend without encroaching into the preceding Friday or following Monday.

I think the real reason is that most people haven't even considered this "loophole"; but Citoyen is right - requiring another 12* hours for the event would often be a disadvantage.


*EDITed! Is that right now??

[quixoticgeek]

But I assume as the rule says a minimum of 200km EVERY DAY. If I want to go and do 2x 300km days I do not assume I have a days rest.

That original post is 7 years old, and the rule doesn't say that any more.
The current equivalent text:

9.7.1 The minimum speeds are:
- for events registered as 200 to 600 km – set by the organiser within the range 14.3 to 15kph;
- for events registered as 700 to 1200 km - 13-1/3 kph;
- for events registered as 1300 to 1800 km - 12 kph;
- for events registered as 1900 to 2400 km - 10 kph; and
- for events registered as 2500 km and over - 8-1/3 kph.

So your only question now is, how much time flexibility do you have at intermediate stops (controls)?  Personally I think it's quite ridiculous to even think about passing times at unstaffed (includes all DIY) controls, but that's not the official view.  That said, I don't see a very long bike ride as an excuse for a serial sleepover (disclaimer, never done more than 1400km).

Should there be some 99's in there? What happens between 1200 and 1300 for example?

J

[LittleWheelsandBig]

1299 is a 1200.

[JonBuoy]

9.6.1 Distances are registered and validated in increments of 100 km from 200km upwards.

[quixoticgeek]

1299 is a 1200.

Why isn't it written as 200-699, 700-1299, 1300-1899, 1900-2499, 2500+ ?

Surely that would make it less ambiguous?

J

[LittleWheelsandBig]

It would be less ambiguous for AUK to define what bicycle lighting is but it isn't necessary.

9.6.1 defines ride distance increments, basically when X00 km appears on the odometer/ route website/ whatever.

[JonBuoy]

1299 is a 1200.

Why isn't it written as 200-699, 700-1299, 1300-1899, 1900-2499, 2500+ ?

Surely that would make it less ambiguous?

J

Because of 1299.5

[citoyen]

Although in practice a 1299 would surely be regarded as close enough to a 1300?

[quixoticgeek]

So does that mean a 1800km gets 150 hours, and 1860km gets 155 hours, or 150 hours? The validated in multiples of 100km confuses me.

J

[LittleWheelsandBig]

BRs calculate minimum average speed for the actual ride distance. Riders get 'time credit' for riding beyond the nominal ride distance, 'Xxx'. The rides get validated for the nominal distance, 'X00km'.

BRMs have fixed time limits for nominal distance, so average speed means very little. Riders get no credit for over-distance.

It depends on the ride organiser and/ or validator whether or not 1299 = 1300.

[quixoticgeek]

BRs calculate minimum average speed for the actual ride distance. Riders get 'time credit' for riding beyond the nominal ride distance. The ride get validated for the nominal distance 'X00km'.

BRMs have fixed time limits for nominal distance, so average speed means very little. Riders get no credit for over-distance.

Surely all AUK DIY's are BR or BP, and can't by definition be BRM?

J

[LittleWheelsandBig]

I believe the answer to that is "Yes, obviously!"

The same time limits apply to both calendar events and perms that are BRs or BPs.

[frankly frankie]

Although in practice a 1299 would surely be regarded as close enough to a 1300?

I would say so - but I know some others in high authority don't agree.
Put it this way - 1km in 1300 is about 0.08% of the total distance.  What distance-measuring tools do we use that are reliable to this sort of accuracy?

[citoyen]

Although in practice a 1299 would surely be regarded as close enough to a 1300?

I would say so - but I know some others in high authority don't agree.
Put it this way - 1km in 1300 is about 0.08% of the total distance.  What distance-measuring tools do we use that are reliable to this sort of accuracy?

Quite. And it's presumably for this reason that in other discussions on this subject, at least two of the DIY regional organisers have said that they would accept a route that was a couple of km under distance.

In line with what LWaB says, it's probably best to think of the 100km increments in nominal distances as being indivisible, and whether an actual route distance is rounded up or down should be decided on a case-by-case basis.

[citoyen]

Why do people ride 600km DIYs? Make it 700 and benefit from all the extra time to have a proper sleep (and go to the pub!)

Because a 600 can be started Saturday morning and finished Sunday evening, so can be more easily fitted into any free weekend without encroaching into the preceding Friday or following Monday.

I think the real reason is that most people haven't even considered this "loophole"; but Citoyen is right - requiring another 12* hours for the event would often be a disadvantage.


*EDITed! Is that right now??

When I did my DIY 600 last year, the actual distance was nearer 650km and I did consider rounding it up to 700, although I didn't realise that this would mean a more relaxed time allowance and in any case, I would still have had to be home on the Sunday evening.

[Wycombewheeler]

I haven't broken the 2500km+ DIY distance yet. Next year hopefully. But I assume as the rule says a minimum of 200km EVERY DAY. If I want to go and do 2x 300km days I do not assume I have a days rest. I do assume that if I start late on the first day I don't have to hit 200km, as with finishing on the final day. Just that every day in between needs to be 200km or more; that isn't to say I couldn't continue past midnight, have all day off for a bit of sight seeing and a nap, then begin late evening and continue through doing 200 |+100, 'day off', 100 |+200

Why do people ride 600km DIYs? Make it 700 and benefit from all the extra time to have a proper sleep (and go to the pub!)

All this extra time you think you are benefiting from is time when you woukd normally be asleep either on Friday night or Sunday night.
E.g. I tend to wake each day at 7 and go to bed at midnight. So starting at 7am my 42 hour limit on a 600 takes me to 1am on Monday. 34 of those 42 hours are the time I would normally be awake.
Starting a 700 at the same time gives you until 11am to finish, but of those 52 hours I only get 4 more in time I would normally be asleep so unless i can ride at 25km/h non stop for 4 hours I would be losing more sleep than on a 600.
Anyone who cannot bank enough time for a decent sleep on a 600 would be losing sleep on Friday and Sunday night to get a decent Saturday night. Poor trade.

800 makes more sense 60 hours limit means starting at 7am gives you until 7pm on day 3 so you can ride 3 days of 267km in 12 hours each giving ample time to relax overnight.

[willpom gwraudax]

That original post is 7 years old, and the rule doesn't say that any more.

Missed that and hadn't noticed the rule change, must have been 'recent'.

Why do people ride 600km DIYs? Make it 700 and benefit from all the extra time to have a proper sleep (and go to the pub!)

Because a 600 can be started Saturday morning and finished Sunday evening, so can be more easily fitted into any free weekend without encroaching into the preceding Friday or following Monday.

I think the real reason is that most people haven't even considered this "loophole"; but Citoyen is right - requiring another 12* hours for the event would often be a disadvantage.


*EDITed! Is that right now??

In all likelihood you wouldn't be going out on the lash on a Friday night if heading off on a 600 the following morning. I've done a few 700s now and find that extra 10hrs make for a very comfortable ride. You can spin it many ways. Start late and go through the first night giving you plenty of time off on the second night. Put the kid(s) to bed, nip out for a 100-150 and sleep at home ready for their breakfast then head off for the rest and still get a good sleep the second night. It's the way forward! IMHO 

[willpom gwraudax]

800 makes more sense 60 hours limit means starting at 7am gives you until 7pm on day 3 so you can ride 3 days of 267km in 12 hours each giving ample time to relax overnight.

Yep the longer the better, but if you are constrained to a weekend 700 gives you one extra point and you can get 2 good sleeps in if you wish.

[Wobbly]

In all likelihood you wouldn't be going out on the lash on a Friday night if heading off on a 600 the following morning.

Blimey.

Randonneuring *has* changed, hasn't it...

 

[willpom gwraudax]

Austerity strikes. Pub budget cut backs. I have to rely on DIY now. At least the DNF of a beer at home is greatly reduced as you don't have to factor in stumbling back from a pub before heading off into the night.....

[psyclist]

On the other end of the scale, I don't know what the minumum speed for a DIY BP is - I've just had a friend complete a 50 at 14kpm (rather than 14.3). Is it worth submitting this result for validation?

Certainly. Minimum speed for DIYs under 200 km is 10km/hour.

Can I ask where this is written down? I've checked AUKWEB, and cannot find this anywhere.

I'm looking to do a few mandatory route DIY rides next year which will be under 200km, but I will be wanting to collect the AAA points.

[fuaran]

The regulations for BPs say. http://www.aukweb.net/_resources/files/official/AUK_Regulations_050418.pdf

12.3 Speeds: The minimum speed may be further relaxed at the discretion of the AUK events secretary
A minimum of 10 - 12.5 km/ph and maximum of 20 - 25 km/ph is normal practice.

[psyclist]

The regulations for BPs say. http://www.aukweb.net/_resources/files/official/AUK_Regulations_050418.pdf

12.3 Speeds: The minimum speed may be further relaxed at the discretion of the AUK events secretary
A minimum of 10 - 12.5 km/ph and maximum of 20 - 25 km/ph is normal practice.

Thank you for the link and quote.

How does that work in practice? My planned rides are off-road and rather hilly, so likely to be slow going. I can just enter them as mandatory route DIYs, but it would be helpful to understand what cut-off I should be aiming for. One way would be to contact the AUK events secretary before each ride, and then forward the response to the DIY organiser to ensure the validation is against an agreed minimum speed. But that sounds too laborious for all involved.

Is there a reason why the minimum is not fixed, as it is for events of 200km and above?

[Greenbank]

The comment about the Events Secretary is aimed at organisers not riders. It's so that organisers putting on calendar events with minimum average speeds <10kph are aware of the implications (a calendar 100km BP with a minimum average speed of 5kph would require the organiser to potentially hang around for 20 hours for the last riders).

DIYs are a different kettle of fish, just email the DIY organiser (who may have to check, or has already checked, with the Event Secretary just once) and ask if there's any problem with them validating a BP with a minimum speed below 10kph. I bet they won't have a problem.