Support Vehicle?

[ramchip]

I wondered if anybody has experience of using a support vehicle for PBP. We have registered a support vehicle and understand that the vehicle cant drive on the official route apart from 5km near the controls. Are there set areas where the vehicle can park so we and the driver can sleep?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

No, support vehicles are fairly littered about, outside the controls.

Time penalties are likely to be issued if the support vehicle is along the route, by error or not. I'd be happy to report riders' numbers...

[Tomsk]

Not done this myself, but talking to those that have, it can be massively stressful for the support driver/crew - a severe test of a relationship/friendship ... If you lose touch with your support it can all go horribly wrong for you.

[S2L]

Why doing an event which is based on self reliance, relying on a support vehicle? There are plenty of long distance events that allow support vehicles, like RAAM.
It just seems to be against the spirit of the event

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Bollocks to that. Support between controls = nil. Support at controls = anything up to and including silver service.

It seems to be mostly the Anglos that get all hairshirt about support at controls.

[simonp]

With 6000+ riders if we all had a support vehicle it would be chaos. Actually it is chaos.

[grams]

Support between controls = nil.

Apart from the arrows.

PBP has a lot more in common with a modern sportive than an audax. As long as you approach it on those terms it makes a lot more sense.

[postie]

I know in the past some controls put the parking for support vehicles right out of the way. Ie making it as awkward as possible.

Personally i wouldn't want a support vehicle on any audax.  But that's me, dont really care what others do.

I do remember reading some were that your more likely to fail PBP with a support vehicle! !!

[Ian H]

With 6000+ riders if we all had a support vehicle it would be chaos. Actually it is chaos.

There has been the odd occasion where the number of vehicles littering the roadside and obstructing riders has been just a little irritating.

A fellow we met in Loudeac last year claimed to have seen riders leaving the control, leaping into a campervan and being driven off.

[Phil W]

In 2015 saw a support vehicle on the route between Tinteniac and Loudeac on the outbound leg. But they drove off before I got too close to the gaggle of riders around it.  Make sure your support vehicle stays off the route, even near controls, if it can be avoided.

[zigzag]

i've seen a supporting rider (not riding the event) would find his mate (who was riding pbp) approaching control and "service" him on the go - swap bottles, hand over food, gels etc.
is this kind of support allowed?

[Salvatore]

I remember an account of a PBP ride which appeared in Arrivee many years ago. The author had an ambitious self-imposed target time, and recruited two rellies (wife and brother-in-law, or brother and sister-in-law - something like that) to drive a vehicle and support him. Once the ride started it all gradually went wrong. The two supporters had imagined a few pleasant relaxing days driving across northern France, but didn't realise their schedule would be determined by the pace of the rider, and there would be no chance for them to stop for a long sleep. They also didn't quite realise that they were supposed to wait hand and foot on the rider and indulge his every whim. The supporters fell out with each other and the rider, and he became frustrated with them,  pushing his stress level up, not helped by him falling behind his intended schedule. At some point (let's say Brest - it might have been Carhaix or Loudeac) he told them he'd had enough and to meet him in Paris. He abandoned his schedule, and had a wonderful relaxed ride back to Paris, treating it as a social ride, taking photos and making friends as he went,

I once had an official support vehicle, shared amongst 3 of us (which unofficially became 4), but only because it meant a lift from South Wales to Paris. Supporting 3 riders of different speed was just about impossible. Timm took his job seriously and insisted on staying at a control until the last of his riders had arrived, at which point he made sure they were OK and zoomed off to the next control to try and get there before the first one arrived (although we were together at Brest and the order in which were riding for the first half had reversed by Paris). In the end we told him to go to every other control and try to get some sleep - we were quite capable of looking after ourselves.  However one of us thought he could save weight  during the day by getting Timm to take his lights - he forgot to collect them before evening and ended up without lights as it got dark.  One stoke of genius Timm had was to rearrange his roof rack (a collection of bars and clamps) into a giant flagpole from which he flew a big Welsh flag, and it was therefore a simple task to find him it the chaotic control carparks, although usually we just reported to him for moral support and then used the official control facilities (although I think he was a bit miffed when 2 of us didn't bother to report our presence to him at Tinteniac and went straight to the resto).

4 years later I declined Timm's kind offer of support.

[Ian H]

4 years later I declined Timm's kind offer of support.

Last time I saw Timm was at Dave Lewis's funeral.

[Cudzoziemiec]

i've seen a supporting rider (not riding the event) would find his mate (who was riding pbp) approaching control and "service" him on the go - swap bottles, hand over food, gels etc.
is this kind of support allowed?

I'd deduce from other comments that if it's within the control zone, it's okay. No different from meeting a car, surely?

[Salvatore]

4 years later I declined Timm's kind offer of support.

Last time I saw Timm was at Dave Lewis's funeral.

Same here. A shame John Walker didn't make it.

[Salvatore]

4 years later I declined Timm's kind offer of support.

Last time I saw Timm was at Dave Lewis's funeral.

You, Ian, probably remember what the clamps from Timm's roof rack were used for 4 years later.

[Ian H]

4 years later I declined Timm's kind offer of support.

Last time I saw Timm was at Dave Lewis's funeral.

You, Ian, probably remember what the clamps from Timm's roof rack were used for 4 years later.

I had to think for a moment, but perhaps Best forgotten.

Bill died a few years ago, and I discovered that he was a leading light in Torrington literary circles.  Who'd have known?

[Exit Stage Left]

Heather's got a lot of experience of supporting. She tells me that she's spent three hours in a bed in 5 PBPs between the start and the finish, and that was in Tinteniac after she packed in 1999. The rest of her snatched sleep has been on tarmac, floors, or the back of a car or van while supporting me or filming.

She usually had a red 'Official' number on the vehicle, so could go onto the route, but her observations have general value.

You're only likely to average twice the speed of the rider by the time you've attended to all the things you need to do. So there's a need to look at how many of the controls you might cover. Look at the ones that that are nearest to trunk routes. Those trunk routes have changed over time, so don't work from historic accounts.

If you can't go onto the route, you're likely to see a much more modern France than the riders, which isn't always pretty. It can be soulless or run-down, sometimes both. It can be worth taking a bike, so you can park up off the route, and see some of the nice bits. Ambrieres, St Martin or Sizun fill the bill. That's if you've built up enough time.

Decide if you're providing somewhere to sleep for your rider. If it's in an estate car, you'll need to be very disciplined with your packing.

Engage with other helpers. Everyone has the excuse of looking after the needs of the rider if they need some me-time.

Getting anywhere near controls can be difficult, as barriers block the way. Sharing positions on smartphones will help you find each other. A sat-nav is essential.

it will be a lot easier if you've supported a rider on a 12 hour or 24 hour TT. Supporting a rider on PBP with no experience of other cycling events is a recipe for disaster. Heather had started two PBPs, and finished one, run a control on LEL in 2002 and 2005, supported me on 12s and 24s, and I'd supported her on a 24. I'd also completed two PBPs and two LELs prior to her supporting me on PBP 2007 with a press pass and red numbers on the car. That means that she had the spare capacity to look at what she was doing.

The potential to be overwhelmed by the process of supporting is large, and there'll be some bickering and recriminations along the way. That's part of the fun.

The finish in 2015 was a pretty lame affair. Prior to that it was bit of a carnival atmosphere. Hopefully, 2019 won't be such an anticlimax. The finish is as important for supporters as it is for riders.

[Ivo]

As a rider I've ridden PBP both withouth and with support. I've never had personal support, it was always support on club basis, for several riders.
There are 2 types of club support:
-1 van/ several vans stationary at 1 point
-several vans following the riders and being at nearly each control.
The 2nd version is more tyring for the crew and, that might even be more important, takes you out of the PBP experience. You meet a lot less riders and use the local's help a lot less if you have support at (nearly) every control. I big drawback in my experience.
The first version I really prefer. This is the nice middle ground. You'll still experience the PBP vibe while you have access to extra clothes and are pampered during 2 controls. Most of these group controls are in or around Loudéac control. In 2007 one was organised via YACF's predecessor on Loudéac's campsite.

[Pip]

Hi Ramchip, I've also ridden with twice, and without twice.

I much prefer the former.

It is allowed in the rules and is nothing to be ashamed of.

A van stationed at Loudeac (450kms)(775) for two nights and one night at  Mortagne (1075).... or Carhaix (530), Tinteniac (870) and even Dreux (1060), works very well.

Support vehicles are used by approximately half of participants. They take the strain off the excellent controls which would otherwise struggle to cope, especially where demand for showers and sleeping facilities outstrips supply.

In addition to providing on three occasions a timesaving place to sleep and eat, riders also benefit from not having to carry a change of clothing. That is about it.

Only my opinion but other riders' support vehicles enhance the circus-like atmosphere around the controls and make you realise that the event is also tres important for friends and family, some of whom have travelled from afar to witness this unique happening.

Here's a great place to park at Tinteniac 48°19'58.6"N 1°49'26.6"W
48.332951, -1.824051

[Exit Stage Left]

Heather got a couple of interviews with a supporter from New Jersey in 2011. Once at Tinteniac on the return, and again at the finish. That gives some idea of what sort of state someone might be in.



Heather clearly doesn't remember that she'd done the first interview when she does the second one. That's pretty typical. After a few days you get 'face-blindness', a sort of overload. I have had a similar effect described about the villages en-route, where they become like penguins, impossible to tell apart.

The virtue of support is that you get to see someone familiar. If you're new to Audax you might have ridden five events in total, so you won't know many other people. I have compared PBP to arriving at college for the first time, and sitting your year-end exams after settling in for 36 hours, with those exams taking place continuously over a period of up to 90 hours. Subsequent PBPs are different, as you'll know more people, and what faces you.

The sense of validation that people get is similar to exams in many ways. That's possibly the source of the dislike of support. External help undermines the prestige of the award. The older cohort may feel that electronic aids, such as GPS and phones, are like being allowed to take calculators into exams, and that getting round on something archaic is A*.

In reality it's a gruelling cycling holiday, through a generally pretty part of France, which supporters can enjoy too, assuming that they don't try to do too much.

[mattc]

In reality it's a gruelling cycling holiday, through a generally pretty part of France, which supporters can enjoy too, assuming that they don't try to do too much.

Yup, sounds like a good summary!

I'd add that the title of this thread is interesting, in that it ignores the requirement for someone (2?) to actually drive the thing.

[duracellbunnyonabike]

My mum lives in Brittany and wants to come out to cheer me along the side of the route. I guess this is not classified as a support vehicle as she (like many other Bretons I imagine) will just cheer in one location near her home. She wonders if she is allowed to bring any food or drink (for me) or if that is against the rules?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

I imagine that if she offers food etc. to anybody who asks, that would be classified as neutral (not personal) support. If nobody asks for food, she doesn’t have to throw food at riders to avoid classification as ‘personal support’.

[grams]

PBP has its own regs (it’s not a BRM) and they make no mention of non-vehicular personal support, so the answer is whatever you think it is in the spirit of the event, or unlikely to get you into trouble.