Author Topic: [HAMR] More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)  (Read 40732 times)

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #275 on: January 17, 2016, 07:20:50 am »
The records and the attempts at them are astonishing, I'm in awe at what both Kurt and Steve have achieved. For me they've both crossed the largest hurdle which is the mental fortitude to actually ride 365 days of serious distances. This is a hurdle that remains for both Bruce and Kajsa and one that I hope doesn't prove too high for either of them. I do understand that the two records are very different in terms of distance but they still share that constant 365 day hurdle. It surprises me how many comments I have seen that are dismissive of the effort by Kajsa due to the lesser distance.

If we assume the mental fortitude then we are left with the physical and the time on/off bike. For Kajsa and Bruce this seems to be fairly balanced. For Kurt it was balanced and for Steve it's not looking so balanced. The physical side also has the luck element, not getting hit by another vehicle(moped), not getting sick and not having too much in the way of serious mechanicals.

I lack both the mental and physical ability for either record but my gut instinct, assuming all else, is that the defining calculation is on/off bike time. For the mens record this only computes either via long hours or higher speeds, there isn't much wiggle room there.

If you could cycle non-stop, at 8.8mph, for a year then you would be around the mens record....that is staggering. Any time off the bike is created by going faster than that.
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Pedal Castro

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Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #276 on: January 17, 2016, 07:45:58 am »
That is an excellent idea Jack, certainly for windy weekends there could be quite a group of riders helping out.

hillbilly

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #277 on: January 17, 2016, 08:18:41 am »
Hasn't Steve said he doesn't want to be paced by groups, due to the additional risks it involves?  I'd imagine this is doubly so in periods of shitty weather.

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #278 on: January 17, 2016, 11:04:11 am »
A 16.1mph average by Steve yesterday, very good going in these conditions.  Keep it up fella!
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Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #279 on: January 17, 2016, 11:17:52 am »
That's a huge leap in Steve's average and, given the weather yesterday, gives a spark of hope that he can lift the daily mileage back toward where it needs to be. Today in East Anglia, it's a bright, sunny, cool and almost windless day. Conditions don't get much better than this at this time of year. Fingers crossed for more progress in the right direction.

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #280 on: January 17, 2016, 11:18:06 am »
No Strava upload for the 15th (the Tadcaster/York/King's Lynn day).

Anyone in contact with Steve to let him know?
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #281 on: January 17, 2016, 12:46:35 pm »
Can someone clarify the actual highest year mileage ridden by Tommy Godwin?  I gather of course that he set a calendar year record of 75065 miles, but then went on to get a 12mth greater record of 77001 mls(?) from later in the year during the calendar year record attempt to the following year 1940 (when riding towards 100Kmiles)...
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red marley

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #282 on: January 17, 2016, 12:50:39 pm »
There is no retrospective 'find the 365 days in which you rode the most' record. To bring it up now and compare it with all the previous records that required those 365 days to be nominated in advance may have the side effect of diminishing Kurt's record.

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #283 on: January 17, 2016, 12:52:28 pm »
But if you are asking the question who has ridden the furthest in any 365 day period that we know of...

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=87730.msg1800498#msg1800498

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #284 on: January 17, 2016, 01:05:41 pm »
Ah yes, fair enough - record for 'year nominated in advance'... had not fully appreciated this. 

Thanks drg hadn't seen that thread.
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mattc

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Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #285 on: January 17, 2016, 01:48:30 pm »
A 16.1mph average by Steve yesterday, very good going in these conditions.  Keep it up fella!
Does Strava just list moving average?

And does the IvanScience give overall average e.g. about 13mph for yesterday shown here:
http://www.soretween.altervista.org/TeethGrinder/tg381.jpg

(I rarely look at Strava. One reason is that whenever I look at the 1YTT site it is missing several of the last week's Strava days. )
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Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #286 on: January 17, 2016, 02:17:04 pm »
At the risk of duplicating earlier threads my understanding of the Godwin year record is that he was riding to Cycling (now Cycling Weekly)'s rules and verification. The Year was specified by Cycling as a calendar year. The reason for specifying the year in advance was presumably so that a verification process could be put in place in advance. In Godwin's case that process appears to have continued throughout his 100,000 mile record.  So he was not riding to UMCA rules but he does appear, if the Cycling verification is accepted, to have ridden more than 77,000 miles in a period of 365 consecutive days. Whether you describe that as a 'record' obviously depends on how you define that term but, and this is a matter of opinion, it seems just as appropriate (or perhaps just as inappropriate....) to compare a UMCA HAMR with Godwin's higher number as it is to compare it with his 1939 total.

I have no wish to 'diminish' Kurt's ride, which I would interpret as the initial UMCA HAMR, nor would I wish to diminish Godwin's records, all of which seem extraordinary.

As for the current record attempts, setting aside the definition of the most relevant record, it seems that a dedicated supporting vehicle and crew is a common factor that had a hugely significant effect on both Godwin's and Kurt's rides that seem absent from the current attempts.  Without that I think Steve in particular will struggle to get close to the 220 miles a day he'll need for most of the rest this attempt.  But good luck to him anyway.  I hope at least he's enjoying most of the cycling.

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #287 on: January 17, 2016, 02:29:09 pm »
A 16.1mph average by Steve yesterday, very good going in these conditions.  Keep it up fella!
Does Strava just list moving average?

And does the IvanScience give overall average e.g. about 13mph for yesterday shown here:
http://www.soretween.altervista.org/TeethGrinder/tg381.jpg

(I rarely look at Strava. One reason is that whenever I look at the 1YTT site it is missing several of the last week's Strava days. )

According to Strava and the extended stats plugin...

Moving average was 28.4km/h (17.6mph)

Overall average was 25.9km/h (16.1mph)

He was moving for 90.0% of the time.

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #288 on: January 17, 2016, 03:45:07 pm »
 I hope at least he's enjoying most of the cycling.
[/quote]



He'd not miss it for the world!  ;D

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #289 on: January 17, 2016, 08:51:39 pm »
Well, we know with a reasonable degree of certainty that the antagonism from team Steve to yacf is derived from the antipathy of Hoppo, the team leader, despite the association of many of the helpers (and indeed, Steve) with this forum. To have cut off the team from the benefit of plugging into the substantial goodwill here and potential for assistance is a mark of piss-poor leadership. We know that there has been internal team division, again a mark of poor leadership (can't say piss-poor but it sure isn't "good") The only way this could be gainsayed is if the strategy had some discernable benefit, which it does not. His publicising of the disqualification of Bruce is a mark of piss-poor judgement.

Now it is clear that however good the leadership it wouldn't have stopped the moped from running into Steve, but I reckon had Hoppo been up to the job there might  have been a possibility of a better outcome. Maybe someone who knew when and who to get help. It really isn't clear whether changing the structure now would help, but if I was one of the helpers I 'd be thinking about getting together with the others to see if something better could be done so that everyone's efforts had the best chance of success.

As I said before in far more diffident terms, leadership really does make a difference, it's clear that Team Steve lacks effective leadership. Being a world class endurance cyclist does not automatically make a leader.

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #290 on: January 17, 2016, 09:06:33 pm »
I don't believe that Ham, there are several on here that continue to be able to support Steve.

I don't think there's any "cut off". There's a clear recent (within the last week) example of a yacf-er helping Steve with a lift (Lowestoft to Tadcaster) despite the implied anismosity.

You make it sound like all of yacf has been cut off from helping.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #291 on: January 17, 2016, 10:05:12 pm »
I don't believe that Ham, there are several on here that continue to be able to support Steve.

I don't think there's any "cut off". There's a clear recent (within the last week) example of a yacf-er helping Steve with a lift (Lowestoft to Tadcaster) despite the implied anismosity.

You make it sound like all of yacf has been cut off from helping.

Sorry, but I was quite careful to say that there are helpers here, I'd go as far as to say this is the largest single concentration of helpers and potential helpers. I don't know the exact numbers but many who have and continue to give of their time are regular denziens here.

What I am saying is that an effective team leader would have put any personal prejudices aside and made better use of the goodwill and potential assistance that could have been garnered here for the good of the effort, that is all.

Jack_P

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Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #292 on: January 17, 2016, 10:14:59 pm »
Hasn't Steve said he doesn't want to be paced by groups, due to the additional risks it involves?  I'd imagine this is doubly so in periods of shitty weather.

Ok forget the group riding.
 I went back there today for a couple of ice and snow free runs comfortably at almost 18mph, I wasn't hammering; Just for reference it was part of my 11th century this year, I'm not exactly fresh.
Right now with 144 miles for today on the Ivantech and stuck at Kimbolton at 10pm that looks fun  :facepalm:

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Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #293 on: January 18, 2016, 07:08:11 am »
According to Strava and the extended stats plugin...

Moving average was 28.4km/h (17.6mph)

Overall average was 25.9km/h (16.1mph)

He was moving for 90.0% of the time.
I have looked at Strava (I am not a premium member) and the tracking and the average says 20.9 km/h which is 13mph - where do these faster speeds come from. The evidence I can see does not support these speeds.

I hope they are correct because it would show a significant speed up and that is what is required.

BB
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orraloon

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Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #294 on: January 18, 2016, 07:33:25 am »
Is there anywhere published roles and responsibilities of Steve's support team?  Haven't found such on OYTT site.

As per posts ^ above, I raised an eyebrow at the tenor of the CH posts about Berkeley.  Cannot see it the role of a 'team leader' to be finger pointing at others.  And given the seeming lack of proper project management in this attempt, the team leader is doing what?

[Edit.  Just revisited 'The Team' page on OYTT site.  I see the one liners.  I come from a project management background;  if it was me I'd want to see more definition than a simple 'overseeing the whole challenge'.  What does that mean day to day, week to week?]

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #295 on: January 18, 2016, 07:41:20 am »
Is there anywhere published roles and responsibilities of Steve's support team?  Haven't found such on OYTT site.



Do remember that the "team" are all volunteers,who cheerfully (<=assumed) do what they can in the time they are able to. I'd reckon many go beyond the time they have, and some won't live up to their promises. That's the nature of the beast. Whatever else, I am making no implied or actual criticism of those people trying to help. Even Hoppo, who I am sure will have done a lot. But he isn't a good leader, and a good leader might improve matters for everyone involved in the effort.

ElyDave

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Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #296 on: January 18, 2016, 08:24:37 am »
There's a difference between leadership and management and both are needed. Look at English rugby under Clive Woodward, he was never the best player, and not the best coach but he had the organisational vision and the management skills to put an effective team in place to deliver that.
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Justin(e)

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Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #297 on: January 18, 2016, 08:37:43 am »
Well, we know with a reasonable degree of certainty that the antagonism from team Steve to yacf is derived from the antipathy of Hoppo, the team leader ...

Why?

I don't get it.   Maybe it is a self fulfilling prophesy, there do seem to be some negative remarks about Hoppo now - but that is only because of a lack of communication.

What is the reasoning for a long distance UK cyclist staying away from this site?  Was he one of those affiliated to "he who must not be named" from ACF?

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #298 on: January 18, 2016, 08:51:37 am »
I have looked at Strava (I am not a premium member) and the tracking and the average says 20.9 km/h which is 13mph - where do these faster speeds come from. The evidence I can see does not support these speeds.

The tracking under-reads distance (because it is guessing the route between the infrequent live tracking points) and only measures elapsed time.

As an example, here's the 16th Jan on the tracker: http://www.soretween.altervista.org/TeethGrinder/tg381.jpg (286km at 20.9kph)

286km/20.9kph = 13h 41m

This fits with the tracker's first and last live tracking points of 9:39:05 to 23:21:05 (13h 42m).

And here's the GPX file that was uploaded to Strava: https://www.strava.com/activities/472063940 (322.2km with moving time of 12:27:50, elapsed time of 13:49:02).

322.2 / 13h49m02 = 23.32kph (based on elapsed time)
322.2 / 12h27m50 = 25.85kph (based on moving time)

No idea how Strava is managing to pull 28.4kph out of those figures.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #299 on: January 18, 2016, 08:55:36 am »
Well, we know with a reasonable degree of certainty that the antagonism from team Steve to yacf is derived from the antipathy of Hoppo, the team leader ...

Why?

I don't get it.   Maybe it is a self fulfilling prophesy, there do seem to be some negative remarks about Hoppo now - but that is only because of a lack of communication.

What is the reasoning for a long distance UK cyclist staying away from this site?  Was he one of those affiliated to "he who must not be named" from ACF?

I doubt it is that.  I had assumed that it stemmed from his encounter with the unique charm of MattC when they had a disagreement over lights on the 24hour TT a few years ago.  But I think he doesn't like forums in general as he also made a bit of a fool of himself on the TT forum (by complaining about results for a 12-hour not being out immediately) and now avoids that too.