Author Topic: Another go .. TG??  (Read 88700 times)

Re: Another go .. TG??
« Reply #850 on: February 13, 2018, 03:11:58 pm »
Yes, I don't disagree.  I just hope he doesn't feel under pressure. 

grahamparks

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Re: Another go .. TG??
« Reply #851 on: February 13, 2018, 03:36:43 pm »
Yesterday's Strava entry mentions a target of 73,000 (365 * 200 miles) and 160 miles per day.

That's still a lot of miles, but hopefully it'll allow him to back off a bit and get some sleep and enjoy the final 2.5 weeks.

Re: Another go .. TG??
« Reply #852 on: February 13, 2018, 03:55:27 pm »
I can think of an object that's 250,000 miles away, certainly a record to aim for....

in context can anyone think of what would be the next longest mileage in that time? I would imagine some pros might manage 100 miles a day in training / racing but not all year round.

Re: Another go .. TG??
« Reply #853 on: February 13, 2018, 07:52:19 pm »
I can think of an object that's 250,000 miles away, certainly a record to aim for....

in context can anyone think of what would be the next longest mileage in that time? I would imagine some pros might manage 100 miles a day in training / racing but not all year round.

typical PRO mileage is 20-25 k miles per year

Re: Another go .. TG??
« Reply #854 on: February 13, 2018, 09:05:58 pm »
Some days Tommy spent chunks of the day sat in the middle of a fast peloton

I know but those last 3 days look pretty hard to believe; was the fast peleton riding all day with him?

We know the distance is possible as Amanda and Kurt have done it (and Steve is coming very close) but by a different means, bashing out a roughly equal distance throughout the year

I'm with you Martin, I'm glad that the record has been broken as we've been given something that is very much easier to believe, and the more attempts that are made at it seem to suggest that steady daily mileage is the best way.

I don't believe that pacing alone is enough to account for the spell of vastly increased mileage in the middle of the year, and who is this peleton that can afford to give so much time of themselves?

There are better students here of the Year Record, but I'll try: Tommy was a pro and had support from his team. They supplied elite riders to pace him during part of his attempt (I think when the race with a rival was getting tight?). This is a resource not available to any of the 21st Century aspirants!

Look at the pace ridden in the very long Tour de France stages backintheday to see what the pros could sustain all day in a pack. The increase still looks huge, I admit - but it's not inconceivable IMO.

Wrong. Tommy BECAME a pro to take on the year record as he gained sponsorship. He was an amateur for all the years previously and never raced for anyone bar a road club.

There were no pro team pelotons in the 1940s in the UK as you speak of as road racing was dead. It was all track sprinting and time trialling. We are not sure how Tommy got his "pace" the best evidence is that Charlie Davey coaxed him along in a car. There is ZERO evidence on the record of any pro-team pacing. Tommy's attempt was on a shoe string even when Raleigh were sponsoring him (with kit and a coach, not much else). His second biggest day was witnessed by Harry England the editor of Cycling magazine. Not one mention of pelotons, pros, lorries or anything but an incredible effort egged on by his coach.

I am so so so so so so so so so so so fed up with the internet hearsay about Tommy's record almost all of which is 100% supposition.

Re: Another go .. TG??
« Reply #855 on: February 13, 2018, 09:43:35 pm »
I understand the frustration, but given that the pacing was thought at the time to be significant enough to be banned by the teams concerned in the interests of 'sportsmanship', & that his daily mileage dropped  considerably after it was stopped, you have to admit the suspicion is that it consisted of more than some bloke hanging out of the car window yelling 'Come on Tommy, Dig In'
Not implying that he did anything wrong, btw.

Re: Another go .. TG??
« Reply #856 on: February 13, 2018, 10:44:12 pm »

There were no pro team pelotons in the 1940s in the UK as you speak of as road racing was dead. It was all track sprinting and time trialling. We are not sure how Tommy got his "pace" the best evidence is that Charlie Davey coaxed him along in a car. There is ZERO evidence on the record of any pro-team pacing. Tommy's attempt was on a shoe string even when Raleigh were sponsoring him (with kit and a coach, not much else). His second biggest day was witnessed by Harry England the editor of Cycling magazine. Not one mention of pelotons, pros, lorries or anything but an incredible effort egged on by his coach.

I am so so so so so so so so so so so fed up with the internet hearsay about Tommy's record almost all of which is 100% supposition.

well it may be hearsay but I'm struggling to buy how anyone could ride 361 miles in a day and then 289 the next, on a steel bike with just a support car.

June 1939 distances

19th 258 miles
20th 295 miles
21st 361 miles
22nd 289 miles

What's the longest recorded (one day, not overnight) distance that was recorded in Steve Kurt or Amanda's recent attempts?

mattc

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Re: Another go .. TG??
« Reply #857 on: February 13, 2018, 10:54:30 pm »
I thought I'd dig back into some old discussions of this. I doubt many people have seen this, so I though it was worth reposting. Does anyone know this guy? Sounds like he's done his research:

"There are better students here of the Year Record, but I'll try: Tommy was a pro and had support from his team. They supplied elite riders to pace him during part of his attempt (I think when the race with a rival was getting tight?). This is a resource not available to any of the 21st Century aspirants!"

Sorry you know me, I have to step in a bit here.

Tommy was not a pro in the modern day sense. He was a pro by definition of being sponsored. He only rode a maximum of 3-4 months (May to August) with support from Charlie Davey in a car. I find no record at all of any team of riders drafting him, these sorts of teams did not exist in the UK as road racing was dead. Raleigh mainly sponsored track sprinters, these guys would not and did not ride with him day in day out.  He was "paced" by Davey shouting at him from the car. Bennett had Rene Menzies shouting at him from a sidecar. It's possible the two of them drafted the occasional lorry.

Steve is bloody amazing. Tommy and Bernard were equally amazing. All three fought the British roads man-to-road.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Another go .. TG??
« Reply #858 on: February 13, 2018, 11:09:05 pm »
But he also says:
‘We are not sure how Tommy got his “pace” ‘
The point is, whatever it consisted of, it was significant enough to have an effect on his riding.. So significant that for whatever reason it was decided to ban it. Whatever ‘it’ was.


Re: Another go .. TG??
« Reply #859 on: February 14, 2018, 07:35:55 am »
I understand the frustration, but given that the pacing was thought at the time to be significant enough to be banned by the teams concerned in the interests of 'sportsmanship', & that his daily mileage dropped  considerably after it was stopped, you have to admit the suspicion is that it consisted of more than some bloke hanging out of the car window yelling 'Come on Tommy, Dig In'
Not implying that he did anything wrong, btw.

It dropped as he went into winter following a pattern that seems consistent with the light fading and the onset of war removing his ability to use lights. He was also ahead of target and ahead of his main rival by now.  There was definitely an impact on his figures by the mutual agreement between the two bicycle manufacturers to leave them alone, but not as big as you imply.

But I'm a massive fan of facts. Which is why I've spent years looking for the mileage cards, photos of Tommy in a team, entries in the Raleigh accounts paying for said team and personal accounts etc... I found one account as I've stated previously of the editor of Cycling magazine who followed Tommy on a 300 mile day makes no reference to any means other than Davey.

Help me find the facts? Not from your computer but from the record. Not from the implication of pacing but from some words on paper that actually happened. It's like the "fact" that he went to Ireland to ride for a bit but did not like it. I cannot find a shred of evidence and trust me I've looked everywhere. The only photo I found of Godwin with other riders was a rally at the end of the record and he was on the bloody front!! Also remember that Bennett was accused of the same, no photos of him in packs, no mention of other riders only mention of Menzies and his motorbike.

Trouble is in the day of the internet everyone will Google instead, find a forum of audaxers and suddenly some "idea" becomes fact and denigrates this great and pioneering record.  So I am going to keep replying to ensure that it doesn't become another fact. There's enough bollocks out there about Kurt already that is simply not true and he only finished a few years back.

Re: Another go .. TG??
« Reply #860 on: February 14, 2018, 07:37:30 am »
I thought I'd dig back into some old discussions of this. I doubt many people have seen this, so I though it was worth reposting. Does anyone know this guy? Sounds like he's done his research:

"There are better students here of the Year Record, but I'll try: Tommy was a pro and had support from his team. They supplied elite riders to pace him during part of his attempt (I think when the race with a rival was getting tight?). This is a resource not available to any of the 21st Century aspirants!"

Sorry you know me, I have to step in a bit here.

Tommy was not a pro in the modern day sense. He was a pro by definition of being sponsored. He only rode a maximum of 3-4 months (May to August) with support from Charlie Davey in a car. I find no record at all of any team of riders drafting him, these sorts of teams did not exist in the UK as road racing was dead. Raleigh mainly sponsored track sprinters, these guys would not and did not ride with him day in day out.  He was "paced" by Davey shouting at him from the car. Bennett had Rene Menzies shouting at him from a sidecar. It's possible the two of them drafted the occasional lorry.

Steve is bloody amazing. Tommy and Bernard were equally amazing. All three fought the British roads man-to-road.

Just some idiot who researched the Year record for 10 years, brought it back into public attention with a series of articles and then wrote a book about it.

Re: Another go .. TG??
« Reply #861 on: February 14, 2018, 08:36:57 am »
I thought I'd dig back into some old discussions of this. I doubt many people have seen this, so I though it was worth reposting. Does anyone know this guy? Sounds like he's done his research:

"There are better students here of the Year Record, but I'll try: Tommy was a pro and had support from his team. They supplied elite riders to pace him during part of his attempt (I think when the race with a rival was getting tight?). This is a resource not available to any of the 21st Century aspirants!"

Sorry you know me, I have to step in a bit here.

Tommy was not a pro in the modern day sense. He was a pro by definition of being sponsored. He only rode a maximum of 3-4 months (May to August) with support from Charlie Davey in a car. I find no record at all of any team of riders drafting him, these sorts of teams did not exist in the UK as road racing was dead. Raleigh mainly sponsored track sprinters, these guys would not and did not ride with him day in day out.  He was "paced" by Davey shouting at him from the car. Bennett had Rene Menzies shouting at him from a sidecar. It's possible the two of them drafted the occasional lorry.

Steve is bloody amazing. Tommy and Bernard were equally amazing. All three fought the British roads man-to-road.

Just some idiot who researched the Year record for 10 years, brought it back into public attention with a series of articles and then wrote a book about it.

I very much appreciate what you’ve added on here.   Could you pop over to the TT forum and do the same at some point ?

MikeFromLFE

  • Previously known as Millimole
Re: Another go .. TG??
« Reply #862 on: February 14, 2018, 08:41:26 am »
Let me correct that for you 'and wrote a bloody good book about it'

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Too many angry people - breathe & relax.

Re: Another go .. TG??
« Reply #863 on: February 14, 2018, 10:31:48 am »
Haven't read all the comments yet but I probably will in a few weeks time.

The game is up for me.
Mostly killed by sleep apnea. I reckon ifI never cottoned on to my having sleep apnea I'd have got so far behind and felt so terrible by November that I'd have stopped then. I did get very bad!
Getting run over then coming off on ice pretty much ended my getting the men's record. I'm just not recovering fast enough and am still limping along at 13-14mph. Ironically I feel much better than I have in months now that I've taken steps to reduce or maybe even eliminate the effects of apnea. I reckon it really started catching up with me after 2 months but the rote had set in from day 1. It does give possible answers to so many other issues. So much to go into!

I won't try again. Or at least it's highly unlikely. The only way I'd have another go would be if I can have a full support crew and have nothing else to do but ride the bike, eat and sleep. Probably on Flatlands or something similar where I dont have to avoid traffic hold ups and ice etc. It would cost hundreds of thousands for that to happen as it would probably be abroad.

I'll be back here when it's over to explain a whole lot more.
But for now, I'm just aiming for the 73,000. That should be "easy", or at least non stressful and I can enjoy the last few weeks. However, I am hoping that means that the extra sleep that is giving me will rejuvenate me a bit and I can have a good smash up at the end, just to see what might have been with, at least, reduced if not no effects of sleep apnea and injury free. But only time will tell if I get to have that chance.
One of my reasons for riding was to get my name out in the public so I can do other big rides and get the sponsors etc because this is an expensive hobby/career.
It's gone on two years longer than I wanted it to.
Lessons have been learned and I'll come out of it better equiped for future challenges etc. But for the next year I plan to help others, have fun and get back into training, along wth lots of other stuff including writing a book.

Just out for a tactical short 100 miles or so today to avoid strong headwinds tomorrow when I'll start earlier and make up a few miles lost today.

See you all soon. :)

Re: Another go .. TG??
« Reply #864 on: February 14, 2018, 10:45:27 am »
Fair play Steve.

Your adventure has certainly captured a lot of imaginations and to call it awe-inspiring is not really doing it justice.

Enjoy the last bit and hope to see you back in the world of Audax soon!

Chapeau!
'Accumulating kilometres in the roughest road conditions'...

Re: Another go .. TG??
« Reply #865 on: February 14, 2018, 10:55:23 am »
A great effort, and IMO a sensible decision.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Re: Another go .. TG??
« Reply #866 on: February 14, 2018, 10:56:22 am »
73 000

So easy to type.

Seventy three thousand

It seems a lot bigger written out like that. An incredible number of miles. Go Steve
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Another go .. TG??
« Reply #867 on: February 14, 2018, 12:05:15 pm »

One of my reasons for riding was to get my name out in the public so I can do other big rides and get the sponsors etc because this is an expensive hobby/career.


That was always my feeling and it's the most sensible approach. I am not sure it is the most sensible of challenges to achieve your goals. I appreciate "generic mileage" involves a somewhat lower budget than cycling around the world a la Beaumont, but in return you get a lot less public profile too.

Personally I think the "round Britain in 22 days" record is well within your capabilities, it can be done with a reasonably low budget (I once worked it out at somewhere around 3 grand in its leanest, unsupported form). It's a record which is fresher in the mind of people and it's been brought back to the media attention by Guy Martin's failed attempt, so someone already laid the groundworks for you.
In my opinion, if you look for public profile, you will get a lot more by doing that in 20 days, than by "generic cycling" for 365... just a better return on investment.

When Sanders did it, it was all over the local and national news. He was very cunning and arranged for radio interviews along the way, but you could easily do that too and a lot better with modern social media.

Read Sanders book and see what you think

https://www.amazon.co.uk/22-Days-Around-Coast-Britain/dp/0946940037

Re: Another go .. TG??
« Reply #868 on: February 14, 2018, 02:06:08 pm »
Well done steve . Seventy three thousand miles  would be a massive achievement .  Gan Canny steve 

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Another go .. TG??
« Reply #869 on: February 14, 2018, 02:16:09 pm »
Chapeau!
Getting there...

Re: Another go .. TG??
« Reply #870 on: February 14, 2018, 04:21:05 pm »
Go Steve!  All the best for the final push to 73K.
"an inordinate fondness for beetles"

Hillbilly

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Re: Another go .. TG??
« Reply #871 on: February 14, 2018, 05:22:00 pm »
If I started to count from 1 to 73,000 it would probably take around 6 hours. 

More if I have to drink some wine or pause to contemplate why I'm spending my life doing it.

That's a lot of numbers. 

Karla

  • car(e) free
Re: Another go .. TG??
« Reply #872 on: February 14, 2018, 06:06:14 pm »

I won't try again. Or at least it's highly unlikely. The only way I'd have another go would be if I can have a full support crew and have nothing else to do but ride the bike, eat and sleep. Probably on Flatlands or something similar where I dont have to avoid traffic hold ups and ice etc. It would cost hundreds of thousands for that to happen as it would probably be abroad.

<snip>

One of my reasons for riding was to get my name out in the public so I can do other big rides and get the sponsors etc because this is an expensive hobby/career.

Round the world in 77 days.  You heard it here first ;)
Latest tour journal: Bucharest to Berlin

Re: Another go .. TG??
« Reply #873 on: February 14, 2018, 06:12:12 pm »
Incredible, inspirational effort.  Massive congratulations on all you have achieved.   

On the health front.... I hope you have had a proper sleep diagnostics assessment.  If not, then please don't assume that because it feels like you are getting better sleep that the problem is fixed.   You could well still be having apneas and not knowing about it and if you want to do more distance challenges in the future you need to get that sorted.    You could be a prime candidate for cpap treatment so make sure you hassle your GP for a proper diagnosis.

Re: Another go .. TG??
« Reply #874 on: February 14, 2018, 09:13:14 pm »
Chapeau. Amazing.
'Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence'.

Martin John Rees.