Author Topic: 4 children killed in cargo bike on Dutch level crossing.  (Read 2149 times)

4 children killed in cargo bike on Dutch level crossing.
« on: 20 September, 2018, 10:34:42 am »
https://nltimes.nl/2018/09/20/train-hits-trike-oss-four-kids-killed

 :'(   The Dutch cycle paths often cross train lines.   There are barriers & alarms, similar to the UK. 
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Cudzoziemiec

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Re: 4 children killed in cargo bike on Dutch level crossing.
« Reply #1 on: 20 September, 2018, 11:08:20 am »
Doubtless there'll be an investigation, but there are probably four possibilities: either the cyclist crossed despite alarms etc, or the train driver did something wrong, or the system failed in some way (eg barriers not working), or the system is unfit for purpose. The last is surprisingly common (in UK at least) at crossings which are not technically roads, "user operated crossings" with nonintuitive systems.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: 4 children killed in cargo bike on Dutch level crossing.
« Reply #2 on: 20 September, 2018, 11:50:41 am »
"Witnesses told the Brabants Dagblad newspaper that the barriers on the level crossing had been lowered but the front carrier box of the bike had passed underneath it."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/20/four-children-killed-as-train-hits-cargo-bike-at-dutch-level-crossing
Not fast & rarely furious

tweeting occasional in(s)anities as andrewxclark

Re: 4 children killed in cargo bike on Dutch level crossing.
« Reply #3 on: 20 September, 2018, 12:15:40 pm »
Given that the warning lights and sound switch on long before the barriers come down in the Netherlands this all points to driver error.

Re: 4 children killed in cargo bike on Dutch level crossing.
« Reply #4 on: 20 September, 2018, 12:48:51 pm »


Hardly a cargo bike, let alone a cycling accident. An electrically driven people carrier, with a maximum speed of 17, 5 km/hour, designed for use around schools.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: 4 children killed in cargo bike on Dutch level crossing.
« Reply #5 on: 25 September, 2018, 12:18:45 pm »


Hardly a cargo bike, let alone a cycling accident. An electrically driven people carrier, with a maximum speed of 17, 5 km/hour, designed for use around schools.

But treated as a cycle to all intents and purposes.

They are allowed on the fietspad, and are often found finding creative ways to get in the way of cycles.

Having seen how the Dutch approach level crossings, I'm not surprised. Based on the description, I'm thinking a design based more on a gate than a simple barrier would have perhaps prevented it. But unfortunately any comments we make are just pure speculation. This is a tragic incident, but these vehicles remain incredibly safe, and I hope we don't see some knee jerk backlash against them.

J
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Kim

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Re: 4 children killed in cargo bike on Dutch level crossing.
« Reply #6 on: 25 September, 2018, 02:38:36 pm »
The danger here is from the train, not the electric child trolley thing.  The railway crossing is supposed to be designed to mitigate that risk, but in this case it has proven either inadequate or defective (which could include procedural error on the part of the person operating the trolley, perhaps by fumbling with unresponsive controls rather than moving children to safety).  No doubt we'll find out when the outcome of the investigation is eventually published.

Level crossings are notoriously difficult to make safe, and most countries are somewhere behind the UK in level crossing safety.  Bridges are much safer, but hard to do in areas not blessed with an abundance of Geography.

The outcome should be an improvement in safety, not a needless clamp-down on practical vehicles.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: 4 children killed in cargo bike on Dutch level crossing.
« Reply #7 on: 25 September, 2018, 02:56:07 pm »
The danger here is from the train, not the electric child trolley thing.  The railway crossing is supposed to be designed to mitigate that risk, but in this case it has proven either inadequate or defective (which could include procedural error on the part of the person operating the trolley, perhaps by fumbling with unresponsive controls rather than moving children to safety).  No doubt we'll find out when the outcome of the investigation is eventually published.

Level crossings are notoriously difficult to make safe, and most countries are somewhere behind the UK in level crossing safety.  Bridges are much safer, but hard to do in areas not blessed with an abundance of Geography.

The outcome should be an improvement in safety, not a needless clamp-down on practical vehicles.

Agreed.

If you look at most Dutch level crossings, they have a barrier that comes down and settles at about 1m. If you compare that to say the St Dunstans level crossing in Canterbury, a whole gate comes down and blocks everything from 1m to the floor. This would make the whole crossing safer.

Dutch crossings also seem to have a large number with only half barriers.

There have been numerous incidents of trains hitting things on crossings, more than I've heard reported in any other EU nation, tho that may be exposure bias.

There is a concerted effort to remove level crossings on some of the more popular lines. It's weird, until very recently the max speed of Dutch trains was 140kph. Compared to the ~160kph of even your standard class 375 south eastern train. As such there has been a move to increase this speed to 220kph (just shy of the magic 225kph when incab signalling is needed), with a requirement that all Dutch mainline rolling stock purchases must be 220kph capable[1]. With these speed increases the need for grade separation becomes more important. But it's expensive, and made more so by the fact many of the level crossings are next to stations, so it's not just a case of sinking the track further into the swamp...

J


[1] Related useless trivia, The new stock that was bought for the high speed line to replace the botched Fyra acquisition is only capable of 160kph, but HS-Zuid isn't considered mainline, but highspeed line, there is no requirement to be capable of 220kph. Meaning the slow speed trains are faster than the highspeed trains... 

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Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: 4 children killed in cargo bike on Dutch level crossing.
« Reply #8 on: 25 September, 2018, 03:14:37 pm »
It was reported that the cart's brakes had failed. If that's correct, then a skirt might have helped but beyond that it would seem more of a manufacturer/servicing/user error than a railway or systems failure.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: 4 children killed in cargo bike on Dutch level crossing.
« Reply #9 on: 25 September, 2018, 03:36:08 pm »
It was reported that the cart's brakes had failed. If that's correct, then a skirt might have helped but beyond that it would seem more of a manufacturer/servicing/user error than a railway or systems failure.

This is why I am suggesting the full gate/skirt would have perhaps prevented it. Same as it would stop a child running under the barrier. Assuming the design is sturdy enough.

Will have to see what the final report says

J
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Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: 4 children killed in cargo bike on Dutch level crossing.
« Reply #10 on: 25 September, 2018, 04:11:29 pm »
Gates are rare at UK level crossings now but I think most have skirts rather than simple poles. Half barriers are very common though, referring to your post above. In fact I think they're the mandatory type except where crossings are manned (which doesn't have to mean a level crossing keeper physically present, it can be eg CCTV) or user operated, which is a whole different kettle of particularly slimy and smelly fish.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: 4 children killed in cargo bike on Dutch level crossing.
« Reply #11 on: 25 September, 2018, 05:18:24 pm »
There have been numerous incidents of trains hitting things on crossings, more than I've heard reported in any other EU nation, tho that may be exposure bias.

According to the BBC article, on average 11 people are killed every year on Dutch level crossings.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45586492