How to put these up

[Valiant]

I've just purchased 3 of these. They weight almost 15kg each. They came with two of these brackets each




Someone explain to me how these brackets are meant to hold the cabinet? Those screw things don't slot straight in and have to be rotated on two axis by about 30 degrees to go into the slot so they can't just slot in. The wood is so think that they don't have much purchase either. You can't them on the back of the cabinet as 1. it's filmsy 3mm MDF 2. Then a mirror and 3. Can't be built around them.

​Ideas?

[jsabine]

Pure guesswork follows.

Assumptions:
  - you get two brackets and two of those screw/hook things per cabinet
  - the cabinet back panel is set forward by at least the depth of the lips on the brackets
  - the cabinet carcass is at least as thick as the width of the bracket from lip to outer edge

Screw the brackets to the top rear corners of the cabinet carcass, so the lips face away from the wall, towards the back panel of the cabinet.

Drill and plug the wall, and screw in the hooks.

Hook the cabinet brackets over the hooks, so they go into the vertical slots.

This way the weight is borne on the bracket, transferred by the horizontal lips to the top of the cabinet, transferred by the cabinet fixings through the sides to the base and shelves of the cabinet. The vertical lips of the bracket are used only for position.

(Clear as mud I suspect. And as I say, pure guesswork, especially as I don't quite understand what you mean about the hooks not slotting straight in, and needing to be rotated on two axes. Maybe the back of an envelope will help ...)

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

Looking at the fixing vs the weight, you need a fair bit of luck mixed with hope.

This is the sort of thing usual with hanging cabinets:

First a rail screwed firmly to a robust wall:




then a 'hook' attached t'other way up that hooks over the rail.



Have used these loadsa times and they are simple and effective.

[jsabine]

While I'm a big fan of French cleats, I'm not convinced about them for here. I think the fixing to the cabinet would be even less robust than the brackets Valiant has (which I think support some of the weight through the lip, not just through screws into the edge of the carcass), and they'd make the cabinet tilt very slightly forwards.

[Jurek]

While I'm a big fan of French cleats, I'm not convinced about them for here. I think the fixing to the cabinet would be even less robust than the brackets Valiant has (which I think support some of the weight through the lip, not just through screws into the edge of the carcass), and they'd make the cabinet tilt very slightly forwards.

My bold.
Not if you use two rails - one at the top and one at the bottom.
Although I agree with you that you'd need a fairly solid / thick / weight-bearing back panel for that sort of rail to work - and rather than using the small cleat, it'd be better to use another rail - à la split battens.

[Valiant]

Pure guesswork follows.

Assumptions:
  - you get two brackets and two of those screw/hook things per cabinet
  - the cabinet back panel is set forward by at least the depth of the lips on the brackets
  - the cabinet carcass is at least as thick as the width of the bracket from lip to outer edge

Screw the brackets to the top rear corners of the cabinet carcass, so the lips face away from the wall, towards the back panel of the cabinet.

Drill and plug the wall, and screw in the hooks.

Hook the cabinet brackets over the hooks, so they go into the vertical slots.

This way the weight is borne on the bracket, transferred by the horizontal lips to the top of the cabinet, transferred by the cabinet fixings through the sides to the base and shelves of the cabinet. The vertical lips of the bracket are used only for position.

(Clear as mud I suspect. And as I say, pure guesswork, especially as I don't quite understand what you mean about the hooks not slotting straight in, and needing to be rotated on two axes. Maybe the back of an envelope will help ...)

Doesn't work as the screw hooks need to rotate about 30 degrees in twos axis to make them go into the slots. When you have to do that on two brackets at the same time, it's damn near impossible.

[Diver300]

Pure guesswork follows.

Assumptions:
  - you get two brackets and two of those screw/hook things per cabinet
  - the cabinet back panel is set forward by at least the depth of the lips on the brackets
  - the cabinet carcass is at least as thick as the width of the bracket from lip to outer edge

Screw the brackets to the top rear corners of the cabinet carcass, so the lips face away from the wall, towards the back panel of the cabinet.

Drill and plug the wall, and screw in the hooks.

Hook the cabinet brackets over the hooks, so they go into the vertical slots.

This way the weight is borne on the bracket, transferred by the horizontal lips to the top of the cabinet, transferred by the cabinet fixings through the sides to the base and shelves of the cabinet. The vertical lips of the bracket are used only for position.

(Clear as mud I suspect. And as I say, pure guesswork, especially as I don't quite understand what you mean about the hooks not slotting straight in, and needing to be rotated on two axes. Maybe the back of an envelope will help ...)

Doesn't work as the screw hooks need to rotate about 30 degrees in twos axis to make them go into the slots. When you have to do that on two brackets at the same time, it's damn near impossible.

You put the screws into the wall with the hooks upwards. Unless there is something hidden on your photo, the slots in the bracket fit over the hooks.

[Valiant]

Yeah the screws don't actually go into the slots, they're about 3mm too wide. But even then two brackets screwed into the end grain of 12mm chipboard doesn't inspire much confidence.

[Aunt Maud]

Pedant alert........chipboard doesn't have endgrain....... /pedant alert


I'd send them back, as it looks like a rubbish system.

[Valiant]

Pedant alert........chipboard doesn't have endgrain....... /pedant alert


I'd send them back, as it looks like a rubbish system.

Oh you know what I mean.

[jsabine]

Yeah the screws don't actually go into the slots, they're about 3mm too wide.

There's something very odd about your photo then, because they definitely look as though they should fit ... Could you use a couple of screws instead? What's the largest screw head that would fit through the slot?

But even then two brackets screwed into the end grain of 12mm chipboard doesn't inspire much confidence.

Aye, but if some of the weight is being taken on the horizontal lip of the brackets that should help. I've seen some remarkably non-confidence-inspiring brackets take a surprising weight in practice

[Valiant]

The screw head is wider than it looks. The slots will only accept things which are 6mm or less. You could use screws in place of those, but there's not much security as a 3mm knock would be enough to knock them off.

[JennyB]

The screw head is wider than it looks. The slots will only accept things which are 6mm or less. You could use screws in place of those, but there's not much security as a 3mm knock would be enough to knock them off.

I don't think the screws need  go in the slots, which are only there as a byproduct of forming the  lips.. If you fit the brackets to the cabinets as JSabine suggests, I think you can screw the rightangle  hookso into the wall so they fit under the horizontal edges of the brackets. Width isn't critical,  so long as one hook can't slide off.

[jsabine]

That strikes me as a good point, well made.

Gives you a lot more horizontal adjustment too.

[Valiant]

Where do you reckon I can get more of them brackets?

[jsabine]

Dunno, but if you're looking for others for different cabinets, how about https://www.screwfix.com/p/concealed-cabinet-hanger-set/71846?

Think you need holes in the cabinet back though, so they probably wouldn't work for your current ones.

[hubner]

Aye, but if some of the weight is being taken on the horizontal lip of the brackets that should help. I've seen some remarkably non-confidence-inspiring brackets take a surprising weight in practice

If the brackets work the way I think they do, then there's almost no force pulling the brackets out, the bracket screws are mainly to locate the bracket to the cabinet.

All the cabinet weight would be taken by the screws in the wall, and even then the weight of the cabinet would not be pulling those wall screws out horizontally.

[Si S]

I reckon JennyB has it.

If the depth of the hook part is the same as the distance from the underside of the lip to the bottom of the bracket below it that'll mean the force is being transmitted to and spread by that lip, as hubner says the screws on the bracket become almost irrelevant. It'll be the fixings between the top / side of the carcass that become critical. I reckon the hook is pointed to act as a punch and prevent sideways movement if knocked.

I think your biggest challenge at that point will be getting the things level, I can't see any scope for adjustment if the holes you drill are even slightly off.

Note: if you don't get it perfectly vertical then the bracket screws do become relevant.

[Ham]

These are the time most frequently used in kitchen cabinets that allow for post drilling trimming, vertically and horizontally

https://www.screwfix.com/p/nylon-cabinet-brackets-with-mounting-plate-10-pack/91611

[Aunt Maud]

I reckon JennyB has it.

+1

[Valiant]

Oh so yay I think we've figured it out, next step is to find more of the same brackets. The standard kitchen ones won't work for ths purpose.