Upstairs toilet. Any bright ideas

[The Family Cyclist]

We only have a downstairs toilet and bathroom which I think was initially a outhouse that got incorporated to the back of the house. The drainage for this goes along the back of the house. The bog pipe goes down into the floor so can only assume then goes underground to join the drain.

The sink and bath waste pipes go out the wall and into a drain which can only assume joins the sewer that the toilet empties into

We could really do with another toilet especially with two growing kids. I'm just trying to work out if this is doable without a lot of work. The only place we could have a  upstairs toilet would be the front bedroom as we have a large alcove bit we could fit one in but not sure how to make drainage work. Was considering a macerator but still need to get waste from front of house to back. The joists run front to back not across so that's a good thing. However getting waste outs going to be a challenge. Think would need to bring out back of house fairly straight. Into a stack/vent pipe which would need to go down into the courtyard area we have and would need to connect this to the sewer which would involve digging up some of the concrete underneath

Anyone think of a better or out the box solution. I've had a look and no-one has toilets at front of house. Many people have converted one of the back bedrooms to a bathroom and all have stack pipes. Some even out the roof

I might just build a composting toilet for me to use down the garden

[rogerzilla]

If the house drains run to the road, you just need a new stack at the front.  I see it done a lot.  Yes, there is digging, but not much.

[Kim]

Sell the house...

[The Family Cyclist]

Sell the house...

I've considered that but the location is too good for us currently. We have a great community around us, my wife's work is end of the road  and we have a large garden which we wouldn't get anywhere else within budget locally

Rogerzilla as far as I can see only rainwater drains to front/Road  the sewers seem to run along back. Not sure where to

[MattH]

Sell the house...

Peter Parry - that's a name I've not seen in a very long time. And the solution was my first thought too 

[robgul]

IME - under no circumstances install a macerator - unreliable and not good for "positive clearance"

[The Family Cyclist]

Ah missed the sell the house being a link

[rogerzilla]

IME - under no circumstances install a macerator - unreliable and not good for "positive clearance"

At least it's not as bad as installing one in a basement, where it needs to pump upwards and you can imagine what happens when it inevitably needs unblocking.

[Von Broad]

Anyone think of a better or out the box solution. I've had a look and no-one has toilets at front of house. Many people have converted one of the back bedrooms to a bathroom and all have stack pipes.

There's a clue in that fact. First of all you want to work out exactly how the sewer runs. Check out the man-hole covers round the place [your place, neighbours etc] and get a picture of how it all works. That will determine all your options.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Similar situation with our house in York. MrsC was all keen on a macerator toilet at front of house, saying that her dad had installed them. I pointed out that when the macerator toilet ceased working in their house in France, he didn't bother repairing it.

Never did get a second toilet installed in that York house.

[Von Broad]

IME - under no circumstances install a macerator - unreliable and not good for "positive clearance"

I'd be inclined to agree. Don't ask me how I know this.

But....if it's the absolute and only option, they do work, but they have to be respected!

From my experience of houses I've worked in, the crucial thing about macerators in what they're asked to deal with.
Here's a tip: do not, under ANY circumstance dispose of sanitary products into a toilet that has a macerator attached too it.

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

If you are desperate enough to consider a macerator then here is your salvation!

Porta-potti?

Simple, cheap, stood the test of time.

[L CC]

IME - under no circumstances install a macerator - unreliable and not good for "positive clearance"

Agreed.

[Jurek]

IME - under no circumstances install a macerator - unreliable and not good for "positive clearance"

At least it's not as bad as installing one in a basement, where it needs to pump upwards and you can imagine what happens when it inevitably needs unblocking.

We had such an arrangement at one place I used to work.
Failure was aided and abetted by some miscreant mischievously popping a biro top down the loo every few days.
Pimlico Plumbers did very well out of my ex-employer on many occasions as a result.

[Ham]

Rogerzilla as far as I can see only rainwater drains to front/Road  the sewers seem to run along back. Not sure where to

Rainwater ends up in the same sewers, the gully is the U-bend to stop stinkyness.

in some cases, rainwater will go to a soakaway, but rarely if ever in a normal build situation. Look for manhole covers to give you an idea of the run (including in the street, remember street drains end up there, too), lift your manholes up to investigate and it may become clearer. Mostly (!!) sewers run down the middle of the road, about 3m down.

[T42]

We once rented a house that had a Saniflo or similar in the bathroom upstairs.  Before we went there with the estate agent the neighbours told us that the previous occupants had had trouble with it, so I mentioned this when we viewed the place. The goose said "no, it's fine" and pressed the flush to demonstrate, forgetting that the electricity was off.  It appeared to work, but when we moved in we found that the wall of the downstairs loo, directly below, was wringing wet and soggy with the wallpaper hanging off. Didn't smell too great either.

Oh, the pleasures of renting.

Moral: when power be offe, ye wise maen seeketh not to shitte.

[matthew]

Rogerzilla as far as I can see only rainwater drains to front/Road  the sewers seem to run along back. Not sure where to

Rainwater ends up in the same sewers, the gully is the U-bend to stop stinkyness.

in some cases, rainwater will go to a soakaway, but rarely if ever in a normal build situation. Look for manhole covers to give you an idea of the run (including in the street, remember street drains end up there, too), lift your manholes up to investigate and it may become clearer. Mostly (!!) sewers run down the middle of the road, about 3m down.

Whilst in some areas rainwater ends up in the same sewer (Combined sewer), in others there are two separate sewers for rainwater and foul. The second of these scenarios is the higher standard and better as it reduces the risk of overloading the sewers in a storm event but does impose a need to be very careful not to misconnect foul to the surface water drain.

However, given the description of the housing stock I suspect it is a traditional Victorian terrace and that there will be a combined sewer.

[Jaded]

If you install a Devil’s  machine for tenants, make it clear that they should not tip mop buckets into the loo. Especially ones with paper clips in.

[Mrs Pingu]

Here's a tip: do not, under ANY circumstance dispose of sanitary products into a toilet

FTFY

[rogerzilla]

Rainwater never goes into sewers for new builds these days (and hasn't for years), but often does in older houses.  All the shit in rivers is due to rainwater going into the sewer.

[Von Broad]

The joists run front to back not across so that's a good thing.

Well.....

Reminds me of a job I did for a woman during the pandemic. She wanted a toilet upstairs in one of the bedrooms. She was told 'sorry, not possible', and I tended to agree - initially. We had a good look at it, and without going into details [bit difficult to describe], I had to remove and refit a double fitted wardrobe, then ran a soil pipe [luckily], above ground but made a step into the bathroom, then dropped the soil pipe into the joists parallel to the joist, hit a wall, then dropped the soil pipe into the lounge [sounds nice, eh?] really tight to the ceiling and wall, and joined the stack at the back of the house. Boxed it in, and hey presto. Took ages. Looks and lots of fiddling stuff. Forget regs now, but something like 1 in 40 drop for solids and 1 in 100 for fluids, and distances? not sure..
And was she happy? she was well chuffed. And to be honest I was pleased with what I'd done too.

So, make sure you investigate the remote possibility of running a 4inch soil pipe internally first. Often it's not going to happen, but sometimes these things are possible. Sometimes it just needs somebody who is prepared to give it some thought.

[The Family Cyclist]

Thanks for all the advice guys. This forum really is so much more then a cycling forum. I need to investigate front drains as the gutter downpipe runs basically where youd want a stack pipe.

No visible drains out front will much further down road but guess there must as suggested be a drain under road. Our back the rain and waste I'm sure go into same drain/sewer.

Need to try and find out for certain what drains out front. If it can take waste the whole things a (comparative) piece of piss

Oh age wise our house is c1912 and houses opposite are newer but probably 40s ish

Edited just looked out window as it's pissing with rain and there's a manhole cover on the drive of the end house of our block so may exit the backs of houses there

[T42]

If you install a Devil’s  machine for tenants, make it clear that they should not tip mop buckets into the loo. Especially ones with paper clips in.

OTOH it might be advisable to keep a mop bucket in the loo, where it's handy.

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

Rainwater never goes into sewers for new builds these days (and hasn't for years), but often does in older houses.  All the shit in rivers is due to rainwater going into the sewer a failure to invest in the infrastucture for some unknown reason.

[Jaded]

If you install a Devil’s  machine for tenants, make it clear that they should not tip mop buckets into the loo. Especially ones with paper clips in.

OTOH it might be advisable to keep a mop bucket in the loo, where it's handy.

Ah this was a real humdinger.

The Devil's machinery was put into a cupboard, as the letting agents had said the three units next to it had access to a toilet. (Thy did, but it involved going up three flights of stairs to the next floor, then along a corridor to the other side of the building). Yes, there was a high ceiling to these units and, yes, the height was just below the maximum recommended for the Devil's machine. Large loads caused problems, as did mop bucket emptying.

After several 'unblocking' events, the tenants in the three units decided that decommissioning and accepting there was no nearby toilet facility was better than brown floods in their service corridor.