Riding style - traffic-handling techniques

[Wowbagger]

Arising from this thread.

The statistic quoted in this article, that 85% of women cyclists killed in London have been run over by HGVs, is pretty startling. In the same article, it claims that most men killed are the victims of cars.

Nutty asked "In what way would this statistic make me think about my riding style?"

In one sense, I am always thinking about my riding style, every time I'm on the bike and there's other traffic around. However, an awareness that so many women have been victims of one traffic type, which must be a relatively small minority of London's traffic, is pretty startling. The other side of the coin, that men killed by traffic tend to be victims of cars, is less remarkable, but nevertheless makes me wonder what can I do, that I don't already do, to avoid collisions.

I suppose the question needs to be considered: do we have a pre-determined riding style or do we assess each situation as it arises and, based on experience, make what we hope is the best decision?

[her_welshness]

It's an interesting one and I would have to stand on the fence and say that it is a mixture of both. Pre-determined stance as in you know your commute extremely well and at certain points you adopt measures which a) puts you in a safer position in the road b) removes yourself away from traffic that you would rather not be in front of c) making sure that you are behaving in a responsible way towards others. However no one knows for sure what situation will arise but if those worrying stats for female cyclists are true then transport planners, cycling lobbying groups and ourselves have to promote safer and more assertive cycling in traffic to eradicate these deaths. I think it would be a great focal point for Bike Week this year and we are already planning for this at our workplace, in light of recent events.

[Wendy]

I have a suspicion that less assertive riding ends up being too far left, which encourages more stupid overtakes by HGV drivers.  There's a very good reason for being out in the lane across junctions - I seem to deter at least 2-3 left hooks every commute by doing this.

Then again, more riding left might also mean more temptation to undertake big vehicles.  I saw a woman cyclist do just that with a bus the other night.  And jump many red lights.  Her helmet and hiviz kept her safe though.

[clarion]

I think you've got it exactly, Mike, on both points.  I find I tend to ride higher than most cyclists.  It pisses some drivers off, but it does mean I can control what's happening better, and I don't often get tempted into an undertake.

[Greenbank]

There's something to be said for the theory that drivers will subconsciously give you a similar amount of room on your right when overtaking as you're giving yourself on the left from the kerb.

It'd be interesting for that bloke who did the overtaking distance experiment to see if it's true.

However, the closest overtakes I've had recently have both been whilst in primary position. I'm 99% sure that the drivers were both trying to "teach me a lesson" for being in the middle of the lane (despite, in both cases, there being a whole perfectly empty lane to my right and a queue of traffic at lights 50 yards ahead). Both times it was a private hire vehicle from the same firm.

[nuttycyclist]

For me it's "assess each situation as it arises".

Yes I can see that my riding style could be "aggressive" leading to car conflicts as per the linked article, but that's because around town (my main riding location) I'm always looking for the overtake, so ride much the same as when on the motorbike.

However once the traffic starts flowing I'm pretty zen and get over to the left to let it all flow past.  Some people might criticise me and say I should be more "primary position", but I say "why bother?  let the cars past and I'll pop out once the speed slows and re-pass the lot of them and more".

Riding my first Audax in a while on Sunday brought back a few observations that I'd forgotten about.  Namely that many riders seem to be out in the middle of the road, and so obstruct the random car that appears until they finally notice it and pull over.  I ride over to the left at all times and so the traffic easily passes (one car per 5 minutes volume of traffic).  

The other observation was that I "flow" more than other riders.  On a flat road my speedo gave a steady pace, but a couple of riders kept catching up, pulling out, dropping back, catching up, etc.  When they did get past they'd stay there a bit then drop back again.  It got on my nerves after about 40 miles as I wasn't interested in their loud conversation (I wanted to hear the countryside) plus I had to be constantly aware of where they were as I felt they were putting me at risk of collision at times.   Also those riders were ones that as soon as we'd gone over the top of a hill they hit the brakes in front of me and blocked the road.  When I did get past and dropped them hugely by freewheeling down the hill I didn't always have the pace to freewheel up the other side (as they'd slowed me down), and so by the top of the next climb they'd be trying to force past again while puffing like a steam train with the effort of trying to sprint up a hill without a run up.


So, observations from this waffle and how do I think we should ride?

Zen, go with the flow, be very observant, overtake if the traffic slows and don't cause an obstruction if the traffic is flowing faster than you're riding.   Be a little fish swimming free in the tide of the traffic.

[Ian H]

Zen, go with the flow, be very observant, overtake if the traffic slows and don't cause an obstruction if the traffic is flowing faster than you're riding.   Be a little fish swimming free in the tide of the traffic.

This has to be learnt. You can't do it if you're too timid, or too aggressive. It's more difficult to do if you are unable to maintain a reasonable speed.

[Wobbly John]

Maybe it's just that the car drivers are tooo busy looking at the women cyclists arses to notice the male cyclists...

... and the lorry drivers, being higher up, get too close trying to look down the women's tops.

 

[Wobbly John]

BTW, I think 'assertive' is a better word to use rather than 'aggressive'.

I would hope that nobody on here routinely rides aggressively. 

[ed_o_brain]

Nutty,

You are starting to sound like a buddhist!!
I'm not a buddhist so I don't believe in Zen, although I accept it's important to stay calm.

You make a good point about stop/start cyclists. I think I'm generally quite good at the flow thing although I must admit to maybe filtering sometimes when I shouldn't and just lately I've been trying to slow down much sooner on approach to a traffic queue and then try and conserve what little momentum remains until the traffic starts moving again.


I have two main concerns when I'm cycling:
 a) being seen and properly processed by driver brains
 b) not inciting agressive behaviour from driver brains


a is easy (in so far as it is possible sometimes).
b sometimes conflicts with a.

I've still not settled on what is best. Even today on the folder, I stayed in secondary position through a wide pinch point and I was buzzed by a driver that didn't alter their line forcing me to swerve right into the kerb to avoid getting struck with their near side mirror.

[nuttycyclist]

I agree re assertive, which is why I put aggressive in quotes.  

Maintaining a steady pace with traffic, just off the rear corner of a car is a safe place (plenty of ways to go) and is also nicely assertive re stamping your presence on the road.  However, to the driver looking in the wing mirror, it could be perceived as aggressive.  I know two drivers have pulled over this week and waved me past  



I know that I am assertive at all times, but in some situations I'm coming close to the line drawn between assertive and aggressive.

[ed_o_brain]

Maintaining a steady pace with traffic, just off the rear corner of a car is a safe place (plenty of ways to go) and is also nicely assertive re stamping your presence on the road.

Which corner?

[Ian H]

Maintaining a steady pace with traffic, just off the rear corner of a car is a safe place (plenty of ways to go) and is also nicely assertive re stamping your presence on the road.

Which corner?

It depends.

[nuttycyclist]

Nutty,

You are starting to sound like a buddhist!!
I'm not a buddhist so I don't believe in Zen, although I accept it's important to stay calm.

The only budda like thing about me is my wobbly belly  

I've still not settled on what is best. Even today on the folder, I stayed in secondary position through a wide pinch point and I was buzzed by a driver that didn't alter their line forcing me to swerve right into the kerb to avoid getting struck with their near side mirror.

Each situation needs to be addressed individually.  I have a location on my commute where a dual carriageway bends left, and there is a bus layby on the apex.  Drivers pull out to overtake me, cut through the layby whilst passing me, finish the bend nice and wide then look in their mirror to confirm they are past and pull in  .   In their mind they have overtaken safely, but they are unaware they've cut the corner.

On that location I pull out wide on the approach to the bend, and it works.



However, (going back to zen  ) once you have the experience young grasshopper you will find that "pulling wide" can be as subtle as a few inches.   As soon as you are wide enough to make your presence known that is enough.  Any wider and you start focussing the aggression.

I've posted before the traffic light example.   If I pull up at the traffic lights I stop in the small rut that the nearside wheels of vehicles have made.  The following car driver can see that they cannot fit alongside me so stop behind.  They are happy that I am not causing an obstruction as I am over to the left.  If I'd taken primary by stopping in the middle of the lane then they get angry because I am blocking their road.

[nuttycyclist]

Maintaining a steady pace with traffic, just off the rear corner of a car is a safe place (plenty of ways to go) and is also nicely assertive re stamping your presence on the road.

Which corner?

It depends.

Indeed it does depend.   

On the two occasions this week it has been the rear offside corner (driver's side, near the middle of the road, pretty much where I would be if on the motorbike; and making sure I can see the driver in the mirror so I'm not in the blind spot).

[alexb]

Unfortunately I also suspect there's a stronger statistical bias at work here.

If we assume that most cyclists are men and therefore women are already a minority. I would also suspect that most of the women killed were commuting.

I suspect of the relatively small number of women who ride, very few of that number ride at night, or train outside London.
Statistically this means that most killed will be killed in London during commuting hours.

Since there are a lot more men cyclists, it stands to reason that their deaths will be spread out more both in terms of timings and geographically.

If somehow you could correct for this I think you'd still come up with a number that would be similar. i.e. remove from the stats all male cyclists killed outside central London and outside commuting hours and you'd probably find that most of that subset were also killed by HGVs.

In other words different risk factors come into play during different activities that are also cycling activities.
given that the total number of deaths amounts to about 100 over 5 years this wouldn't be terribly hard to research.

From memory, there were five male cyclists killed out in the 'burbs last year, one was a teenager killed by a lorry in Tooting, there was another killed by a Lorry in Streatham and another killed by a lorry up on Streatham Hill. There was also a man killed waiting at a junction by two cars that were racing, but that was well into the suburbs (out near Crystal Palace from memory).

Within inner London there was a man killed by a skip lorry in Battersea and the guy killed by a bus near Marble Arch, and the poor chap run down near London Wall (also a lorry) so  I suspect the same pattern emerges.

The bottom line is that where traffic speeds are low the chances of death are lower, unless the vehicle involved is large, in which case it makes no difference about the speed....

[simonp]

There's something to be said for the theory that drivers will subconsciously give you a similar amount of room on your right when overtaking as you're giving yourself on the left from the kerb.

It'd be interesting for that bloke who did the overtaking distance experiment to see if it's true.

However, the closest overtakes I've had recently have both been whilst in primary position. I'm 99% sure that the drivers were both trying to "teach me a lesson" for being in the middle of the lane (despite, in both cases, there being a whole perfectly empty lane to my right and a queue of traffic at lights 50 yards ahead). Both times it was a private hire vehicle from the same firm.

I think that was commented on in his results; he found otherwise.

Riding position and helmet
Drivers passed closer to the rider the
further out into the road he was. This is
contrary to what many experienced
bicyclists believed should happen. Drivers
also tended to pass notably closer to
the rider when he wore a helmet (white
circles) than when he did not (black
squares). Riding position and helmetwearing
accounted for 8% of the variance
in overtaking proximities. The helmet
effect was due to shifts in overtaking
distributions rather than qualitative
changes. The position effect operated in
a similar way.

http://www.drianwalker.com/overtaking/overtakingprobrief.pdf

[Wendy]

I remember reading a Californian (I think) report that pretty much took apart a number of points from the Brian Walker one.  I've no idea which one is likely to be more reliable.

[simonp]

I remember reading a Californian (I think) report that pretty much took apart a number of points from the Brian Walker one.  I've no idea which one is likely to be more reliable.

url?

[benborp]

url?

http://www.cyclistview.com/overtaking/

I think the 'rebuttal' is seriously flawed.

[Jeremy Parker]

[snip]

However, the closest overtakes I've had recently have both been whilst in primary position. I'm 99% sure that the drivers were both trying to "teach me a lesson" for being in the middle of the lane (despite, in both cases, there being a whole perfectly empty lane to my right and a queue of traffic at lights 50 yards ahead). Both times it was a private hire vehicle from the same firm.

The moral of that is that although you DO want to ride in the primary postion, you DON'T want to ride in the middle of the lane.

If you ride in the middle of the lane you make the motorist think that he cannot overtake because you are being a dog-in-the-manger.

What you want is for the motorist to think that he cannot overtake because the road is too narrow.

That's why the textbooks recommend using the nearside wheeltrack of the cars as your riding position, rather than the middle of the lane

Jeremy Parker

[simonp]

[snip]

However, the closest overtakes I've had recently have both been whilst in primary position. I'm 99% sure that the drivers were both trying to "teach me a lesson" for being in the middle of the lane (despite, in both cases, there being a whole perfectly empty lane to my right and a queue of traffic at lights 50 yards ahead). Both times it was a private hire vehicle from the same firm.

The moral of that is that although you DO want to ride in the primary postion, you DON'T want to ride in the middle of the lane.

If you ride in the middle of the lane you make the motorist think that he cannot overtake because you are being a dog-in-the-manger.

What you want is for the motorist to think that he cannot overtake because the road is too narrow.

That's why the textbooks recommend using the nearside wheeltrack of the cars as your riding position, rather than the middle of the lane

Jeremy Parker

If you ride in the left hand tyre track, then sometimes there will be plenty space to overtake, and sometimes there will be very little.  Sometimes there'll be just enough to tempt someone.  This is why Primary and Secondary are substantially different.  If by riding in the tyre track you give that unsafe gap, then you're in the wrong position and need to either move to Primary to remove the unsafe gap, or to Secondary to make it a safe gap.  A wishy-washy halfway house is a very bad idea in those circumstances.

[Ian H]

I don't think I have ever considered whether I'm in primary, secondary, tertiary, or whatever position when riding my bike.  I'm sure that, if I concentrated on that, I'd end up hitting something solid. I just go with the flow and it mostly works.

[nuttycyclist]

I don't think I have ever considered whether I'm in primary, secondary, tertiary, or whatever position when riding my bike.  I'm sure that, if I concentrated on that, I'd end up hitting something solid. I just go with the flow and it mostly works.

Yup.

Primary or secondary?  Ignore them, just treat each situation as it comes.   As I said above I use the tyre track a lot of the time, or really block the road; the secret is to demonstrate to the driver behind that there isn't room to pass but also that you are not causing an obstruction.

[Wendy]

That's why the textbooks recommend using the nearside wheeltrack of the cars as your riding position, rather than the middle of the lane

Jeremy Parker

Which "textbooks" are those?  Cyclecraft doesn't say this.  That said, the nearside wheel track is often a good secondary position.