Road safety - perception or statistics?

[Wowbagger]

         Welcome to Sevenoaks, and put your watches back 25 years for cyclists | John M Morrison |
            Environment |
            guardian.co.uk
   

Superb article - a British Roads Crime Survey. Great idea.

[Tim]

Unless it has got a whole lot worse in the past couple of years Sevenoaks wasn't exactly a problem for cycling. It was where I started cycle commuting.

The biggest issue was getting round the traffic jams that could block the road and the fact that the speed limit on Seal Hollow Road meant you caught up the car in front and had to hope the road was clear to overtake.

[nuttycyclist]

That's where the whole perception issue arises.

It's not unsafe - but people think it is.

[darkpoint]

An interesting article,  which reminds me of a bit in my local rag,  which talks about how a rat run near me has had traffic islands installed,  (the big nasty ones).  Anyway since they have been installed there has been 6 car crashes in 2 weeks.*  So the paper and other want them removed to make the road safer.

My points that I can now cross the road so that the road is safer,  just motorists are not slowing down to the appropriate speed seems alien to most people.

The stats apparently speak for themselves,  there are accidents so it must be unsafe.

* one of which involved a car hitting a tree after going on the wrong side of the road / bollards.

[PhilO]

My points that I can now cross the road so that the road is safer,  just motorists are not slowing down to the appropriate speed seems alien to most people.

Aye! I am heartily sick of pointing out to people that all roads are safe; it's the drivers that are dangerous. 

[Karla]

An interesting article,  which reminds me of a bit in my local rag,  which talks about how a rat run near me has had traffic islands installed,  (the big nasty ones).  Anyway since they have been installed there has been 6 car crashes in 2 weeks.*  So the paper and other want them removed to make the road safer.

My points that I can now cross the road so that the road is safer,  just motorists are not slowing down to the appropriate speed seems alien to most people.

The stats apparently speak for themselves,  there are accidents so it must be unsafe.

* one of which involved a car hitting a tree after going on the wrong side of the road / bollards.

I'm not keen on traffic bollards, I'm afraid.  Drivers often try to beat me to them, squeezing an overtake just as I'm about to go through them.  This requires bordeline agressive primary position holding from me, which understandably annoys everyone else.  I'm sure they make pedestrians happier but this is the law of unintended consequences and I'd prefer the roads had zebra crossings or measures to slow all traffic to a safer, easier speed.

When working with safety, we've got to realise that people are agressive, fallible etc and work with that. 

[ScumOfTheRoad]

I'm not keen on traffic bollards, I'm afraid.  Drivers often try to beat me to them, squeezing an overtake just as I'm about to go through them. 

As I read once - pinch points are traffic engineers way of using the soft, squishy bodies of cyclists as mobile speed humps.

Seriously - take a look at any cycle facility, green paitn cycle lane or traffic calming scheme from the point of view of a highway engineer - not from the point of view of someone trying to improve things for cyclists, and a lot of things become clear.
Cycle lanes for instance - they're there to narrow a road down to one lane each way not to make room for cyclists. The highway engineer is just marking the space up and giving the car driver the psychological impression that the road is too narrow to go more than one lane.

[nuttycyclist]

...

I'm not keen on traffic bollards, I'm afraid.  Drivers often try to beat me to them, squeezing an overtake just as I'm about to go through them.  This requires bordeline agressive primary position holding from me, which understandably annoys everyone else.  I'm sure they make pedestrians happier but this is the law of unintended consequences and I'd prefer the roads had zebra crossings or measures to slow all traffic to a safer, easier speed.

When working with safety, we've got to realise that people are agressive, fallible etc and work with that. 

What needs to be done, working with safety etc, is to factor in ALL road users for a scheme.

i.e. don't just focus on bollards as a traffic lane separation scheme, or for pedestrian crossings, but put the design down on paper and then review it to see
1) How each road user will negotiate the scheme
2) Whether there are any conflicts between the various road users once the scheme is implemented.

[darkpoint]

'm not keen on traffic bollards, I'm afraid.

I am not keen on them either for that very reason,  but they do give a safe place to peds to wait while crossing the road.    Which is a small help and makes crossing the road possible where prevously it was risky.

Thus improving the safety of the road for peds,  but as some cars have crashed the stats say otherwise.

[nuttycyclist]

'm not keen on traffic bollards, I'm afraid.

I am not keen on them either for that very reason,  but they do give a safe place to peds to wait while crossing the road.    Which is a small help and makes crossing the road possible where prevously it was risky.

Thus improving the safety of the road for peds,  but as some cars have crashed the stats say otherwise.

If cars are now crashing then there could be an issue with the design, or how road users are interpreting it*.  Especially if a car went to the wrong side of the bollards.

This should have been picked up in review, and thus an alternative scheme designed.  If it is for pedestrians crossing the road then might a zebra crossing/lights have been an alternative?




*(1) Letter in today's local rag.

The Highway Code states you give way to traffic coming from the right at roundabouts.  At the junction of Quesensway and Southchurch Avenue, Southend, there are now two sets of traffic lights.  For what purpose?  On a green light, I moved forward to go round the roundabout, only to almost collide with a car coming from the right.  Who had right of way?

I have seen these lights from the roundabout (i.e. not cycled through them yet) but I thought that they were a pedestrian crossing that has gone in here.  Every time I've seen them I've thought "that's a bit close to the junction..."


*(2) At this junction it is very common for traffic coming out of the road on the left on a green light to turn left and then STOP at the advanced lights in the centre of the picture which are RED    .  

[anth]

If I was being ultra-pedantic my response to the letter would be that EVERYONE had right of way, but only one of them had 'priority'....

citycycling .a priority of pedantry

[Cudzoziemiec]

I'm not keen on traffic bollards, I'm afraid.  Drivers often try to beat me to them, squeezing an overtake just as I'm about to go through them.  This requires bordeline agressive primary position holding from me, which understandably annoys everyone else.  I'm sure they make pedestrians happier but this is the law of unintended consequences and I'd prefer the roads had zebra crossings or measures to slow all traffic to a safer, easier speed.

When working with safety, we've got to realise that people are agressive, fallible etc and work with that. 

Like raised zebra crossings - a combination of speed hump and crossing in one? They work pretty well where I've seen them (admittedly this is in India, where speed humps are used a lot and used strongly - not the wimpy things you have in UK).

[John the Monkey]

If I was being ultra-pedantic my response to the letter would be that EVERYONE had right of way, but only one of them had 'priority'....

You might also point out that green means "Go if it is clear" not "Go while trying to tune the radio back to radio 2 because Chris Moyles is off this week and that show on the local independent station has that really annoying advert on all the time at the moment and I wonder if I remembered to pack bottella's ballet things when I left the house and is it Pilates tonight or is that Wednesdays maybe I'd better phone and check..."

Manchester's bus drivers occasionally like to remind everyone of "Go when it is clear" as a concept by blasting through reds at the turning from Parrs Wood Rd onto Oxford Road.