Wrong-side riding on psychlepaths

[Wowbagger]

Has anyone else noticed a tendency of some people riding on cycle paths to keep right rather than left? It's a minority of cases, but I've had it a few times that I've had to swerve right at the last second to pass someone coming in the opposite direction who is absolutely determined to keep to their right hand side. I always tell them what I think of them.

Are there really cyclists who do no road riding at all and consider that they should behave as pedestrians?

I find it really annoying.

[Si_Co]

Are there really cyclists who do no road riding at all and consider that they should behave as pedestrians?

Of course there are Wow, they are the persistent pavement cyclists, the sort who will ride on a 18 inch wide strip of kerb at a crazy angle constantly threatening to fall into the oncoming traffic because everyone knows it's so dangerous on the roads that virtually instant deth and dismemberment will result should you be on there for more than the time it takes to fly across a junction into traffic against the lights. I see them all the time, including the middle aged bloke last night who sliced right acrosss the front of me as I was approaching a T to turn right. He then stopped on the pavement 10 feet away to use the pelican crossing 

It's not often i use cycle paths but when i do it's with the dog and he runs on the left come what may and will run headlong into anything that does not follow convention, it's amusing to see comprehension dawn in these idiots.

[Biggsy]

Signal to the side that you intend to stay on, and stay on it.  They get the message - at least for that one occasion.  I don't know if it gets it through to their thick heads that they should always ride on the left.

[The Seldom Killer]

Maybe some of them are foreigners and have reverted to what most of the rest of the world do.

But seriously, if someone is approaching you riding on one side of the of the cyclepath, the easiest thing to do is to ride on the other side. It just doesn't really matter and as far as I'm concerned it's not an area where order and homogenisation need to be applied and far greater value is acheived by personal expression. It's another example of the beauty of the bicycle that riders can easily cope with the simple moments of self-indulgence and whimsy of others.

I admit that I do tend to default to the left, but sometimes there's something in the nature of the path where it simply becomes better to switch sides. I'm too lazy to fight it and stubbornly stick to the left because "that's what we do on the roads". We've wisely left the roads for something better, why drag the ordinance of the roads with us? Of course of you come past and tell me what you think, I shall respond in kind.

Look at me suggesting people do what they please, I bet I look like a right crazy radical. Whatever next; voting for a different political party to your parents, drinking coffee during high tea? If I keep up this dangerous nonsense the world will fall off it's axis any minute now.

[Biggsy]

It's not a bad idea to educate them for their own good.  Some of these people don't even ride on the correct side of the road, on the rare occasion they use a bit of quiet road.

The signalling technique works every time.

[andygates]

There are even riders who deliberately ride on the left on road, and on the right on paths, because they think that's what should be done.  Bless.

AFAIK there's no rule for paths because they're not roads.

I hate it.  It means I can't relax and trust in flow.  Mind you, if I did, some anglerfish terrier on an elastic string would soon show me the error of my ways.

[The Seldom Killer]

I trust in flow. It's just that sometimes the flow is different and involves switching across the front of the line of an approaching cyclist. In all fairness, if they're sticking to the "wrong side" then they're probably expecting it.

For those that express a dislike for this "wrong side" cycling, how do you cope with small children on bikes who haven't yet been indentured into the regimented order of the roads and just want to be free to do something they enjoy wherever it takes them? Are they a scourge and a menaced to be stamped out in the name of all that is "how things should be for everyone and no exceptions".

[Biggsy]

For those that express a dislike for this "wrong side" cycling, how do you cope with small children on bikes who haven't yet been indentured into the regimented order of the roads and just want to be free to do something they enjoy wherever it takes them? Are they a scourge and a menaced to be stamped out in the name of all that is "how things should be for everyone and no exceptions".

Of course not.  We can deal with it quite easily.  But still you can attempt to educate them by riding on the left and hoping they will see that it's a good idea to have a convention.  Of course I won't force children to switch over, but at least they see me riding on the left in the distance.

[CrinklyLion]

aksherly... a friend of mine commented recently that he'd spotted eldestcub riding (with his dad) in fairly heavy traffic on fulford road and thought at the time that he couldn't/wouldn't trust his own son, of similar age and who rides every day, to do that.  mainly because they mostly ride on the very very convenient cycle path which goes front door to school door, so his kids just don't have the road skills despite being very regular cyclists.  his lot are actually pretty reasonable, but a lot of kids on that path are really daft.  it does make me wonder how and when they'll make the jump to riding on roads.

it also drives me slightly bonkers to see parents not teaching their kids a bit of common sense, self-preservation and consideration.  a shared use path has to be shared by everyone and being knee-high to a grasshopper doesn't, imo, mean that you should be allowed to get away with not sharing nicely.

[Jedrik]

For those that express a dislike for this "wrong side" cycling, how do you cope with small children on bikes who haven't yet been indentured into the regimented order of the roads and just want to be free to do something they enjoy wherever it takes them? Are they a scourge and a menaced to be stamped out in the name of all that is "how things should be for everyone and no exceptions".

Yebut - if you taught your children the rules of the road and then have some oaf ride into them as he thinks it is his own personal choice on which side of the path to ride and: "It's not your place to educate me" (it happened, really) - what then? 

What about overtaking one of those freedom-of-choice idiots? Your ring your bell - nothing happens. You do a decent: "Hello" - nothing happens. So you think it might be save to pass on the wrong side and just then he remembers that he is not alone in the world and swerves right into you? And on top of that the resulting accident is all your fault and you were speeding anyway. 

[AndyK]

Has anyone else noticed a tendency of some people riding on cycle paths to keep right rather than left? It's a minority of cases, but I've had it a few times that I've had to swerve right at the last second to pass someone coming in the opposite direction who is absolutely determined to keep to their right hand side. I always tell them what I think of them.

Are there really cyclists who do no road riding at all and consider that they should behave as pedestrians?

I find it really annoying.

Me too. The solution is not to use Southend's seafront cycle paths during the 'tourist hours' of the day or at weekends. 

[teethgrinder]

It's very common on the Milton Keynes Redways.
On blind left hand bends, I usually take the racing line so that I can see further around the bend. When I have an oncoming cyclist on the wrong side, I don't immediately move to the right, what if they do the same? I stay to the left and see if they move for a second or two. I look at their body language and see if I think they are paying attention. If not, then I'll go right, if they are, I'll stay put, even move more to the left and slow down if I have to. If they're stubborn, then I'll go right. If I wanted to "educate" them, I'd stop, but I'm just trying to get by.
Pedestrians added to the mix complicate things a lot more. It really doesn't help that the Redway Code tells pedestrians to walk on the right (allthough they tend to walk wherever they like mostly) But with pedestrains on their right coming towards me and me on the left, as per Redway Code, add an oncoming cyclist on their left, then I'm heading straight towards the pedestrians and a cyclist. I slow down and keep left. The cyclist will get to me first. But the pedestrians don't know about the cyclist behind them, they see a cyclist heading towards them with no intention to move over, keeping to the side that they are on. So they step to their left and have a close call with the cyclist behind them. I always slow down so that the cyclist will pass them, then \I can move over to pass the pedestians, but the pedestrians don't know my plan, they just see me coming towards them.
When I'm approaching pedestrians from their rear and have an oncoming cyclist, I slow down and go behind the pedestrians, whichever side they are on and stay in line behind them if they move to one side and keep quiet so they don't know I'm there and they don't forget about the oncoming cyclist and try to dodge me and end up into the path of the oncoming cyclist. Otherwise, they sometimes look behind, see me and scatter or just jump around if it's just one.
Those are the most common scenarios I encounter on the redways, there are lots of others so having people just do what they like is a nice idea, but a bit daft and makes things a lot more complicated than it needs to be for everyone.
My daily commute is sometimes like a comedy video game. I have small kids on foot with their mums, on bikes, sometimes riding in circles or just weaving among their friends on foot going to school and kids on scooters. Kids running around, playing games and generally being kids. I just have to go extra slow for a bit. Gives me a bit of a laugh some days though, better than stopping at the busy road junction I'd have to use and wait for a gap in the busy traffic to turn right.
I think that most people think of cyclepaths as being the same as footpaths, where there are no rules about what side you cycle on. There are Redway guides with a set of rules on them and a map of the Redways, but I doubt that many people even konw that these guides exist let alone that theare are a set of rules. I usualy snatch a load of guides when I see them and give them to people I think would like one. They certainly don't seem to be common knowledge.
I'd only "educate" kids if I thought they were dangerous to themselves or other kids by riding fast and annoying people. I'd catch with up them and tell them where they can do some proper racing/touring/mountain biking or whatever, tell them what I do and ask them to be a bit carefull around others, just like I do. Never felt the need yet though.

[Biggsy]

I was fibbing earlier.  I squirt anyone in my way with my water bottle, adults and children alike.

(click to show/hide)

Not really.  I'm very reaxed on paths (despite my gentle education programme of GENERALLY sticking to the left and indicating that way).  If I want to go fast I use those things called "roads".  Let's all keep taking the chill pills.

[The Seldom Killer]

Yebut - if you taught your children the rules of the road and then have some oaf ride into them as he thinks it is his own personal choice on which side of the path to ride and: "It's not your place to educate me" (it happened, really) - what then? 

What about overtaking one of those freedom-of-choice idiots? Your ring your bell - nothing happens. You do a decent: "Hello" - nothing happens. So you think it might be save to pass on the wrong side and just then he remembers that he is not alone in the world and swerves right into you? And on top of that the resulting accident is all your fault and you were speeding anyway. 

Yeah but, you've taught them rules of the "ROAD". Isn't teaching them to apply them away from the "ROAD" a parenting fail? Sometimes you have to teach them something else. Obviously it's a more complex contruct, but perhaps you have to teach them that there are no specific or binary rules to govern behaviour and that they should be learning to use judgement, experience, foresight and safe practice. Even more complex, you might have to teach them that it's reductive and self-defeating to pigeonhole someone as an oaf when they're exhibiting what is quite likely, within a broader context of their life and how they've lived and experienced it up until that point in time, a justifiable pattern of learned behaviour.

As for your second scenario, how would you categorise the person if they were a pedestrian rather than a cyclist. Would they still be a "freedom of choice idiot"? It's not your fault because you are "speeding". It's your fault for not accepting that there simply are no rules or laws or even any hard or fast conventions governing this type of behaviour within this environment. Therefore if you wish to overtake or pass then the onus is on you to ensure your own safety or accept the absence of it. That might extend to slowing down,
continuing efforts to attract their attention before passing until successful,
failing attempts to gain their understanding of the actions that you wish to take; waiting until such time as you can make a manouver and abort it should their pattern of behaviour change to put them in conflict with you
or, should you choose to take the risk, sucking up the consequences if it all goes horribly wrong. At which point, you become the "freedom of choice idiot", not them.

[The Seldom Killer]

But still you can attempt to educate them by riding on the left and hoping they will see that it's a good idea to have a convention.

Ah, but is it a good idea, particularly if it's not a convention that is well adhered to.

Wouldn't it be a better idea to educate them on how to manage themselves in an arena where their patterns of behaviour aren't consistently mirrored by others.

[mattc]

Wouldn't it be a better idea to educate them on how to manage themselves in an arena where their patterns of behaviour aren't consistently mirrored by others.

Part of riding/driving/walking on the roads is assuming that other road users will sometimes break the rules, and being ready for it.

That doesn't mean it's not wise to stick to the conventions.

(By the way; your choice of spelling is boringly conventional - I can understand pretty much every word. What a square! )

[Biggsy]

Hehe.  I've heard they drive on whichever side of the road they like in India, so you'd like it there, SK. 

Yes I do think it's a good idea to have a convention for cycling on paths as well as roads - though I don't get too wound up about it.  I don't believe consistency in this area will turn us into Stepford Wives, but you're entitled to disagree.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Hehe.  I've heard they drive on whichever side of the road they like in India, so you'd like it there.

Most people drive/ride on the left, most of the time. But if it's more convenient for them personally to be the right, they'll be on the right. This is interesting when you are cycling with faster traffic on your right and someone - another cyclist, a motorbiker, tractor or buffalo cart, cars do this rarely - is heading towards you on 'your' side of the road. Do they pass between you and the kerb/verge or between you and the faster traffic? The answer is yes, usually! It's all up for negotiation, as are junctions, traffic signals, etc.

[Jedrik]

Yeah but, you've taught them rules of the "ROAD". Isn't teaching them to apply them away from the "ROAD" a parenting fail? Sometimes you have to teach them something else. Obviously it's a more complex contruct, but perhaps you have to teach them that there are no specific or binary rules to govern behaviour and that they should be learning to use judgement, experience, foresight and safe practice. Even more complex, you might have to teach them that it's reductive and self-defeating to pigeonhole someone as an oaf when they're exhibiting what is quite likely, within a broader context of their life and how they've lived and experienced it up until that point in time, a justifiable pattern of learned behaviour.

Trust me, they know all that and survived their infancies on bikes just fine as nobody here is enforcing their beliefs on others and rather go out of harms way.
I'm just not thinking very kindly about people who can't extend common courtesy to other road users.
For the live of me I can't fathom why anyone would consider it sensible for riders of vehicles to negotiate sides of passing again and again and again, risking that random left-right-left-dance which might result in enforced stops or accidents. Or just waits for children to give way to the adult as they expect them to do while walking.

As for your second scenario, how would you categorise the person if they were a pedestrian rather than a cyclist. Would they still be a "freedom of choice idiot"? It's not your fault because you are "speeding". It's your fault for not accepting that there simply are no rules or laws or even any hard or fast conventions governing this type of behaviour within this environment. Therefore if you wish to overtake or pass then the onus is on you to ensure your own safety or accept the absence of it. That might extend to slowing down, continuing efforts to attract their attention before passing until successful, failing attempts to gain their understanding of the actions that you wish to take; waiting until such time as you can make a manouver and abort it should their pattern of behaviour change to put them in conflict with you
or, should you choose to take the risk, sucking up the consequences if it all goes horribly wrong. At which point, you become the "freedom of choice idiot", not them.

Again, no accidents here because of people who impose their will on the rest of the cycling world.
And again, there is just me thinking how rude it is to decide to visibly despite others and decide for them at what speed they might be wanting to cruise along the path just by claiming the path is not a road with rules but a free for all and now we'll see who is strongest and rules are for suckers.
Right, carry on.

[rogerzilla]

Round here they ride on the right hand side of the road too (where half a mile of road links two sections of cyclepath).  I have had a few near misses because of this.  The pedestrians walk in the road rather than on the pavement, too; it's anarchic.

[Freya]

I've heard they drive on whichever side of the road they like in India, so you'd like it there, SK.

....apart from the 130,000+ RTA fatalities anually

[cyclone]

So Swansea = India ? Have lotsa problems on the seafront path heading to and from Mumbles....Indeed had a head-on with a twonk riding on the right head down earphones on  There were words exchanged....and a few scrapes as a result of the coming together (not the words...)
Thus if I have to get a wriggle on I now use the road....

[woollypigs]

When I cycle on path, (no matter what kind of path) the pedestrians have right of way, I slow down and expect to encounter : cyclist (often less experienced cyclist) on the wrong side, kids, trees, bollards, dogs etc etc.

If I want to go fast(er) I use the roads.

[gordon taylor]

I've heard they drive on whichever side of the road they like in India, so you'd like it there, SK.

....apart from the 130,000+ RTA fatalities anually

That's about the same rate as the USA - four times the road deaths casualties (42,000 pa) and four times the population.

[gordon taylor]

.. I always tell them what I think of them.

I find it really annoying.

I've been pondering this reaction for two days and it bothers me. This is as polite as I can make it:

If you (or I) get told off by a BMW driver who has to steer round us a bit... and finds cyclists really annoying, we call them names, slag all drivers off on the forum and possibly report a few individuals to the police.

How is it acceptable for you to "tell them what you think of them" but unacceptable to be on the receiving end of similar advice?

 

I'm with others above - the more slow people there are meandering around on our roads and paths, the better. IMHO