[HAMR] Time Trials was Re: Tarzan.

[hillbilly]

Thanks mate.   Have a good morning.

I see you don't agree with the convention that a time trial is a race.  Fair does.  Or that Steve is in competition with Kurt and vice versa.  You're entitled to your view.

I don't get why you are being so aggressive.  But then again, I recall you always tend to be one of the more argumentative forumites.  Excuse me whilst I go for a bike ride. Or effing off if you prefer

[Jaded]

I see you don't agree with the convention that a time trial is a race.  Fair does.  Or that Steve is in competition with Kurt and vice versa.  You're entitled to your view.

Thanks, I was waiting for permission to have a view.

So you say it is a time trial. Aren't some types of bike banned for time trials?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

It depends which time trial. CTT bans recumbents. The UMCA doesn't, though they usually have a separate category.

[IanDG]

I have a history of TT and pursuit (with some success).You haven't lost the 'race' because your down with 5/6 of the event still to go. Stay calm, stick to your schedule and if needed pull the stops out closer to the finish.

Edit: this thing is a lot longer than a TT or pursuit so a lot more can happen

[simonp]

UMCA notwithstanding, should Tarzan clock up mile 75,066 first then obv. he'll be the one who broke Tommy's record first.

Yes, assuming he isn’t retrospectively disqualified - then we can start a whole new argument.

[Ivo]

I only state a bit clearer what UMCA suggested by not certifieing it

[citoyen]

Technically a one year event can't be a time trial

Why not?

Does that mean a 24 isn't technically a time trial either?

What is the technical distinction between a time trial and a road ride?

[andyoxon]

I only state a bit clearer what UMCA suggested by not certifieing it

OK got it, just seems a bit odd that the overall record is 'not certified' (though no doubt in line with their constitution).

[Exit Stage Left]

Technically a one year event can't be a time trial

Why not?

Does that mean a 24 isn't technically a time trial either?

What is the technical distinction between a time trial and a road ride?

In a time trial we know the distance but not the time. A 12 or a 24 is the other way round.
When you're talking about 10s, 25s etc. You ask about riders' times. In a timed event you ask, how far did you go?

Everyone tends to call them all TTs, it's only when you ask about performance that the distinction emerges.

[citoyen]

Ok, thought it might be something like that. But while I bow to your superior knowledge and experience, I also bow to LWaB's superior knowledge and experience and he says the opposite... so I'm officially confused.

In any case, whether or not it's a race and/or a time trial is a distraction and not all that important. We as spectators can all take from this what we want and let others call it something different if they prefer.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

http://www.24hourfellowship.org.uk/ has some history and overlap with Audax UK. They refer to 24 hr TTs.

[Exit Stage Left]

http://www.24hourfellowship.org.uk/ has some history and overlap with Audax UK. They refer to 24 hr TTs.

To most intents and purposes there's no distinction. It only really matters to me, as I've got to edit footage of myself asking 24 hour riders if they did a good time. That renders the interview useless, so I have to maintain a distinction between Time Trials and Timed Trials. Either that or use 'did you do a good ride?' or something similar.

[Mr Larrington]

TT?  Race?

(Tries to care.  Fails.)

[Exit Stage Left]

For me a time trial has a result that is a time. The trial bit derives from the idea of reliability trials, which are a form of sanitised racing, without results being published. There's an interesting article from Motor Sport in 1933 that mirrors what some say about sportives today. http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/june-1933/5/future-reliability-trials
I do wonder if the Stravaisation of Audax changes it status.

A Tommy Godwin TT would stop at the record distance, 100,000 miles would be a TT. There are so few 12s and 24s that they tend to get referred to by name.

[Ian H]

For me a time trial has a result that is a time.

"Contre le montre" allows it both ways.

[Exit Stage Left]

Having ridden both the North Roads and Mersey Roads 24s, I wondered why they weren't described as TTs in the Schedule. History I suppose, I did ask, and got the explanation I described. The ESCA event describes itself as a TT, but I'm a traditionalist in many ways, so I like the exception.

[hillbilly]

I've been pondering this whilst pedalling my bike earlier today.

The closest contemporary analogy I could think of is the one hour record.

Thinking about this in great detail, I realised Mr Larrington hit the nail on the head.

And also that jaded was right to point out that the word victory was the wrong one to use.  A better expression would have been "focussed on achieving the record."

[Grandad]

Sure, recently we have see examples in the hour event that he or she who apparently is on course to a world record in the first half, is a gasping shell of an 'amost did it' by the end

Slightly off topic but I sadly I saw this happen to Sarah Storey this afternoon

[David Martin]

For me a time trial has a result that is a time. The trial bit derives from the idea of reliability trials, which are a form of sanitised racing, without results being published.

A time trial is a trial of speed between cyclists who depart the start no closer together than 1 minute. Any measure of distance divided by time, where either time or distance can be the defining metric can therefore be a time trial.

Any other trial of speed between cyclists on the public road is a road race.

I do wonder if the Stravaisation of Audax changes it status.

No, because it is not a trial of speed.

[mzjo]

For me a time trial has a result that is a time.

"Contre le montre" allows it both ways.

No it's against the clock - which to me means a time, not a distance. We do have 12 and 24 hour events but they are usually bunch starts, frequently team relay events, on short circuits and sometimes mtb (which gives a good idea of lighting needs).

[jsabine]

A time trial is a trial of speed between cyclists who depart the start no closer together than 1 minute.

<pedant>
Or, by exception, at 30sec intervals, at least under the CTT's jurisdiction.

[IanDG]

For me a time trial has a result that is a time.

"Contre le montre" allows it both ways.

No it's against the clock - which to me means a time, not a distance. We do have 12 and 24 hour events but they are usually bunch starts, frequently team relay events, on short circuits and sometimes mtb (which gives a good idea of lighting needs).

But there are individual 12 and 24 hour TT's in the UK. It's still a race against the clock the only difference is that in a fixed distance TT the clock stops when you have covered set distance. in a 12 or 24 you stop when the clock stops and distance travelled is recorded.

Likewise a place to place record or a 365 day endurance record is still, in essence, a race against the clock but not a TT in a purist sense.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Perhaps a mod might excise these sorts of diversions into their own threads.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

I meant the discussion regarding definitions of time trials.

[IanDG]

That would be a good idea