Coming soon - the all new Windsor-Chester-Windsor

[Phil W]

How many riders Danial?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

This in from one of the controls:

I'd just like to reiterate that the hall is situated in a very rural area and there are a few homes in the area who are used to absolute peace and quiet during the night time and ANY chatting etc within the vicinity will be likely to disturb them. Please convey this to your colleagues. The local residents will have access to a phone that will summon a hall committee member and the hall can be closed abruptly. In our first telephone conversation you mentioned another village hall that also advised this would happen if residents complained so I hope you understand where I am coming from. Perhaps you could mark out a 'no noise zone' on the route before and after the village hall so your people would know when silence is paramount?

I've had a couple of emails like this from controls that we're going to use at night. They're great controls, in beautiful villages, which I'd be very reluctant to lose. So please, please, pretty please, at the risk of nagging you will have to be absolutely silent outside controls.

Glad I'm missing this edition then.

[jsabine]

While I'm sorry I can't make it, I do wonder about the NIMBYism shown by this kind of bollocks. Sure, no-one wants to be unwarrantedly disturbed, but objecting to disturbance and interfering with other people's enjoyment of the countryside don't have to be the same thing. I wonder how they cope with modern life if normal conversation disturbs them so much.

[hellymedic]

[OT] It's not just the countryside. Partner went to Piano Masterclass in the heart of Hampstead last week. Event over-ran and neighbours complained.
All had to pack up PDQ.
At 22.20 on a Wednesday.
Venue was only licensed for music until 22.00.

I understand car horns may be sounded later.

[alwyn]

How many riders?

190 and falling.

[alwyn]

While I'm sorry I can't make it, I do wonder about the NIMBYism shown by this kind of bollocks. Sure, no-one wants to be unwarrantedly disturbed, but objecting to disturbance and interfering with other people's enjoyment of the countryside don't have to be the same thing. I wonder how they cope with modern life if normal conversation disturbs them so much.

If I had [name of 2014 edition rider with air raid siren voice] outside my house at 11pm, calling his mate a cunt while cackling, I don't think I'd be very happy about it either. I'd probably make a complaint, like the handful of (unrelated) complaints I had about riders shouting outside people's houses during LEL.

These are their villages and their communities, and this is how they like things. The alternative is using service station controls which I really don't want to do.

I'm sure I can count on you all to agree to their polite request.

[mmmmartin]

no problem, alwyn. TBH, after the first 50k I'm usually incapable of speech anyway.

[Feline]

no problem, alwyn. TBH, after the first 50k I'm usually incapable of speech anyway.

+1 
It's just not polite to talk loudly outside people's houses in the middle of the night anyway is it? I would be unimpressed if some sporting event I didn't partake in did it outside my gaff on a work night, so would like to hope any decent riders would not do it to someone else anyway.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

ANY chatting etc within the vicinity will be likely to disturb them. Please convey this to your colleagues. The local residents will have access to a phone that will summon a hall committee member and the hall can be closed abruptly.
SNIP
Perhaps you could mark out a 'no noise zone' on the route before and after the village hall so your people would know when silence is paramount?

This is a polite request?

Enjoy the ride folks. It was a good event with a worthwhile route last year.

[alwyn]

no problem, alwyn. TBH, after the first 50k I'm usually incapable of speech anyway.

+1 

Much appreciated!

[jsabine]

While I'm sorry I can't make it, I do wonder about the NIMBYism shown by this kind of bollocks. Sure, no-one wants to be unwarrantedly disturbed, but objecting to disturbance and interfering with other people's enjoyment of the countryside don't have to be the same thing. I wonder how they cope with modern life if normal conversation disturbs them so much.

If I had [name of 2014 edition rider with air raid siren voice] outside my house at 11pm, calling his mate a cunt while cackling, I don't think I'd be very happy about it either. I'd probably make a complaint, like the handful of (unrelated) complaints I had about riders shouting outside people's houses during LEL.

These are their villages and their communities, and this is how they like things. The alternative is using service station controls which I really don't want to do.

I'm sure I can count on you all to agree to their polite request.

Meh. Shouting, cackling, calling your mate a cunt with an air raid siren - all anti social. Normal conversation, not so much.

"Please could you remind riders that this is a quiet area and residents would appreciate it if they kept the noise down, especially at night. Unfortunately, any significant disturbance might mean we had to close the hall." That's a polite request.

"Please mark out silent zones and tell riders we'll close you down if there is ANY chatting" - really? The threat is neither veiled nor particularly polite ...

Anyway, as Feline says, being reasonably quiet is no more than good manners , so let's hope there are no bad ones ... 190 - blimey!

(Should I be disturbed that I find myself agreeing more and more with LWaB?)

ETA - I'm carping - not what you need, and especially not this close to the event. Apologies, and good luck with this running of it.

[alwyn]

I concede the email I quoted is somewhat strident. My previous conversations with the keyholder, on the phone and in writing, have been considerably more congenial. I would wager much of this email comes from other committee members.

Strip away the strident tone though, and they are saying what caretakers at three other controls/dormitories have said to me, namely that they cannot tolerate noise through the night that disturbs neighbours.

Since very few 600s staff overnight controls this is not an issue organisers face very often. Unfortunately the sort of premises that suit our size tend to be in residential areas. From what I can gather many halls have had problems in the past with parties and weddings that have become raucous, so they're understandably nervous about an all-night event.

One of the controls I'm using turned down Jethro in 2014 because of a fear of noise. The alternative he booked was somewhat inferior, involved mixing with congested road, and probably cost him more. I'm amazed I managed to negotiate a booking and delighted that I did because it means I can use a fantastic stretch of lanes running up to it. But it does mean we're on probation with the noise.

I'm pretty certain we'll acquit ourselves very well. I'm sure they'll relax too once they see that we're nice people who know how to behave. But this is a small challenge AUK will face if it wishes to run more events like this.

[hellymedic]

Thanks for all your strenuous efforts, alwyn!

AUKs are unlikely to be drunk and disorderly mid-ride.

They might be chatty, but this can be controlled (hopefully) and slamming car doors probably won't be an issue either.

Hopefully things will be as quiet and smooth as a new hub...

[alwyn]

I'm as guilty of this as any other rider. I tend to talk much louder when cycling because of the wind turbulence. I can be a bit hyper when I finish pedalling. It's hard to break out of the audax bubble.

One of the complaints I had from LEL2013 concerned two riders repairing a puncture outside someone's house. BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH, apparently, at two in the morning right under an open bedroom window. Happily the complainant wished us well once they'd let off steam and found us suitably apologetic. I have no idea who the riders are but I bet it never occurred to them to consider their surroundings. I'm not saying they are rude people, just that they're caught up in their own world.

More seriously, I can expect some resistance from the community if I try and book the same start for LEL2017 that we used last time. Residents were mobilising after the event to make sure the school didn't take another booking from us. Keeff had to rush out and scold some excitable riders banging car doors and shouting at 5am. We may use another control anyway, and I'm hoping four years is enough time for people to forget about us. But options in NE London for us are limited and I'd prefer not to limit my options further.

[jsabine]

It did occur to me after I'd posted (and edited ...) that "any chatting " might be designed to head off a "but we were only chatting" defence of riders bellowing up the road.

As ever, this all sounds more reasonable as the nuances emerge ...

[marcusjb]

May I humbly suggest that all riders with freewheels should be banned to cut down on their infernal racket? 

No - though worded slightly strongly, the request is reasonable and I would hope that all riders have the consideration for those living nearby.

[mmmmartin]

This all sounds completely reasonable to me and I'm with Feline on the noise front. It's perfectly understandable that noisy weddings and boozing all night will p!ss off people trying to sleep. Not to mention p!ss off poor old Alwyn who has willingly given up a lot of his free time for s0d all in organising this event. 
So we have to make every effort to ensure these venues can be booked again.
Two things might help: big notices saying "Cyclists - silent zone" (must have the word "cyclists" in it to show what we're doing - otherwise they'll think it's 190 people in the hall all night, boozing) would impress residents that the org was trying his best, and perhaps some sort of note to nearby houses about why the signs are up and what we're trying to do - mere mortals tend to be horrified and go down on their knees as if they were in the presence of Gods Of The Cycling World when audax distances are mentioned.
And finally, perhaps a bottle of wine delivered to the nearest neighbours after the event as a "thank you" might open the door to future bookings?
Finally finally, PBP has given miscreant riders a massive time penalty for behaving badly - the control org should have the same power, IMHO.
I can see why riders might think it perfectly reasonable behaviour to talk loudly in the middle of the night in a residential area: they're wrong.

[Hummers]

Thanks for all your strenuous efforts, alwyn!

Most AUKs are unlikely to be drunk and disorderly mid-ride.

They might be chatty, but this can be controlled (hopefully) and slamming car doors probably won't be an issue either.

Hopefully things will be as quiet and smooth as a new hub...

A small adjustment to your post Helly....

H

[Phil W]

To be fair they've seen the 190 riders number and all night factor and put  the two together. Especially if their experience is only if sportives passing through; probably seen large numbers being loud before. The truth is that by the time it gets late, the field will be fairly well spread out, even given the out and back nature. Riders will mostly be arriving solo or in small groups. So I think arrival in villages will be fairly quiet. The danger is when riders come together in the halls and also when they leave. So a few reminders at the entrance / exit of halls wouldn't be amiss either. A reminder sign saying cyclists quiet a couple of KM from a control would be respected without issue I'm sure.

[Exit Stage Left]

I saw this problem in 2007 on the Daylight 600 at Benderloch. The neighbours got irritated and shouted at the window at us at 6am. The problem seems to be that you have to whisper in the hall to avoid waking other riders, and the voice rises when you get outside.
Probably best to treat the whole area in the same way as you treat the inside of the hall.

[Genosse Brymbo]

May I humbly suggest that all riders with freewheels should be banned to cut down on their infernal racket? 

No - though worded slightly strongly, the request is reasonable and I would hope that all riders have the consideration for those living nearby.

OK, I'll leave the shiny new Hope-hubbed rear wheel until after the event.  Also I've practised screaming silently when I got lost on this year's Brevet Cymru within 200m of the Llangattock control and again at the arrivee (note to self - "close" generally implies cul-de-sac).

[haffers]

Understandable in a very quiet rural location and it would be a shame to lose a good location and hope that the original message was less pushy as it is you negotiating the controls. Had something similar where I used to work where we were NOT ALLOWED to drive through a village to get to the work premises and they took number plates of vehicles passing through    Ashamed to say that after I left I went through more than once late at night

MUCH more understandable than on the Cancer Research London SHINE overnight marathon I was a Cycle Marshall for where a Labour dignitary demanded the route be changed mid-event as it was going past his tax payer funded flat/house around Pimlico which is not by any means quiet at night!

Hopefully my snoring will not be heard by the good denizens of this parish either!

[Peter]

It all seems reasonable enough to me.  I'm just envious of a community that is strong enough to make such demands!  Where I live, you ring the police up to reportt gunshots and they say that's a problem for the council's environmental department.

It's hard to get agreement over such things though.  I was out on a moorland walk a couple of years ago with three others.  We passed an isolated cottage at 6am on a Sunday morning.  I suggested we dropped the level of speech and laughter as we passed.  The others looked at me as if I was from outer space.  They are my brothers.  They did shut up, though, but I think that's only because I had the sandwiches.

[Hummers]

None of these requests are unreasonable, are they? 

I would rather be reminded of this before/during the event than find out that an Audax couldn't be run again because it had upset a local community through noise overnight.

H

[Genosse Brymbo]

Does anybody know relative sizes of the two start groups?  I'm a 7:30 starter myself.