Author Topic: Southend Cycle Town - part 2  (Read 237591 times)

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #200 on: 10 April, 2010, 07:14:36 pm »
WTF is Mehmet Mazhar?   ???

Someone who knows less than he should.
Getting there...

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #201 on: 10 April, 2010, 07:29:15 pm »
If there is to be a formal opening ceremony I do hope families attend.  Aren't the child trailers 1m in width?  :demon: :demon: :demon:

My trailer is about 0.7m wide.

I could always carry some large luggage though. Perhaps an inflatable for the beach. ;D

I don't know how wide trikes or tandem trikes can get.

If we find out the opening ceremony ride, perhaps we can use the path in the opposite direction on trikes and with trailers*. :demon:







*I'd have to use the trailer on account that I can't ride a trike.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #202 on: 10 April, 2010, 07:42:44 pm »
....
I will eat my hat if SBC hasnt just taken a few of the Copenhagen design specs that suit them ignored the ones that don't.

Don't forget that they were talking at the meeting of extracting "the best bits" from LTN2/08 and the London design manuals in order to create a Southend Specific design manual.

I wonder what the "worst bits" that they delete will be (and how much of the Cycling England funding that this process will eat up)?

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #203 on: 10 April, 2010, 07:46:27 pm »
It's 0.9m eastbound and 0.9m westbound.
If there is a central divider lane painted (I'm not certain about that at present) then that will further reduce the widths!

If there is to be a formal opening ceremony I do hope families attend.  Aren't the child trailers 1m in width?  :demon: :demon: :demon:
My bent is 52cm wide! How much wobble room does the law allow?

We will never know until it's over when the lane is "officially" open.  ::-)

The windcheetah (which I have often used along there) is 68cm wide

The trailer is 84cm wide.


Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #205 on: 10 April, 2010, 08:45:28 pm »
it just means that I get a bigger and heavier prize  :(

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #206 on: 11 April, 2010, 10:46:04 am »
I have replied:

Dear Mr Mazhar and Cllr Waite,

Thank you for responding to my concerns re. the new cycle path on Western Esplanade. I would like to respond point by point:

1 "At the edge of the finished path there will be a raised rib white line, which will be 20mm in height. This will divert cyclist away from the edge of carriageway."

How wide will this line be?
Will it be painted IN the cycle path or ON the kerb?
Will it further reduce the width of what is already a barely wide enough cycle path for two-way cycle traffic?
Will it be slippery in the rain causing tyres to slip out from under eastbound cyclists in turn causing them to fall left out of the cycle lane into oncoming traffic?

2. "The kerb, which has an upstand and raised line, would in the first instance deflect and errant drivers back onto the carriageway and in the second instance alert them that they have strayed from their path via the ‘rumble’ effect the raised line would provide. It should also be noted that this scenario could occur on any pavement. Some footways in the borough have a lesser upstand than the new cycle track due to years of carriageway resurfacing."

Whether this could happen on any footway is not really relevant as it is illegal to cycle on footpaths and the majority of cyclists would be using the road, not the footpath. Also Western Esplanade is different to other roads in the Borough in that it now has slanted parking bays in the centre of the road, where cars will be pulling out into traffic almost blind because the bays are slanted away from the direction of traffic and drivers have to look back over their shoulder and through parked cars to see if there is anything approaching.
On the new cycle track in Western Esplanade if a child does wobble off the cycle path into oncoming traffic the kerb will prevent them wobbling back onto the cycle path.
What is to prevent drivers swerving into the cycle path if they have to avoid someone pulling out of the new slanted parking bays by Maxims Casino?

3. "The edge of the cycle lane raised rib line will be moved in a little at this point to ensure that there is an adequate buffer zone between the edge of the cycle track and the edge of the parking area. Our parking enforcement service will be advised that vehicles which park outside the bay will be issued with Parking Charge Notices (PCN), as a deterrent."

So the cycle path width will indeed be reduced to below the recommended safe width for a two-way cycle track?
How will the threat of a Parking Ticket prevent doors being opened into the path of cyclists? If a ticket is being issued the offence has already occurred and the danger has not been prevented. This is a reactive measure and not a preventative measure.
The chevron area is not wide enough. It also does not prevent people standing in the cycle path taking most of its width while they load/unload their cars as very young children stand or run unpredictably in the path of cyclists. Experienced cyclists know how to approach such hazards, in summertime the vast majority using this cycle path will not be experienced cyclists.
The only safe solution to this hazard is to remove the parking bays from beside the cycle path.

4. "Once the scheme is formally opened, the parking regulations will be enforced. The yellow line waiting restrictions apply to the back of footway, therefore any vehicles parking on the cycle track or the promenade may receive a PCN."

The yellow lines, high kerbs, red tarmac, clear cycle path signs, and threat of parking tickets do not stop vehicles parking in the already established cycle path east of the Kursaal. See this video clip:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/6mxKho5yQew&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/6mxKho5yQew&rel=1</a>

I doubt very much that a two-inch kerb, double yellow lines, signs and a 'raised white line' will stop this happening on Western Esplanade which is the busiest section of Southend's seafront. There are several snack bars along this stretch where people pull in to buy refreshments and then drive off. Will they struggle to park in the new slanted parking bays, or will they pull into the cycle lane? I believe it is wildly over-optimistic to think they will use the new slanted parking bays as they are too difficult to get in and out of, and it will be much quicker to take the chance of stopping for a couple of minutes in the cycle lane.

5. "There will be marking on the cycle track, which will clearly identify it as a two-way cycle track, not for pedestrian use. Pedestrians currently cross the road between the parking area and the Esplanade. All road users, including cyclists and pedestrians are required to exercise due care and attention to themselves and other road users. In reality most pedestrians will probably wait until cyclists have passed, before crossing."

In reality very few pedestrians wait for cyclists to pass because they do not see the cycle path as 'dangerous', only a minority look before crossing the cycle path, experienced cyclists know this and adjust their speed in anticipation, inexperienced cyclists do not. Also if there are parking bays next to the cycle path any large vehicle, a 4x4 or van etc.' will obscure the cycle path from road crossing pedestrians and pedestrians from cyclists. Again, experienced cyclists know this, in summertime the great majority of cyclists will be inexperienced, with young families and completely unaware of the dangers. Also the great majority of pedestrians will be visitors to the town unaware of the seafront layout.

6. "The approach that we have adopted in the design of this cycle route is similar in many ways to two-way and contra-flow cycle lanes in towns and cities across Europe (e.g. Copenhagen and Stockholm), where the only delineation between motorists and cyclists is a standard kerb. Some of these schemes are considered best practice and as a Cycling Demonstration Town this is what we also aspire to."

The cycle paths on the European mainland are much, much wider than the new Western Esplanade cycle path which is only as wide as a one-way European cycle path.

7. "Having said this, I would like to assure you we have taken your concerns seriously and I would like to reassure you that and that as part of our design processes we monitoring this scheme after its implementation, to ensure that it is successful. At the same time as the scheme is formally opened we will be offering training and advice to cyclists by our trained team of cycling officers."

So if the Council does find the scheme to be dangerously flawed will it be redesigned to properly safe specifications? And will cyclist groups be properly consulted and included in the design stage, instead of being shown the plans just two days before works are completed as has happened with the Western Esplanade project?

Will you also be offering education to drivers that they have a responsibility to be aware of and drive carefully around vulnerable road users?

I believe it would have been much, much safer to simply resurface the existing road and paint a single direction cycle lane on each side of Western Esplanade, outside of any kerbside parking bays, possibly with different coloured tarmac in a similar style to the green advanced stop zones which have been added to various junctions in Southend. The coloured tarmac would have been a VERY clear indication of a cycle path. This would have maintained the carriageway width, leaving it safe to use for both experienced and inexperienced cyclists, and motorists would have been much more aware of the cycle path. It would also have been a lot cheaper.

As it is now both cycle lane and carriageway are either at or below the bare minimum recommended width causing congestion and hazards for both cyclists and motorists. If cyclists are forced out of the cycle lane they cannot get back into it because of the kerb, and while in the carriageway there is not enough width for cars, coaches, vans, trucks etc. to safely pass cyclists.

I have to reiterate, I believe this new cycle path is a very ill-thought out design, and collisions ARE going to happen, possibly with very serious consequences for those involved

Again, thank you both for responding to my concerns, but as you can see, I remain unconvinced that some signs and paint on the cycle lane will have very much effect on improving cyclist/pedestrian/motorist safety.

Kind regards,

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #207 on: 11 April, 2010, 10:59:05 am »
Well done clandy.  :thumbsup: I think your fourth from last paragraph is well put and the best way to achieve what the SBC want for the W. Esplanade.

They know how to do bike lanes in NL.
 A view from the cycle path - David Hembrow: Costings of improvements for cyclists

FatBloke

  • I come from a land up over!
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #208 on: 11 April, 2010, 12:01:31 pm »
Well done clandy.  :thumbsup: I think your fourth from last paragraph is well put and the best way to achieve what the SBC want for the W. Esplanade.


I suggested exactly that to the "Traffic Engineer" at the cycle group, his reponse was that we've got what we've got and it has been safety audited.    :-\
This isn't just a thousand to one shot. This is a professional blood sport. It can happen to you. And it can happen again.

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #209 on: 11 April, 2010, 02:47:55 pm »
Well done clandy.  :thumbsup: I think your fourth from last paragraph is well put and the best way to achieve what the SBC want for the W. Esplanade.


I suggested exactly that to the "Traffic Engineer" at the cycle group, his reponse was that we've got what we've got and it has been safety audited.    :-\

Ask him for a copy of the safety audit. Make it clear that this is a FOI request.
..d
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

FatBloke

  • I come from a land up over!
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #210 on: 11 April, 2010, 04:13:37 pm »
Well done clandy.  :thumbsup: I think your fourth from last paragraph is well put and the best way to achieve what the SBC want for the W. Esplanade.


I suggested exactly that to the "Traffic Engineer" at the cycle group, his reponse was that we've got what we've got and it has been safety audited.    :-\

Ask him for a copy of the safety audit. Make it clear that this is a FOI request.
..d

Already in hand.  :thumbsup:
This isn't just a thousand to one shot. This is a professional blood sport. It can happen to you. And it can happen again.

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #211 on: 11 April, 2010, 04:49:07 pm »

Ask him for a copy of the safety audit. Make it clear that this is a FOI request.
..d


Was CCd into this today:

Hello Mehmet
 
I have had enquiries from residents from all over the town in respect of the matter raised in the attached emails. People are asking for my input as Health & Safety Champion. I have been copied into your correspondence with Mr ****** and I would reiterate my request to the two Andrews, for sight of the Safety Audit which was done in respect of this project.
 
From my own perspective I think that this whole project is flawed and be put back to the drawing board. Three points I would make on this scenario are, you quote Copenhagen & Stockholm, when I last looked they drive on the other side of the road and in most States of America it is illegal to back into a parking space, you have to drive into a chevron space in the direction you are heading. Thirdly the parking along the side of the cycle lane is a serious accident waiting to happen.
 
Your comments and sight of the Safety Audit would be appreciated asap please.
 
Kind regards
Mike
 
 
Mike Assenheim
Independent Councillor
Shoeburyness Ward

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #212 on: 11 April, 2010, 05:27:21 pm »
Since Cllr Assenheim is the Health and Safety representative (so I believe personally responsible for issues?) will he be bringing this matter to the attention of the Health and Safety Executive, or is this down to the concerned residents/cyclists?

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #213 on: 11 April, 2010, 05:49:15 pm »
Since Cllr Assenheim is the Health and Safety representative (so I believe personally responsible for issues?) will he be bringing this matter to the attention of the Health and Safety Executive, or is this down to the concerned residents/cyclists?
Won't they only get involved in work related deaths and serious injury?
Beats me why this hasn't made national news yet? Last week they had a laugh at the short cycle lane somewhere and the Leatherhead lanes. Did A. Wasteite have a moonlight in Surrey?  ::-)

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #214 on: 12 April, 2010, 10:33:12 pm »
Been out for a walk this evening.  I went along a quiet road with some bollards across it and remembered how I used to cycle through there on my way to infant and then junior school every day.

I also remembered how I used to always stop and walk through there because I was scared of cycling into one of the bollards.  I can still remember with pride the first day I did cycle it without stopping, and how I then made a point of doing so each day.

The central gap is about 95cm wide.


Now, if I can remember being a small child and being too scared to ride through a gap 95cm wide on a traffic free road... how are the young children going to cope with a new cycle lane where they have around 90cm to thread between oncoming cyclists and cars?

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #215 on: 12 April, 2010, 10:45:35 pm »
This has been bugging me.  I think I've put my finger on it...

I have just received a reply to my (several) emails:



...
 It should also be noted that vehicles are now moving through the area at reduced speeds as the recent changes have brought in a natural traffic calming effect as a by-product of the scheme.

2.      The kerb, which has an upstand and raised line, would in the first instance deflect and errant drivers back onto the carriageway and in the second instance alert them that they have strayed from their path via the ‘rumble’ effect the raised line would provide. It should also be noted that this scenario could occur on any pavement. Some footways in the borough have a lesser upstand than the new cycle track due to years of carriageway resurfacing.
...


1.  The workmen I spoke to said that the reason for narrowing the carriageway was to introduce a traffic calming effect, so this response is simply claiming that the intention has been met.

HOWEVER.... I usually ride this route in the evening rush hour, when it's not congested.  The traffic usually flows at around 28mph (just fast enough for me to not overtake if I'm on the motorbike).   I am seeing the traffic flowing AT THE SAME SPEED now, other than when there's a cyclist holding up the queue.  In other words I am not seeing any change in peak rush hour flow; but I am seeing increased congestion at many other times.

Since there are NOT any traffic monitoring devices down there at the moment where are they getting the facts from to claim that the traffic is slower???



2. The issue with the kerb is that if a cyclist leaves the path and enters the road, they cannot get back onto the path.    This dangerous point seems to have been overlooked in the responses.

"The rumble effect of the line" does this mean that instead of a smooth painted line they're going to use motorway hard shoulder style rumble markings, INCREASING the risk to cyclists?

simonp

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #216 on: 13 April, 2010, 12:13:31 am »
"The rumble effect of the line" does this mean that instead of a smooth painted line they're going to use motorway hard shoulder style rumble markings, INCREASING the risk to cyclists?

Yes.  Of course.  That's exactly what they'll do.

You see, these people are morons.  Any sense of incredulity should have gone by now.

They've put tactile paving down outside the Science Park here where the Misguided Bus passes, and you have to cross the busway.  You have to make a sharp turn across the tactile paving to make the crossing, and also to turn from the path into the Science Park.  So when it's icy/wet how much grip were there be on these tramline type things, then?

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #217 on: 13 April, 2010, 12:51:37 am »
We've got the tramline corduroy paving slabs used as the ramp up and down either side of the speed bumps that make the raised zebra crossing  ::-)

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #218 on: 13 April, 2010, 05:13:26 pm »
The ped. crossing near shorefield road, have you seen where the beliesha beacon is  >:(

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #219 on: 13 April, 2010, 05:20:07 pm »
The ped. crossing near shorefield road, have you seen where the beliesha beacon is  >:(
I walked past there yesterday morning. They where still digging up the asphalt to put in the tactile slabs. I think the beacon is in the middle of the new path.  :facepalm:

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #220 on: 13 April, 2010, 05:22:50 pm »
Do I need to take a camera there in the morning?

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #221 on: 13 April, 2010, 05:25:03 pm »
Just got shouted at, 'Get in the cycle lane!' Opposite the casino, by a driving instructor with a pupil!

Video to follow...

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #222 on: 13 April, 2010, 05:25:57 pm »
Do I need to take a camera there in the morning?

You might, it all depends how p*ssed off you want to be  :hand:

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #223 on: 13 April, 2010, 05:27:43 pm »
Do I need to take a camera there in the morning?
Don't go on what I said, it is just a guess, Domestique knows.

They are moving the crossing and not adding a second there aren't they? The original one, just west of the junction, would have been a help to those turning right onto Shorefield. People stop the road and allow the waiting vehicles to do the turn.
You might, it all depends how p*ssed off you want to be  :hand:
If it's that bad I might pop down there this evening with my camera. What have they done?

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #224 on: 13 April, 2010, 05:29:14 pm »
Just got shouted at, 'Get in the cycle lane!' Opposite the casino, by a driving instructor with a pupil!
Perhaps the instructor needs educating on use of and non use of cycle lanes! Was it a well advertised school?