Author Topic: A bit OT - non-GPS navigation  (Read 3552 times)

Pingu

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A bit OT - non-GPS navigation
« on: 21 June, 2016, 10:00:05 pm »

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: A bit OT - non-GPS navigation
« Reply #1 on: 21 June, 2016, 10:11:19 pm »
What does it mean? Presumably the figures on the right are distances from turn to turn but what about the ones on the left: route numbers?  ???
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Pingu

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Re: A bit OT - non-GPS navigation
« Reply #2 on: 21 June, 2016, 10:16:06 pm »
The numbers on the left are nodes. There's a network of them in Belgium and the Netherlands. There are signs by the road at the nodes which give the node's number and point out the directions to nearby nodes.

See http://www.fietsroute.org/cycle-node-planner

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: A bit OT - non-GPS navigation
« Reply #3 on: 21 June, 2016, 10:38:43 pm »
Well that's something I would never have guessed!
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: A bit OT - non-GPS navigation
« Reply #4 on: 21 June, 2016, 11:00:35 pm »
It is a really superb and effective system.   The Dutch ones have 'mushroom' like posts at the node junctions with distances to numbered nodes on the various faces.   

Some people still preferred antequated bits of paper with squiggles and silly random colours all over them ...  ???    :D

robgul

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Re: A bit OT - non-GPS navigation
« Reply #5 on: 22 June, 2016, 07:30:41 am »
We've just returned from a Boys' Outing cycling in Belgium - as suggested the cycle route spider's web of signed routes is fantastic with all the numbers etc.  We used it for the Peace Route around Ypres/Iepr.

Rob

Re: A bit OT - non-GPS navigation
« Reply #6 on: 22 June, 2016, 09:42:48 am »
Night’awk. Night’awk. Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once.

Oaky

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Re: A bit OT - non-GPS navigation
« Reply #7 on: 22 June, 2016, 09:45:55 am »
It is a really superb and effective system.   The Dutch ones have 'mushroom' like posts at the node junctions with distances to numbered nodes on the various faces.   

Some people still preferred antequated bits of paper with squiggles and silly random colours all over them ...  ???    :D

Having tried to navigate solely by the node numbers on a few rides in the countryside around Amsterdam, it works really well until you can't find one of the numbers along your route.  It's not too bad if you have a map with you showing the other node numbers, but if, like me, you only had a list of the nodes along your intended route  :-[, you're reduced to circling random nodes until you find one with a map board  :facepalm:
You are in a maze of twisty flat droves, all alike.

85.4 miles from Marsh Gibbon

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Re: A bit OT - non-GPS navigation
« Reply #8 on: 22 June, 2016, 09:57:29 am »
I did wonder what would happen if you missed a node.
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Jaded

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Re: A bit OT - non-GPS navigation
« Reply #9 on: 22 June, 2016, 09:57:39 am »
A Cycling Turing Machine  ;D
It is simpler than it looks.

Oaky

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Re: A bit OT - non-GPS navigation
« Reply #10 on: 22 June, 2016, 10:22:01 am »
A Cycling Turing Machine  ;D

A nearby bar resolved the Halting Problem for me.
You are in a maze of twisty flat droves, all alike.

85.4 miles from Marsh Gibbon

Audax Club Mid-Essex Fire Safety Officer
http://acme.bike

T42

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Re: A bit OT - non-GPS navigation
« Reply #11 on: 22 June, 2016, 01:02:09 pm »
Id's sibbly a matter of followig your node.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Kim

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Re: A bit OT - non-GPS navigation
« Reply #12 on: 22 June, 2016, 01:42:30 pm »
Having tried to navigate solely by the node numbers on a few rides in the countryside around Amsterdam, it works really well until you can't find one of the numbers along your route.  It's not too bad if you have a map with you showing the other node numbers, but if, like me, you only had a list of the nodes along your intended route  :-[, you're reduced to circling random nodes until you find one with a map board  :facepalm:

Fortunately, us Plucky Brits are well trained in this technique, thanks to the NCN...

Re: A bit OT - non-GPS navigation
« Reply #13 on: 22 June, 2016, 02:45:38 pm »
I thought we invented the 'fingerpost'.

"Legislation was enacted in England in 1697 which enabled magistrates to place direction posts at cross-highways. However, the oldest fingerpost still extant is thought to be that close to Chipping Campden in Gloucestershire, dated 1669 and pointing to Oxford, Warwick, Gloucester and Worcester (abbreviated to 'Gloster' and 'Woster')"


Re: A bit OT - non-GPS navigation
« Reply #14 on: 05 July, 2016, 01:42:46 pm »
Thanks for that. I thought that this system only operated in Holland but glad to see its in Belgium as I'm going there later this year.

Technically, it's not Belgium, just Flanders. So if anyone knows of a similar system in Wallonia, I'd be interested to know.
I am often asked, what does YOAV stand for? It stands for Yoav On A Velo

Pingu

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Re: A bit OT - non-GPS navigation
« Reply #15 on: 05 July, 2016, 03:21:04 pm »
If you look at the map in the link above you'll see that there are small sections in Wallonia. Only very small sections, mind.

Re: A bit OT - non-GPS navigation
« Reply #16 on: 05 July, 2016, 07:04:07 pm »
Belgium?

That'll be the 'Desolation of Y Ddraig Goch'.

Re: A bit OT - non-GPS navigation
« Reply #17 on: 07 July, 2016, 09:00:43 pm »
If you look at the map in the link above you'll see that there are small sections in Wallonia. Only very small sections, mind.

I did and you're right, it peters out fairly quickly once in Wallonia. What I've discovered in my research of our forthcoming holiday in Belgium is that it really is two separate countries, not only with different languages but different organisations and institutions.
I am often asked, what does YOAV stand for? It stands for Yoav On A Velo

mattc

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Re: A bit OT - non-GPS navigation
« Reply #18 on: 31 July, 2016, 05:42:43 pm »
Now, bear in mind that I have limited Belgian cycling experience, but it did involve a bit of node-chasing:

In 2013 I rode from Herentals (Flanders) back to Dunquerque and followed a short section of fietsroute - I suspect it was just East of Ghent? Anyway, it wasnt very succesful. I met a local at the hostel nr Ghent and rode to Diksmuide with him - he confessed that Belgian cycle-routes were way behind the Dutch setup.

Are they improving? are some areas better?

Everything else about the Flemish cycling experience was superb - I am thus lined up to ride 1000km round the borders on Sep 1st :)

(the other drawback is that thre is nowhere to pee - the areas between towns didnt seem terribly densely populated, but every foot of roadside seemed to be inhabited)

Having tried to navigate solely by the node numbers on a few rides in the countryside around Amsterdam, it works really well until you can't find one of the numbers along your route.  It's not too bad if you have a map with you showing the other node numbers, but if, like me, you only had a list of the nodes along your intended route  :-[, you're reduced to circling random nodes until you find one with a map board  :facepalm:

Fortunately, us Plucky Brits are well trained in this technique, thanks to the NCN...

 ;D
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Pingu

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Re: A bit OT - non-GPS navigation
« Reply #19 on: 03 August, 2016, 10:02:35 am »
Are they improving? are some areas better?

I don't know if they are improving, but they worked well in West Flanders this year. I decided on places to go, plotted a course on the fietsroute map (allowing it to choose the nodes), downloaded a GPX file, uploaded it to the GPS and followed the track. There wasn't a huge mount of comedy off-roading  ;)

Re: A bit OT - non-GPS navigation
« Reply #20 on: 03 August, 2016, 10:30:26 am »
It is a really superb and effective system.   The Dutch ones have 'mushroom' like posts at the node junctions with distances to numbered nodes on the various faces.   

Some people still preferred antequated bits of paper with squiggles and silly random colours all over them ...  ???    :D

Having tried to navigate solely by the node numbers on a few rides in the countryside around Amsterdam, it works really well until you can't find one of the numbers along your route.  It's not too bad if you have a map with you showing the other node numbers, but if, like me, you only had a list of the nodes along your intended route  :-[, you're reduced to circling random nodes until you find one with a map board  :facepalm:
This reminds me of a truly disastrous long distance bushwalk I started in western australia, with my then new (and now ex) wife. We were very young, I was experienced in bushwalking. I was very worried about the lack of maps. She was enthused by the description - walk along the trail to the next yellow dot on a tree. How hard could it be?
Since the trail was lined with trees every 2ft, I expected finding the yellow dots every 10 miles or so (or 30 miles in some cases) could be difficult. What I didn't know was that some locals thought it amusing to remove the dots.

On the second morning we'd walked some hours along an easy to follow dirt track. Which had taken a right hand turn. We should have been going straight on. No yellow dot. 2 hours of searching. No trail to the left (straightish on). No yellow dot. No fresh water for 20 miles apart from on the (absent) yellow-dotted trail, unless we backtracked and jinked 7miles to what passed for a main road and tried hitchhiking.

I was getting very, very uneasy by this point and extremely reluctant to carry on with the whole idea. I knew the risks of getting lost, we didn't have decent maps, and at the very start the damn dots were missing. Massive row ensued, we backtracked, I ended up carrying both rucksacks the 7 miles and very nearly divorced about 3 weeks into the marriage.

It turned out to have been a good call. Local Forestry department confirmed that the dots were missing all over the trail and it was almost impossible to follow - unmarked, not walked, no footfall. I'm told it's easy to follow now and people use GPS just in case anyway. wimps.
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