Author Topic: Navigating tolerance? - Garmin Edge  (Read 2973 times)

robgul

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Navigating tolerance? - Garmin Edge
« on: 31 July, 2016, 03:37:44 pm »
I seem to be getting "Navigating error" messages ....

I plot a route on the 1-50,000 OS Memory Map - pretty close to the road with bends etc - then turn that into a Track in Memory Map and save as a .gpx and load to the Garmin (or load direct from Memory Map's track)

.... all works fine BUT where the route is more than a small distance from the actual road I get the error (e.g. when the road is a bit twisty and I have a straight line running along the mean direction)

Not mission critical but mildly annoying .. and I'm curious.   A quick screen tap on the message and navigation continues.

Ideas/reasons?  I assume there is some sort of tolerance (I have the Garmin set to "Lock on road")

Rob

Re: Navigating tolerance? - Garmin Edge
« Reply #1 on: 31 July, 2016, 04:23:26 pm »
The only time I experienced 'Navigating error' was when the device decided the place it thought it was, was too distant from a road to associate its position with a road.

fuaran

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Re: Navigating tolerance? - Garmin Edge
« Reply #2 on: 31 July, 2016, 04:32:25 pm »
OS 1:50k maps look quite nice, but they are not really all that accurate. The lines for roads can be a couple of mm thick, so for the scale that could be up to 50m wide. And the positions of roads etc are often simplified or shifted, to make the map look nicer.
So it depends on exactly where you click, your waypoints could be 100m away from where the road actually is.

For plotting routes for a Garmin, I think it makes more sense to use something based on vector maps. So your points can automatically snap to the centre of the road etc.

robgul

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Re: Navigating tolerance? - Garmin Edge
« Reply #3 on: 31 July, 2016, 05:17:27 pm »
The only time I experienced 'Navigating error' was when the device decided the place it thought it was, was too distant from a road to associate its position with a road.

That's exactly the point - how far does the plotted route have to be from the road before the Garmin throws the error message?

With a bit of lateral thinking I've changed the Garmin from "Lock on road" to not do so and will test it with the same route one day this coming week - that may be more tolerant??

Rob

Feanor

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Re: Navigating tolerance? - Garmin Edge
« Reply #4 on: 31 July, 2016, 07:30:15 pm »
Avoid the issue by using the same maps to plan the route as you will be using on the device when you ride it.

That usually means using mapsource / basecamp at some point in the process.

robgul

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Re: Navigating tolerance? - Garmin Edge
« Reply #5 on: 31 July, 2016, 08:13:03 pm »
Avoid the issue by using the same maps to plan the route as you will be using on the device when you ride it.

That usually means using mapsource / basecamp at some point in the process.

You're missing the point here - I want to use the OS on Memory Map to plot my routes as, in my view, it's the best mapping in the whole world! 

From bitter experience many of the other mapping systems have roads that don't exist and others that do exist not appearing .... Mr Google has a classic near here where a RIVER is clearly displayed as a ROAD!

As I said in the OP the issue isn't mission critical, just a bit annoying - but I'd like to know the answer as to why.

Rob

Feanor

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Re: Navigating tolerance? - Garmin Edge
« Reply #6 on: 31 July, 2016, 08:36:43 pm »
Avoid the issue by using the same maps to plan the route as you will be using on the device when you ride it.

That usually means using mapsource / basecamp at some point in the process.

You're missing the point here - I want to use the OS on Memory Map to plot my routes as, in my view, it's the best mapping in the whole world! 

From bitter experience many of the other mapping systems have roads that don't exist and others that do exist not appearing .... Mr Google has a classic near here where a RIVER is clearly displayed as a ROAD!

As I said in the OP the issue isn't mission critical, just a bit annoying - but I'd like to know the answer as to why.

Rob

The answer as to Why is simply that the maps are different.

You plan a route on one map, and you get a bunch of points which you ask the device to navigate between.
On the device, it then depends whether you are following a Track ( simply a highlighted trace overlaid on the map );
or a Route ( active on-road navigation with turn-by-turn directions ).

If you are following a Track, then it really doesn't matter if the planned track doesn't exactly follow the road, you can see what it means.

Following a Route is a different matter.
If the list of routepoints does not fall on the roads of the routable map in the device, it will not work properly.
Or if some of the roads that you used in planning the route do not exist on the device's maps.

If you want to use Routes, then I'd advise you to follow this workflow:

- Plan your route on the website of your choice.
- Export is as a GPX Track.
- Bring this into Mapsource / Basecamp which has the same maps as your GPS device.
- Create Routes in Mapsource / Basecamp which follow the Track, but using the Garmin mapping you will be using.
- Constrain the Routes as required to follow the planned Track.

Send both the Track and Routes to the device.
Set the Track to Always Display.
Navigate the Route.

robgul

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Re: Navigating tolerance? - Garmin Edge
« Reply #7 on: 31 July, 2016, 08:46:01 pm »
OK - let's start again ...

I am riding my bike with the OS map on the Garmin - I have a course (using Garmin's terminology on the list of "Saved" rides - this could be a plot that I made, or a .gpx supplied from someone else made in any mapping system you like)  which I have asked the Garmin to navigate.

The little arrow shows me where I am (always very close to the road marking on the OS Garmin map) - how far away does the "Course" that I have loaded have to be from the road before it gives me a "Navigating error"  - or put it another way : the Garmin is expecting me to be on the "Course" line .... how far off that before the error message?

Rob

Re: Navigating tolerance? - Garmin Edge
« Reply #8 on: 31 July, 2016, 09:00:47 pm »
You could use Bikehike, which allows you to plot on Google or OSM, but simultaneously see the route on OS.

However, based on my use of an Etrex20, switching off 'lock-to-road' might solve your problem.

Feanor

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Re: Navigating tolerance? - Garmin Edge
« Reply #9 on: 31 July, 2016, 09:04:00 pm »
On my edge 800 and 810 I need to be around 20 or 30 metres off course before I get off course warnings.

HTFB

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Re: Navigating tolerance? - Garmin Edge
« Reply #10 on: 31 July, 2016, 09:52:15 pm »
Australia gets this sort of problem all the time, and to solve it they're going to move the national grid yearly. Your GPS will be happy but you have to spend New Year's Day rubbing out all the old blue lines from your paper maps and drawing new ones. That BBC article should be in the running for an award for excellence in helpful scale guides.
Not especially helpful or mature

frankly frankie

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Re: Navigating tolerance? - Garmin Edge
« Reply #11 on: 31 July, 2016, 11:01:25 pm »
With a bit of lateral thinking I've changed the Garmin from "Lock on road" to not do so and will test it with the same route one day this coming week - that may be more tolerant??

Yes, I've never used 'lock on road'.  AIUI, it's not actually related to routing at all - it simply affects the way the Garmin displays your position on the screen, by always placing you on the nearest road (according to the map you have loaded).  With it switched off, you might appear to be 20m away in a nearby field for example - due to (a) GPS positioning being a bit hit-and-miss, and (b) the map you have loaded may be inaccurate.  The setting is pretty harmless either way, I think.
Since, actually, you do know you're on the road (you've got eyes, and the bike isn't bumping over tussocks of grass) you really don't need this reassurance from the GPS.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: Navigating tolerance? - Garmin Edge
« Reply #12 on: 01 August, 2016, 08:06:18 am »
Write a route which cuts down Wetherby Way and Lingfield Cres. Activate it and walk off down the Greenway. At some point, the device might decide it's too far from a road to calculate a route to the next Waypoint.

robgul

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Re: Navigating tolerance? - Garmin Edge
« Reply #13 on: 01 August, 2016, 08:27:01 am »
Write a route which cuts down Wetherby Way and Lingfield Cres. Activate it and walk off down the Greenway. At some point, the device might decide it's too far from a road to calculate a route to the next Waypoint.

Hmm, that's a bit "Big Brother is watching you" . . . . 

Rob

frankly frankie

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Re: Navigating tolerance? - Garmin Edge
« Reply #14 on: 01 August, 2016, 09:05:12 am »
Well if you were asking the device to do some routing, then it does this by using map points - and however big a prairie you wander into, there's always going to be a nearest map point to your position, which would be its next navigable point.

However as I understand the OP, what we have here is pretty much the opposite situation - we are following a pre-programmed Track by riding along (actual) roads, but the Track doesn't always follow the shape of the (mapped) roads very closely.  All that's needed is to suppress the warnings.
Hm, just glancing at an old Vista I have lying on my desk, there is a setting under 'Marine' for 'Off Course Alarm' where a distance threshold can be set.  Or it can be switched off entirely. I don't expect an Edge has marine settings though.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Feanor

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Re: Navigating tolerance? - Garmin Edge
« Reply #15 on: 01 August, 2016, 09:18:16 am »
Hm, just glancing at an old Vista I have lying on my desk, there is a setting under 'Marine' for 'Off Course Alarm' where a distance threshold can be set.  Or it can be switched off entirely. I don't expect an Edge has marine settings though.

On the Edge 800 you can suppress off-course warnings in the Course Properties page ( the same page where you can enable 'Always display on map' and set the colour ).
I don't have mine in front of me right now, so I can't remember the exact sequence of taps to get there.

Re: Navigating tolerance? - Garmin Edge
« Reply #16 on: 01 August, 2016, 01:58:43 pm »
I am riding my bike with the OS map on the Garmin
The OS maps are just pictures, and you can't navigate them, full stop.
The Garmin will have another set of vector maps to provide the navigation functions. These may be just hidden, or even not displayable at all.

robgul

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Re: Navigating tolerance? - Garmin Edge
« Reply #17 on: 01 August, 2016, 03:29:03 pm »
I am riding my bike with the OS map on the Garmin
The OS maps are just pictures, and you can't navigate them, full stop.
The Garmin will have another set of vector maps to provide the navigation functions. These may be just hidden, or even not displayable at all.

I don't think you are understanding the situation .... the Garmin is merely displaying its navigation arrow on the OS map (the version supplied by Garmin as a plug-in chip alternative to the Garmin out-of-the-box map) - the "navigation" is provided by the .gpx that drives the Garmin.

UPDATE : Having been out on 2 rides today I did some testing (using parts of the ride I did that prompted the OP) - switching off the "lock to road" seems to make the "off course error" more tolerant - I shall continue to experiment.

Rob