Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => PBP => Topic started by: rob on 21 June, 2018, 03:03:32 pm
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It's a year away so might as well start the debate early.
Last time I chanced across a strategy that went well. I targeted a 72hr ride but set off with the touristes so, if it went a bit pear shaped, I had some padding. I ended up between the fastest groups and the slower riders by bouncing early controls meaning I had a bed at Carhaix on the way out and Fougeres on the way back. I had to push fairly hard back from Dreux but made it in 71:56. It was quite social as I chatted to loads of people but didn't have the time to take any decent day-time breaks.
I'm a bit fitter than I was last time round so have come up with 3 potential approaches :-
1 - Go with the vedettes and see what I can really do.
2 - Go for a full value ride, stop and talk to people, drink plenty of coffees.
3 - Do what I did last time and use any speed improvement to sleep a bit more.
Discuss.
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The 84hr starters seem to be less excitable and form sensible pelotons from the off. Both 90 and 80hrs tend to be road-races at the start, the difference being that in the 80hr it stays like that.
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Indeed the 80hour group is one long road race, 80hour for me! No need to discuss :hand:
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Indeed the 80hour group is one long road race, 80hour for me! No need to discuss :hand:
You youngsters!
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Indeed the 80hour group is one long road race, 80hour for me! No need to discuss :hand:
You youngsters!
I love the way you still call us young. We are both in our 40s with families now.
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I love the way you still call us young. We are both in our 40s with families now.
Lightly rusted irony.
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Went with the vedettes last time - leaving them to their road race at the 300km mark yet still finished in front of many at 68 hours.
This time I'm hoping to go as a vélos spéciaux riding a Raleigh Twenty / towards the front end of the 90 hour group as last time I missed most things in chasing the time limit.
(https://www.cyclechat.net/attachments/dscf5552-jpg.409527)
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Dc , i am loving that bike :thumbsup:
Rob we may now be in our 40s , but unlike lan we dont have to sneak out of the carehome to go cycling :demon:
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First time in 2015 and can recommend the 84 hour group.
I) Little to no queueing for food or to get stamped.
II) only time I had to queue was for about 15 minutes at Loudeac Brest bound.
II) If you are quickish then you can treat the ride as three long day rides with the the left over hours on the fourth day as time in hand.
Next year I might give it some juice and get around quicker and see what's what. Although I still would go with the 84hr group. Does not appeal starting the afternoon and some of the queues at the controls :o for the 90 hr group. And as I'm riding a recumbent 80hr is off limits.
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Dc , i am loving that bike :thumbsup:
Rob we may now be in our 40s , but unlike lan we dont have to sneak out of the carehome to go cycling :demon:
That's you off my Christmas list (again).
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90 hour special start for me, if I make it.
Any average to decent paced recumbmentalist and other special people needn’t worry too much about queues in the 90 hour start. You end up in a nice hole between the vedettes and the normal (for PBP) folk behind you. It’ll only be the fast ones that overtake.
I’m at the slow end of average (87.5 hours) and in 2015 only queued for food briefly at Carhaix, after I woke up, and Mortagne. My only delay was waiting for someone to figure out how to use the till at Loudeac.
Carhaix beds were only a third full and on the return there were only 3 people asleep at Quedillac, so I stopped there instead of pushing on to Tinteniac and woke up to a full dorm and car-free roads.
FWIW when I did it on my road bike in 2011, I quite enjoyed being in the bulge and the busy controls. Two very different experiences, both good.
As for the 84 hour. I could probably cut enough faff to be quick enough but starting a ride in the early hours is not for me. I don’t sleep well before these rides, so I may as well be pedaling.
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Heather interviewed Dave Atkinson on the finish line in 2015. he did 67 hours, and he's ridden the Pendle 600.
http://shprung.com/pbp/?mode=info&frame=Z083
Interview.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTZ2RsPuOPg
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The compromise would be to go with the 84 hour group.
You can still do a fast ride off this, last time I finished with a rider from this group who did a 62h ride. You don't catch up with the 90h riders until they are nicely strung out, so you don't get caught up in the bulge and have the enormous queues. On the other hand, you get to meet up with everyone if you want to. So you can really make your mind up on the road as to what you want to do. And 84h is certainly going to give you enough padding for emergencies.
I've ridden all three start times now and definitely prefer the 84h one. Though you need to spend the previous night close to the start: you really don't want to get up any earlier than necessary.
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84h again for me, just so I don’t started tired😁
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The 84hr starters seem to be less excitable and form sensible pelotons from the off. Both 90 and 80hrs tend to be road-races at the start, the difference being that in the 80hr it stays like that.
With the current pre-qualification system the first groups of the 90-hours start mainly consist of very experienced riders who immediately forma sensible peloton. The later groups of the 90-hrs start will indeed have more newbies so with faster starts.
I'll opt for another 90-hours start as I'm a full value rider anyway.
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84h again for me, just so I don’t started tired😁
A 5am start would see me starting tired. Just shows different strokes for different folks.
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84h again for me, just so I don’t started tired😁
A 5am start would see me starting tired. Just shows different strokes for different folks.
Same for me here.
Everyone has an ideal sleeping bracket. For me that's between 4 and 6 am. So I plan accordingly, sleeping each night rather late. Which is interesting for PBP as most people tend to prefer an early night of sleep so by the time I arrive at a control for sleeping there's usually space again while those who prefer to sleep between 1 and 3am have to battle for the cots.
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80h time again, with the aim to finish in two days
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It'll probably be my second 90hr special bike (for special riders) start, as I'll most likely be on a tandem bike again. We'll be aiming to roll at a reasonable pace (except on the steeper bits) and stop long and sleep fairly well.
It might be fun to do the 80hr start in 2023 though.
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IF I ride again (big if), I'll go for one of the earlier 90hr starts, catnap at Villaines and then ride through to Brest for a longer sleep. Worked well enough last time and I had the pleasure of cresting the Roc just as dawn was breaking.
The return leg I'll play by ear but will try to be back in Carhaix in time to eat in the town rather than risk the control running out of food again, sleep at Fougeres and catnap at Mortagne and Dreux.
IF...
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With the current pre-qualification system the first groups of the 90-hours start mainly consist of very experienced riders who immediately forma sensible peloton.
So the time when you register (based on re-qualification) actually determines your start time (roughly) when riding the 90h? That changes things for me, the main reason for preferring the 84h is that riding in the middle or rear of the bulge is something I'd very much like to avoid.
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No, it's just that it's first come first served. So more 'desirable' slots will go first.
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I suspect that I'll go with my 3rd option. A brisk ride but with breaks. Provided I get round the 1000 this weekend I should be able to bag a spot in the front Touriste group.
I have the feeling that I've been beating myself up so much the last few years that I've forgotten to look around me every now and again.
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Went with the vedettes last time - leaving them to their road race at the 300km mark yet still finished in front of many at 68 hours.
This time I'm hoping to go as a vélos spéciaux riding a Raleigh Twenty / towards the front end of the 90 hour group as last time I missed most things in chasing the time limit.
(https://www.cyclechat.net/attachments/dscf5552-jpg.409527)
Fantastic. Basket on the back or a rack bag? Flowers optional.
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No, it's just that it's first come first served. So more 'desirable' slots will go first.
Indeed, in 2015 the first 4 slots of the 90 hour start were the desirable slots being filled with riders who did a 1000 or a 1200 in 2014.
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Went with the vedettes last time - leaving them to their road race at the 300km mark yet still finished in front of many at 68 hours.
This time I'm hoping to go as a vélos spéciaux riding a Raleigh Twenty / towards the front end of the 90 hour group as last time I missed most things in chasing the time limit.
(https://www.cyclechat.net/attachments/dscf5552-jpg.409527)
Fantastic. Basket on the back or a rack bag? Flowers optional.
Bag on the back, basket on the front with flowers was my thought.
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(https://www.cyclechat.net/attachments/dscf5552-jpg.409527)
I'm sure I saw Mr McNasty on one of those converted to recumbent. Unless it was a Daylight nightmare.
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Heather interviewed Dave Atkinson on the finish line in 2015. he did 67 hours, and he's ridden the Pendle 600.
http://shprung.com/pbp/?mode=info&frame=Z083
Interview.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTZ2RsPuOPg
Dave and I rode together for more-or-less the whole way. He did find the state of some riders a bit of an eye-opener, but I keep pointing out to him that he didn't see the real strugglers, as we finished with relatively strong 90-hour riders who'd have a finishing time of 75-80 hours or so, and we finished at 1 am, and never really experienced the last night on the road.
He's still torn between getting a good 90-hour start, or kicking off with the vedettes. Me too, to be honest.
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The right group will depend on your speed. I got it right for me last time, by starting at the back of the vedettes (group E). I was ahead of the bulge all the way, so the staff were relatively fresh at the controls, I was riding with people who were generally alert and good at riding in groups, and I didn't feel rushed. I made a mistake of starting in one of the front groups of the vedettes in 2011 and found that too twitchy and tetchy.
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Ladies and gents hope that this is the right place to ask this question. Bear with me. So for the last five or six months I’ve had it in my head that my big target for next year is PBP. I’m properly excited about it. Other than a 200 next month I’ve ridden an SR series and been bitten by the Audax bug. I’ve got in mind the qualifiers I want to do next year and everything perfect. Then today happened. I started looking at the dates of the PBP and realised that the Thursday 22nd August next year is GCSE results day and my son will be getting his results that day. I need to be there for them so that means to take part I would have to go off in the 80 hour group with a finish time at midnight on the Wednesday to stand any chance of getting back to London by Thursday morning. Assuming I can do it what are the chances of then getting a train back home to London by Thursday morning? If I’m being really stupidly over optimistic then please let me know and I’ll go off and weep gently in the corner.
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Last time I went with the 90hr group and finished in 72hrs at 6pm on the Wednesday.
Depends how fast you are and you haven’t given us any info on that. If you minimise faff time at the controls there’s a good chance you could be on a Eurostar first thing Thursday morning or even late Wednesday night.
I remember riding with a guy several editions ago who rang home at one of the controls to find out his kids results.
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Thanks for your reply Rob. Appreciate it’s a very open ended question. Well, I guess I’m (a bit) faster then average (but not as fast as you!) Rode 245m at this year’s National 12hr and did LWL in 18hrs. My 600 went a bit pear shaped owing to the heat so was quite a bit slower as I was having trouble digesting food (first and only time this has happened). I guess I’m thinking I could do it, but I’d be so worried about constantly clock watching that it would turn it from a hard, but enjoyable ride into a a stress fest. Don’t think phoning home for them is an option.
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So an a newbie at PBP, I'm also in a quandry about this.
The best calibration point I have would be the West Highlands 1000k which I did this year.
My overall elapsed time for 1000k was 66:53, so basically 67 hours.
My moving average was 25.7 kph.
I found that to be a good pace, not too fast, not to slow. The sleep stops were fairly short; we finished each day about dinner time and set off again in the wee small hours.
What should I be looking at for PBP based on that?
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For a train on thursday morning you simply have to book your Eurostar early. Formally they won't guarantee that your bike can travel with you on the Eurostar but when you have the luxury to collect your bike in the evening in London, then this wouldn't be an issue. Both startplaces which are discussed at the moment have a good railconnection to the main Parisian railwaystations. You'll need Paris Nord though.
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Thanks for your reply Rob. Appreciate it’s a very open ended question. Well, I guess I’m (a bit) faster then average (but not as fast as you!) Rode 245m at this year’s National 12hr and did LWL in 18hrs. My 600 went a bit pear shaped owing to the heat so was quite a bit slower as I was having trouble digesting food (first and only time this has happened). I guess I’m thinking I could do it, but I’d be so worried about constantly clock watching that it would turn it from a hard, but enjoyable ride into a a stress fest. Don’t think phoning home for them is an option.
Just before the last PBP I did 258 miles on that same 12hr course so you’re in about the right place with a year to build. You probably don’t ‘need’ to go off in the 80hr group although the faster group riding will likely get you to Brest more quickly. I passed a lot of vedettes on the way back last time.
The other think I’d say is that you can be pretty messed up at the finish with simple tasks taking a bit longer than usual. It may me quite hard work co-ordinating yourself to get to the station or airport unless you have some padding.
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Just realised Rob junior will be doing his GCSEs in 2023.......
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I did sub-70 hours at my first PBP and I was fit but not racing fit. Minimise time at controls, aim at 500/ 400/ 300 splits (or 600/ 400/ 200 from the 80hr start) and it should work. You can hold evens for half a day, so the speed itself isn't the problem, just holding concentration for three days. Concentrating isn't the same as a stress-fest. That said, I have deliberately chosen to take longer to finish in subsequent PBPs, just for enjoyment.
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There are lots of towns and villages on the route which make a great effort to support and enjoy the event. If you're not after a quick time, then it's worth taking a few minutes out now and again to celebrate with the locals...they will love you for it.
The control at Loudeac (445kms) is a riot. Easy to waste time but a shame not to soak up the atmosphere.
Similarly, there will be a 3 day party at the village of St. Martin des Pres approximately 480/730kms into the ride....great place to grab some frites if you bounce the food at Loudeac.
Sizun at about 575 and 655 kms has a chilled festive feel to it after descending or before climbing Roc Trevezel. Mamers at 1080 kms is another great pit stop during daylight (ish) hours.
Finally, if you finish between midnight and 6 a.m in the morning, there won't be too many people around to cheer you home....but after 10 a.m, well, it's an emotional experience.
On the 90 hour start, the more you can stick to a 'normal' sleep routine...albeit truncated, the better you'll feel in the latter stages.
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I wouldn't take any roadside facilities for granted. St Martin des Pres might well do something, but the bar/auberge wasn't open in 2015, as it had been previously. The neighbouring village, Merleac, had facilities up to 2011.
Gorron is another example of dwindling facilities. It used to have sleep and eating facilities, and a rousing welcome by the side of the road. There was also a branch of Lidl on the route, which was useful. There's now a big Super U, about 600 metres off route. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@48.4122552,-0.9294184,7827a,35y,84.86h,43.67t/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en
A slavish following of the route will tend to place reliance on controls. In reality, there are plenty of shops just off the route. However, they are typical of modern France, whereas the PBP experience is partly a nostalgia trip. The current state of the £ might force more Brits into Netto in Tinteniac. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@48.3280842,-1.8391137,3a,55.8y,131.23h,87.26t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sVt6c00yhytkXTSbBad6uMA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DVt6c00yhytkXTSbBad6uMA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D86.12449%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100?hl=en
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If Im there, I'll do what I did last time, and select one of the final 90 hr groups.
Passing other 90 hr riders was a great morale booster at the start and it allowed for a later final finish time on the last day rather than an early morning dash. Never found queues a big issue, either for food or beds (ok waited 10 mins at Loudeac on the way back for a kip).
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If Im there, I'll do what I did last time, and select one of the final 90 hr groups.
Passing other 90 hr riders was a great morale booster at the start and it allowed for a later final finish time on the last day rather than an early morning dash. Never found queues a big issue, either for food or beds (ok waited 10 mins at Loudeac on the way back for a kip).
I find I rather like starting at the back of the field - worked well on the last LEL, apart from food shortage issues at some controls. Catching riders is very good for morale isn't it? Heck, I've even caught Vedettes - ok they were mostly a bit wrecked/injured, in the closing stages! I'll be carrying a fair bit of food for the first 300km anyway, so won't be too fussed about eating in the controls.
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Do we know if start times will be the same as 2015? Or is that something that changes from year to year?
Currently leaning towards an early 90hr start but I quite like the sound of starting at the back of the 90hr bunch. Hmmm. Still a few months before I need to decide yet...
ETA: just spotted this on the AUK website which answers my question neatly...
Start times
from 16:00 Sunday 18 August 2019 for an 80 hour time limit
from 18:00 Sunday 18 August 2019 for an 90 hour time limit
from 05:00 Monday 19 August 2019 for an 84 hour time limit
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Everyone has an opinion on this, so here's mine:
On the Sunday, you spend the whole day hanging around near the start, waiting to go. If you're very lucky, you might be able to get a bit of sleep, but for most people nerves or excitement put paid to that. So, why waste time that you could be riding? I'd go for the earliest start possible, enjoy the enthusiasm of the spectators and food/drink distributors at the roadside, get to the first couple of controls while the food is still fresh - and the volunteers likewise - and enjoy watching the racing trains from later groups sail by.
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Everyone has an opinion on this, so here's mine:
On the Sunday, you spend the whole day hanging around near the start, waiting to go. If you're very lucky, you might be able to get a bit of sleep, but for most people nerves or excitement put paid to that. So, why waste time that you could be riding? I'd go for the earliest start possible, enjoy the enthusiasm of the spectators and food/drink distributors at the roadside, get to the first couple of controls while the food is still fresh - and the volunteers likewise - and enjoy watching the racing trains from later groups sail by.
That sounds like words of wisdom to me. Part of me likes the idea of the 84hr start but I know I won't sleep on Sunday night so I'd be better off being on the road and napping when/if necessary.
Feanor mentioned the WH1K earlier. I was a bit wary of the 8pm start on that ride but it actually worked very well, so I'm taking that experience as a useful indicator for how PBP is likely to pan out. I somehow managed the full 456km before the first sleep stop, even with the choppy bit down to Campbelltown, so doing similar on PBP should be a doddle by comparison - and the plan is to be fitter by next August than I was last June. If I can get away soon after 6pm, that will give me an extra couple of hours riding in daylight to get some miles under my belt.
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Have done the 90 and 84 hour starts, so definitely starting with the Vedettes next year to complete the set. My favourite plan at the moment is the last group, for the same reasons as CET states: I don't want to get involved in the full on race, just ride with a faster bunch for as long as I can be bothered.
I'd happily do the 90 hour start again, but will never again do the 84 hour start as I didn't sleep overnight anyway and the start was no different to a UK audax at 6am, none of the fanfare I realised I enjoyed about PBP.
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2 x 90, 2 x 84 and 1 x 90 VS for me. I'll probably go 90 VS again. The 84hr starts are a little boring in comparison to the 90. The 84 riding standard in groups is a bit better though.
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I've done two 90h starts and an 84h last time. I thought getting a bit of sleep on Sunday night before the Monday morning start might be a good idea. The start was decidedly underwhelming from the velodrome (I've had more enthusiastic starts on 200s!) and as a slower rider, there was little support when you passed through towns as as far as they were concerned, PBP went through the day before. Towards the end, we were still within the time limits but checkpoints were stripping down and some had no food left. Will definitely be back to the 90h this time.
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Sun and moon for the first night (for those starting on Sunday):
https://app.photoephemeris.com/?ll=48.521344,0.545183&dt=20190818010700%2B0200&z=13&spn=0.04,0.16¢er=48.5159,0.5479
Sunset: 2107, Moonrise (90%): 2243 (at Mortagne). Sunrise: 0703 (Fougères).
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80h time again, with the aim to finish in two days
I have committed to ride this and I am intending to get fit and see if I can (for one last time?) crack a big ride with some fast boys?
BB
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Going to try 80h again. With gears.
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Having read the advice here I think it makes sense to take a 90hr start.
But what about the start groups?
Are the first few fast serious riders, followed by a jittery mess and then relaxed groups?
I usually roll along in the low to mid 20kmh range and don't like jittery groups but at the same time don't like queuing when under time pressure much... (even if there's absolutely no pressure of time at all)
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But what about the [90 hour] start groups?
Are the first few fast serious riders, followed by a jittery mess and then relaxed groups?
I usually roll along in the low to mid 20kmh range and don't like jittery groups but at the same time don't like queuing when under time pressure much... (even if there's absolutely no pressure of time at all)
See posts #14 and #24 above. Each start group is 200+ riders. The first few 90 hour starts will, I surmise, be filled mostly with riders who've completed at least a 600 in 2018 and a good proportion will have completed a 1000+ this year. But will this self selecting set be "fast serious riders"? Again the answer is (I guess) some will and some won't.
Last time 1500 odd of completing (90-hour) riders finished with less than 4 hours to spare, and they all started as 'touristes' and most will have enjoyed the pleasures of the bulge (and "queuing when under time pressure much... even if there's absolutely no pressure of time at all") all the way round.
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Going to try 80h again. With gears.
No chance of dragging 'er indoors along for another go?
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But what about the [90 hour] start groups?
Are the first few fast serious riders, followed by a jittery mess and then relaxed groups?
I usually roll along in the low to mid 20kmh range and don't like jittery groups but at the same time don't like queuing when under time pressure much... (even if there's absolutely no pressure of time at all)
See posts #14 and #24 above. Each start group is 200+ riders. The first few 90 hour starts will, I surmise, be filled mostly with riders who've completed at least a 600 in 2018 and a good proportion will have completed a 1000+ this year. But will this self selecting set be "fast serious riders"? Again the answer is (I guess) some will and some won't.
Last time 1500 odd of completing riders finished with less than 4 hours to spare, and they all started as 'touristes' and most will have enjoyed the pleasures of the bulge (and "queuing when under time pressure much... even if there's absolutely no pressure of time at all") all the way round.
hm, yeah had read through the posts before but didn't take much from them to assist decision making; but looking back through I get the idea that starting later along with enjoying the bulge is inevitable.
Post #16 is actually of most interest to me as like Ivo, I've a preference for sleeping late (And waking late...)
and Bairn again and Tomsk almost recommending later groups for various reasons, hm.
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Afternoon start suits me well. Really don't think a 5am start would agree with me at all.
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Pre-registration, in particular the option to select a preferred start slot looms (only 'days' for the longer BRM 2018 randonneur).
I have extracted this advice from the 2015 brochure:
http://www.paris-brest-paris.org/en/download/BROCHURE-GB.pdf
Veteran:
After many participations, you know all the nuts and bolts of long-distance riding. You know yourself perfectly, you adapt to changing circumstances and finish your ride without excessive fatigue. Of course, you will not read these lines, because you already know what you will do this time!
Your start: You have already experienced all options. Maybe you choose the 84-hour start and set off at 5h00, to be more relaxed.
Your ride schedule (starting at 5h00):
If you feel fine, you will try to ride until Brest without sleeping, and sometimes even until Fougères on the return. On the way out, you will make only short stops, 10 to 30 minutes. Your first overnight stop will be after 36 hours riding. At that point, you will have caught up with those of the 90-hour field who have stopped overnight between Loudéac and Brest. You will probably reach the finish line in the late afternoon of the third day. Your total time will be between 55 and 67 hours. Or, if you’re not feeling good, you will sleep 3 to 6 hours during the first night and then ride behind the bulk of the 90-hour field, avoiding queues and crowds and still be able to finish within 75 to 84 hours.
Hedonist:
You are a strong rider. You have already ridden the Paris-Brest-Paris, maybe several times and sometimes very quickly. Today, you are still able to ride fast, but you will rely on your fitness and spend time talking with people on the road and at the checkpoints. You will make long overnight stops to fully enjoy the ride. You will avoid the crowds by staying ahead of most of the riders, then you will slow down and let them catch up with you. Eventually you will use all your allotted time to get to the finish.
Your start: In the first 90-hour waves, or in the last 80-hour waves.
Your ride schedule:
On the way out, you will make short stops (15 to 45 minutes) and a first overnight stop (5 to 7 hours) between Brest and Carhaix on the return. Then your stops will be a little longer (20 to 60 minutes) and you will have your second overnight stop between Fougères and Mortagne, in order to finish in the evening, in under 80 hours. Or if you have chosen the 90-hour option, you will have a little less sleep on the way out. You will have a third overnight stop between Villaines-la-Juhel and Dreux and finish next day around noon, at relaxed pace.
Contemplative:
You ride relatively slowly, but steadily. No doubt that you will choose the 90-hour option, to make the most of this beautiful randonnée. You want to enjoy the scenery, to talk with people and socialize. Paris-Brest-Paris is a long journey that will enrich you. You just need to ensure a safety margin to make sure you don’t run out of time but sometimes, you will forget this safety margin!
Your start:
You choose the 90-hour option and preferably start in the last waves, so you can watch the first waves taking off. This will also allow you to finish in the mid-afternoon on the last day. If you start at 20:00, you will perhaps be back at 14:00 on the last day.
Your ride schedule:
Depending on your average speed, you will spend from 15 to 45 minutes at the checkpoints and other rest places. You will try to have a first overnight stop between Tinténiac and Carhaix, and a second overnight stop between Carhaix and Tinténiac on the return. Your naps may have to be quite short, because you must make up for all the time spent off the bike. You will try to have a third overnight stop in Mortagne-au-Perche or Dreux, in order to enjoy the last stage to its fullest.
Athlete:
You enter PBP with the personal ambition to set a good time.
Although the Paris-Brest-Paris Randonneur is not a race (you may find difficult to accept that it is not !), you want to push your limits and achieve a ‘personal best’.
Alone or with some friend, you will join high-paced groups in order to progress faster, without being averse to long solo riding when necessary. You will spend very little time off the bike.
Your start: You choose the 80-Hour option and preferably start in the first waves. If you feel that you will not be able to follow the hectic pace of the first waves, you will strategically start the next day at 5h00 (84-hour option), so you will still be riding in strong groups and pass the checkpoints at off-peak times until Loudéac.
Your ride schedule:
You will have very short stops on the way out (5 to 15 minutes), just enough time to get your card stamped and grab some food that you will eat on the road. You will sleep as little as your strength will allow, and maybe you will not sleep at all. Most of your fellow riders will sleep from 30 minutes to 4 hours on their way back, between Brest and Fougères. On the return, your stops will be 10 to 30 minutes, with perhaps a second sleep stop between Villaines-la-Juhel and Mortagne-au-Perche. You must arrive no later than midnight if you started at 16:00.
Perseverant:
You know that you are a slow rider, perhaps too slow... but you also know that you can finish, come what may. Your friends and family will support you, they will follow your progress. You will achieve your personal challenge, even if it takes 89h59. You will experience hard times, but you will find the physical and mental strength to go further. If you ride at an average speed of 18 km/h (11.2 mph), you can stop 12 hours overall... which is not much indeed, and you will have to minimize the time off the bike in order to make up for your relatively slow speed. But you will finish!
Your start:
You choose the 90-hour option and preferably start in the last waves, in order to benefit from maximum daylight on the last day. Or, if you want to ride with groups sometimes, you might choose the first waves, but make sure to pace yourself.
Your ride schedule: Your average speed will determine the length of your stops. You will try to sleep in Loudéac or nearby.
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Pre-registration, in particular the option to select a preferred start slot looms (only 'days' for the longer BRM 2018 randonneur).
I have extracted this advice from the 2015 brochure:
http://www.paris-brest-paris.org/en/download/BROCHURE-GB.pdf
Perseverant:
You know that you are a slow rider, perhaps too slow... but you also know that you can finish, come what may. Your friends and family will support you, they will follow your progress. You will achieve your personal challenge, even if it takes 89h59. You will experience hard times, but you will find the physical and mental strength to go further. If you ride at an average speed of 18 km/h (11.2 mph), you can stop 12 hours overall... which is not much indeed, and you will have to minimize the time off the bike in order to make up for your relatively slow speed. But you will finish!
Your start:
You choose the 90-hour option and preferably start in the last waves, in order to benefit from maximum daylight on the last day. Or, if you want to ride with groups sometimes, you might choose the first waves, but make sure to pace yourself.
Your ride schedule: Your average speed will determine the length of your stops. You will try to sleep in Loudéac or nearby.
Not much to add. I slept all together 2,5h. 89h. PBP2015. Rode alone because I was too slow to stay in groups.
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90hrs Sunday 6.30pm :thumbsup:
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No, it's just that it's first come first served. So more 'desirable' slots will go first.
Indeed, in 2015 the first 4 slots of the 90 hour start were the desirable slots being filled with riders who did a 1000 or a 1200 in 2014.
The 6pm and 6.15 slots were already filled by 5am this morning. My entry number is 960.
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On at 6:30AM and also bagged a Sunday 1830 (Group K) slot. Gawd Bless Mr Corless and his MP1k :thumbsup:
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90h 18.30
Fuck, that was Hard Work. That has to be the most horrible website I've ever used!
It took 4 attempts to get My Account details to save. It kept blanking them out when I clicked Save!
This meant my profile was stuck at 10% complete and I couldnt proceed.
It changed languages between English and French pretty much randomly.
The payment page didnt populate the entry ID number, and it took some to-ing and fro-ing to get that to work.
But anyways, its done now and I have the confirmation emails.
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90 hrs, 1745 (special needs).
I’m hoping committing to the trike won’t be a massive mistake... :o
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90 hrs 18:30 for me.
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On at 6:30AM and also bagged a Sunday 1830 (Group K) slot. Gawd Bless Mr Corless and his MP1k :thumbsup:
<ponders> I wonder what %age of Brits in the first few waves rode the MP1K? Or did lots of them ride abroad instead?
(Can you see the nation mix of registered riders?)
I think JohnL and the other trikies should be prepared for some pretty speedy 90hr riders to woosh past early on!
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<ponders> I wonder what %age of Brits in the first few waves rode the MP1K?
That or the WH1K.
Not that I had PBP in mind when I entered the Scottish ride, though I do feel that getting my preferred start slot is just reward for putting up with all the damned midges.
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<ponders> I wonder what %age of Brits in the first few waves rode the MP1K?
That or the WH1K.
Not that I had PBP in mind when I entered the Scottish ride, though I do feel that getting my preferred start slot is just reward for putting up with all the damned midges.
... and I forgot there was a Mille Cymru too :facepalm:
Around 50 finishers on each of those 3. Plus 16 from the Completely Flat Essex-to-Wales ride. (Mostly British fields on all of them, at first glance.)
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<ponders> I wonder what %age of Brits in the first few waves rode the MP1K?
That or the WH1K.
Not that I had PBP in mind when I entered the Scottish ride, though I do feel that getting my preferred start slot is just reward for putting up with all the damned midges.
... and I forgot there was a Mille Cymru too :facepalm:
Around 50 finishers on each of those 3. Plus 16 from the Completely Flat Essex-to-Wales ride. (Mostly British fields on all of them, at first glance.)
Completely flat my arse. I hope that was usual mattc sarcasm. There's a reason there were only 16 finishers.
Pre-registering and getting an early group are my reward for getting round that one.
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;D
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90 hours 18:15 for me. Looking forward to some tandem surfing :)
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80 hours in the A group at 16:00 :thumbsup:
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80 hours in the A group at 16:00 :thumbsup:
I take it you'll be hunched forward rather than laid back then Rich?
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80 hours in the A group at 16:00 :thumbsup:
Same here!! :thumbsup:
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80 hours in the A group at 16:00 :thumbsup:
Same here!! :thumbsup:
Wave at me on the way back.
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80 hours in the A group at 16:00 :thumbsup:
Same here!! :thumbsup:
Another one for the 4pm vedettes start :thumbsup:
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80 hours in the A group at 16:00 :thumbsup:
I take it you'll be hunched forward rather than laid back then Rich?
yes indeed...I only use the laid-back bike for long rides ;)
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80 hours in the A group at 16:00 :thumbsup:
Yup - me too !
They do issue free body armour at the start for this group don't they ... ?
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80 hours in the A group at 16:00 :thumbsup:
Yup - me too !
They do issue free body armour at the start for this group don't they ... ?
"a" group is more relaxed than "b" and "c" which give it full beans until they catch the a's
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It was hectic in c. Particularly hard to keep up on fixed. I stayed with it for about 80km before being dropped, which was a blessing as I could bring my heart rate back down to sustainable levels and eventually find a well-paced group to ride with (not until after Mortagne).
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80 hours in the A group at 16:00 :thumbsup:
Yup - me too !
They do issue free body armour at the start for this group don't they ... ?
"a" group is more relaxed than "b" and "c" which give it full beans until they catch the a's
Interesting info ! I wouldn’t have expected that.
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80 hours in the A group at 16:00 :thumbsup:
Yup - me too !
They do issue free body armour at the start for this group don't they ... ?
"a" group is more relaxed than "b" and "c" which give it full beans until they catch the a's
Interesting info ! I wouldn’t have expected that.
that was only last time.
A number of fast French cyclo sportif riders had been caught asleep as they discovered in the spring of 2015 that they should have ridden pre-qualifiers. So they had to start in group c when their time to register came. I expect them to be better prepared this time.
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Well I'm registered and starting in the 'special needs' group at 17:45. Still plenty of space. :-)
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Group A for me too! Going to be a blast.
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Another 90 hour, 18.30 starter here: :thumbsup:
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Can't make my mind up on start times. Definitely want to start on the Sunday and quite like the idea of starting near the back. But I just don't fancy the idea of starting after 8pm. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Group C -16.30. Same as last time-by choice. It was "quite interesting " at some points -in particular when quite a large part of the following group caught us and over took us on the other side of the road. Without telling the car coming the other way , they were going to do that ............
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After a few calculations of daylight hours and estimated finishing time of day or night, I decided on the 84 hour Group Z starting at 0530 on the Monday morning. An 80 hour or early 90 hour start would probably mean finishing very early on the Wednesday morning for me, or it might take a few hours longer because of needing more sleep. With an 84 hour start I should be able to ride through the Monday night with little or no sleep and get to about 900km before I need a sleep on the Tuesday night. Even then I plan to keep that sleep short as there will only be about 300km to go and I would like to finish before Wednesday night. I've opted for Group Z rather than Group X so I can get up half an hour later and spend half an hour less cycling in the dark. It also means there will be another 600 riders ahead of me and I could possibly meet riders from all start groups as the ride progresses.
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Monday 0515 for me -)
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There should be a Random PBP Question thread but can you (and if you can, how easy is it to) change start times closer to the event?
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There should be a Random PBP Question thread but can you (and if you can, how easy is it to) change start times closer to the event?
Your start time is ‘locked’ after you pre-register. However, after qualifying you go back in and confirm your tides and complete your entry. At this point, last time at least, you could change your start time provided there is space in the group you want.
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There should be a Random PBP Question thread but can you (and if you can, how easy is it to) change start times closer to the event?
Your start time is ‘locked’ after you pre-register. However, after qualifying you go back in and confirm your tides and complete your entry. At this point, last time at least, you could change your start time provided there is space in the group you want.
Cool, thanks.
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Take note: In 2015 I pre-registered a 4pm 90 hour slot (I think) after doing 1000km in 2014. The advantage was lost months later when I forgot to complete the entry, and ended with an 8pm start. Finished in 80 hours. If I enter again, I'll still go for 90 hours, and be full value, to see more scenery, and spectators at the finish. I'll be a young 52 year old!
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Take note: In 2015 I pre-registered a 4pm 90 hour slot (I think) after doing 1000km in 2014. The advantage was lost months later when I forgot to complete the entry, and ended with an 8pm start. Finished in 80 hours. If I enter again, I'll still go for 90 hours, and be full value, to see more scenery, and spectators at the finish. I'll be a young 52 year old!
Put the date in your diary. They do tell you by which date you need to have converted your pre registration to a registration.
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Take note: In 2015 I pre-registered a 4pm 90 hour slot (I think) after doing 1000km in 2014. The advantage was lost months later when I forgot to complete the entry, and ended with an 8pm start. Finished in 80 hours. If I enter again, I'll still go for 90 hours, and be full value, to see more scenery, and spectators at the finish. I'll be a young 52 year old!
Put the date in your diary. They do tell you by which date you need to have converted your pre registration to a registration.
I know that. I'm just forgetful. The dates are by the computer too.
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I put unmissable dates into Google Calendar and set it to email me.
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18:45 for me :thumbsup:
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M - 19:00
That's considerably further ahead than I have started the last 2.
I really enjoyed the chase to pass the bulge in 2011.
I did not enjoy passing wobbly riders who were in the middle of the road whilst on fixed in 2015, especially going up hills where fixed is so much faster.
I think the bulge will be even bulgier this time around, so went with the earliest slot I could find - and nice that it's on the hour as it makes my maths easier when my head hurts later in the ride.
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Whereas I'm at the tail-end again on Monday morning. I'm unlikely to be on fixed this time.
(6th time at age 66 – should be a devil of a ride!)
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Group D 1645 80hr for me, for better or worse. Just want to start as early as possible and stay ahead of the bulge all the way.
Starting in the morning in 2011 meant I was tired enough by midnight to need a sleep on the way out, which I'm hoping to avoid this time and ride through the first night.
Remains to be seen what the standard of group riding is in the later 80hr groups though. Anyone with any experience?
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18:45 for me :thumbsup:
19:30 for me, 90 hours to close down a 45 minute gap!
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19:15 start, 90 hours for me.
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I don't really want to start a new thread so trying here... does anyone know if the start slots reopen during registration later in the year ?
i.e. if people fail to qualify / register do they let those that have move into these gaps ?
Even now it looks like I can shuffle my pre-registration to a different (available) slot at any point.
(reason for asking is that my usual partner in crime was able to register with the 1000km bunch and I've had to wait until now to do it, they did choose a cautious entry slot but on pre-registering today the nearest available is still 30mins later)
Not a massive deal either way I guess but one less thing to fret about is always good :P
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I’m not sure of the answer, but you will be locked in soon (about 24 hrs after??) so don’t mess around too much with start times!
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I’m not sure of the answer, but you will be locked in soon (about 24 hrs after??) so don’t mess around too much with start times!
Ah cheers... well I'm not moving any later ;D ... I was thinking that they might be able to log back in and move to the same slot.
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I’m not sure of the answer, but you will be locked in soon (about 24 hrs after??) so don’t mess around too much with start times!
Ah cheers... well I'm not moving any later ;D ... I was thinking that they might be able to log back in and move to the same slot.
Your partner in crime can always start 30 mins late with you, regardless that their official start time is 30 mins earlier. Don't do this if expecting to be full value and you will need every minute.
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As for reopening at registration. The answer is yes, the web page tells you this once your pre registration is confirmed and locked.
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Cheers Phil .... the waiting 30mins (or stopping for coffee in the first village) is the backup plan.
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Thanks to the email I received last night I am now starting at 19:00hrs. A whole fifteen minutes earlier ;D.
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Having received the same email, I just logged on to check my account and see what the options were for changing my start time. Unsurprisingly, all the early slots are still full so there's no benefit in changing.
I'm slightly confused though. I initially registered with a start time of 18.30 but now it seems that my start time is 18.00. With the new 17.30 and 17.45 start groups, have they just shuffled everyone forward half an hour? That would make sense, but the information has not been very clearly presented.
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Having received the same email, I just logged on to check my account and see what the options were for changing my start time. Unsurprisingly, all the early slots are still full so there's no benefit in changing.
I'm slightly confused though. I initially registered with a start time of 18.30 but now it seems that my start time is 18.00. With the new 17.30 and 17.45 start groups, have they just shuffled everyone forward half an hour? That would make sense, but the information has not been very clearly presented.
Ach... I hope they haven't moved everyone... I took advantage to move my slot forward 30mins to match my riding partner.. if they've shifter her too then we're no better off !
We will see eh.
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I'm slightly confused though. I initially registered with a start time of 18.30 but now it seems that my start time is 18.00. With the new 17.30 and 17.45 start groups, have they just shuffled everyone forward half an hour? That would make sense, but the information has not been very clearly presented.
Looks like they increased capacity in all waves, then removed the sixth and seventh vedette waves. So everyone after the fifth vedette wave automatically had their start time moved up. The spaces created in waves that were previously full then meant they could offer people the option of swapping to a more preferable slot, though they limited swaps to within the the same 80/90/84 time limit previously chosen.
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Yeah, every 90 hour rider seems to have been moved 30 minutes earlier...
Except the last two waves weren’t empty, so if you chose one of the later waves they might have done something different.
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I'm slightly confused though. I initially registered with a start time of 18.30 but now it seems that my start time is 18.00. With the new 17.30 and 17.45 start groups, have they just shuffled everyone forward half an hour? That would make sense, but the information has not been very clearly presented.
Looks like they increased capacity in all waves, then removed the sixth and seventh vedette waves. So everyone after the fifth vedette wave automatically had their start time moved up. The spaces created in waves that were previously full then meant they could offer people the option of swapping to a more preferable slot, though they limited swaps to within the the same 80/90/84 time limit previously chosen.
Thanks, that's pretty much what I assumed had happened.
We will see eh.
I don't know why they can't just give us that information right now, in a clear and easy to understand format. Oh, hang on, I do know why - it's because they're French.
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Posted on their Facebook page:
To allow more riders to enter PBP'19, we modified the 80h starts. There will be only 5 starts instead of 7, from 04:00pm to 05:00pm.
The special bikes will start at 05:15pm instead of 05:45. By doing so, we will have to more starts for 90h and all start times will put backward by 30 minutes.
We are expecting early starters to ride at least to Carhaix for their first stop, if possible Best and then Fougeres or Villaine on the way back. Otherwise, Loudeac will be a mess despite the extra accommodations that we are implementing.
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Otherwise, Loudeac will be a mess ...
Loudeac not a mess? What are they thinking - it's traditional!
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Otherwise, Loudeac will be a mess ...
Loudeac not a mess? What are they thinking - it's traditional!
I was thinking the same. Only time it’s not been a mess IME was when in the 80h start.
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I wouldn't get too hung up at this stage about which start time you have managed to get as it's all likely to change if the Brexit business isn't resolved by then and we are still EU members.
It seems that ACP are planning to move all of the British riders into one start group, which will be sent off first, ahead of the vedettes. Riders will be able to ride to the first control at Mortagne, but must then turn around and ride back to the start. They may then be given permission to rejoin the event and continue to an as-yet-unspecified 'final' control somewhere on the return leg between Brest and Loudeac. They will be allowed to abandon the event before reaching this control, but must give two controls' notice of their intention to do so. If they do choose to continue beyond the 'final' control, they MUST complete the event, no matter how long it takes them. However, the controls will not stay open for them and they will have to negotiate their own arrangements for food and shelter along the way.
As an alternative, British riders will also be allowed to remain in their currently allotted start group but will be required to spend 90 hours riding around the velodrome at Rambouillet and, naturally, will not have their rides validated.
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^^^^^^^^ ;D
Theresa is negotiating a three month time extension for Brits
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^^^^^^^^ ;D
Theresa is negotiating a three month time extension for Brits
three months? I've heard we have until October.
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^^^^^^^^ ;D
Theresa is negotiating a three month time extension for Brits
three months? I've heard we have until October.
At least I don't have to dick around with extra paperwork to drive in France in August now...probably... :hand:
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^^^^^^^^ ;D
Theresa is negotiating a three month time extension for Brits
three months? I've heard we have until October.
If Theresa May was organising British paperwork for PBP, she would probably aim to get your entries to ACP by October.
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three months? I've heard we have until October.
31st Oct is the new date by when we have to have left, extended or revoked.
If Parliament were to approve the Government's agreement in the meantime we'd leave before then, I believe on the 1st of the month following, and not on the 31st Oct.
Might seem a pedantic point, but yesterday's extension gives no guarantee we'll still be in and enjoying the benefits of EU membership come PBP.
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If the Withdrawal Agreement is approved we'll at worst be in the Transition Period, during which most of the bullshit associated with leaving the EU doesn't yet occur.
I don't think it's legally possible for us to No Deal Brexit before 31st October (unless the Bill Cashes of the world find a way to cancel the MEP elections), so PBP looks pretty safe.
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Looks like it's going to be a moot point for me personally as I probably won't be able to come to the party anyway - the job I'm doing now, which I thought was due to finish at the end of July, now looks like it won't finish until the end of August at the earliest - and alas I can't really afford to turn down the work.
Oh well, guess I'll have to start looking forward to 2023 instead...
(And on the plus side, it's paid work - yay!)
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I’m out :( just emailed my remaining qualifiers to confirm a DNS on both, and the ferry company to see if I get a refund or not.
All health related, I need to work out what i’m eating that makes me ill and (assuming it is wheat) do a better job of working out how to avoid it whilst on my bike - so far i’m being ill on every audax :(. Time to focus on my health, PBP will wait.
Do I have to do something with PBP, or simply ignore it now, safe in the knowledge that not finishing my qualifiers will be enough?
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I’m out
Do I have to do something with PBP, or simply ignore it now, safe in the knowledge that not finishing my qualifiers will be enough?
Assuming you have pre-registered, that will merely lapse if you don't then register. PBP are anticipating a proportion of those who pre-registered not to register (for whatever individual reason).
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I’m out :( just emailed my remaining qualifiers to confirm a DNS on both, and the ferry company to see if I get a refund or not.
All health related, I need to work out what i’m eating that makes me ill and (assuming it is wheat) do a better job of working out how to avoid it whilst on my bike - so far i’m being ill on every audax :(. Time to focus on my health, PBP will wait.
Do I have to do something with PBP, or simply ignore it now, safe in the knowledge that not finishing my qualifiers will be enough?
As a coeliac I can sympathise - took me years of feeling properly ill to work it out, but since then all good and I am back to Audax - good luck and you are right to prioritise health.
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Just imagine the schism if Scotland gets independence! Not only we (the English, Welsh and Northern Irish) not be able to cross into Europe we will not be able to ride on the A7 North of Carlisle. Along with our economy collapsing we will be unable to travel and will not have enough to eat and all continental food will either be banned or unavailable. Stella will become a luxury item and people in BMWs will mug tramps and chavs just to get the high status Belgian beer. People will build towers on the white cliffs of Dover just to catch a glimce of the promised land. As society as we know it collapses there is hope a new ride, London Land's End London is announced and it it will all be in good old England. Shunned by the Scots and the Continentals (term last used by Ron Atkinson) we are are destined to cycle on this divided land.
BB
Sent from my H8216 using Tapatalk
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Stella will become a luxury item
Almost plausible apart from that bit.
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....the A7 North of Carlisle.......Stella.........
Scots are increasingly stocking up with Stella etc in places such as Carlisle & Berwick, following the introduction of minimum alcohol unit pricing north of the border.
Carlisle is our Calais. :o
https://www.ft.com/content/09dbcf84-4f97-11e8-a7a9-37318e776bab (https://www.ft.com/content/09dbcf84-4f97-11e8-a7a9-37318e776bab)
“We’re selling it from pallets rather than the shelf".
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:o indeed!
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Wonder how many tins you have to buy for the price difference to cover the cost of the drive down from the central belt.
Makes more sense if you'd normally shop at Gala, Jedburgh or Dumfries I suppose.
Similarly when I visited the town of Comiens in France, as I walked from the station towards the town centre and then onto the bridge I noted it is very different from others, there's am abnormally low number of Tabacs and cafés.
On crossing the bridge and into Belgium I was bombarded with a street of Cafés and Tabacs.
https://goo.gl/maps/DWnYiJhWcue4YMrW9
Although what was weirder was the train on the Belgian side, I was unaware that the town is in an enclave of Wallonia, so for one stop only the guard spoke French first followed by Flandrian.
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It's worth thinking what shops will be open in relation to your pace and start time. It's not worth knowing that there's a Netto in Tinteniac, and a supermarket in Sizun, if they will be closed when you're there.
I've never been in Loudeac at a time to shop at the nearby Aldi.
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I've received this email:
Dear riders
In order to satisfy the many change of departure time requests, we have added an option to change your departure time, as far as your frame plate number has not been allocated.
If possible, we invite you to choose a departure time with more free slots.
Regards,
The PBP organising board
- I thought I was locked into the 7.15 departure time but now the website says "-24 places" for this time.
What is going on? I don't want to start at 8.30pm.
Any ideas?
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Thierry has come back to my email straight away to confirm I'm in the slot that I opted for.
:thumbsup:
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Its simple really, your locked in to your start time, but you can move to a slot with places available .
I real dont get this endless worry and people fretting .
Why is everything so difficult for the modern rider! God knows how these riders would have managed before the internet.
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It just seemed like an unnecessary email. Why tell me that I can move to a later time? I'm glad that it makes perfect sense to you.
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It just seemed like an unnecessary email. Why tell me that I can move to a later time? I'm glad that it makes perfect sense to you.
Why not? Some riders may (both or all) wish to move to the same start time.
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It just seemed like an unnecessary email. Why tell me that I can move to a later time? I'm glad that it makes perfect sense to you.
Why not? Some riders may (both or all) wish to move to the same start time.
And for some of usme, it meant weI could move to an earlier start time.
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Easy postie, Peter Marshall
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Its simple really, your locked in to your start time, but you can move to a slot with places available .
I real dont get this endless worry and people fretting .
Why is everything so difficult for the modern rider! God knows how these riders would have managed before the internet.
This worries me some times. We need to know everything down to the minute. Now if during the bike check they told you your start time had been put back 30 mins would you bat an eyelid?
On the constant Internet I have just finished a week long tour in Scotland, 4G everywhere. Now 5 years ago only mobile reception was in towns and pubs had the only Internet. Even the remotest places are now on line.
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Now if during the bike check they told you your start time had been put back 30 mins would you bat an eyelid?
Probably not.
I won't ask if I have another question about the event or I'll PM people I know.
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Now if during the bike check they told you your start time had been put back 30 mins would you bat an eyelid?
Probably not.
I won't ask if I have another question about the event or I'll PM people I know.
Just ignore them. Your questions are useful, and that's what the forum is for. Ask away - other people might be interested in the answers!
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Its simple really, your locked in to your start time, but you can move to a slot with places available .
I real dont get this endless worry and people fretting .
Why is everything so difficult for the modern rider! God knows how these riders would have managed before the internet.
We'd have managed but it would be a lot less fun, both for ourselves and the audience!
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Its simple really, your locked in to your start time, but you can move to a slot with places available .
I real dont get this endless worry and people fretting .
Why is everything so difficult for the modern rider! God knows how these riders would have managed before the internet.
This worries me some times. We need to know everything down to the minute. Now if during the bike check they told you your start time had been put back 30 mins would you bat an eyelid?
On the constant Internet I have just finished a week long tour in Scotland, 4G everywhere. Now 5 years ago only mobile reception was in towns and pubs had the only Internet. Even the remotest places are now on line.
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Not as many camper vans though 5 years ago... ::-)
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Any other special needs received conflicting update on start time for 90hr group?
My registration is still showing Group f at 17:15, yet I have received an unsolicited update saying I'm now group h at 17:45, but still special needs.
EDIT: Must have been a recalled email, as soon as I opened it properly rather than preview pane it disappeared!