Boris Johnson "After Rome"

[Charlotte]

hasn't screwed up yet

You're kidding, right?

I said:

I think you're a bit annoyed because Bozzer hasn't really badly screwed up yet.

You really haven't got the hang of quoting people yet, have you?

Of course he's done things that you disagree with.  It's in the nature of politics.  For instance, I happen to think that PTWs in the bus lane is a good thing. 

[spindrift]

For instance, I happen to think that PTWs in the bus lane is a good thing. 

Doesn't bother me, they use them on Bishopsgate  with impunity anyway, but the Bristol research showed it had a disincentive effect, it discouraged novice riders. Fewer cyclists means more dangerous roads, mixing two very different modes of transport is never a good idea. It also flies in the face of Boris's promises for cyclists like the Parliament Square scheme- a Unesco World Heritage site is gonna remain a squalid, traffic-choked oasis of inaccessibl grass surrounded by roads. I'd say losing two aides in twelve weeks is pretty flipping bad for any mayor.

[Phil]

And why did you say that the ancient greeks were sexually incontinent

For the third time, I didn't.

It was an analogy, I compared one silly thing (using the koran to slag off all British muslims) with another (using Zeus myths to make assertions about the sexual behaviour of ancient Greeks. Please, please, take this off thread if you want me to go over this.

You didn't quite say that, but I'm happy to assume it's what you meant.  Thanks for clearing it up. 

To get back on topic, why did you misquote Boris Johnson?

[spindrift]

There was no misquotation, the words left out make no difference to the tenor or central tenet, and I linked, three times, to the unexpurgated article.

Boris said Islam "is the problem" When challenged about it 3 years later he lies and says he never wrote that. That's the trouble with being a journalistic whore, you can get nasty diseases like my accusation that he's not a racist, just happy to confirm the silly prejudices of racist little Englanders. I reckon that's worse, a racist may stand by his convictions however misguided, Boris scribbling nasty, spiteful anti-Islamic tripe for an audience who laps it up puts me in mind of Boris in a shop doorway in fishnets, twirling a handbag and offering anal without.


 

[Adam]

For instance, I happen to think that PTWs in the bus lane is a good thing. 

Doesn't bother me, they use them on Bishopsgate  with impunity anyway, but the Bristol research showed it had a disincentive effect, it discouraged novice riders. Fewer cyclists means more dangerous roads, mixing two very different modes of transport is never a good idea. It also flies in the face of Boris's promises for cyclists like the Parliament Square scheme- a Unesco World Heritage site is gonna remain a squalid, traffic-choked oasis of inaccessibl grass surrounded by roads. I'd say losing two aides in twelve weeks is pretty flipping bad for any mayor.

Just a small point, but Parliament Square itself isn't a Unesco World Heritage site.

[Phil]

In your first post, you quote him as saying:

when is someobe gonna get medaeval on Islamic’s ass?

What he actually wrote was:

When is someone going to get 18th century on Islam’s mediaeval ass?

The first could easily be interpreted as a call for violent reprisals.  The second is a call for reform. 

That's a misquotation. 

[spindrift]

Oh, fair play, that was a  mistake. Which you wouldn't have known about had I not posted the whole article with the full quote. Nobody else is politics would have dared make such inflammatory remarks and at that stage Johnson had no idea the tories would make the same desperate error they did with Archer and parachute him into the job on the back of an unprecedented smear campaign in the Standard.

That sort of talk ought to be limited to the pubs near me where malcontents desperate for a scapegoat mutter about all the gays in the BBC who have banned Christmas and the Union Jack and there's a gay muslim paedophile under your child's bed.

It's terribly easy to tap into that kind of sentiment, and terribly irresponsible.

[Charlotte]

For instance, I happen to think that PTWs in the bus lane is a good thing. 

Doesn't bother me, they use them on Bishopsgate  with impunity anyway, but the Bristol research showed it had a disincentive effect, it discouraged novice riders. Fewer cyclists means more dangerous roads, mixing two very different modes of transport is never a good idea. It also flies in the face of Boris's promises for cyclists like the Parliament Square scheme- a Unesco World Heritage site is gonna remain a squalid, traffic-choked oasis of inaccessibl grass surrounded by roads. I'd say losing two aides in twelve weeks is pretty flipping bad for any mayor.

To be fair, what actually happened was that Bristol City Council concluded that because a minority of cyclists had experienced problems with PTWs in bus lanes, there was a "measurable negative effect".

I'd say that the majority of cyclists have experienced problems with buses in bus lanes - that doesn't mean we're going to ban buses any time soon...


_{Source:  http://www.nici.org.uk/campaining/campaining_files/ptw_bike_lanes.pdf}

[Julian]

Oh, fair play, that was a  mistake. Which you wouldn't have known about had I not posted the whole article with the full quote. Nobody else is politics would have dared make such inflammatory remarks and at that stage Johnson had no idea the tories would make the same desperate error they did with Archer and parachute him into the job on the back of an unprecedented smear campaign in the Standard.

That sort of talk ought to be limited to the pubs near me where malcontents desperate for a scapegoat mutter about all the gays in the BBC who have banned Christmas and the Union Jack and there's a gay muslim paedophile under your child's bed.

It's terribly easy to tap into that kind of sentiment, and terribly irresponsible.

Finger on problem there - what Johnson said was that it was time to get 18th century on Islam's medieval ass.  Now to me, that's a very witty way of saying time for an Islamic renaissance - highlighting that Bush & chums doing their best he-man Pulp Fiction impressions isn't going to work unless the actual religion (not its practitioners, the religion itself) distances itself from those parts of the Koran which deal with murdering infidels.  A fatwa on suicide bombing would do nicely.

Unfortunately, to the average pub malcontent too thick¹ to appreciate the distinction, they're hearing the exact opposite of what he said, and thinking this supports their own Pulp Fiction preferences for dealing with the "threat" of the gay terrorist peedo under the bed.

And yes, Johnson should be better aware of how easily what he says could be turned on its head by such people.



¹Yes, I'm an intellectual snob.  Deal with it. 

[clarion]

I would say that removing the Western Extension; cancelling the Venezuela deal; making black cab MoTs annual; interfering with an ongoing Police investigation, and losing advisors and deputies l, r & c counts as 'really badly screwed up'.

But that's just an opinion.  Electorally, he's charmed the motons, including black cab thugs drivers

[David Martin]

I would say that removing the Western Extension; cancelling the Venezuela deal; making black cab MoTs annual; interfering with an ongoing Police investigation, and losing advisors and deputies l, r & c counts as 'really badly screwed up'.

IIRC he has lost two. Therefore it can't be l,r & c. Please pick two of the above.

..d

[clarion]

I think there's at least three...

[Manotea]

I would say that removing the Western Extension; cancelling the Venezuela deal; making black cab MoTs annual; interfering with an ongoing Police investigation, and losing advisors and deputies l, r & c counts as 'really badly screwed up'.

But that's just an opinion. 

Quite so.

Electorally, he's charmed the motons, including black cab thugs drivers

And so is that. Some might says its quite an offensive opinion.

Alternative opinions might  run:

• The Western Extension is being dumped because over two thirds of Londoners and businesses responding to the consultation on the future of the zone have said they want it scrapped. The whole concept was a political nonsense imposed by Ken.
• The Venezuela deal was payola for Livingstone support for Chavez . Venezuela sending aid to the poor of London? Pah-leese.
• Boris's advisers have done the honourable thing by resigning. It certainly makes a change from Ken defending the indefensible to the death.
• Interfering with ongoing illegal police investigations, you mean. Boris might yet be the only person to come out of the whole affair with any credit.

But best not to bring Ken into it. It will only remind Londoners why they voted for Boris.

[spindrift]

What proportion of Londoners were surveyed on the Western Extension please? You'll find it was less than a third of one per cent of Londoners, many fewer than those effected.

The Venezualn deal was scrapped for idealogical reasons, you are quite right, and it's cost us £17m.

When did Ken "defend the indefensible", or is it easier to make vague, unsubstantiated claims?

[Julian]

What proportion of Londoners were surveyed on the Western Extension please? You'll find it was less than a third of one per cent of Londoners, many fewer than those effected.

The Venezualn deal was scrapped for idealogical reasons, you are quite right, and it's cost us £17m.

When did Ken "defend the indefensible", or is it easier to make vague, unsubstantiated claims?

In defending Sheikh Omar Bakri Mohammed?!  He's pretty indefensible (which yeah, Ken later acknowledged, but a bit late...)

[Manotea]

What proportion of Londoners were surveyed on the Western Extension please? You'll find it was less than a third of one per cent of Londoners, many fewer than those effected.

The Venezualn deal was scrapped for idealogical reasons, you are quite right, and it's cost us £17m.

When did Ken "defend the indefensible", or is it easier to make vague, unsubstantiated claims?

In defending Sheikh Omar Bakri Mohammed?!  He's pretty indefensible (which yeah, Ken later acknowledged, but a bit late...)

I was referring to Ken's city hall cronies but its all grist to the mill.

But lifes to short to revisit old threads...

Edit: Check the press release re: scrapping the Western Congestion Zone here. 28,000 responses over 5 weeks in parallel to a TfL survey seems like a pretty fair basis for action to me. It makes a change from Ken saying "I'm obliged to consult but not obliged to take any notice" whilst railroading (sic) through his own agenda.

[spindrift]

I've no idea what 28k is as a proportion of a city of 8m,

Another day at the office for Johnson, his key Olympics adviser resigns in an insider dealing scandal.

[Manotea]

I've no idea what 28k is as a proportion of a city of 8m,

The one thing for sure is that most of the 8 million do not live in West London. Still, its better than a constituency of 1, is it not?

Another day at the office for Johnson, his key Olympics adviser resigns in an insider dealing scandal.

Who's that then?

[Regulator]

What proportion of Londoners were surveyed on the Western Extension please? You'll find it was less than a third of one per cent of Londoners, many fewer than those effected.

The Venezualn deal was scrapped for idealogical reasons, you are quite right, and it's cost us £17m.

When did Ken "defend the indefensible", or is it easier to make vague, unsubstantiated claims?

In defending Sheikh Omar Bakri Mohammed?!  He's pretty indefensible (which yeah, Ken later acknowledged, but a bit late...)

And Chavez, despite his positives, also has quite a few negatives - many of which are fairly indefensible, such as his penchant for censorship.

[woollypigs]

Hmm I watched the program on Iplayer last week and found it very good.

1/ I for one want to go to the Middle East to see the beautiful countryside, the brilliant architecture and to learn more about the history.

2/ I really found that BoJo did get across that Islam is a very peaceful religion. e.g. various places that Islam moved to (yes invaded in some way, heck so did the Christians and non-Christians throughout history) but they didn't force Islam upon the "natives" and many places they lived alongside just fine.

Just look at Spain, 800 years there, but Jews and Christians lived among Muslims just fine. Like when Franco took power in Spain everyone had to convert to Catholicism. Islam also think that they are they best religion, in the way that Christians tried first and didn't get it right and then a second religion gave it a go, the Jews, but it was Islam that got it right. But they still understand that in the 2 other religions there are good and clever thinkings.

I have hear about this before elsewhere in books, net or on telly but it does not gather the headlines like the fanatics can do. BoJo did interview many people from across the Middle East form various institutes and universities, and the whole program was very good.

[Adam]

I've no idea what 28k is as a proportion of a city of 8m,

Another day at the office for Johnson, his key Olympics adviser resigns in an insider dealing scandal.

Simple maths.

28,000
------------     = 0.35%
8,000,000

however as Manotea points out, most of that 8 million are nowhere near the Western Extension.


You're also wrong regarding the resignation of David Ross.  Nothing to do with insider dealing.  Merely the fact that he hadn't declared to his company the fact he'd used his shares as collateral for personal loans.

[spindrift]

The money raised from the Western Extension would go to public transport for ALL Londoners, therefore they should have a say.


Oh, I read it was about shares then my head started spinning round. Tory sleaze is dogging Boris, will the last sacked member of his team turn all the lights off?

[Adam]

I've got no idea what political party David Ross supports and it hasn't been mentioned anywhere if he's a Conservative, Green, or Raving Trotsky party member, as it's not relevant to the issue. 

Also, I think he's only left his job at Carphone Warehouse.

[Manotea]

The money raised from the Western Extension would go to public transport for ALL Londoners, therefore they should have a say.

I dont have figures but my understanding is that the only people making money out of the congestion zone charging are the operators, which is why Ken had to raise the charge from 5 to 8  pounds.

And all Londoners have had a say; they voted for Boris!

[spindrift]

BORIS JOHNSON was under pressure today to sack David Ross - his key financial adviser for the 2012 Olympics.

Mr Ross was speaking to the Mayor to discuss his future as an adviser and his place on the organising committee.

The Mayor's senior team were in crisis talks to work out how to protect Mr Johnson from the fall-out from the affair.

The businessman's departure would be a major blow and would prompt further questions about the Mayor's judgment as he would be the fourth senior City Hall aide to go in recent months.

However, if he stands by MrRoss, Mr Johnson would face criticism for supporting him even though he had broken City rules.

Standard.

Two deputy mayors, chief political adviser, now his Olympics adviser.

Bozza sure can pick 'em!