Author Topic: Interesting or unusual planes?  (Read 388625 times)

essexian

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1500 on: 19 February, 2019, 02:52:05 pm »
No sign of them here in Stafford earlier.  :(


We did wonder whether the fly by went ahead given that there is quite low cloud here today.

yorkie

  • On top of the Galibier
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1501 on: 19 February, 2019, 03:19:12 pm »
Just seen them flying low over York pretty much bang on 15:00.


A flight of 3, in classic V-formation.
Born to ride my bike, forced to work! ;)

British Cycling Regional A Track Commissaire
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Martin

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1502 on: 19 February, 2019, 08:47:29 pm »
The Tonka was the first full on two engine fast (and very loud) jet I ever saw; a 4 ship at Folkestone airshow in 1998

chiz can't get near the route tomorrow so I'll have to be happy with the 9 ship down The Mall last year;

when the RAF say they will still fly what do they mean?

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1503 on: 19 February, 2019, 08:58:31 pm »
when the RAF say they will still fly what do they mean?

They mean that the farewell flights aren't exactly the last just a farewell tour right at the end of operations. There will still be  a few operational sorties over the next few weeks plus some planes flying to museum locations where they will be displayed then that's it.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1504 on: 19 February, 2019, 09:21:57 pm »
I should at least hear them tomorrow, as I work 2 miles from Halton. Might get to see them coming in from Cranfield if I walk up to the top of the hill.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Adam

  • It'll soon be summer
    • Charity ride Durness to Dover 18-25th June 2011
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1505 on: 20 February, 2019, 08:46:19 pm »
Makes me feel old, knowing they're retiring the Tornado.  In the mid 80's I flew into Warton, and we got a tour around the factory where they were building them.
“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.” -Albert Einstein

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1506 on: 20 February, 2019, 10:06:26 pm »
when the RAF say they will still fly what do they mean?

They mean that the farewell flights aren't exactly the last just a farewell tour right at the end of operations. There will still be  a few operational sorties over the next few weeks plus some planes flying to museum locations where they will be displayed then that's it.

R4 also suggested this evening that they may still have a training role, but operationally they are being replaced with Eurofighters.

Martin

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1507 on: 22 February, 2019, 10:49:19 pm »
definitely unusual but it's not about the planes; I welled up watching it; thanks to the BBC RAF USAF and everyone else who made it happen

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-47337174/flypast-for-ww2-us-bomber-crash-crew

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1508 on: 22 February, 2019, 11:24:07 pm »
Very impressive and, indeed, poignant. Respect to all involved, especially Tony Foulds - hopefully he's found a little peace after today.
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

TheLurker

  • Goes well with magnolia.
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1509 on: 23 February, 2019, 07:48:05 am »
Makes me feel old, knowing they're retiring the Tornado.
Umm. Yes.  I remember all the fuss in the later stages of its development (memory says '75-'76 but ICBA to goggle it) when it was still the Panavia MRCA.  I remember it being regarded as an extremely expensive white elephant not up to carrying out any of its intended roles effectively*.  Funny how things turn out eh?

Oh and Auntie.  Stop your reporters being so damned lazy and tell them to find another bloody word.  The Tornado is many things, but "iconic"? Hardly.

*So what's new in warplane development eh?
Τα πιο όμορφα ταξίδια γίνονται με τις δικές μας δυνάμεις - Φίλοι του Ποδήλατου

Steph

  • Fast. Fast and bulbous. But fluffy.
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1510 on: 24 February, 2019, 02:12:57 pm »
I have two wonderful books, acquired second hand
https://www.amazon.co.uk/British-Fighter-Since-Design-Development/dp/0370100492/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1551017194&sr=1-5&keywords=peter+lewis+fighter
https://www.amazon.co.uk/British-Bomber-Since-1914-Development/dp/B01HWRXVKY/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1551017261&sr=1-3&keywords=peter+lewis+bomber

The detail is amazing. Well worth a read. The latest edition just reaches the Tornado.

Speaking of which, the one version of the plane I have seen panned almost everywhere was the Air defence Variant.

Mae angen arnaf i byw, a fe fydda'i

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1511 on: 24 February, 2019, 02:45:13 pm »
Speaking of which, the one version of the plane I have seen panned almost everywhere was the Air defence Variant.

Unsurprisingly as it was designed as a multirole strike aircraft, should never have been forced into an ADF role.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1512 on: 24 February, 2019, 02:57:16 pm »
For a nuanced view, it might be worth having a read of these Hush-Kit pieces on the air defence Tornado - the 2016 one, an interview with a Phantom and Tornado back-seater, acknowledges the shortcomings of the F.2, but points out that the F.3 model was a very effective aircraft:

https://hushkit.net/2016/05/01/interceptor-how-how-to-fight-survive-in-phantom-and-tornado/

https://hushkit.net/2014/07/22/the-secret-electronic-attack-capabilities-of-the-tornado-f-mk-3-radar/
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

Steph

  • Fast. Fast and bulbous. But fluffy.
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1513 on: 24 February, 2019, 03:47:18 pm »
Speaking of which, the one version of the plane I have seen panned almost everywhere was the Air defence Variant.

Unsurprisingly as it was designed as a multirole strike aircraft, should never have been forced into an ADF role.
We HAD a multi-role strike aircraft, binned and all jigs, plans etc destroyed Beeching style*. It was called the TSR2.


*I say 'Beeching' because one of the major points of his axing of so many lines to boost Marples' road freight business was the destruction of roadways rather than the simple lifting or tracks. See how many old lines were blocked by housing estates. In my view, just like the smashing of Nimrods and immediate binning of Harriers, it was done so that there was no possibility of showing what a stupid decision it had been, by simply reversing the actions. You can't reinstate a railway when there are houses built across the line, and you can't bring back a plane when all the plans and equipment to make it have been carefully destroyed.
Mae angen arnaf i byw, a fe fydda'i

Martin

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1514 on: 25 February, 2019, 01:35:27 pm »
Speaking of which, the one version of the plane I have seen panned almost everywhere was the Air defence Variant.

Unsurprisingly as it was designed as a multirole strike aircraft, should never have been forced into an ADF role.
We HAD a multi-role strike aircraft, binned and all jigs, plans etc destroyed Beeching style*. It was called the TSR2.


well actually there was more to it than that;

1.it was a Tory project with large cost overruns which the new Labour government was keen to ditch
2. it was a sop to the RAF who had lost their first strike capabilities to Polaris and wanted something to justify their existence in the Cold War
3. the Usanians wanted us to buy the F111 instead; and more importantly not sell TSR2's to Australia (we never bought the F111 which is where the Tornado came in)

fantastic plane though!

Martin

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1515 on: 12 March, 2019, 04:03:02 pm »
There are a couple of rather natty retro liveries flying in and out of That London (and indeed in the case of the Airbus many other UK cities) ATM, a BOAC 747 and a BEA A319 (I know BEA never owned them but it's the nearest they can get)

search for  G-EUPJ and G-BYGC

here

https://www.flightradar24.com/

a couple more 747s also coming in the 2 previous BA liveries

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1516 on: 24 May, 2019, 10:49:41 am »
Not often I pop in here, but thought I'd correct a few misapprehensions...

The Tornado F2 was pretty awful, with its famous Blue Circle radar. But the F3, as Spesh says, was pretty good at its designed role, which was medium to high level beyond visual range interception defending the UK mainland. It was not, and was never intended to be, a 'dogfighter' like the F16, and its performance limitations were sorely exposed in GW2, where its inability to perform AAR at much above F150 made it a liability for the both the F3 and the tanker crews. But it was far from being as bad as some of the uninformed comment would have it.

The TSR2 was not really a multi-role aircraft. It was specifically designed as a replacement for the Canberra in the tactical nuclear and conventional strike role, with a secondary capability in photo reconnaissance. It was way, way over budget, and similarly way overweight, and it would not, in its projected production form, have met its design specs. However, it had that in common with just about every aircraft that the UK has developed since WW2! In its favour, it was incredibly pretty. There's no way, however, that it would have had the breadth of capability that the F4 Phantom had, which eventually replaced the Canberra (among many other types) in RAF service - and which cost far less. Though we did our best to screw that up by installing RR Speys and other UK-manufactured equipment, and it was only when we bought secondhand F4Js from the US Marines that we realised how much better our F4s could have been (and how little progress the Tornado GR1 and F3 actually represented).

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1517 on: 24 May, 2019, 10:11:08 pm »
TSR2 was a cracking looking plane though.
“There is no point in using the word 'impossible' to describe something that has clearly happened.”
― Douglas Adams

fuzzy

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1518 on: 26 May, 2019, 05:14:57 pm »
and it would not, in its projected production form, have met its design specs. However, it had that in common with just about every aircraft that the UK has developed since WW2!

How far off track was the Harrier Tim?

PaulF

  • "World's Scariest Barman"
  • It's only impossible if you stop to think about it
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1519 on: 26 May, 2019, 06:43:27 pm »
Yesterday saw a Tiger Moth (pretty certain) with R.A.F. roundels but it said U.S. Army under the wings. Was coming in or out of Wallop I assume.


EDIT although listed as not flying from the colour scheme it was probably this one:






http://historicarmyaircraft.co.uk/aircraft-2/de-havilland-tiger-moth-d1182a-em840-g-anby/

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1520 on: 26 May, 2019, 10:16:19 pm »
and it would not, in its projected production form, have met its design specs. However, it had that in common with just about every aircraft that the UK has developed since WW2!

How far off track was the Harrier Tim?

Not sure, Fuzzy. The Harrier is an oddity in that it started life as a technology demonstrator, and its remit and budget was incrementally increased until it became a production reality. So essentially, as far as I can determine, there was no projected programme cost to compare actual costs against.

The Harrier ll, or AV-8B, which saw RAF service as the GR7/9, was a US-led programme in which BAe was initially not involved, then became a sub-contractor once the UK government decided it wanted the aeroplane. Thus it was bought at a contracted unit price, which I believe was around $30m per aircraft. If the unit cost didn't inflate, the maintenance cost certainly did, and it was this that finally did for the Harrier in UK service.

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1521 on: 26 May, 2019, 10:22:01 pm »
Yesterday saw a Tiger Moth (pretty certain) with R.A.F. roundels but it said U.S. Army under the wings. Was coming in or out of Wallop I assume.


EDIT although listed as not flying from the colour scheme it was probably this one:






http://historicarmyaircraft.co.uk/aircraft-2/de-havilland-tiger-moth-d1182a-em840-g-anby/

EM840 isn't flying. Is it possible that the aircraft you saw is the Museum of Army Flying's Auster XR244? Similar size and powerplant to the Tiger Moth, but with a high monoplane wing, it has 'ARMY' prominently signed on various surfaces.

Historic Army Aircraft

more pics

PaulF

  • "World's Scariest Barman"
  • It's only impossible if you stop to think about it
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1522 on: 26 May, 2019, 10:35:41 pm »
No, was definitely a biplane. Only real doubt about it being a Tiger Moth was the U.S. Army on the underside, but subsequent Googling showed that they used them. Colour scheme is also right for EM840

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1523 on: 27 May, 2019, 12:42:42 am »
Yes, they did use them and there were a number in UK. I'm not aware of any currently in US Army markings in this country, but there may well have been one so painted over the last winter. I'm sure one of the spotter sites will reveal the answer! Try airliners.net. If they don't have a picture yet, I'm sure they will before long!

Adam

  • It'll soon be summer
    • Charity ride Durness to Dover 18-25th June 2011
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #1524 on: 29 May, 2019, 10:13:09 pm »
There are a couple of rather natty retro liveries flying in and out of That London (and indeed in the case of the Airbus many other UK cities) ATM, a BOAC 747 and a BEA A319 (I know BEA never owned them but it's the nearest they can get)

search for  G-EUPJ and G-BYGC

here

https://www.flightradar24.com/

a couple more 747s also coming in the 2 previous BA liveries

Agree - they do look nice.  Although it's a bit daft for BA to paint up the planes as part of their fake claim of 100 years of history, when it's a tenuous link.
“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.” -Albert Einstein