Author Topic: Decisions, decisions... Helios spec + have you got a few things in the bits box?  (Read 27557 times)

CrinklyLion

  • The one with devious, cake-pushing ways....
I shall merely point out that I've owned Valencia for nearly 4 years and had never bothered to even _really_ ask Kim to work out what the gears on her actually meant.  All of that up there just went totally over my head!

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
What it means, of course, is that physics is fun.  Especially the kind that leads naturally into bike rides, flapjack and related activities.

clarion

  • Tyke
Indeed so.  It is physics that gets us to the tearoom.
Getting there...

You're right of course Kim but you have to go a stage further in the analysis and take account of how the forces applied to the hub will vary in use.  Lower chainwheel sprocket ratios and/or smaller wheels give the rider more mechanical advantage and they can therefore continue pedalling up steeper hills than you would otherwise do, and that's what stresses the hub internals more.


Kim

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Well obviously, but we were talking about the effect of wheel size.

Tigerbiten OTP is the resident expert in gearing down way beyond the specified torque rating of hub gears, though he's using a Rohloff.

I expect that it's going to be much less of a problem on an upright tandem than on a recumbent trike, simply because of the balance issue.

Indeed so.  It is physics that gets us to the tearoom.
Yeah, but physics gets me to the tearoom too, without me having the slightest clue about them   ;D
Quote from: Kim
^ This woman knows what she's talking about.

clarion

  • Tyke
And that's all good. :-*
Getting there...

Absolutely right about the effect wheel size has on the gear inches, I've never considered the difference this makes  ;D

http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/internal.html
I can see using Sheldon's gear inches calculator for hub gears that it is certainly not a problem going low enough even on the 39/18 setup, although top gear could see you spun out on the flat or gentle downhills.

Looking at gear inches alone and not taking account what effect the ratios could have inside the hub, the
45/18 setup would give quite a nice range of 24.3" to 99.2" assuming 20x1.25" tyres and 170mm cranks.
I'm not sure how useful a gear under 24" would be on a tandem where balance would become an issue with a super-low gear going slowly uphill. A top gear under 90" would be a heavy price to pay for having something lower IMO.

Adam

  • It'll soon be summer
    • Charity ride Durness to Dover 18-25th June 2011
My Helios came with the Alfine 8 and I was completely underwhelmed by the range and actual usefulness of the gears.  To be honest, I thought it was complete crap, as it was no use for climbing anything more than a small gentle slope and rapidly ran out of oomph going downhill. 

I obtained a second hand Dahon wheel for less than £100 (same size - 20 inches) which had a SRAM dual drive and fitted that on instead.  With 24 gears, and having a much wider range, top and bottom, it's made a massive improvement to the bike's climbing and descending abilities, both solo in cargo bike mode and on the rare occasions it's used as a tandem.   And as stated above, it's very handy to be able to switch gears when stopped.  I do remember having a brief look at the gear range of the 11 speed Alfine unit, but I wanted more!

I've been very impressed with the standard rim brakes, or rather the actual original brake blocks, as they perform better then salmon Koolstops, but I must admit having had discs on the commuter bike, it's tempting to look for an upgrade for the Helios.
“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.” -Albert Einstein

Adam

  • It'll soon be summer
    • Charity ride Durness to Dover 18-25th June 2011
Oh, and a bit of advice for the future.  The front chain is 122 links, so when you eventually get round to changing chains after many happy hours of tandeming, make sure you've got 1 and a bit chains spare for the front!
“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.” -Albert Einstein

CrinklyLion

  • The one with devious, cake-pushing ways....
I appear to have paid a deposit.  It worked out that dual-drive was 50 quid more that 11-speed.  With a significantly lower bottom end.  And a rather higher top end.  And 165 cranks all round as standard.

Guess what I ordered?

I had something in the back of my mind about them not being recommended for tandems so had a surf around for the tech docs - page 58..

http://www.sram.com/_media/pdf/sram/dealers/SRAM-TechManual-MY10-GearHubSystems-English-RevA.pdf

Probably worth making sure the retailer provides a warranty. 

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Back to the same discussion about small wheels and reduced load on the hub. Bike Friday has been using SRAM DualDrive hubs on tandems (and triplets!) for many years.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
I appear to have paid a deposit.  It worked out that dual-drive was 50 quid more that 11-speed.  With a significantly lower bottom end.  And a rather higher top end.  And 165 cranks all round as standard.

Guess what I ordered?

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

And of course you can add a triple chainset later forr oodles of gears  :demon:

Back to the same discussion about small wheels and reduced load on the hub. Bike Friday has been using SRAM DualDrive hubs on tandems (and triplets!) for many years.

Indeed, as has Greenspeed on its tandem 'bents.  I would be looking to buy a complete bike rather than a frame and components though IYSWIM just to be on the safe side.

Kim

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If it's okay on a tandem bent, it'll be reet on a tandem upwrong.

But yeah, buying it as part of a complete bike makes it nicely SEP.

CrinklyLion

  • The one with devious, cake-pushing ways....
Which is why I've done presunktly that. The omnis+ was much nearer to my ideal spec, so it worked out better to get that rather than the omnis and tweak. Which meant the dual drive is one of the few bits that is standard spec...

Kim

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So, when's the forum ride?   :D

Forget forum ride when is the first tour.

 :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:

Kim

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GPWM

Isn't the dual-drive Sachs? Neatly sidestepping the whole Shimano-Campagnolo debate.

Kim

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Isn't the dual-drive Sachs? Neatly sidestepping the whole Shimano-Campagnolo debate.

They got borged by SRAM, which means they're better than either of them.

Sachs is easier to pronounce than SRAM...

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
SRAM sounds geekier...