Yet Another Cycling Forum
Off Topic => The Pub => Arts and Entertainment => Topic started by: gordon taylor on 27 October, 2011, 11:24:43 am
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I'm watching a recording of this ATM - but have had to pause for a moment to take up the slack in my jaw.
Brilliant TV. IMHO.
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yes, us too, absolutely amazing
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It was made by David Attenborough and the BBC. Did you expect anything less than "amazing"?
I thought that by now, there's nothing really new for me to learn from programmes like this, but wow, so wrong.
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Turns out that Killer Whales are smarter than I gave them credit for (and I knew they were pretty smart).
The technique they used for displodging seals from icebergs was incredible.
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I shall watch this tonight, provided the PVR hasn't thrown another hissy fit like it did a couple of weeks ago. Any narwhals yet?
Edit: I should also like to plug Origins Of Us (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b013gmh1). It'd be interesting even if it were fronted by Father Austin Purcell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Father_Ted_characters#Father_Austin_Purcell); that it is instead presented by Dr Alice Roberts is a bonus. Just don't watch the sequence in episode 2 with the chimpanzee saliva while eating dinner :sick:
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I guess we haven't seen much of this before due to the difficulties of filming in those extreme conditions.
With global warming, hopefully we'll get to see much more coverage of these beautiful landscapes and creatures.
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Frozen Planet episode 1 is on iPlayer (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00zj1q5/Frozen_Planet_To_the_Ends_of_the_Earth/) if you missed it.
I was disappointed not to see more of the Antarctic sub-ice-shelf fauna, such as the gigantic nemertean worms (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HG17TsgV_qI) from the BBC's "Life" series. But maybe they will be slithering along in later episodes.
(Life episode 8 is also on iPlayer (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00p4rl4/Life_Creatures_of_the_Deep/) for another couple of days. Worms galore at 08:50.)
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Brilliant. Awesome.
Mr Attenborough is going to be sadly missed when he's no longer able to do these. I find most other nature programmes unwatchable, because they're fronted by attention-grabbing dickheads who think it's about them, not the world around them, & they seem to be getting worse. Springwatch & Autumnwatch, for example, have gone horribly downhill.
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Eleven years ago I found myself in at tent with several others in the Simien Mountains in northern Ethiopia. A few hours after our arrival, some trucks arrived and set up camp nearby. It was a BBC film crew making a programme about Africa's mountains.
A young Australian detached himself from the BBC crew and came to join us in our tent. He was studying the social structure of Gelada Baboons, and was acting as an adviser to the programme makers. A programme about the baboons (and their sociology) had been broadcast the previous week - he had written the script for that. He told us that a team of cameramen (he was full of wonderment at their skills) had gone to the Simiens, spent months filming, and gone back with hours of footage of a family group of Geladas, timelapse sunrises, gathering storms etc. Back in Bristol the wildlife unit started to edit it into some sort of narrative, and noticed that one of the very young baboons was walking with a limp. To make things a little more dramatic, they had dummies of young gelada made, flew a film crew back to Ethiopia, stuffed one of the dummies with goats entrails and the like, and placed it on a clifftop, then filmed it all as vultures came down and pecked away at the 'body'. The commentary on the finished film said something about the survival of the fittest, and that there was no place for sentiment, implying that the young gelada had been abandoned to his fate.
This story has been at the back of my mind ever since whenever I see a BBC wildlife programme.
The relevance to The Frozen Planet? I'd forgotten the young Australian's name until I saw the 'making of' bit at the end, and there he was, Chadden Hunter, in an ice cave near Mt Erebus, then watching killer whales surfacing, and appearing in the credits as assistant producer.
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Wildlife filming is always full of trickery of various sorts. The usual one is stitching together scenes of several different animals shot at different times in different places to make a single narrative. An example where this probably happened in "Frozen Planet" is the sequence where a pod of killer whales hunts and kills a Weddell seal. Probably three or more hunts have been stitched together here: it would be amazing if the camera team had managed to get into place to capture aerial shots, ground level shots, and underwater shots from the same hunt.
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That scene with the bison was the second funniest thing in the entire history of Attenborough evvah. The funniest being the one in which Generic African Ruminant, hotly pursued by a cheetah, runs head-first into a tree at 60 mph.
A Cheetah: ROFL. In fact, PMSL. Om nom nom nom tasty ruminant burp. LOL.
That Scaryduck has a lot to answer for.
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Very pretty, but I have to say it left me feeling rather cold1 - all very disjointed as though they had a couple of pretty sequences2 that they wanted to show, and so just butted them together and then strung a commentary over the top. It was as though it was made the wrong way round:
1) Send camera teams out for some stunning footage
2) Edit some sequences together
3) Figure we ought to actually put a television program together with it
4) Run out of time/budget without coming up with a better overarching continuity device than "we sent some camera teams to some cold places with a remit to film something pretty".
I think it would have been better if it had been edited for and shown as a selection of ten minute shorts spread throughout the week.
1 Coat please
2 Indeed very very pretty
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That scene with the bison was the second funniest thing in the entire history of Attenborough evvah.
+1! ;D
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I guess we haven't seen much of this before due to the difficulties of filming in those extreme conditions.
With global warming, hopefully we'll get to see much more coverage of these beautiful landscapes and creatures.
I hope for this as well. It's simply frustrating when glaciers and icebergs obscure the view of the natural scenery.
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Having had a quick look at the accompanying book the other day, it seems that narwhals should be putting in an appearance. RAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWRRRRRRRRRRRR!
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Wow. The only whinge I can concoct is the lack of a "Sexual content" warning :P
v good from start to finish. The standout part for me was the footage of iceberg formation; a really good use of those expensive cameras.
But it was all good. Even the shagging.
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Very pretty, but I have to say it left me feeling rather cold1 - all very disjointed as though they had a couple of pretty sequences2 that they wanted to show, and so just butted them together and then strung a commentary over the top. It was as though it was made the wrong way round:
1) Send camera teams out for some stunning footage
2) Edit some sequences together
3) Figure we ought to actually put a television program together with it
4) Run out of time/budget without coming up with a better overarching continuity device than "we sent some camera teams to some cold places with a remit to film something pretty".
I think it would have been better if it had been edited for and shown as a selection of ten minute shorts spread throughout the week.
1 Coat please
2 Indeed very very pretty
I suspect it'll settle down this week. I've noticed with the last couple of big wildlife series that the first one is often a sort of whistlestop introduction, and that later episodes are more focussed.
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And its just featured a narwhal fight. Life is good.
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RARRRRRRRRRRR! I looked up and there were just horns poking out of the water.
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Damn, you beat me by seconds!
NARWHALS!
(And it was more of a traffic jam, than a fight).
My licence fee has been justified already by this episode. I literally LOLed at the thieving Adele penguin.
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NARWHALS!
(And it was more of a traffic jam, than a fight).
AINT NO CONFLICT ON THOSE BITCHES. (they just find a way round)
My licence fee has been justified already by this episode. I literally LOLed at the thieving Adele penguin.
Well done the BBC, another winner.
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Amazing shot of the pod of orca skyhopping. Could have be aliens on some other planet.
And I loved the 10 minute making-of film this week. You have to be dedicated to do that job!
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An Elephant Seal could totally pwn a Narwhal in a fight!
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Very pretty, but I have to say it left me feeling rather cold1
Glad it's not just me. I watched it last night after reading the rapturous reviews of last week's episode and was frankly a bit disappointed. Lots of pretty pictures to look at, but the silly music really got on my nerves and the narrative was cliché-ridden nonsense. :sick:
That said, the narwhals were brilliant. :thumbsup:
- all very disjointed as though they had a couple of pretty sequences2 that they wanted to show, and so just butted them together and then strung a commentary over the top. It was as though it was made the wrong way round:
1) Send camera teams out for some stunning footage
2) Edit some sequences together
I suspect that's largely down to the fact that Attenborough's role these days is principally as a figurehead. This isn't a true Attenborough series in the same way that Life On Earth was, for the simple reason that his main involvement is being back in the studio reading a script. OK, he probably has some involvement in the commissioning and editing process as well, but it lacks the impact of seeing him larking about with gorillas.
It's really time for him to had over the baton to someone younger who can actually get out there and do the job hands-on - I reckon Steve Backshall would be a brilliant natural successor to Attenborough. Backshall's Deadly 60 is by far the best natural history prog on telly at the moment.
d.
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Wildlife filming is always full of trickery of various sorts. The usual one is stitching together scenes of several different animals shot at different times in different places to make a single narrative. An example where this probably happened in "Frozen Planet" is the sequence where a pod of killer whales hunts and kills a Weddell seal. Probably three or more hunts have been stitched together here: it would be amazing if the camera team had managed to get into place to capture aerial shots, ground level shots, and underwater shots from the same hunt.
Regardless, the Orca seal hunt section was off the scale fantastic. I've never seen anything like it. The Orca raising it's head out of the water to eyeball the seal on the ice was straight out of 'Alien'.
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I suspect that's largely down to the fact that Attenborough's role these days is principally as a figurehead. This isn't a true Attenborough series in the same way that Life On Earth was, for the simple reason that his main involvement is being back in the studio reading a script. OK, he probably has some involvement in the commissioning and editing process as well, but it lacks the impact of seeing him larking about with gorillas.
It's really time for him to had over the baton to someone younger who can actually get out there and do the job hands-on - I reckon Steve Backshall would be a brilliant natural successor to Attenborough. Backshall's Deadly 60 is by far the best natural history prog on telly at the moment.
d.
He was out on the Antarctic in last night's show. Or maybe the Arctic. I was skyping Bobb at the time so I'm not sure. But there isn't a lot of larking around he can do at the poles - he's not exactly going to start trying to cuddle a polar bear or a narwhal.
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It's really time for him to had over the baton to someone younger who can actually get out there and do the job hands-on - I reckon Steve Backshall would be a brilliant natural successor to Attenborough. Backshall's Deadly 60 is by far the best natural history prog on telly at the moment.
d.
Infidel!
I've seen a bit of Backshall, I think, and much prefer Attenborough. Too many of the younger lot feel the need to shout all the time. Give me understated.
Anyway, you don't need someone on screen all the time. A good commentary tells you what you need to know, and the pictures do the rest.
Long may Attenborough reign.
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He was out on the Antarctic in last night's show. Or maybe the Arctic.
Oh, I must have missed that bit. Apologies, Mr ASir D. :-[ [edited - thank you, Rhys ;D]
d.
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That's "Sir" to you! ;D
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A good commentary tells you what you need to know, and the pictures do the rest.
One of my problems with Frozen Planet is that it doesn't have a good commentary.
It does have silly music, though, which is wholly unnecessary and detracts from my enjoyment.
I know what you mean about young presenters being shouty but I find Backshall engaging and interesting.
d.
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I literally LOLed at the thieving Adele penguin.
Careful. That's Pengor: Penguin of Doom (http://pengor.blogspot.com/) and he is teh Evilz.
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I questioned one statement by Attenborough which seemed just to hang in the air: it was about the orcas not being penguin eaters, but fish eaters, and they were only dancing on their tails to find out which way the open sea was.
How do they know?
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Presumably the researchers spend a lot of time trawling the literature (along with youtube and wikipedia) for such observations from people who do know, then they write the script, and DA reads it...
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Barakta's watching a narwhal fight. On an iPad. Fuck yeah!
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Presumably the researchers spend a lot of time trawling the literature (along with youtube and wikipedia) for such observations from people who do know, then they write the script, and DA reads it...
My problem with this sort of stuff is that I've taken as gospel stuff that I've read in books about animals and then my own experience has demonstrated the book to be wrong - or at least, incomplete. This sort of thing turned up fairly often when I was beekeeping.
My (very well qualified) beekeeping mentor explained this by saying "Well, the bees clearly don't read the right books!"
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I've just found out that my Dad is getting the box set for Christmas, so I might be watching Narwhal traffic jams on Christmas day :)
Oh and the Narwhals clips have their own little web site here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/life/Narwhal#p00l73b8)
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Presumably the researchers spend a lot of time trawling the literature (along with youtube and wikipedia) for such observations from people who do know, then they write the script, and DA reads it...
My problem with this sort of stuff is that I've taken as gospel stuff that I've read in books about animals and then my own experience has demonstrated the book to be wrong - or at least, incomplete. This sort of thing turned up fairly often when I was beekeeping.
My (very well qualified) beekeeping mentor explained this by saying "Well, the bees clearly don't read the right books!"
Given the speed that the Penguins were waddling away it seems that nobody told them that the Orcas didn't eat Penguins.
I loved the sequence showing a chavvy Penguin stealing stones from another. Until then I didn't realise a Penguin could display a "I'm totally innocent and simply have no idea who took your stones" expression.
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I questioned one statement by Attenborough which seemed just to hang in the air: it was about the orcas not being penguin eaters, but fish eaters, and they were only dancing on their tails to find out which way the open sea was.
How do they know?
Its called an educated guess. It's likely that the orcas learn a lot from the higher viewpoint, but researchers are 95% certain they use the information about local geography. Of course they may also be making detailed notes of penguin society, and the significance of fancy eyebrows therein.
Or were you asking about Orcas eating fish? Your post is unclear.
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They start sending it on Danish television tonight After reading this thread, it seems like a must see. :thumbsup:
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I questioned one statement by Attenborough which seemed just to hang in the air: it was about the orcas not being penguin eaters, but fish eaters, and they were only dancing on their tails to find out which way the open sea was.
How do they know?
Its called an educated guess. It's likely that the orcas learn a lot from the higher viewpoint, but researchers are 95% certain they use the information about local geography. Of course they may also be making detailed notes of penguin society, and the significance of fancy eyebrows therein.
Or were you asking about Orcas eating fish? Your post is unclear.
My post was about the certainty of scientists telling us about animal behaviour, our knowledge of which can only be gleaned by observation (parrots excepted - they can talk so can explain what they are doing). Assumptions can be made, but such certain statements by Attenborough would be better if he said something along the lines of "Our observations make us think that..."
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How do they know?
The programme's researchers have read the scientific literature and condensed it to a narrative. Like any scientific claims, these are hypotheses on the basis of the available evidence, and inevitably the narration doesn't include all the caveats that appear in the science. (I think this is necessary simplification when making this kind of popular programme, but it's a shame that the BBC don't provide us with a way to trace back the narrative to the primary research.)
I questioned one statement by Attenborough which seemed just to hang in the air: it was about the orcas not being penguin eaters, but fish eaters, and they were only dancing on their tails to find out which way the open sea was.
Attenborough says (at 46:14 in episode 2 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00zj35k/Frozen_Planet_Spring/)):
There is no real need for the penguins to be alarmed. These killer whales are a kind that only eats fish. Rising out is simply the best way for the whales to work out which cracks lead toward the coast and better fishing.
Pitman and Ensor (2003) is a paper supporting the first claim ("These killer whales are a kind that only eats fish"). The evidence for the restricted diet of population C comes largely from observation of stomach contents by Soviet whalers. See page 137: "Berzin and Vladimirov (1983) reported the stomach contents of 785 killer whales taken by the Soviet fleet in 1979/80". For this population the stomach contents was "98.5% fish, 0.4% marine mammals, 1.1% squid". On the other hand there's behavioural observation that goes the other way:
Various personnel at McMurdo Station, Ross Sea, have reported that they have seen killer whales attacking both penguins and seals just off the base there on several occasions. Although it is not known which type of killer whales were involved (or even if these were really attacks), Type C is by far the most common form in the McMurdo area and would be the most likely candidate."
Ballard and Ainley (2005) have some intriguing observations of killer whales chasing (but apparently not catching or eating) penguins in the Ross Sea, and speculate as to the whales' motivation:
... the presence of so many young whales, and the apparent focus of the adults on delivering single penguins to the young without any attempt to actually consume the penguins lead us to speculate that training was precisely the motivation. Such a scenario fits the definition of ‘training’ as reviewed by Baird (2000). While it seems killer whales rarely, if ever, eat Adélie penguins, penguins may offer a sort of “training simulator” for young learning to help provide food for the pod.
So the state of knowledge is more complex than can be summed up in a couple of sentences of narration, as you'd expect.
The second claim "Rising out is simply the best way for the whales to work out which cracks lead toward the coast and better fishing" is likely to be an informed guess based on watching the animals and tracking their movement using satellite-tracking tags attached to the whales' dorsal fins. Andrews et al. (2008) describes the research:
Since at least the early 1970s, killer whales have been recorded annually in McMurdo Sound shortly after the icebreaking has begun. The whales have apparently learned to take advantage of foraging habitat made available when the icebreaker(s) opens up the channel, which allows whales to forage deeper into the fast ice than they could otherwise (Pitman and Ensor 2003)."
(I couldn't find a paper that directly comments on the "rising out of the water to look for cracks" behaviour, but I only spent a few minutes searching. If you find something, post it here.)
References cited
- Russel D. Andrews, Robert L. Pitman, and Lisa T. Ballance (2008). "Satellite tracking reveals distinct movement patterns for Type B and Type C killer whales in the southern Ross Sea, Antarctica (http://www.cascadiaresearch.org/robin/AndrewsetalPolarBiology.pdf)". Polar Biol. 31:1461–1468.
- Grant Ballard and David G. Ainley (2005). "Killer whale harassment of Adélie penguins at Ross Island (http://www.prbo.org/refs/files/11671_Ballard2005.pdf)". Antarctic Science. 17(3):385–386.
- Robert L. Pitman and Paul Ensor (2003). "Three forms of killer whales (Orcinus orca) in Antarctic waters (http://foodweb.uhh.hawaii.edu/MARE390_files/Pitman%20and%20Ensor%202003.pdf)". J. Cetacean Res. Manage. 5(2):131–139.
Edit: I see from episode 3 that Bob Pitman was brought in by the BBC to be their killer whale consultant, so it's not a surprise to see his research featuring heavily.
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I know it's the circle of life and all that, but some of this tonight is quite hard to watch.
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The seals fight sequence was a bit spiky, for sure..
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I know it's the circle of life and all that, but some of this tonight is quite hard to watch.
I'm pretty immune to the natural need for stuff to eat other stuff, but the orcas and minke was an eye opener. I know lots of predators gang up and exhaust their prey, but somehow the minke and the orca seemed too related. It was like bullying.
The more I see of orcas, the more I realise they are the chimps of the sea - a reminder that animals have many of the less attractive qualities we used to think were unique to us....
I did like the polar bear drying himself on the ice though. And the muskox were cool!
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Yikes. Just saw the 'making of', and the Orcas lining up to do their wave thing at the camera boat...
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I'm pretty immune to the natural need for stuff to eat other stuff, but the orcas and minke was an eye opener. I know lots of predators gang up and exhaust their prey, but somehow the minke and the orca seemed too related. It was like bullying.
The more I see of orcas, the more I realise they are the chimps of the sea - a reminder that animals have many of the less attractive qualities we used to think were unique to us....
I did like the polar bear drying himself on the ice though. And the muskox were cool!
I didn't like the birds grabbing the penguin chick either. I know everything has to eat something else to live, but :(
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Yikes. Just saw the 'making of', and the Orcas lining up to do their wave thing at the camera boat...
I couldn't believe the reaction of the chap in the boat - along the lines of, "oh, bless. They want to eat us. How thrilling."
Just as well the whales didn't realise the boat was an inflatable. One bite and you're fresh meat mate.
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The music was mostly unnecessary and spoiled the program.
As for nat. hist. programmes being made up. A person I know worked with a (insert well known natural history channel company here) in Australia.
Filming bats. Sadly the tree that the bats were in wasn't photogenic enough, so they moved them to one that was. ::-)
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The orca hunt was a beautiful bit of coordinated bullying. Chapeau, if you wore hats, my predatory pals.
And just turn the bloody sound off if you don't like it. ::-)
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You think wild life is enhanced by smug classical music? ::-) ::-)
Mind you, most of the noises are also added after - I doubt many of the animals had lavalier microphones on for the long shots.
Twee made up stuff that detracts from the rather good footage.
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Didn't notice the music so wasn't distracted.
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Mind you, most of the noises are also added after - I doubt many of the animals had lavalier microphones on for the long shots.
In the 10-minute "this is how we did it" section, the banter of the crew as they filmed the polar bears was very prominent - that's when you realise the footage is silent and they dub nature sounds over the top afterwards.
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Yes, that was very obvious. It was rather odd seeing the bears and having the chatting going on.
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Mind you, most of the noises are also added after - I doubt many of the animals had lavalier microphones on for the long shots.
But I've known that for ages. I quite fancy being a foley artist. Bring on the coconuts and gravel tray! What is it for polar bears on snow? A bag of icing sugar on a table top...
I don't think the sound effects matter in the slightest myself - people want to feel they are there, and the sound effects provide that. I can understand the point about the music, but I tend to zone it out anyway.
On the other hand, it can enhance. Any shot of a penguin on land is improved by a slightly comic tune, it's like the gravy on beef. And my Mum still talks about how much she enjoyed a scene in Life on Earth when Sir David descended into the Grand Canyon on a mule, to the refrain of a slightly lopsided hobble-dee tune, which matched the gait of a mule perfectly.
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The music put me off the whole series. (I saw and heard preview clips, and know what these kind of things are like).
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I thought there was rather less violent DETH in the series as a whole than used to be the norm. We've had far more failed hunts here than used to be the norm, and I'm thinking of nipping up to the Arctic with a bunch of flyers from local takeaways so that the cute1 ickle polar bears can get in a pizza.
1 - Yes, I know that they'll grow up to be remorseless killing machines the size of a Ford Fiesta but with big pointy teeth, but do anything to polar bear cubs and I'll shoot you in the face with very slow bullets. Triangular ones.
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Squeamish, click thou not:
http://imgur.com/gallery/H2Vx4
Polar bears are BAMFs. :demon: :thumbsup:
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I thought there was rather less violent DETH in the series as a whole than used to be the norm. We've had far more failed hunts here than used to be the norm,
I think this is due to a desire to give a more accurate portrayal than was traditional. If you believed some old natural history programmes, you'd think that predators could kill at will, & if you thought about it, you'd wonder why they weren't all fat. There was a regrettable tendency to over-dramatise, & show the myth rather than the reality, e.g. the famous Disney lemming-throwing film.
For all the critics: just go & watch Nigel Marven, or that South African snake man, or the farce that Autumnwatch has become. At least Attenborough still makes programmes which are about the wildlife, rather than the presenters.
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that South African snake man
Austin Stevens? He's hilarious. I quite enjoy his programmes - for all the wrong reasons. I certainly don't consider them documentaries.
At least Attenborough still makes programmes which are about the wildlife, rather than the presenters.
This is why I like Steve Backshall - he's a personality, sure, but it's not all about him. No more than Attenborough cavorting with gorillas was about Attenborough rather than the gorillas, anyway.
d.
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On the other hand, it can enhance. Any shot of a penguin on land is improved by a slightly comic tune ...
Especially when something flies off with one of the chicks, then rips it to bits with his 5 mates.*
I am very against all this superfluous music, but it's much worse on nearly every other TV programme made this decade. Look at Dr Who - as soon as a dialogue finishes, the rousing orchestra grab their chance.
Yikes. Just saw the 'making of', and the Orcas lining up to do their wave thing at the camera boat...
I couldn't believe the reaction of the chap in the boat - along the lines of, "oh, bless. They want to eat us. How thrilling."
Just as well the whales didn't realise the boat was an inflatable. One bite and you're fresh meat mate.
That was just astonishing. They must have been very certain that Orcas don't eat humans. Or mad. Or snowblind?
*Classic behaviour of species Homo Sapiens, especially the male. The 'amusing' comment is intended to hide his disgust/fear of an experience.
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I'm pretty immune to the natural need for stuff to eat other stuff, but the orcas and minke was an eye opener. I know lots of predators gang up and exhaust their prey, but somehow the minke and the orca seemed too related. It was like bullying.
The more I see of orcas, the more I realise they are the chimps of the sea - a reminder that animals have many of the less attractive qualities we used to think were unique to us....
I did like the polar bear drying himself on the ice though. And the muskox were cool!
I didn't like the birds grabbing the penguin chick either. I know everything has to eat something else to live, but :(
I remember in the relatively early days of wildlife programmes (1962? I know I was very young), a team went to Africa to film wildebeest and stuff. They showed a lot of the Serengeti wildlife and that included (IIRC) the first ever film of a wildebeest being born. Sadly, within an hour it had been eaten by a load of hyenas.
The next bit of the programme showed the erstwhile commentary crew charging around with their Land Rover trying to run over the hyenas.
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Yesterdays Telegraph had some excellent photo's, there were two of a cat batting a mouse around. Not very pretty..
pic 1 (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/picturesoftheday/8888611/Pictures-of-the-day-14-November-2011.html?image=3)
pic 2 (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/picturesoftheday/8888611/Pictures-of-the-day-14-November-2011.html?image=4)
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I believe this story has already been rebutted, but top marks to the Mail for effort:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2061663/Frozen-Planet-Climate-change-episode-wont-shown-US.html
Edit: here's the BBC's own version of the story:
http://blogs.bbcworldwide.com/2011/11/15/majority-of-international-broadcasters-will-show-all-frozen-planet-episodes/
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http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/11/15/frozen-planets-climate-ch_n_1094362.html
Huffington Post also mention this.
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I am going to start a social networking website aimed specifically at wolves in order to prevent lone wolves and bison from having to fight it out like extras in a Jackie Chan movie. wolfbook.com. This time next year, Rodders, we'll be millionaires.
Also that penguin who ended up with her beak buried in the ice after failing to leave the sea on time and in budget was definitely doing some very bad peng-swears. If Emperor Penguins could talk, they'd sound like Python's pepperpots.
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Also that penguin who ended up with her beak buried in the ice after failing to leave the sea on time and in budget was definitely doing some very bad peng-swears.
O sh__ ! I haven't watched this one yet, it sounds appaling.
Have the heartless bastards finally filmed something worse than the heron chick-things weighed down by stone ankle-bracelets? :'(
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O sh__ ! I haven't watched this one yet, it sounds appaling.
Have the heartless bastards finally filmed something worse than the heron chick-things weighed down by stone ankle-bracelets? :'(
The peng was OK, just cross. However the eider ducks freezing to DETH following fly south for the winter FAIL was a bit stressful.
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The scene of wolf/bison fight to the death was among the most amazing natural history films I've seen. Really brought home the narrow line between predator and prey.
And I hope she didn't give the coward male wolf any! >:(
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The scene of wolf/bison fight to the death was among the most amazing natural history films I've seen. Really brought home the narrow line between predator and prey.
And I hope she didn't give the coward sensible male wolf any! >:(
FTFY
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The photography of the ice crystals forming is beautiful.
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The whole thing is beautiful - even the gore and death.
I'm quite in awe of the people who made the programme: it's always pretty easy to assume that Scott & co perished because they were underprepared. This series had brought home the fact that the polar environment is so desperately hostile that, even with modern buildings, clothing etc., the participants are still putting themselves at a quite significant risk.
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Again, tonight - the one about the people.
Words fail me.
:o
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Ten minutes into that, I concluded the most interesting animal on this planet is the Human. Fascinating, and sort of inspiring.
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Ten minutes into that, I concluded the most interesting animal on this planet is the Human. Fascinating, and sort of inspiring.
I'd love to see how my family would(n't) cope with living on the tundra in a reindeer skin hut on skids. Dinner darling? Have a slice of frozen fish.
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I loved those huts on skids. ;D
There was a programme on radio 4 during the week, with the comedian Richard Herring, and he was saying how we all think equality is a good thing. Then he pointed out the disparity in standards of living across the globe, and how equality ought really to mean we in the developed world lived much more simple and impoverished lives. And then aksed "Now how many of you want equality?". Neat point.
Actually, those people last night weren't all that poor: they had enough to eat, they had their families and their culture - although the last is probably under attack. But when you think how hard they work for it, compared to most of us...
I also enjoyed the gull egg harvesting chap turning his nose up at the chicken korma ready meal in the 'how it's made' bit - I didn't quite catch what he said though, I think it was subtitled or translated, but I missed it....
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Ten minutes into that, I concluded the most interesting animal on this planet is the Human. Fascinating, and sort of inspiring.
I think you may be right; have the BBC made any other programmes about this fascinating species?
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Ten minutes into that, I concluded the most interesting animal on this planet is the Human. Fascinating, and sort of inspiring.
I think you may be right; have the BBC made any other programmes about this fascinating species?
Er, a whole series: Human Planet
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00llpvp
Also mindblowing, IMHO.
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I also enjoyed the gull egg harvesting chap turning his nose up at the chicken korma ready meal in the 'how it's made' bit - I didn't quite catch what he said though, I think it was subtitled or translated, but I missed it....
He merely said --- it was translated --- that he'd tried it before. His expression was everything.
What they didn't translate was what was so funny when the various hunters met up. Attenborough insisted that it was "the latest jokes", but you just know that it'll be the same routine every year:
I am the Egg Man.
They are the Egg Men.
I am the Walrus.
All collapse laughing and roll around on icy floor.
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;D ;D ;D
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I think I prefer the programmes about aminals.
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Is it really true wot it says in the Grauniad TV guide about the climate change episode not being shown in the States?? I thought it was an internet rumour....
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It's true.
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Climate Change?
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Climate Change?
You know how last winter we had a LOT more snow-n-ice than usual in the south-east?
Climate Change. Seemples!
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Is it really true wot it says in the Grauniad TV guide about the climate change episode not being shown in the States?? I thought it was an internet rumour....
See the links I posted upthread.
d.
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I also enjoyed the gull egg harvesting chap turning his nose up at the chicken korma ready meal in the 'how it's made' bit - I didn't quite catch what he said though, I think it was subtitled or translated, but I missed it....
He merely said --- it was translated --- that he'd tried it before. His expression was everything.
What they didn't translate was what was so funny when the various hunters met up. Attenborough insisted that it was "the latest jokes", but you just know that it'll be the same routine every year:
I am the Egg Man.
They are the Egg Men.
I am the Walrus.
All collapse laughing and roll around on icy floor.
;D ;D
I've just had a second "Worth the licence fee alone" moment from this series (the first one being the thieving Adele penguin). The submarine coming up from the ice. Awesome to start with, but with a beautifully comic twist when you noticed the lump of ice sitting on top of the conning tower, just like the snow on a car roof...
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Is it really true wot it says in the Grauniad TV guide about the climate change episode not being shown in the States?? I thought it was an internet rumour....
It's true, but the urban myth/internet rumour bit is the 'episode is banned in USA' story. I think Citoyen's link explains it all. This story was carried by the Daily Mail. Need I say more?
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Not enough narwhals chiz but I can never get tired of penguins. Also, Sir Dave is a fookin' legend.
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I've just had a second "Worth the licence fee alone" moment from this series (the first one being the thieving Adele penguin). The submarine coming up from the ice. Awesome to start with, but with a beautifully comic twist when you noticed the lump of ice sitting on top of the conning tower, just like the snow on a car roof...
That was indeed rather awesome (and funny) - perhaps cos it wasn't what you expect from a nature prog. I bet the guys that make submarine movies are cross.
I do wonder how nervous they were while planning that:
Are you SURE this is where they'll surface? It all looks the same out here. Perhaps I'll leave you to man the camera ...
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I've just had a second "Worth the licence fee alone" moment from this series (the first one being the thieving Adele penguin). The submarine coming up from the ice. Awesome to start with, but with a beautifully comic twist when you noticed the lump of ice sitting on top of the conning tower, just like the snow on a car roof...
That was indeed rather awesome (and funny) - perhaps cos it wasn't what you expect from a nature prog. I bet the guys that make submarine movies are cross.
I do wonder how nervous they were while planning that:
Are you SURE this is where they'll surface? It all looks the same out here. Perhaps I'll leave you to man the camera ...
I hadn't thought of that! ;D
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Turns out that some of it was "faked" :o
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'Faked' is only the word you use if you're anti BBC, I reckon.
The Life of Plants had lots of sequences filmed in greenhouses, stuff that required long time lapse sequences. No one was bothered about them.
I'm not remotely bothered myself. It's a rather small thing in the general scheme of the world...
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There's a wildlife programme made in the Antipodes coming along on the BBC; when they filmed the bats they didnt like the look of the tree they were in, so they moved them to a more photogenic tree.
I'd think that this goes on all the time - after all they are faking the music and the noises anyway, what's wrong with adding some out of context footage too.
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I'd think that this goes on all the time - after all they are faking the music and the noises anyway, what's wrong with adding some out of context footage too.
I guess the problem is the slippery slope - which is why the cameraman didn't make it upto the real polar bear den! IGMC ...
Sherioushly, this example didn't bother me much; I can see how hard the "genuine" footage would have been to get, and it wouldn't have looked any different.
However, if this sort of thing got out of hand it would impact on the credentials of the programme. A sort of suspension of disbelief is operating - once the viewer starts thinking about which bits are real, the illusion falls apart :(
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What's wrong with this kind of thing is that it changes the programme from a pure documentary into a dramatisation.
Why bother going to the Arctic at all? Why not do it all with CGI?
d.
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I'm not sure a "pure" wildlife documentary has ever existed.
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I am with Arch on this, and loved the Great Man's explanation: either the cub would have died, or the mother would have killed the cameraman. Speaking as a bird watcher...does anyone really think that the footage of, say, a lemming nervously twitching its whiskers, and that of a great grey owl grabbing dinner, are of the same lemming? Thought not.
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I can't get too bothered by it, but I do think it would have been better if they'd said "this bear, filmed in a wildlife sanctuary, is giving birth to cubs" or whatever. It's David Attenborough - we accept whatever he tells us as absolute truth!
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I can't get too bothered by it, but I do think it would have been better if they'd said "this bear, filmed in a wildlife sanctuary, is giving birth to cubs" or whatever.
This.
I'm not so naive that I don't know this kind of thing goes on all the time, but I do wonder why it goes on. What's wrong with telling the truth? "We couldn't get a shot of this happening in the wild, but here's what it looks like..."
Austin Stevens was mentioned upthread and, tbh, I don't even regard his programmes as documentaries at all. But I expect higher standards from Attenborough.
d.
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When Constable painted his picture of Hadleigh Castle, he deliberately put Leigh Church in the wrong place. And he distorted the ruin to make it look more dramatic.
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Why bother going to the Arctic at all? Why not do it all with CGI?
Because you still get to see polar bear cubs (awwww!) for real. Real den, real mum, real cubs. The den's just in a zoo.
As far as I can tell, this is just trollbait to get that certain subset of the population who go "editing! music! it's not PURE!" whenever they see wildlife telly. Presumably this group want to see a lot of waiting and ugly "nearly got it" footage. ::-)
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They could go easier on the music, now that you mention it ...
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As far as I can tell, this is just trollbait to get that certain subset of the population who go "editing! music! it's not PURE!" whenever they see wildlife telly.
I also wonder how much of the 'outrage' (I think it was big in the tabloids like the Mail and Mirror) is because of the 'environmentalist' angle of the Frozen Planet series - even though, actually, it's been pretty factual and balanced. They weren't up in arms over the time-lapse sequences in the Life of Plants. The cynic in me wonders if it's a way to try and undermine the credibility of the whole series, so that the masses can disregard any environmental message that crops up.
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The DG reckons it's linked to the BBC's Leveson enquiry coverage.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/dec/13/frozen-planet-bbc-leveson?newsfeed=true
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All the trickery doesn't bother me in the slightest and I don't notice the music.
One thing, though, that I would like to see would be the Northern Nights in real time. Every time (and I mean every time) they show them they're speeded up.
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All the trickery doesn't bother me in the slightest and I don't notice the music.
One thing, though, that I would like to see would be the Northern Nights in real time. Every time (and I mean every time) they show them they're speeded up.
I've never seen the Northern Lights, and would love to, because I simply can't believe in them on telly. I have no idea if they are speeded up (I'll take your word for it), but they are the one thing I've never been able to see without thinking 'Nah, that must be an effect'.
I suspect this means if I ever do see them, they will blow my mind.