The Grumble Thread - No energy for a full on rant.

[Beardy]

As part of getting to know someone I might get around to asking about their origins, but id be unlikely to ask someone I’d just met, even in a work context. Ditto whether they’ve got children or if they’re married. I’m just not that interested in people I suppose, not unless I’m working with them for a while and I’m getting to know them anyway.

[Polar Bear]

It has never really crossed my mind to ask folk where they are from though I recall that sometimes in a social group context such information has been shared amongst the group.  Likewise I cannot recall being asked it much but when I am I tend to say the name of the town where I currently reside, Rugby.

This debate has caused me to think about this and I would say that I am asked this question mostly by a certain category of person.  This might explain to me the initial question from Lady Susan Hussey but does not explain nor excuse the follow up questions or the actual hands on moving of hair.  I see this behaviour in an altogether more sinister and controlling manner.

[Pickled Onion]

As part of getting to know someone I might get around to asking about their origins, but id be unlikely to ask someone I’d just met, even in a work context. Ditto whether they’ve got children or if they’re married. I’m just not that interested in people I suppose, not unless I’m working with them for a while and I’m getting to know them anyway.

Another can of worms. Is it a fairly normal question to prompt conversation (people with kids often like to talk about them) or does it carry the subtext "are you gay?"

[perpetual dan]

As part of getting to know someone I might get around to asking about their origins, but id be unlikely to ask someone I’d just met, even in a work context. Ditto whether they’ve got children or if they’re married. I’m just not that interested in people I suppose, not unless I’m working with them for a while and I’m getting to know them anyway.

As part of getting to know someone is the key, I think. At work where we’re from (all over), partners (no, not all straight), kids, politics, education etc have all been topics. But over time, within a group, with established trust. Not as an opening gambit towards an individual who is likely to be different to me.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I'll ask people where they're from if I think the answer might be relevant or, more commonly, interesting. A couple of months ago on a train journey I got talking to a woman sat at the same table – we have similar-ish work, have both done taught TEFL and various other things to sustain a conversation – and she had a curious accent, with southern and northern elements but nothing at all like, say, Birmingham. Turned out the answer was Nottingham, which of course made me think of ian's frequent comments about that accent.

I can't imagine a situation in which it's acceptable to move someone's hair unless you're cutting it, dyeing it or similar. Occasionally it would be a nice power to have though; I remember an occasion in India during a break at work when a woman with Classical South Indian Beauty Standard hair (straight, jet black, very long) suddenly turned round and the ends of her hair went in my cup of tea.  Well, I'd drunk most of it at least.

[Flite]

I had no idea that interested questions about folks lives was such a sensitive issue, but there isn't a lot of open diversity in our area, and I suspect folks have grown thicker skins.

whether they’ve got children or if they’re married

I wouldn't ask that these days, but I do sometimes ask if someone has family living nearby.
It's a fairly open question, and so far no-one has reacted badly.
In this weather, asking if folks had a difficult journey to work is pretty reliable as a conversation opener.

It's safer to talk about your pets....

[MikeFromLFE]

Three 'where are you from' situations in my life come to mind.

In my volunteering job on the canal I'll frequently ask boaters "Where's home for you?" - which avoids 'where are you from? - three miles thataway last night' conversations.

Restaurant serving staff - I've been known to say "that's a great accent, Where's it from?" - doesn't seem to raise any hackles, and starts a conversation.

Lastly - here in Leicester, possibly because we are such a diverse area - it's not seen as an issue (that anyone has mentioned to me) to ask "Where's your family from?" once you are on more than nodding acquaintance with someone. With Ugandan, Kenyan, Indian and other Asian backgrounds living here (among many others) it can be a real joy to hear some of the stories families have.

[Mrs Pingu]

My Wiser central heating system has 2 'smart modes:
Eco - which is suppose to use an algorithm to work out the heat capacity of your home to decide whether it can turn the heating off earlier than scheduled to save energy (I think)
Comfort - which seems to do the same sort of thing but works out how long it takes your home to get up to temperature and turns the heating on earlier so that it's at your desired temperature at the scheduled 'on' time, rather than just starting heating at that time.

So fine, I decided to just turn 'Eco' mode on so that it decides when to turn off.
Except there seems to be a bug and it's either running Comfort mode or it's just turning on randomly.
Which is bloody annoying because when the heating comes on Pumpkin thinks it's breakfast time.
Cue me getting a load of pointy claws poked in my face at 0415 the other morning.

Guess I'll be turning that off.

[ian]

I think that if you're used to travelling or working in a diverse environment, it's a normal question. I work with a diverse company with people from a lot of places and backgrounds. There's a lot of cultural differences too – in Africa and Asia people are very to the point with questions that we wouldn't consider asking in the UK.

That said, even in south London, there was a lot of diversity – my neighbours were a Windrush-generation extended family that spanned the UK to Florida, next door but one, gin-dispensing Ugandans, further down a couple from Hong Kong, etc. (on that street, out of twelve houses, only two were white British). Everyone had a story.

[Hot Flatus]

Were any of them from Hackney?

Again, let's refocus back on what the issue was because it wasn't about asking somebody from a foreign country where they were from. It was about refusing to accept that a British-born British person was from Britain.

I would say that I work in a fairly diverse environment. There are, after all, 42 different languages spoken, but I don't think I'll be blasting around saying "but where are you really from?" any time soon.

[ian]

I'm not sure anyone is actually arguing with that.

Mind you, if I came from Hackney, I'd keep quiet about it.

[Hot Flatus]

What's the matter with Hackney? Don't you like sourdough pizza and jazz?

I'm not sure anyone is actually arguing with that.

There has certainly been a concerted effort (in media, social and otherwise) to reframe the actual occurrence to fit in with the readership's own personal bigotries.

It's an awkward one, because I too am fascinated by other people's cultures and it is largely what drove me to visit 50+ countries. But I'm also aware that unsolicited enquiry may not be read in the way intended, in the context of UK residents facing media driven hostility.

[ian]

I think, in all honesty, most of the population think the accused is batty, old posh lady who escaped from the royal attic when Liz mark 2 popped her clogs (though, I don't believe she's told her side of the encounter, but it seems a safe bet).

Anyway, other than the Tory backbenches and their benighted constituents, thankfully many of us appreciate the fact that it's 2023 and we're a multicultural society.

[Kim]

I think, in all honesty, most of the population think the accused is batty, old posh lady who escaped from the royal attic when Liz mark 2 popped her clogs (though, I don't believe she's told her side of the encounter, but it seems a safe bet).

That was my assumption, but I often have to remind myself that the royals are a lot more choreographed than we tend to assume:  I reckon it's entirely possible that it was an engineered racist gaffe (in the Philip style) in order to generate news and appeal to the gammonariat.

But mostly, I don't care.  Nobody deserves to be subject to racism, but if you're meeting geriatric royalty it is something of an occupational hazard.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I think Pickled Onion's take on it was a bit wider though and felt to be a bit more impactful on him personally, as demonstrated by the other story he linked to.

[andrewc]

As a precaution against to possibility of winter power cuts my parents have ordered a calor gas heater.... which hasn't arrived yet. 


Phoning around it appears that 15kg butane cylinders are in short supply, with some places only swapping cylinders for existing customers & not issuing new ones. £40 deposit & £50 per refill as well. 

[Mrs Pingu]

Try your local Faceache or Gumtree or whatever group. Our friends got a cylinder that way.

[Polar Bear]

I think, in all honesty, most of the population think the accused is batty, old posh lady who escaped from the royal attic when Liz mark 2 popped her clogs (though, I don't believe she's told her side of the encounter, but it seems a safe bet).

Anyway, other than the Tory backbenches and their benighted constituents, thankfully many of us appreciate the fact that it's 2023 and we're a multicultural society.

Are you the time traveller who is telling their story in riddles in the pages of The Scum?

I still haven't escaped 2022 myself.  🤔😉

[Pickled Onion]

Try your local Faceache or Gumtree or whatever group. Our friends got a cylinder that way.

Oh fuck please don't. Or at least be very very careful about the provenance of it. The only reason people aren't stealing them off boats &etc. is because they are quite difficult to sell on.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Try your local Faceache or Gumtree or whatever group. Our friends got a cylinder that way.

Oh fuck please don't. Or at least be very very careful about the provenance of it. The only reason people aren't stealing them off boats &etc. is because they are quite difficult to sell on.

I think it is fine if they are being given away.

Quite a few people here have old cylinders that they can't afford to refill. No proof of purchase or missing logos, so they can't get a deposit back (well, there didn't used to be one yonks ago). So they give them away.

[Pickled Onion]

I think Pickled Onion's take on it was a bit wider though and felt to be a bit more impactful on him personally, as demonstrated by the other story he linked to.

Yes.

Obviously the "really" question is offensive regardless of context or even race, it's basically "are you lying to me?", the race element makes it 100 times worse.

I was a little surprised at both the reaction of my breakfast companion, and the linked article, where it seems you shouldn't ask a person where they're from if they're black. I am upset by the fact one should discriminate - so it's fine to ask someone white with a northern accent where they're from and get the answer "Bradford", but not someone non-white where the answer is the same.

Reading through the replies, it seems this is a very British problem, and is clearly due to the number of racist bigots we still have, so that people come to see the question as hostile through constant repetition.

As Flatus says

It's an awkward one, because I too am fascinated by other people's cultures and it is largely what drove me to visit 50+ countries. But I'm also aware that unsolicited enquiry may not be read in the way intended, in the context of UK residents facing media driven hostility.

Most people everywhere you go are interested where you come from, and are quite happy to reciprocate, being either proud of where they were born or grew up or of their ancestry and will be keen to talk about it. It seems that in Britain there are a lot of people who despite being British feel they are not accepted as British. That may be media driven hostility, or the media reflecting attitudes (certainly not attitudes of circles I am in contact with) but either way it is sad and concerning.

[Pickled Onion]

Try your local Faceache or Gumtree or whatever group. Our friends got a cylinder that way.

Oh fuck please don't. Or at least be very very careful about the provenance of it. The only reason people aren't stealing them off boats &etc. is because they are quite difficult to sell on.

I think it is fine if they are being given away.

Quite a few people here have old cylinders that they can't afford to refill. No proof of purchase or missing logos, so they can't get a deposit back (well, there didn't used to be one yonks ago). So they give them away.

GPWM, I read that as being sold. Like cheap bikes on those platforms.

[Beardy]

I can’t remember where I put the reports of my leaking toilet, but I’ll continue here only because I CBA to really rant about it.

I _think_ I’ve diagnosed the issue to a failure of manufacture with a molding that hasn’t been properly glazed in within the innards of the toilet basin. This is allowing a minor, but persistent, leak between the flush pipe inlet and the double walled portion of the ‘frame’ of the toilet. I say t_think_ because the toilet is one of those fancy back-to-wall types that is firmly affixed in place, with the suspected fault deep within the fabric of the construction and diagnostics have been with a newly purchased endoscope and strategically placed fluorescent dye stuff.

I suspect that this has been an issue since it was installed new, but because the plumbers were a bit dim and the installation a bit dodgy, the leak went undetected and the water soaked into the floor. In replacing the now rotted floor with a properly installed tile I’ve left the water nowhere to go and so it’s become obvious. The only proper so.union I can see is to replace the toilet bowl which is not a popular choice 10 days before a full family Christmas and 5 days before they all start descending on us.

Pah!

[mrcharly-YHT]

If you can get to the join and open it up, push loads of Fernox LX in there (it is a non-curing silicone).

[Cudzoziemiec]

I think Pickled Onion's take on it was a bit wider though and felt to be a bit more impactful on him personally, as demonstrated by the other story he linked to.

Yes.

Obviously the "really" question is offensive regardless of context or even race, it's basically "are you lying to me?", the race element makes it 100 times worse.

I was a little surprised at both the reaction of my breakfast companion, and the linked article, where it seems you shouldn't ask a person where they're from if they're black. I am upset by the fact one should discriminate - so it's fine to ask someone white with a northern accent where they're from and get the answer "Bradford", but not someone non-white where the answer is the same.

I'm not sure where you get that from. The palace problem was the "really" question. The other article you linked to https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/01/where-are-you-from-hard-question-to-answer
is someone saying how difficult it is for them to decide what answer to give, because they've moved around so much.