Alternatives to panniers and bike luggage

[fruitcake]

I've used panniers on a rear rack for years, owned various sets (and various bikes), some good and some not so good, and it strikes me that... panniers are damned expensive. Sure, they're a good way to carry stuff, but they're expensive.

In an ideal world, racks on bikes would be designed to take a normal bag, the kind that we all own already, the kind that is a quarter the price of a pannier. Economies of scale dictate that a well made bag that is not a pannier is going to be far less expensive to produce (per bag) than one that can only be sold to cyclists.

Which got me wondering, what would a 'rack' for a normal bag actually look like? Might it be a basket above the rear wheel? Would that require a bike with wheels smaller than 700C, to give the required stability? And might it be worth investing in such a bike for riding 10 miles to work, and for local errands, rather than buying a set of good quality panniers?

[andrew_s]

Bike baskets do exist, and aren't that rare

Commonest is a semi-permanent fixture to the top of a rack
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/100-back-pannier-bike-basket-13l/_/R-p-171294 (£20)
There are also ones that are quick-release
https://bobbinbikes.com/products/rack-basket-silver

or for the front
https://bobbinbikes.com/products/cambridge-basket

There are also pannier style side-fixing ones,
https://www.bricklanebikes.co.uk/wald-520-twin-carrier-basket-black
some collapsible
https://tokyobike.co.uk/products/wald-wald-rear-folding-basket
https://www.bricklanebikes.co.uk/wald-582-folding-basket-white

[quixoticgeek]

I've used panniers on a rear rack for years, owned various sets (and various bikes), some good and some not so good, and it strikes that... panniers are damned expensive. Sure, they're a good way t carry stuff, but they're expensive. In an ideal world, racks on bikes would be designed to take a normal bag, the kind that we all own already, the kind that is a quarter the price of a pannier. Economies of scale dictate that a well made bag that is not a pannier is going to be far less expensive to produce (per bag) than one that can only be sold to cyclists.

Which got me wondering, what would a 'rack' for a normal bag actually look like? Would it in fact be a basket above the rear wheel? Would that require a bike with wheels smaller than 700C, to give the required stability? And might it be worth investing in such a bike for riding 10 miles to work, and for local errands, rather than buying a set of good quality panniers?

Most Dutch people seem to approach this by putting a crate on the front rack, and they just dump their backpack or hand bag in that and ride off.

J

[Cudzoziemiec]

A lot of people use a plain ordinary supermarket basket bolted onto a rear or a front "porteur". For more capacity than a basket, use a council recycling crate.

Ed: I can't find the capacity of the recycling crates, but you can get a new one from the council for £2.50. At least you can here; your council might be more or less generous. This compares to around £4 (plus delivery presumably) to buy a brand new supermarket basket (or, erm, free from the supermarket of your choice!).

[Kim]

There's a rather good basket that fits the Racktime racks with their quick-release (and optionally lockable) stuff-on-top-of-your-rear-rack mechanism^[1].  Has a carry handle and little feet so it's stable on a flat surface when not mated to the rack.  Great for shpping, or carting your cycling paraphernalia out to the communal bike sheds.

Similarly, you can buy the clicks-onto-the-rack part and fit it to the underside of whatever bag/box/crate/etc takes your fancy.


_{[1] Notable because the only hardware on the rack itself is a set of holes in standard positions, so it's not adding weight/bulk/complexity when not in use.}

[Cudzoziemiec]

I see from the ads that baskets are about 20-25 litres, so only equal to one pannier – not surprisingly.

[Tod28]

I use something like these https://www.mandarincycles.co.uk/product-page/oxford-wire-rear-pannier-basket or something like them. Can be lifted off to go round the shops to not over purchase capacity. Other makes/vendors are available.

[Dickyelsdon]

Ive used a few things in place of a pannier;

Most handy was a folding metal basket pannier.  Folding meant it kept out the way but was there when you needed it, but a bit heavy and not huge capacity.  THere are lots out there of varying quality.

More recently ive bought a Specialized Coolcave, a terrible name for what is a 19L plastic bucket with pannier fixings.  I leave this on the bike (zip tie through the mounts to the rack to prevent theft) and use it to carry shopping bags home. Also good for a rucksack (when not raining as it has no lid, but does keep tyre spray off things unlike the basket). Other alternatives will exist, but i got this cheap enough and in a colour matching my bike (Fjällräven, the overpriced style outdoor brand, did a colaboration with Spesh making different colours to black)
https://www.specializedconceptstore.co.uk/product/127611/2022-coolcave-pannier/
https://www.cyclestore.co.uk/specialized-fj%C3%A4llr%C3%A4ven_coolcave_pannier_19_litre-ID_88105?opt=195520&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAoKeuBhCoARIsAB4WxtcF0TnVT_KYwg4IbajcSON1bRwpfGf4vOe3UaJXAmzAexMdZZJLCPYaAl1pEALw_wcB


Both were always on the bike paired with a normal (ortlieb) pannier on the other side, so you dont need to carry 2 panniers around which was my biggest bugbear of just using 2 panniers.

[cycleman]

Cycle trailer maybe?

[L CC]

There's a rather good basket that fits the Racktime racks with their quick-release (and optionally lockable) stuff-on-top-of-your-rear-rack mechanism^[1].  Has a carry handle and little feet so it's stable on a flat surface when not mated to the rack.  Great for shpping, or carting your cycling paraphernalia out to the communal bike sheds.

Similarly, you can buy the clicks-onto-the-rack part and fit it to the underside of whatever bag/box/crate/etc takes your fancy.


_{[1] Notable because the only hardware on the rack itself is a set of holes in standard positions, so it's not adding weight/bulk/complexity when not in use.}

Interesting. Racktime is the rack supplier on my e-bike, I thought it was some USAnian thing. I quite fancy a basket. It's not like I'm going either lightweight or aero on the commuter.

[Afasoas]

Cycle trailer maybe?

Or a bike with a smaller front wheel?
https://omniumcargo.com/mini/

[lissotriton]

Or more rigid panniers, eg Velobin. Though not exactly cheap. https://velobin.com/
Could leave them attached to the bike, and just chuck whatever bag you like inside.

[quixoticgeek]

Cycle trailer maybe?

Or a bike with a smaller front wheel?
https://omniumcargo.com/mini/

Or the tern gsd...

https://www.ternbicycles.com/en/bikes/472/gsd

J

[Afasoas]

I was thinking over this - and I do recall at one point using a cheap cycle trailer bought from eBay and cycling around with a large holdall strapped to it.
The trailer was cheaper than most sets of panniers and the trailer - aside from being heavy - didn't give me any problems, it just worked.

Bit of a bind finding places to lock the ensemble up at times. And also ruled out some cycle farcilitiesspecific infrastructure.

[RichForrest]

Inspired by this post (and liking the idea of not using my good panniers for shopping) I picked up a couple of 24ltr stacking tote boxes from Tesco today (£2.40 each).
Going to attach them to some old style handlebar basket brackets I have in the garden that used to hold pots of herbs on the fence.

If it works then I have two rear shopping boxes, if not I have 2 more parts/junk boxes 

[Cudzoziemiec]

Yesterday evening I met someone I know who uses a recycling crate bolted to the rear rack for his general luggage. It is actually getting on for twice as big as a supermarket basket. He said it gets a bit back-heavy when he's cycling up to the allotment with it full of compost.

[fruitcake]

More I think about this, more I reckon the key is having a large horizontal platform on which to fasten a basket or a plastic box. A trailer gives a platform with the advantage of size, a large rear rack on the bike itself has the advantage of convenience. I'm interested in developing that second option here. The largest rear rack I have (ever) seen is the steel one on the Pashley Pronto / Pashley Mailstar / Elephant Bike. That would create a sturdy platform for a crate which would remain fastened to the rack, to take any bag. 

For a long time the Pronto had differential wheel sizes - a larger rear wheel, which looks to be either 24" or 26", I haven't been able to find out yet. If it is 26", the rack could be transferred to another bike with similar seatstay geometry. 


Thinking about this rack on an early 1990s MTB.

[bhoot]

Pretty sure the Elephant has 26" back wheel. When we got ours we bought the optional front rack with both the pretty wicker basket and the functional black plastic tray. The tray has ended up permanently strapped onto the rear rack where it is extremely useful for putting shopping etc just as long as you aren't worried about someone thieving it behind your back - if I have a shopping bag with a long shoulder strap in there, the strap is dropped around the saddle. We have been known to put Ortleib panniers in there too when waterproofness is required.

[Arellcat]

The Elephant Bike/Pashley Pronto is a 24" front and 26" rear.  For luggage, I use mine in various combinations:

• My everyday satchel, or a bag of shopping, thrown in the front basket (which has an elastic cargo net over the top to stop things bouncing out, and a big rucksack cover for rain)
• Conventional separate bike panniers, or my throwover panniers
• A single luggage crate tied to the rear rack with inner tubes
• A pair of luggage crates hooked onto the rear rack for carrying bigger/heavier stuff
• Trailer for biggerer, heavierer stuff

The rear rack is a big heavy thing, and Pashley makes it in two sizes to fit the two frame sizes since it has no adjustability - but I daresay it could be made to fit another frame using P-clips or extra brackets, or a modicum of careful bending.

[fruitcake]

That's interesting. Thanks. Those links make handy illustrations.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/beqi/50688393526/
This was what I was hoping to achieve, with that rack on a vintage MTB.

I've emailed Pashley to see if they supply the rear rack as a spare part, though I now see I need to find the older rack designed for a 26" rear wheel not their current model which is for 24".

Out of interest, how does the Pronto ride with the single tub on top of the rear rack? I read that they are heavy but does the frame flex much when you're climbing? I have a 10 mile commute with a moderate hill in the middle, and I'm assuming the Pronto is unsuitable and that a bike with chunkier stays would work better. 

[Cudzoziemiec]

• A pair of luggage crates hooked onto the rear rack for carrying bigger/heavier stuff

Baskets as panniers! Great idea, even if (or because) tautologous.

[wooger]

it strikes me that... panniers are damned expensive.

I'm not sure I agree, pretty sure my Ortlieb back rollers were 80 quid for 2... My waterproof rucksack that I often commute with was certainly far more expensive.

[Dickyelsdon]

it strikes me that... panniers are damned expensive.

I'm not sure I agree, pretty sure my Ortlieb back rollers were 80 quid for 2... My waterproof rucksack that I often commute with was certainly far more expensive.

Emphasis on the were.

Back rollers are typically 120 a pair now, discounted.  RRP 149 pounds (does this forum not have a pound sign!? my keyboard has gone all odd)
City rollers can be had for 100, but they are not as good IMO.

[bhoot]

Think of Ortleibs as a long term investment! Still using a pair purchased in 1994....(when the only colours were green and black I think, we have green)

[fruitcake]

Sure, the conventional wisdom has always been 'buy panniers', and I've bought panniers in the past, and it's now time for me to spend some money again.

On economic grounds, using a normal bag on an extra large rack is the better solution: a normal bag costs me nothing because I already own one, and a rear carrier of the kind pictured above on that blue Pashley Pronto should outlast a bag. So you could say that the budget for the rack I want is £120.

If that didn't work, I'd buy a bike with a huge rear rack. Yuba have a wide range now. This one is the entry level: