What is the benefit of getting a longer distance, is it just greater chance of a place through earlier entry, or does it also give access to different starting slots for example, and all those who are able to enter early will get a better start time?
If we just wanted to make sure we get in shoud a 300 do it?
The advice from ACP to the delegates at the 2018 presentation was that you should aim to complete the longest possible BRM in 2018 in order to be sure of being able to pre-register. (The pre-registration dates are at http://www.aukweb.net/events/pbp/). They commented that since 2015 there has been a massive growth in randonneuring (what we call audax) around the world, and their back-of-the-fag-packet calculation was that:
a) if you do not ride any BRMs this season - and therefore are unable to pre-register, you are unlikely to get a place.
b) the available places are unlikely to sell out on the first two pre-registration slots, they think that 400km ought to be sufficient - but no guarantees.
Does a 400km Arrow (which is ACP validated) count?
ah bugger, well best I've got is a 300 then, but I am sure that will be good enough (I am less fussed about PBP than I was about LEL which turned into a must ride!)I was exactly this position in 2015 - I didn't realise until early that year that my 2014 York Arrow 400 didn't count and I had to rely on a 300.
ah bugger, well best I've got is a 300 then, but I am sure that will be good enough (I am less fussed about PBP than I was about LEL which turned into a must ride!)I was exactly this position in 2015 - I didn't realise until early that year that my 2014 York Arrow 400 didn't count and I had to rely on a 300.
I got a place at PBP without any problem at all, and I got my first choice start time (though I did want to go of at the back of the 90 hr group which for some reasons isn't popular).
though I did want to go of at the back of the 90 hr group which for some reasons isn't popular).
Depends on your expectations.that was my 2015 experience exactly. Id do the same again, it provides for a civilized afternoon finish on the final day to finish and I had the morale boosting experience of overtaking loads of people!
My one PBP (2011) was right at the back of the 90h group and I had a blast (finishing with just 2h to spare). I was never without food, got a bed when I needed one and didn't know any better. If the food at a control was shit I just stopped at a boulangerie/cafe in a nearby town/village and got something to eat (and my French is terrible). I can't remember any controls that ran out of food, there was always something.
though I did want to go of at the back of the 90 hr group which for some reasons isn't popular).
Why do you think that is? Does the food run out like it did on LEL, or do you end up catching the bulge for a significant part of the ride?
People seem to like queueing in the afternoon August sun before the start. I was happier to sit in the shade and watch the earlier starters, stay cool and generally conserve energy.
What's the spread of start times for the 90hr bunch? I can see from the info on the auk website that it starts at 6pm. What's the latest start time?
And is the time limit based on your actual start time or is it based on a start time of 6pm for all 90hr riders?
I presume brevets ridden in September count as pre qualifiers? Cant quite remember when the new year starts.
Yes, so Flatlands Reversed would count etc.as would borders of belgium
The amount of riders doing 600 is staggering, at least in the Netherlands, 3 600s on the calender, the amount of riders on both already held is the same as we usually had for all 600s in a year. I've seen footage of well over 100 riders starting a 600 in the Phillipines. Ayone else heard of more countries with a massive increas in 600k riders?
If that's the case then qualification with only a 300 would be very risky and a 600 a very good idea.
The amount of riders doing 600 is staggering, at least in the Netherlands, 3 600s on the calender, the amount of riders on both already held is the same as we usually had for all 600s in a year. I've seen footage of well over 100 riders starting a 600 in the Phillipines. Ayone else heard of more countries with a massive increas in 600k riders?
If that's the case then qualification with only a 300 would be very risky and a 600 a very good idea.
Maybe time to petition for another 600 to be run in .nl in October?
J
I may have just noticed an interesting quirk of Aukweb (or I'm plain wrong!):
My Results doesn't specify wot events are BRM (nor does My Calendar actually)
Neither do most of the results lists pages that I've clicked to.
I may have just noticed an interesting quirk of Aukweb (or I'm plain wrong!):I think you're just plain wrong. ;)
My Results doesn't specify wot events are BRM (nor does My Calendar actually)
Neither do most of the results lists pages that I've clicked to.
Yes, while the main paris-brest-paris.org website feels very much "under construction", the registration site (https://inscription.paris-brest-paris.org/) worked very well. It's only that 1200+km events like LEL are not yet in the system (as indicated), and neither are the Flèches Vélocio (Arrows).
Pre-registration opens on Monday 14, anyone know whether that is at 00:00 (ie Sunday night)?
The times in the Brevet Card aren't linear either. ACP front loads the first 400 and 600 and then relaxes things on the way back.Off topic but roughly how much front loading is there? What was the difference in time between P>B and B>P (in 2015)?
Put another way, you don't get 45h to get to Brest, but you'll always get the full 90h to get back to Paris. If I can be bothered I'll dig out my PBP Brevet Card and have a look at the distances/times.
About 43h to get to Brest IIRC in 2011.For 90 time limit, drawing on your 2015 data and adjusting for distance ratio:
This link has some links to definitive info:
https://www.bikeforums.net/long-distance-competition-ultracycling-randonneuring-endurance-cycling/996491-2015-pbp-control-times.html
Obviously it'll all be slightly different in 2019 with the different route and distance because of the different start location.
2015 90 hour start:-
For an 18:00 start Sunday, Brest (618km) control closed Tuesday 13:19. That's 43h19m.
It isn't that simple. The minimum average varies quite a bit more on the return leg and ACP individually adjusts control times from their formulas anyway.Thank you for that additional insight.
https://rusa.org/octime_rm.html
Those average speeds will give you incorrect intermediate control times between Paris and Brest and (to a greater extent) between Brest and Paris.I'm sure you're 'correct' if 'incorrect' means more than 20 minutes 'wrong'. When you say 'incorrect' I hear an echo of @QuixoticGeek's post about UTC not being the same as GMT because of their different treatment of leap seconds.
The ACP can be a bit lenient if you're 'out of time' at an intermediate control. In 2015 I was 15 minutes out of time in Dreux and finished with 39 minutes in hand. Neither in Dreux nor in Paris the controllers commented this.
The ACP can be a bit lenient if you're 'out of time' at an intermediate control."the ACP" as a whole, or specifically the organisation of PBP? Just curious if the Norwegians turn out to be more Catholic than the pope so to speak :P
The ACP can be a bit lenient if you're 'out of time' at an intermediate control. In 2015 I was 15 minutes out of time in Dreux and finished with 39 minutes in hand. Neither in Dreux nor in Paris the controllers commented this.
Yeah - I had thought I'd have more time for sleep at Fougeres but when I got there around 1am I checked the control times and Villaines was around 8am. So I slept for an hour and then pushed on. I wasn't too pushed for time, I stopped at two crepe stalls and a cafe that was open all night in Ambrieres-les-Vallees. I have visited that cafe in 07, 11 and 15 now. It was during the day in 07, I was riding with some Danish group who were very well organised and stopped there for coffee and coke. Again in 11, the owner seemed quite grumpy that day, we stopped for coffee - I think he was trying to set up for the later serving. On the 80h ride, I expected nothing - but it was ablaze with light at 4am. The owner was not grumpy but perhaps this explains him being grumpy in 2011. It was quite something, they had food for cyclists and mattresses set up for a sleep, and would not accept a tip.
One of the big differences between 80h and 90h (if near the limits) is you see a different side of the event at different times - I had never seen Loudeac in daylight until 2015. Or the hills west of there, which were a surprise despite having been there twice before!
In the end I had enough time for some sleep in the morning at Villaines, and pushed on knowing that 16+h to Paris should be easy. However I had a sore throat as I had caught the cold that was going round. I finished with >3h in hand so it was good and much more time in hand than I'd ever had on a 90h start.
1000km control was 64h in the 80h group in 2015. Nearly caught me out.A rough check of the 80 hour 2015 control closing time data (shared here) suggests 17kph out to Brest (36.5 hours), 13.8kph for the 381km back to Villaines (64 hours) and 13.8kph to the finish - again a consistent speed required all the way back.
The ACP can be a bit lenient if you're 'out of time' at an intermediate control."the ACP" as a whole, or specifically the organisation of PBP? Just curious if the Norwegians turn out to be more Catholic than the pope so to speak :P
"a bit lenient" is rather vague and probably depends on the controller, so I'll aim to be well within the intermediate closing times. But if you are (really) out of time, are you allowed to continue, or do they take in your brevet card and send you back packing?