Cops on High Holborn

[Regulator]

There are police officers at the junction outside our offices (junction of High Holborn and Chancery Lane) stopping cyclists who are jumping red lights.

I was outside, having a fag and watching them at their work.  They were pulling over the cyclists but, as I watched, two black cabs jumped red lights - and the officers ignored them.

I pointed their oversight out to them - and was less than politely told to go away.  I have got their numbers and will be raising some concerns with the Professional Standards Directorate.

I don't have a problem with RLJing cyclists being done - but evenhandedness is necessary.

[Fi]

I wonder if they'll catch any of the people who cycle the wrong way down Chancery Lane while they're at it!   

[Regulator]

The police have now gone - and the RLJing by vehicles is back to normal levels.  Due to a misphasing of the traffic lights, there is quite a long gap between red one way and green the other, which encourages drivers to jump the lights.

Also, the 'parking in the bus lane' is back to normal... 

[Fi]

I haven't worked up there since last August and I'd forgotten about the bus lane parkers, and the stinky waste van that clogged up the road near the junction with Kingsway and made the bendy buses swing about more dangerously than usual.   I once watched a unicylist negotiating that lot, he was wobbling around very badly, but that just seemed to keep everyone away from it.    Can't say I miss it!

[Regulator]

I was outside, having a fag and watching them at their work. 

Think yourself lucky you didn't get done for lewd behaviour 



I'll get me coat...

***Slaps Mr P with a wet haddock***

[Greenbank]

What if they were doing motor vehicles one day and cycles the next? In other words, could this be a case of micro vs macro viewpoints?

And the Police rarely react well to being told how to do their job.

[Spikey]

Having been hit from behind twice by cyclists I'm all in favour of police catching these menaces. On the first occaision it was apparently my fault for stopping at a red light, while on the second ocaision the other cyclist blamed his (obviously not working) front brake! Having said this, RLJ cylists pose significantly lower risks to other road users than many drivers.

[Regulator]

What if they were doing motor vehicles one day and cycles the next? In other words, could this be a case of micro vs macro viewpoints?

And the Police rarely react well to being told how to do their job.

Errr..... no.  No sign of them today - and there would have been no reason to try and catch cars on a Sunday, when High Holborn is dead as a dodo.

[Greenbank]

What if they were doing motor vehicles one day and cycles the next? In other words, could this be a case of micro vs macro viewpoints?

And the Police rarely react well to being told how to do their job.

Errr..... no.  No sign of them today - and there would have been no reason to try and catch cars on a Sunday, when High Holborn is dead as a dodo.

My point was that you may not be able to see the bigger picture. What if there were another set of Police specifically targetting cars, but letting cycles go, at another junction on the same day? Or they'll be back a different day just to target drivers using mobile phones? If there were then I'm sure there'd be several irate motorists telling the Police that they should be stopping the bikes too.

[Wendy]

My point was that you may not be able to see the bigger picture. What if there were another set of Police specifically targetting cars, but letting cycles go, at another junction on the same day? Or they'll be back a different day just to target drivers using mobile phones? If there were then I'm sure there'd be several irate motorists telling the Police that they should be stopping the bikes too.

I understood your point the first time round, and although it's plausible, I somehow don't believe this is the case.  I think it's a targeted approach, and the unfairness of this, if true, offends me.

[Greenbank]

I think it's a targeted approach, and the unfairness of this, if true, offends me.

Sounds like we are criticising the Police for not targeting RLJing cyclists, and when they try and redress the balance we criticise them for picking on RLJing cyclists and ignoring RLJing motor vehicles.

The words "rock" and "hard place" spring to mind.

[Regulator]

I think it's a targeted approach, and the unfairness of this, if true, offends me.

Sounds like we are criticising the Police for not targeting RLJing cyclists, and when they try and redress the balance we criticise them for picking on RLJing cyclists and ignoring RLJing motor vehicles.

The words "rock" and "hard place" spring to mind.

What I am arguing for is that they should target all RLJers, irrespective of the conveyance they are using - particularly when it happens in front of them.

[Wendy]

I think it's a targeted approach, and the unfairness of this, if true, offends me.

Sounds like we are criticising the Police for not targeting RLJing cyclists, and when they try and redress the balance we criticise them for picking on RLJing cyclists and ignoring RLJing motor vehicles.

The words "rock" and "hard place" spring to mind.

I think that's misinterpreting my position.  What I meant is that my impression is that City Police target cyclists, but largely ignore transgressions by motorists, not only in specific cases, but also generally.  I think that all RLJers should be dealt with, not just cyclists.

[Greenbank]

I was simply saying that there could be more to it than you can see. What if they were sending NIPs to registered keepers of motor vehicles based on CCTV evidence at that same junction?

I'd certainly like to think that the Police would stop and deal with any transgression regardless of what type of vehicle was involved, but they don't always work like that.

Have you ever seen the random roadside checks the Police do? They randomly pull people over and check the VED, MOT, tyres, driving license, insurance, etc. I've certainly seen cars with drivers with no seatbelt on being ignored by these checkpoints, along with people driving past holding a mobile phone to their ear, etc. They don't even pull over a share of cyclists to check that the bicycle is legal w.r.t. two independent brakes and pedal reflectors if it's after dark. It's because they're targetting a particular problem at a time.

[Wendy]

As I said before, I saw your point, and whilst the idea is plausible, I don't think it's what's happening in reality.

[clarion]

+1 to Regulator and Mikey.

All transgressors should be dealt with appropriately.

And there's no cost to being civil (but it does cost the Police in goodwill every time one of their officers is uncivil).  Customer service is a good investment.  If they were targetting motorised RLJs (by far the more dangerous), then it would be a good idea to say that.

[alan]

In essence I think that Reg. is advocating the saying

" justice should be seen to be done."

[sas]

What if they were doing motor vehicles one day and cycles the next? In other words, could this be a case of micro vs macro viewpoints?

I think its reasonable for the onus to be on the police, as a body which serves the public, to publish what they've done when it's appropriate. So have they publically reported on the numbers of people (cyclists, cars, motorbikes etc) penalised during past clampdowns? And do they seem fair?

[Regulator]

In essence I think that Reg. is advocating the saying

" justice should be seen to be done."

I woudl qualify that by saying that what I am suggesting is not only should justice be done but it must be seen to be done.

[TimO]

There is also the issue of how you stop RLJers.

For bicycles, you just need a couple of guys standing by the lights, and anyone who is stupid enough to cycle through a red light is going to get them standing in front of them.

If a car jumps a red light, and you try and stand in front of it, you'll stand a good chance of being hit, so I would guess in that situation they have another office, probably with a car parked a few hundred feet further along, who can stop the vehicle.

It probably needs a different approach to stopping different classes of vehicles.