Author Topic: Is This The End Of Retail?  (Read 65295 times)

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Is This The End Of Retail?
« Reply #100 on: 25 October, 2018, 08:55:36 pm »
I thought it had pretty much always been the case in retail.
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Jaded

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Re: Is This The End Of Retail?
« Reply #101 on: 25 October, 2018, 09:23:54 pm »
Sale and Lease-Back.

Who needs the family silver when it can be used to give the shareholders jizz-hands.
It is simpler than it looks.

Re: Is This The End Of Retail?
« Reply #102 on: 25 October, 2018, 10:22:57 pm »
M and S used to own many of their outlets and hold them on the books at original purchase price book value. Whether this is still the case or not, I don't know.
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Re: Is This The End Of Retail?
« Reply #103 on: 26 October, 2018, 08:20:56 am »
Significant - maybe - is the oft reported precursor to collapse that the retailer is attempting to renegotiate its rental agreement(s) with its landlord(s).

When did it become the thing for large companies to not own the real estate they trade from? And what particular brand of fucknugget decided it was a really jolly wheeze to sell the real estate assets so they could rent them instead?



As far as I know, it took wings in the seventies. Until then, companies of substance who could afford to, always bought their own property. Retail frequently just leases, but that's the nature of the business, they rarely have the capital reserves needed to buy. Between then and now, sale and leaseback was the order of the day to free up capital to either invest, pay back to shareholders or shore up.

Companies like M&S did build up a big portfolio (and holding without revaluation would not satisfy current regs)

Jaded

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Re: Is This The End Of Retail?
« Reply #104 on: 26 October, 2018, 10:36:08 am »
M&S did a big sale and lease back about 20 years ago, I seem to remember.
It is simpler than it looks.

Re: Is This The End Of Retail?
« Reply #105 on: 26 October, 2018, 10:43:10 am »
FWIW (not a lot) my view is that sale and leaseback is driven by the orthodoxy endemic to the short term investment driven by financial institutions, as compared to dynastic private ownership.

Beardy

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Re: Is This The End Of Retail?
« Reply #106 on: 26 October, 2018, 11:35:16 am »
Or, to put it another way, shareholder vs stakeholder. The current Shareholder economy demands that the shareholders get the best return on their holdings THIS YEAR. A stakeholder economy looks to maintain the best return on investment for everyone who has a stake in the organisation and takes into account the customers, the employees and the financial investors.
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Re: Is This The End Of Retail?
« Reply #107 on: 26 October, 2018, 12:49:47 pm »
No, not that simple. There are enough shareholders that would likely support long term strategies (Pensions, funds) and the one actually doesn't preclude the other. What is likely more significant is the way executive pay is calculated and bonuses awarded, which are typically on short term measures. Also there is a real issue of becoming diverted from your core business, so offloading things like IT and property do make sense, if done properly.


rogerzilla

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Re: Is This The End Of Retail?
« Reply #108 on: 26 October, 2018, 01:44:59 pm »
In answer to the OP, no, but it may be the beginning of the end for Philip Green.
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Re: Is This The End Of Retail?
« Reply #109 on: 26 October, 2018, 03:32:38 pm »
Fascinating subject and so many angles to approach from....re the sale and lease back, that also goes hand in hand with loading a company with debt. Bugger all to sink your teeth into if it all goes belly up.

On the OP I've sort of come round to thinking of it from the other end, as in what we might want to end up with longer term. I kind of like the global village concept with localised micro manufacture, though accept this sort of goes against the economy of scale mantra. As has been noted already in various ways, do we want to continue to encourage what we ultimately consider not desirable? More stuff, better parking, targetted tax/rate cuts, etc, though getting the online side to pay their due should still be a priority, just not specifically to help B&M ventures.

If you follow MMT(modern monetary theory) then they make a big thing about the idea of job guarantees, as in the state will always employ unused labour...I prefer a Basic Income, but same sort of concept. Or if you look at David Graebers work around 'bullshit' jobs. It's not like there's a lack of useful work that could be done, just needs the political will to pay for it.
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Torslanda

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Re: Is This The End Of Retail?
« Reply #110 on: 30 October, 2018, 05:26:22 pm »
Sports Direct have bought Evans.

I want to say something pithy and witty - I just can't right now...
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

Torslanda

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Re: Is This The End Of Retail?
« Reply #111 on: 30 October, 2018, 05:33:01 pm »
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Is This The End Of Retail?
« Reply #112 on: 30 October, 2018, 05:44:37 pm »
Sports Direct have bought Evans.

I want to say something pithy and witty - I just can't right now...
It might be one in the eye for Wiggle Reaction Cycles.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

robgul

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Re: Is This The End Of Retail?
« Reply #113 on: 30 October, 2018, 06:41:56 pm »
Sports Direct have bought Evans.

I want to say something pithy and witty - I just can't right now...
It might be one in the eye for Wiggle Reaction Cycles.

The possibly bigger issue for the LBS sector is the amount of Evans stock that Ashley will potentially push into the market at cost/below cost to turn it into cash.

Be interesting to see how separate the Evans business remains - in the way that TriUK is not obviously part of Sports Direct.

Rob

Re: Is This The End Of Retail?
« Reply #114 on: 30 October, 2018, 09:04:09 pm »
Closing half the stores though but.
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robgul

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Re: Is This The End Of Retail?
« Reply #115 on: 30 October, 2018, 10:06:31 pm »
Closing half the stores though but.

Perhaps? - that's a typical Ashley bargaining chip with landlords .... quite a few of the doomed HoF sites he acquired have had a reprieve.

That said, I can think of several Evans locations where you have to question the wisdom of opening a bike shop.

Rob

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Is This The End Of Retail?
« Reply #116 on: 31 October, 2018, 10:00:50 am »
Sports Direct have bought Evans.

I want to say something pithy and witty - I just can't right now...
It might be one in the eye for Wiggle Reaction Cycles.

The possibly bigger issue for the LBS sector is the amount of Evans stock that Ashley will potentially push into the market at cost/below cost to turn it into cash.

Be interesting to see how separate the Evans business remains - in the way that TriUK is not obviously part of Sports Direct.

Rob
Bad for LBS bike sales but perhaps bringing them more repair business as lots of low-quality neo-Evans bikes start falling apart a year after purchase?
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Torslanda

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Re: Is This The End Of Retail?
« Reply #117 on: 31 October, 2018, 12:21:13 pm »
The current situation is that $AshleyBikes fall apart at less than a year old.

They invariably cost more to repair than to replace.

LBS gets to dispose of the remains. No wonder he's a fucking billionaire . . .
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

Mr Larrington

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Re: Is This The End Of Retail?
« Reply #118 on: 31 October, 2018, 12:49:59 pm »
My grate frend Mr Sheen, who works in a branch of Cycle Surgery, has nothing good to say about Evans and will doubtless be greeting this news with a certain amount of schadenfreude.
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Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Is This The End Of Retail?
« Reply #119 on: 31 October, 2018, 01:21:29 pm »
The current situation is that $AshleyBikes fall apart at less than a year old.

They invariably cost more to repair than to replace.
Does this mean Sports Direct sell bikes? I've never seen any, hadn't realised it, but wouldn't be entirely surprised.

Quote
LBS gets to dispose of the remains. No wonder he's a fucking billionaire . . .
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Re: Is This The End Of Retail?
« Reply #120 on: 31 October, 2018, 01:29:02 pm »
I've had Pearl Izumi cycle stuff from Sports Direct but people like Castelli/Exposure wont want premium stock going into outlets.

Torslanda

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Re: Is This The End Of Retail?
« Reply #121 on: 31 October, 2018, 03:02:48 pm »
Muddy Fox and Dunlop.

Although, now I think about it, the last time we were there I can't remember seeing them...
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Is This The End Of Retail?
« Reply #122 on: 31 October, 2018, 03:07:36 pm »
Lots of Dunlop shoes in our SD but not seen any Muddy Fox bikes. Mind you, I can't remember when I last saw a Muddy Fox anywhere. But wikipedia says:
Quote
Muddyfox is a bicycle manufacturer from Basildon, Essex, England, specialising in mountain bikes and other flatbar bicycles. The company produced BMX bikes in the 1980s before a slump in the market forced them to switch to mountain bike production. The company has been a brand of Universal Cycles since 2001,[1] itself since 2009 a majority-owned subsidiary of Sports Direct,[2] and produces Silver Fox bicycles for bigbox retailers such as Argos.
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Re: Is This The End Of Retail?
« Reply #123 on: 31 October, 2018, 03:17:23 pm »
They had a load of BSOs (mostly kid sized) outside Sports D*rect when I walked past on Saturday on the way to Decathlon. How anyone can expect a "bicycle" that costs £49.95 new to last beyond next week (especially in the hands of the average 6yo) I don't know.
They sell Muddy Fox road and MTB shoes as well (I remember seeing them all over eBay when I was looking back in January).

Torslanda

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VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.