Cyclists with super bright death ray front lights

[ABlipInContinuity]

I think lighting enough to be seen by is adequate where there is street lighting, take for example a Cateye EL-530 or two. I can't see the point in lights that are painfully bright. I've seen a few oncoming cyclists (at night) with them angled to highly - and they are not only a nuisance to motorists, they are a nuisance to other cyclists too!

If your average moton doesn't see an EL-530, all anything super-bright and death ray like is going to do is dazzle or panic them, possibly resulting in erratic or unpredictable driving. Or, if the motorist is so minded, give them something to drive at.

Don't get me wrong, on an unlit road, I'm all for having something brighter to see by.

[GruB]

From my experience, all several thousand miles of it, death rays are better than pissant lights.

[Sergeant Pluck]

I can only agree with you partly: I concur that cyclists with badly aimed lights are a pain in the arse.

But on urban roads the motons definitely improve when the Dinotte or Fenix is on epileptic mode, especially in one particular situation: when they are debating whether it'll be OK to drive out of a side road right in front of you. And they still have that effect when aimed quite low.

[ABlipInContinuity]

Nearly any LED >£15 with fresh batteries is capable of being piercingly bright. And I can spot them a mile off, literally. Hardly call them "pissant". The white LEDs that shine green or yellow are a different matter, but adding to my original point:

Is it not a bit like an arms race? A bit like Day Running Lights - shouldn't we be conditioning motorists to look out for vulnerable road users who are adequately lit [at night] instead of only noticing the ones with the death rays?

[Wascally Weasel]

I have noticed moton behaviour modification in the dark or wet from even my twin EL530s.  I'm therefore all in favour of the Death Star good lights on bikes.

[ABlipInContinuity]

I have noticed moton behaviour modification in the dark or wet from even my twin EL530s.  I'm therefore all in favour of the Death Star good lights on bikes.

Sort of what I'm getting at really, I think there's a happy medium.

I've just noticed a few cyclists on the last few weeks with really dazzling lights - more like the sort you would use off road. I suppose they are less of a problem if they are angled downwards, or full power reserved for when it appears like you haven't been seen. - This is what I did when I had a lighting system before I was relieved of the bike I had equipped with it.

[Biggsy]

The trouble is that "lit" roads aren't always lit all the way along due to the odd missing or broken street lamp.  It does help to have a light bright enough to spot the potholes in the dark patches.  They're also handy when taking a detour down some unlit path or something, and you may not want a second light on the bike just for those.  Of course theyshould be pointed down, though.

[Jaded]

The fkers have been pointing their lights at me and making me wave pitifully at them to try to get them to dip their beams.

This is payback time.

Besides, with a cap with a peak, rather than a prayer helmet, I can dip my head and say goodbye to their Xenon excess.

[tonycollinet]

I use a stupidly bright P7 LED based light. My commute is 50% unlit country lanes.

It has the added benefit of a WTF factor, and motorists definately think twice (or worst case only once - but still once more than usual ) cos they have no idea what you are.

Sadly I cannot use the strobe mode. It is not designed as a bike light, and the strobe frequency is definatly in the epilepsy inducing range - not what I want to cause in an oncoming driver.

[rae]

Metal Halide for me, with a backup L&M Vega.    The halide is aimed precisely at the average driver's eyes.   It makes a material difference to their behaviour.  I've been saved by it several times, and I often use it on murky mornings when cyclists seem to become invisible. 

[GruB]

My lights are aimed at the road as I am looking for pot holes and road debris ( large stones can be a pain if ridden on ).  95% of my roads are unlit and do not have gutters ( variance of muddy verge, grassy verge, ditch, hedge etc. ).  I am therefore using my lights to see and stay safe with.  I am not aiming them at motorists or trying to blind anyone.

But.

I know they are bright and they cause motorists in basically single carriageway lanes to slow when they negotiate me.  That is exactly what I want them to do.

I can see the difference to riding in Telford maybe and my rural environment.  Quite often going home all I have to concentrate upon is a little pool of blue light that is caused by my Lumicycle Halide beam.  Everything else is pitch black.

[Wendy]

I'm also hugely in favour of super bright lights, because of the moton behaviour modification they induce.  Still, they don't always cause this, so it's as well to remember that not every driver looks.  A little bit of irritation is nothing compared with the effect on my safety, IMO.

Oh, and I don't think the "irritation" is anything like as bad as that from bright car lights - which are often much brighter and more blinding.

[Charlotte]

Fiery beams of deth?  Fuck yeah.

As far as I'm concerned, I'll run as powerful lights as I can afford and I'll point them in the place that best ensures my safety.

A combination of the Fantom XR9 on the back and a Fenix L2D Q5 on the front costs less than £70 and when they're fed good quality batteries, they're eye-meltingly bright. 

I usually have a handful of people pull out on me from side roads every winter (presumably inna SMIDSY stylee) leaving me to come screeching to a halt with the adrenalin flowing and my heart pounding.   Since I've been using the Fenix for dark rides and commuting, it's not happened once.

So what if it is an arms race?  I'm winning, baby 

[mike]

I'll see your Fenix and raise you an Airbike SL2.  700 lumens of 'WTF  ' - three or four cars heading towards me last night pulled over to let me through.

it happens occasionally with a solidlight but the Airbike is remarkable.

[FyPuNK]

We occasionally get info on various research. One last year was on road accidents, from it they concluded that most car drivers when they approach a give way are looking for two lights coming in their direction, I know I have just recently read a thread where the EU where talking about all day lights and one argument against was down to cycle safety as drivers will tune into looking for lights and not object's. The way I look at it, my life is worth more than their cars etc so if I upset them in the process of being seen then so be it! My lights are not death rays, but bright enough to make them notice it.

[mattc]

I think lighting enough to be seen by is adequate where there is street lighting, take for example a Cateye EL-530 or two. I can't see the point in lights that are painfully bright. I've seen a few oncoming cyclists (at night) with them angled to highly - and they are not only a nuisance to motorists, they are a nuisance to other cyclists too!

I'm with you Blip, but I think once a cyclist has tasted the forbidden fruit of death ray lighting, they are never gonna give them up.
This seems to be an area where no-one thinks moderation is good

[CommuteTooFar]

But this why we should use B&M IQ (Fly/Cyo/Ixon/Schmidt Edulux) lights.  Bright but the reflector concentrates the light in the downward direction creating a much brighter light on the road than unwards at other road users. So everybody benefits.

[Julian]

My lights aren't nearly as bright as those ugly things that adorn the latest gas-guzzler.

I want lights that will light up a totally dark road and warn me of potholes / leaves / debris, and which will also stand out in urban spangle where motorists are looking for large, bright lights.  Get the sweet residents of Ol' Acton Town an attention span apiece and I'll consider having less bright lights (actually, let's start with getting the sods licensed and insured).  Until then, if they see nothing else while they smoke their joint, fiddle with the radio, scratch their balls and phone a friend, I want them seeing me please.

[andygates]

>I think lighting enough to be seen by is adequate

I think going out without lighting enough to see is foolish.

You may go somewhere unexpected.  The street lights may fail. 

One should aim one's Death Star Main Weapon Array toward the ground: I'm not a fan of dazzling drivers for the fun of it (even if they do it to me, the worthless toad farts).

[mattc]

My lights aren't nearly as bright as those ugly things that adorn the latest gas-guzzler.

I want lights that will light up a totally dark road and warn me of potholes / leaves / debris, and which will also stand out in urban spangle where motorists are looking for large, bright lights.

That 'and' may be the problem here. When driving our cars, we use completely different lighting for these two purposes. There is a separate switch for the 'Main Beam', and its usage is explained to trainee drivers. Bike lights have only recently evolved to allow those of average expenditure to compete with the car lights. There is no established protocol, and the beam patterns haven't been configured for the bike-on-road application.

If you want bike lights that show potholes as well as car lights, you may be surprised - almost all of them can. Next time you're in a car on an unlit road (preferably with a crappy surface), do an experiment:
drive at 25mph, and look at the road for those potholes  and debris. You'll find you can't see as much detail as you would LIKE if you were on 2 wheels. Just the same as if you were riding with 'average' bike lights.

I often see bikes with lights BRIGHTER than the surrounding (dipped) car lights.

Something is out of whack with all this.

[Jacomus]

Blip - I think you have got your thinking of when bright lights are of the most use, slightly back to front.

Very bright lights are the most use in the bright lights of a city - dimmer lights don't stand out against the background of car headlights, brakelights and streetlighting.

I've got a delicious Hope Vision 1 and I spent some time setting it up to shine into drivers eyes at the distance that I feel is acceptable for me to take evasive action at cruising speed. This has 2 advantages 1) I only need to use the light on its lowest setting, saving batteries and improving run time. I crank it up to full power for RABs, and it makes a significant difference to motons behaviour 2) I actually get noticed and not ignored, unlike when I was using my 2 Cateye EL410s

Car drivers do NOT look for vehicles at night, they only look for lights - so having a light as bright/piercing as a motorbike headlight is an advantage.

In a less light polluted environment, super bright lights are less important for visibility of the cyclist. Any old LED with 2month old batteries stands out on a dark lane.

In a dark lane, super bright lights are of course hand to see where you are going!

[Jacomus]

My lights aren't nearly as bright as those ugly things that adorn the latest gas-guzzler.

I want lights that will light up a totally dark road and warn me of potholes / leaves / debris, and which will also stand out in urban spangle where motorists are looking for large, bright lights.

That 'and' may be the problem here. When driving our cars, we use completely different lighting for these two purposes. There is a separate switch for the 'Main Beam', and its usage is explained to trainee drivers. Bike lights have only recently evolved to allow those of average expenditure to compete with the car lights. There is no established protocol, and the beam patterns haven't been configured for the bike-on-road application.

If you want bike lights that show potholes as well as car lights, you may be surprised - almost all of them can. Next time you're in a car on an unlit road (preferably with a crappy surface), do an experiment:
drive at 25mph, and look at the road for those potholes  and debris. You'll find you can't see as much detail as you would LIKE if you were on 2 wheels. Just the same as if you were riding with 'average' bike lights.

I often see bikes with lights BRIGHTER than the surrounding (dipped) car lights.

Something is out of whack with all this.

Yeah, but will a car crash and injure the driver if it runs into an ice crack, or over a chunky fallen branch?

[andyoxon]

Metal Halide for me, with a backup L&M Vega.    The halide is aimed precisely at the average driver's eyes.   It makes a material difference to their behaviour.  I've been saved by it several times, and I often use it on murky mornings when cyclists seem to become invisible. 

Do you flash at all Rae?  I don't have any super bright fixed beams, but it strikes me that bright lights aimed at the road, plus flashing LEDS aimed 'parallel' to road, or slightly up, may actually be better.  I think that in dark, busy traffic conditions flashing stands out more.  Also, from 'a lights in the eyes' POV, many of us drive from time to time...  but having said that being noticed is good...

[Jaded]

I often see bikes with lights BRIGHTER than the surrounding (dipped) car lights.

You mean lights that put out more light in total than dipped headlights, or lights that look bright because the light is coming from a smaller source?

I'd rather be in a car and have a bright light shone at me than be on a bike and have the same.

[Julian]

My lights aren't nearly as bright as those ugly things that adorn the latest gas-guzzler.

I want lights that will light up a totally dark road and warn me of potholes / leaves / debris, and which will also stand out in urban spangle where motorists are looking for large, bright lights.

That 'and' may be the problem here. When driving our cars, we use completely different lighting for these two purposes. There is a separate switch for the 'Main Beam', and its usage is explained to trainee drivers. Bike lights have only recently evolved to allow those of average expenditure to compete with the car lights. There is no established protocol, and the beam patterns haven't been configured for the bike-on-road application.

If you want bike lights that show potholes as well as car lights, you may be surprised - almost all of them can. Next time you're in a car on an unlit road (preferably with a crappy surface), do an experiment:
drive at 25mph, and look at the road for those potholes  and debris. You'll find you can't see as much detail as you would LIKE if you were on 2 wheels. Just the same as if you were riding with 'average' bike lights.

I often see bikes with lights BRIGHTER than the surrounding (dipped) car lights.

Something is out of whack with all this.

I have an IQ Fly which is not only lovely and bright, but can also be adjusted from 'dipped' to 'straight ahead' to 'sizzling retina.'