Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Rides and Touring => Topic started by: Speshact on 19 December, 2016, 12:09:53 pm
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Anyone else fancy half-term week camping just outside Avignon?
Tickets are now on sale for the Eurostar direct to Avignon to London. I've booked on the 07.15 on Sunday 28, returning on the 15.59 on Sunday. I booked for £110 return. I'm planning on camping at the affordable and excellent municipal site http://www.camping-villeneuvelezavignon.com/en-pitch-cycling-hicking-france-gard-16-67.html which is a short bus ride from Avignon. It's 9 euro a night for a cycling/hiking camper. Swimming in the excellent adjacent municipal pool (indoors and outdoor pools) is included.
A bus from Avignon goes to the Pont du Gard - costs about 1.5 euro each way.
My current plan is to take a folding bike and pootle about, but I might be persuaded to send the touring bike down and meet it there, or to hire a bike for more serious riding.
Just floating this out on the off chance some YACFers fancy a meander around Avignon too.
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Tempting. mmm
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Hmmm. A long trip that one.
I don't actually have a passport at the moment.
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I should add that we're happy to provide bed / floor space in London on the Saturday night before and Sunday night after for out-of-Londoners who want to come along.
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I'm not up for this but have been to Avignon... Cycling around The area of provence to the south is gorgeous. Check out how much eurostar are charging to put bike on the train. A touring bike would give you longer range and access to more countryside
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Is it possible to take a bike on Eurostar south of Paris now? Have they changed the rules?
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If they've changed the 'bagged bikes only' rule, it must be quite recent.
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Avignon does not accept non folding bikes.
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Eurostar say, "We're not able to accept non-folding bikes or those over 85cm long on Eurostar trains between London or Ashford and Lyon, Avignon and Marseille, but you can arrange for your bike to be delivered door-to-door with First Luggage. As a Eurostar traveller, you'll get an exclusive discount."
I haven't looked at what the cost is (yet).
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Not cheap, the last time I looked.
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From the customers point of view this should be the easiest thing to put together but of course it is not. Quite how these 'barons' justify their huge salaries defeats me.
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Eurostar say, "We're not able to accept non-folding bikes or those over 85cm long on Eurostar trains between London or Ashford and Lyon, Avignon and Marseille, but you can arrange for your bike to be delivered door-to-door with First Luggage. As a Eurostar traveller, you'll get an exclusive discount."
I haven't looked at what the cost is (yet).
When I went from London to Paris on Eurostar about 6 years ago I put my bike on train for £25 each way and assumed that you could do the same on trains going direct to Avignon. But I guess if they are advertising 'First Luggage' option their isn't another option... I don't know.
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Suggested rides out: loop down to Tarascon/Beauvcaire and back up the other side of the river.
Les Baux (climbing, but magnificent views)
The white roads starting from the turning signposted ;Barrage' opposite Chateauneuf du Pape. Potentially as far as Orange and back.
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You can take your bike on Eurostar to Paris then transfer to a TGV to go further south. Not as convenient obviously.
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You can take your bike on Eurostar to Paris then transfer to a TGV to go further south. Not as convenient obviously.
Have you done that?, It was a real pain when I did it. Maybe it's changed since.
There was no charge for bike on TGV but I had to take wheels off and put it all in a bike bag and put it flat in large luggage rack in centre of carriage, not by door. That maybe a problem if bike is at all fragile / not protected if other luggage goes on top.
If train is already busy / you are not at the starting station like in Paris the rack could well already be full like when I put it on train at Avignon (train had started further south). I got on train and left bike in doorway which was already a storage area for bags... No choice as I wasn't going home otherwise. Guard threatened to fine me 100euro if I didn't sit on floor/stairs next to bike as it was a hazard.
I think another Brit had a compact road bike and managed to put it in regular luggage area on direct Eurostar train to Avignon... I would try that option. Others on this forum may know how doable that is these days.
There are two Avignon stations, direct Eurostar station is on edge of town. TGV station was a bus ride out of town, buses are okay about taking large baggage. (Assuming nothings changed since I did it 6 years ago). Studying baggage sizes / policy is a good idea, sometime you may get conflicting info on different sites. Good luck
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I haven't done it myself but 2 friends of mine did it this summer. It was as you described.
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Avignon is a favourite destination of mine in France, having been there many times I offer this information.
The Eurostar train goes into the town station which makes it much easier to get to the river bridge and campsite.
The municipal campsite is situated on an island in the middle of the river. After crossing the bridge take a right and it is the second campsite. Don’t make for the first it is grotty. When checking in they will tell you to find an emplacement and let them know the number. Ignore this make for the grass area along the riverside fence. You will see some picnic tables, pitching by and using one of them makes for easier camping. Pitch your tent and then let them know where you are. I have never had a problem but a Dutch couple came and pitched by us and was told they shouldn’t. They just acted as if they didn’t understand and the site warden just walked away shaking his head muttering something about foreigners.
Cycling to a from the Pont du Gard is easy from the campsite about 38 miles round trip. My wife and I have done it on folders and touring bikes. If you head to Remoulins go over the bridge and turn right up the back lane along the river you can cycle right upto the Pont with the best view and shortest distance. The visitor centre route is longer and busier and you will have to walk through the exhibits.
Hope this helps.
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The Eurostar train goes into the town station which makes it much easier to get to the river bridge and campsite.
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Not any more - now that the Eurostar carries on to Marseille it stops at the TGV station on the edge of the town (I was there last June, and the previous June) - that said you can get a local train from the TGV to the town station.
... and if you are coming home from the S of France on Eurostar remember that there is no immigration stuff at the start of your journey - you and all the luggage has to get off the train at Lille, go through the UK border control and get back on the train - takes 70-90 minutes so I'm told. [When we returned from the south we took the TGV to Lille and got on the Eurostar as normal (and much cheaper)]
... and to add another dimension to getting a proper bike to the S of France - have a look at taking Eurostar to Lille and changing to the TGV (more and more TGVs are now taking wheeled-on bikes, rather than in a "housse" aka a bike bag)
Rob
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snip
The Eurostar train goes into the town station which makes it much easier to get to the river bridge and campsite.
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you can get a local train from the TGV to the town station.
That is a new option then 3 years ago it was a bus service. There is a cycleway from TGV station to river bridge. Across the main car park to the left is a path that leads past some offices, alongside a dual carriageway and onto a riverside cycleway. Just follow that to the bridge.
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I thought the TGVs to the south remained resolutely non-bike reservation.
Booking bikes on TGVs means you must travel second class. There are no bike spaces in first class carriages.
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snip
The Eurostar train goes into the town station which makes it much easier to get to the river bridge and campsite.
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you can get a local train from the TGV to the town station.
That is a new option then 3 years ago it was a bus service. There is a cycleway from TGV station to river bridge. Across the main car park to the left is a path that leads past some offices, alongside a dual carriageway and onto a riverside cycleway. Just follow that to the bridge.
It's quite literally a 5 minute journey - and bikes are carried free!
Rob
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I thought the TGVs to the south remained resolutely non-bike reservation.
Booking bikes on TGVs means you must travel second class. There are no bike spaces in first class carriages.
That was my understanding re trains to/from the south but I understand that new rolling stock that's being introduced will have some bike spaces (that's according to an SNCF homme I spoke to at Marseille in June this year)
Rob
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Good news. That will make it much easier getting back from Fleche Velocio next Easter then. Last time we had to bag our bikes.
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There appears to be some useful information here about bikes on French trains http://www.freewheelingfrance.com/planning-a-trip/bikes-and-french-trains.html
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http://www.sncf.com/en/services/travelling-with-your-bike
and select "National Trains" for a map of TGVs that allow bike booking. It includes the previously unavailable lines south of Lyon.
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I don't know if European Bike Express mediterranean routes might be an option for anybody interested. They go to Orange which appears to be the closest drop off point and seem to be travelling south at about the time indicated.
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The arrival in Orange is (or always has been)early in the very early morning. Take the main(ish) road out via Roquemaure and then get onto the little roads after La Defraisse through the vineyards until the sharp little turn for the dam. Either cross the dam and follow the tracks and little roads down to the campsite or turn rt onto the main road and ride past the castles in Villeneuve and the market, which will just be setting up if it is on, with fruit and other noms, and then over the bridge to the campsite. The Royaume bridge has a cycle track and is also good access to the town via the continuation on the Daladier bridge.
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A hoped-for planned trip has fallen through and I am very suddenly available, and extremely interested in this trip. I have a feeling my passport runs out this year. Good! When I replace it I will still get an EU one.
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My passport has expired already but I'm not inclined to replace it until we have plans to travel. I'm thinking that we need to revisit some islands in the north of the UK again. Shetland is nice...
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You thinking of taking your Brompton WB?
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No. I shall take my Thorn. Will work out the best way to get it on a train.
I was right about my passport: it expires on 26th June - my birthday. I have just filled in the application. I will nip down to the station tomorrow to get some suitable photos.
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Perhaps we can compare notes via PM?
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http://www.seat61.com/bike-by-train.htm#France
That is probably one of the most informative pages we are likely to find. TGVs may well have bike restrictions. Slower trains don't.
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Most excellent adventures around Avignon are for sure if Wowbagger and Canardly are present. Any others tempted?
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Well looks like the train or nothing and this may be a slower journey with much faffage. Air is out, and ferry/car is out. Interesting to note that old fogies get 25% discount with off peak non TGV. (note that TGV booking still asks for age group.)
https://uk.voyages-sncf.com/en/train-tickets/travelling-with-your-bike (https://uk.voyages-sncf.com/en/train-tickets/travelling-with-your-bike)
Edit. SNCF site now appears to have an on line bike reservation slot with ticket sales for TGV folded or unfolded but too early to book as yet.
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Seat61 Man knows his stuff but isn't always up to date. I'd be inclined to believe the SNCF map.
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Ongoing discussion about bikes on European trains here http://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=111472
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Could well be London with change at Lille etc.
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It's tempting, but if I do it I'll be extending it to a 2 week trip, the amount of faffing re travel doesn't really make it worthwhile otherwise. Liverpool - London, London to Lille or Paris and then on from there. I'll have to take a detailed look at those train sites and see which ones allow unbagged bikes.
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TGV Calais Lille is very reasonable and bike friendly.
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Tickets are bookable for this now. Research is under way...
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Excellent!
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I am contemplating going a day or two earlier and leaving a day or two later than the OP's dates. I was wondering about getting to Calais via the shuttle bus and cycling to Lille to pick up the train to Avignon. Calais - Lille is about 60 miles.
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Can anyone confirm that a French travel pass does actually include UK rail journeys to and from the border referred to in the terms and cons for a French TP?
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According to voyages-SNCF, Eurostar is included on the Interrail travel pass. However, there is a booking fee of £26.50. That also might be subject to an extra £10 handling fee. The "Cheap flights" song suddenly starts up in my ear-worm generator.
You can take bikes on the Interrail pass as well, but let them know you are taking a bike at the time of booking.
PS I have just bought a 4-days-in-one-month Interrail pass for France, starting 20th May. £161 including postage of £10 (express delivery).
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Ditto. Now to find out how to actually get there.... :-D Rob Gull has written elsewhere about bike bags.
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Ditto. Now to find out how to actually get there.... :-D Rob Gull has written elsewhere about bike bags.
Linky?
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They are old cyling Uk posts and I think things are different now. I will ask him however for travel tips. Regional trains are possible but will take an awfully long time. e.g.
Calais, Boulogne Dijon via Joinville, Lyon, Avignon with each step several hours duration with additional connection time. (and need also to check for maintenance works). Limitations can also apply during rush hour.
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Why not get a fast train and then hire a bike for a few days?
http://www.provence-bike.com
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We have discussed this and may revisit thanks Jen.
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According to the website Jen linked to that would be 83 euros from Monday to Saturday for a Cannondale "Sport Trekking" bike.
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Why not get a fast train and then hire a bike for a few days?
http://www.provence-bike.com
Quick comment - Eurostar from London and almost all of the TGV trains stop at Avignon TGV station which is out of town by some distance/
(and I have replied to Canardly's PM with some info and experience - and Eurostar only runs on Fridays & Saturdays with one return trip each day - more frequent services start in June)
Rob
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TGV station is 2 miles out of town.
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TGV station is 2 miles out of town.
Ah - sorry, I was getting confused with the TGV station at Aix which is a greater distance from the centre of town.
Rob
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Thanks Rob seems to me as a novice that it is incredibly confusing at the best of times. Anyway, two miles suggests that pushing a stripped down tourer into a bike bag and everything else including panniers into a holdall is doable, if terminating in a journey by taxi to the campsite and sorting the bikes out there. Experiments in bike frame manipulation to follow. Wow has already started. Everything would be so much easier if train companies could rediscover guards vans. If we can find a suitable methodology we can think about reservations.
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I decided the faff of trying to deal with full size bikes was just too much, so we just took the folders on Eurostar to Avignon last year. I think the best bit was opening the train door, stepping onto the platform, and having the heat just hit you.
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I decided the faff of trying to deal with full size bikes was just too much, so we just took the folders on Eurostar to Avignon last year. I think the best bit was opening the train door, stepping onto the platform, and having the heat just hit you.
Indeed the heat after an early, cold start at St Pancras in late-June was pleasant, although I didn't have a bike with me . . . and I felt really important with the (pre-booked) cab driver holding up a card saying "Mr Robert" - obviously confused by the UK convention of first name, second name rather than French convention the other way round.
... and the station has one of those "walk up and play" pianos . . . when we were back at the station on our return journey a kid about 12 sat and played classical stuff just as Mozart might have done - amazing.
Rob
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I still have the option of overhauling my Brompton and working out how to carry the luggage.
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Now steering towards light weight bike and back pack/ruck sack with single tent. Avignon should be warmish.
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One of the vagaries of older age is getting your strides on and off in a single tent which can be a tad problematic.
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My Bike Sack arrived. I haven't tried fitting the bike in it yet but I have "offered it up" against the bike. I reckon that the bike will fit in easily enough with the wheels off and the racks on.
I think my preference is still to take the Thorn, because it's a much more comfortable ride than my Brompton. I hardly ever use the Brompton as a result. If I do choose to take the Thorn, Bob, you are welcome to take my Brompton.
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Mmmm seen a Hubba Hubba at a very reasonable price.........
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My Bike Sack arrived. I haven't tried fitting the bike in it yet but I have "offered it up" against the bike. I reckon that the bike will fit in easily enough with the wheels off and the racks on.
I think my preference is still to take the Thorn, because it's a much more comfortable ride than my Brompton. I hardly ever use the Brompton as a result. If I do choose to take the Thorn, Bob, you are welcome to take my Brompton.
Well, once I took the rear mudguard off the Thorn fitted into the Bikesack pretty easily. The problem is carrying the bugger.
I'm looking into getting the ferry!
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Carrying a bagged bike any distance is a recipe for pain, frustration & self harm, especially if carrying a holdall full of camping gear as well. Luggage trolleys are your friend, if you can find one.
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Looks like we are heading towards Bromptons for this trip but trolleys will still be most welcome. :thumbsup:
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Today I bought Michelin Local 332 of Drome and Vaucluse. I fully expect now to read that Wowbagger and Canardly did the same thing today.
My folding bike fits into its folding bike bag. A quick repair on a known fault on the bike has been undertaken, I think successfully. I should probably give it more of a service before leaving.
I have started assembling a packing list in my head. My passport and E1whatever are up to date. Where are my tickets, in fact do I have paper tickets? Must update France on the Garmin. Need to start charging AA batteries.
I nearly bought a book on wild swimming in France, but I think I'll settle for the municipal pool by the campsite probably...
Blimey, going on holiday is complicated.
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Beaucoup de faff is taking place I can assure you. 28 Deg C today in Avignon. (During this time I am also trying to strip wallpaper in the lounge, being a man I can't handle the multi tasking stress).
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I have ordered (should arrive tomorrow) a Ravpower solar charger. It should be able to keep my 26ah battery charged and that ought to keep the phone and AA batteries topped up.
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Beaucoup de faff is taking place I can assure you. 28 Deg C today in Avignon. (During this time I am also trying to strip wallpaper in the lounge, being a man I can't handle the multi tasking stress).
Surprised that you can manage to post about it ... :D
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I have just been map-jibbling with the Garmin and have discovered that there's this little place a short potter north of Avignon called Chateuneuf-du-Pape. I'm sure I've heard of that for some reason...
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I was keeping that for another day...... Now a Bromton's bottle carrying capacity is............ Apparently CNDP is at the top of a very big hill.
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Well, Canardly and I are in situ and outside le Bar de la Mairie. Weather hot and sunny. Did not have the most auspicious of starts when some light-fingered git picked my pocket at Lille station and then put my wallet back in my pocket. When I came to pay for a drink on the train there were no notes left. Clearly not interested in cards.
I had just transferred €100 over, and I think there was about £100 in there already. Oh well, I should be more careful I suppose. Will probably reportv it to le gendarmerie le matin. Merde!
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Hmmm. Bad news about the money Wow. Quite surprised that the perp replaced the wallet though - they usually just discard the wallet having trousered the cash. You were fortunate in your misfortune if you get my meaning.
I've had a wallet picked by having my jeans arse pocket slashed. I didn't even know about it until I went for the wallet. A friend has just come home from Tuscany and she had her purse taken from her bumbag which she wears on her front!
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Peli told me, after a google, that it is quite common to put the wallet back. There are good reasons. My insurance has a £100 excess. I have no proof whatever that the money was nicked. I don't have to go through the rigmarole of cancelling cards etc, which would force me to tell les flics because the banks would insist. So I would have to give up a morning of my holiday to tell a disinterested copper about my own carelessness just for a chance of retrieving £80 on my insurance. Hardly worth the bother. I do have 3 hours to kill in Lille in the way back so I will report it then. Moreover I am sure I know who the culprit was. I saw a youngish guy walking reasonably briskly around the station a couple of times and as our train was called he followed us into the lift. He either nicked it then or while we were manhandling our luggage onto the train.
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Charlie est arrivé.
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That was a fantastic 10 days and I would love to go back soon. Marvellous place, great campsite chosen by Speshact. I will do a write up at some point. For the moment, I am trying to retrieve my belongings from France. I left my Tilley hat in the restaurant on Sunday evening - telephone and email contact made with the owners so hopefully that will be retrievable - but the journey south was so fraught/painful, trying to carry a Brompton in a bag, that Canardly and I decided to send them back by courier. I received an email this morning to state that the bags were not on the company's system.
It transpires that they were not collected because a) the reception was closed when the driver arrived and b) the campsite owners were in hospital because the lady, who was very heavily pregnant when we were there, isn't any more! So, I might have to go back to France sooner than expected to collect my Bromptons...
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An excellent week with Wowbagger and Canardly. Sad to hear that the bike transport scheme didn't go too well for the return. With somewhat less luggage, I managed to get back fairly easily on the bike and train (although it is hard work taking all the luggage off the train at Lille on the return trip to go through customs and passports before getting back on the same train in the same seat). When I've remembered how to add photos here I will do so...
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Some pics but where to begin....the famous Pont d'Avignon with a certain well known hill climb in the distance perhaps. These are phone shots, I am pretty certain better quality photos will follow in due course from les autres.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m158/canardly1/20170528_183105_zpsety20808.jpg) (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/canardly1/media/20170528_183105_zpsety20808.jpg.html)
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We visited Chateau Neuf de Pape sort of...........the French are building new railways which put ours to shame. This line was opened in 2015 and has lots of dangly bike and luggage space. The irony is that the trains were manufactured by Bombardier.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m158/canardly1/20170531_121746_zps3qhlgfgc.jpg) (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/canardly1/media/20170531_121746_zps3qhlgfgc.jpg.html)
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Decision making was horrendous, eat, drink, visit amazing 2000 year old amphitheatre, van Gogh locations and more..... Arles is a tad breathtaking. We actually did also manage a quite respectable 42 miles on the bikes in the Camargue, believe it or not, on the same day. The bikes also generated much interest wherever we went but we did spot a new Brommie at an outdoor flea market a day or two later.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m158/canardly1/20170602_123255_zpshopxsngf.jpg) (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/canardly1/media/20170602_123255_zpshopxsngf.jpg.html)
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As in breathtaking....
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m158/canardly1/20170602_124012_zpsvidq8zr3.jpg) (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/canardly1/media/20170602_124012_zpsvidq8zr3.jpg.html)
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Campsite was great. Staff were very helpful, costs reasonable. Wcs etc immaculate and scrubbed daily, showers best I have used in France, site shady, quiet and full of tame wildlife including red squirrel. Swimming pool next door free for campers. Excellent choice. The owner also does a really good fish and chips supper for a fiver. Would I go again, certainly. Sorting out the bike issues needs to be addressed. You can actually buy a reasonable bike locally at Decathlon for £100, we know 'cos we cycled there. So the question is...........Dining out was relatively expensive but not ludicrously so. I understand that Avignon restaurants carry a premium of about 12% over other parts of France. You can of course DIY at sensible cost or use snack bars where a steak baguette with frites and drink will cost around 6-8E.
Villeneuve is gorgeous. You dine surrounded by 14th Century houses and overlooked by a major castle.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m158/canardly1/20170527_182819_zpszkbzjkcx.jpg) (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/canardly1/media/20170527_182819_zpszkbzjkcx.jpg.html)
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See what you mean about the tame wildlife ... :D
Looks and sounds fabulous.
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A little known international match was played on the journey home.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m158/canardly1/20170605_172204_zpspnng8let.jpg) (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/canardly1/media/20170605_172204_zpspnng8let.jpg.html)
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The Popes were there only a short time but they built this, which unfortunately has been stripped of its contents over time and has also suffered a bit of destruction during the odd revolution or so. Tourist trap restaurants serve meals in front. Look at that sky!
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m158/canardly1/20170526_184626_zpsxqvexj27.jpg) (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/canardly1/media/20170526_184626_zpsxqvexj27.jpg.html)
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That was a fantastic 10 days and I would love to go back soon. Marvellous place, great campsite chosen by Speshact. I will do a write up at some point. For the moment, I am trying to retrieve my belongings from France. I left my Tilley hat in the restaurant on Sunday evening - telephone and email contact made with the owners so hopefully that will be retrievable - but the journey south was so fraught/painful, trying to carry a Brompton in a bag, that Canardly and I decided to send them back by courier. I received an email this morning to state that the bags were not on the company's system.
It transpires that they were not collected because a) the reception was closed when the driver arrived and b) the campsite owners were in hospital because the lady, who was very heavily pregnant when we were there, isn't any more! So, I might have to go back to France sooner than expected to collect my Bromptons...
That's a bugger. For our last Netherlands trip via train, I packed a little collapsible trolley to wheel the Bickerton around on at the stations, which then simply strapped to the base of the rack, with the bag on top.
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I believe the bikes are now "on the system" and should be delivered next Monday.
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And they have been! Phew! Now I won't have to go back to Avignon to collect them. :(
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All's well that ends well :thumbsup:
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And my Tilley hat has ben returned! Time to organise another holiday, I think.
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I accidentally discovered yesterday that we cycled very close to the location of Van Gogh's yellow house in Arles, adjacent to the roundabout and not far from the now demolished railway bridge.