Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => Topic started by: Cudzoziemiec on 16 July, 2012, 02:45:05 pm
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My bike and I intend to help some trains have their railway adventures this summer, but we need to settle a few points of uncertainty first.
1. Luggage. The "Cycling by train" leaflet says take luggage off your bike. This seems a good idea if you only have one item, but if you have, say, two panniers, a bar bag and a big bulk strapped to the rack top, it's not really practical to carry that much through the carriage, and reattaching it to the bike on a swaying train could be difficult and delaying. Also, I'm not sure if this advice is TOC-specific (the leaflet I'm referring to is from FGW). What do people actually do?
2. Locking. The same leaflet says you mustn't lock your bike to any part of the train. That's sensible. But it recommends you to lock your bike to itself while in the bike compartment on those trains that have them. Again, I'm wondering how practical this is and whether theft of bikes from trains is really a problem? Obviously when it's a local train where your bike goes in a fold-down seat place this isn't a problem at all.
3. Booking. The only one of the many train-booking websites that can book you a bike place seems to be East Coast. Nothing wrong with it as far as I can tell, but I wondered if there were any others that people know of or use?
Thanks.
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Whether or not you remove luggage depends on what sort of train it is. If it's a big guard's van train then it's helpful to leave the luggage on the bike. Firstly, you don't have to cart it around and secondly, luggage space in carriages seems to be at a premium as trains become more and more crowded. Even in Pendolino type trains you might have to remove the luggage form the bike but it's worth talking to the guard ad letting him know you'd like to leave your luggage with the bike because Pendolinos have hardly any lugage space at all - the head-height luggage racks are too small even to take a Super C rear pannier.
We don't lock our bikes when they are on trains. If they are in the guard's van they ought to be away from public access and they should b supervised.
I always use East Coast or booking other than for the sleeper, which so far as I an tell you have to book with Scotrail. Then you have to phone through to add bike reservations later, but Scotrail let us down on last month's tour. Because I kept an eye on things the problem was sorted and we ended up with £170 in vouchers by way of compensation.
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On XC voyagers I often lock my bike to the train, especially if I'm travelling with the race bike. The bike storage is right next to the door in a normal carriage, so it would be easy for someont to nick it at a station. Nobody's ever complained at me for doing this.
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As Wow says, the best approach for luggage depends on the train:
If it's a dangly bike space it all has to come off to make the bike light enough to lift, though there's usually room at ground level to stash the panniers. You probably want to pack in such a way that all your valuables and things you're likely to want for the train journey are in one bag, which you can take to your seat with you. Top tip: make sure that your water storage doesn't leak when upside-down.
If it's a generic storage space like a Pendolino or Greater Anglia HST, then you can usually leave the luggage on the bike. Make sure it's properly secured.
If it's a fold-down-seats or opposite-the-toilet-door job on a Class 170 or similar, then you can probably get away with leaving panniers on the side of the bike that's leaning against the wall (this will generally improve its leaning characteristics), but you may need to remove the others so as not to block the gangway. Top Tip: use an elastic band or toestrap or similar to engage the rear brake. This makes the bike astoundingly more stable.
I carry a Wilko light-duty ratchet strap for train journeys. They're incredibly useful for securing bikes in the absence of decent provision on the train (worn-out velcro is a common problem on the supplied straps), and for securing multiple cycles together neatly on comuter-type trains.
I don't bother locking my bike, though with the recumbent I can generally rely on its unusualness and unintuitive manhandling (I struggle to get it out of a dangly bike space, and I've had plenty of practice) to discourage opportunist thieves. I do remove lights, GPS and so on on Voyagers where the bike is neither in a secure location nor supervisable. The main risk isn't so much theft as fiddling. Bikes are a magnet for bored drunks and small children (though the latter are generally content to ring the bell until they get told off by a parent). Expect your shifters to need re-setting when you get off the train, for example.
I always use EastCoast for booking. It works.
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With a lock through the wheel, I daren't think what happens to the spokes when some berk gives the bike a hard shove forwards or backwards.
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With a lock through the wheel, I daren't think what happens to the spokes when some berk gives the bike a hard shove forwards or backwards.
Another reason to engage the brake, perhaps?
I've managed to do this a couple of times while loading panniers with shopping on a still-locked bike to no real effect, but I'm a 36 hole 3-cross kind of gal. You can guarantee the law of sod means that if that sort of abuse is going to break something, it'll do it on a tour.
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Another reason to engage the brake, perhaps?
A good idea. :thumbsup:
Jamming half a wooden clothes peg in the lever is another method of how to.
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With a FGW guards van, you have 11 picoseconds to do all this stuff AND get into the door at the other end of CoachA before getting The Hard Stare from staff. (This is occasionally replaced by Abusive Language at Londinium).
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1. With dangly spaces (XC, Some ScotRail etc) you have to remove all baggage (if nothing else it's difficult to lift a fully laden bike up by it's back wheel. I usualyy leave the bottles on the bike though unless I'm worried about security. Often you can get away with leaving the bags on with floor based systems if the train isn't too busy and you have the only bike.
Do watch out for silly 'Olympics-related' restrictions on your routes at the moment on top of the ones in the leaflet.
2. Locking hasn't really been something I've worried about, but a cable lock is useful for securing the bike. I've never been moaned at for locking the bike to the train where I've done it
3. Others that do cycle bookings are Southern and Chiltern. They use the same booking system as East Coast. I switched to those two from EC as a) EC wanted to charge £1 transaction fee and b) Southern often have discounts on tickets (Usually Southern trins only ones, but Igot a discounted Middlesborough to York ticket last year).
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Releasable Zip-ties FTW.
Both to secure a brake when the bike is on its wheels, and to prevent extremes of dangling (aka crashing into the partition) when on board Voyagers.
Don't forget to label your bike with destination station for the train you're on. This allows later arrivals to play bike-tetris (or is it Jenga) with confidence - knowing which ones can be blocked in.
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I use East Coast despite not living there and often not travelling anywhere near there, because of how easy it is to make bike reservations and check the availability of them on lots of different trains.
I also take a careful look at connection times in the journey and don't pick a train with a very tight one in case I can't get off and onto another platform in time with the bike.
Have all your tickets really handy. Getting through barriers with a bike is problematic enough without having to root through luggage/pockets for tickets. You need the actual ticket, seat reservation and cycle reservation one as well because you can get asked for all of them as you pass through the barriers.
I dump large baggage right next to the train while I am loading the bike on so they can't leave the station, then leg it down the train whilst inches away from it (or even touching it) , again so they can't drive off with my bike on board and not me.
Book a seat in the quiet carriage on FGW so you are as close to the guards van as possible.
Ask platform staff which way round the train is coming in so you can be ready at the right end of the platform.
FGW will go nuts if they see you lock your bike in their train. When the train comes in to a platform keep a close watch out of the window that no one without a bike goes near the guards van door. Be ready to give chase and rugby tackle anyone who tries to wheel your bike off the train.
Take a bungee to secure your bike with so it doesn't move around.
Consider separating luggage into valuable and not so valuable panniers /bags so you only need to take one of them off if there's space to leave them on.
Take ear buds in case some really annoying fecker decides to really annoy you in some way.
Have a great trip ;D
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Remove your luggage unless you know the train isn't going to be busy with cyclists. Most bike compartments pack the bikes quite densely (IIRC the FGW guards van packs around 8 bikes/surfboards across the width of the carriage alongside a ladder or two).
Edit: Also you can just dump your bags/panniers out the door of the train and reattach everything on the platform instead of attempting it in a confined space.
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Thanks for all the tips. :thumbsup:
I anticipate mostly spreading joy on HSTs and Sprinters. I'm pretty sure the first have generic guards vans and I know the latter have fold-down-the-seats space, so no dangly manoeuvres, thankfully.
I carry a Wilko light-duty ratchet strap for train journeys.
What is this exactly? TBH I have an excess of wooden clothes pegs over clothes line space (or indeed clothes line days, this summer!) so I might do the wedge tip.
Don't forget to label your bike with destination station for the train you're on. This allows later arrivals to play bike-tetris (or is it Jenga) with confidence - knowing which ones can be blocked in.
Useful tip.
Book a seat in the quiet carriage on FGW so you are as close to the guards van as possible.
Damn! Too late! For first journey at least.
Be ready to give chase and rugby tackle anyone who tries to wheel your bike off the train.
Somehow, I can very easily imagine you doing this!
Have a great trip ;D
:thumbsup:
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Here's my advice: http://dailycycle.co.uk/blogs/articles/5918379-cycle-touring-basics-trains
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I shall be investing in zip ties. ^
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I shall be investing in zip ties. ^
I stick the cycle reservation bike ticket under the edge of a bottle carrier, it's easy to remove and replace that way.
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Also easy to fall out and get lost on a platform or in a station lift, no? Anyway I shall most likely have a Swiss Army knife with me, and whereas Helvetian Soldiers use this to carve toblerones by hand out of dolomite or defend the neutrality of gold bars, I can use mine for releasing orange cardboard from handlebar captivity.
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Tip 1. Get a Brompton.
Tip 2. See Tip 1....
;)
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It's not quite as easy to tour with a Brompton, but I can see the attraction.
*remembers particularly awful time at Newport where they changed the platform with seconds to spare, the lift was full, and I had to resort to the kindness of strangers* (I had already taken my luggage off the bike in readiness, and then had to run with bike & luggage up and down stairs to the platform - luckily a very kind stranger took pity on me and grabbed a couple of my panniers, as there wasn't really time to put them all back on again. Oh, and jane also grabbed one...)
And then the train staff told us off for not being ready to load up our bikes...I could sit rocking in a corner every time I recall that moment :hand:
This is not particularly helpful Cudzo, I'm sorry, but at the very least it is useful to know that These Things Happen...
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It's not quite as easy to tour with a Brompton, but I can see the attraction.
*remembers particularly awful time at Newport where they changed the platform with seconds to spare, the lift was full, and I had to resort to the kindness of strangers* (I had already taken my luggage off the bike in readiness, and then had to run with bike & luggage up and down stairs to the platform - luckily a very kind stranger took pity on me and grabbed a couple of my panniers, as there wasn't really time to put them all back on again. Oh, and jane also grabbed one...)
And then the train staff told us off for not being ready to load up our bikes...I could sit rocking in a corner every time I recall that moment :hand:
This is not particularly helpful Cudzo, I'm sorry, but at the very least it is useful to know that These Things Happen...
We had that situation only more so at Newport - we just couldn't even get close to the lifts (or stairs) when our train pulled out, but they are obviously used to it and were completely calm about letting us on the next train :).
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I carry a Wilko light-duty ratchet strap for train journeys.
What is this exactly?
About a metre and a half of webbing strap with a ratchet on it. You'll find it in the car section.
It's long enough to do things like secure an USS recumbent to the wooden partition on a voyager, preventing it from swinging sideways and bashing the crap out of your bars/mirrors/gear controls, or to anchor a stack of five bikes to the foldy seat on a Class 350. As it's yours and the ratchet actually works, it's also quicker than arsing about with the velcro and wedges on a FGW HST. In extremis, it can be used to wedge a lowracer at a comedy angle on the open air carriages of the Welsh Highland Railway.
Also uber-handy for securing loads on racks, trailers and the like, obviously.
Like a bungee, but longer and more cooperative. And packs away more neatly.
Don't forget to label your bike with destination station for the train you're on. This allows later arrivals to play bike-tetris (or is it Jenga)
Fairly sure it's Sokoban :)
Also worthwhile on services where you need a guard/driver/cleaner/screwdriver/pirate carriage key to open the bike compartment. Having the destination marked increases the chances of them remembering to open the door for you.
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Also worthwhile on services where you need a guard/driver/cleaner/screwdriver/pirate carriage key to open the bike compartment. Having the destination marked increases the chances of them remembering to open the door for you.
Note that's 'increases' not 'guarantees'. I've lost count of the number of times they've forgotten on the last train into Euston on a Friday night.
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I stick the cycle reservation bike ticket under the edge of a bottle carrier, it's easy to remove and replace that way.
I stick them in my front wheel spokes. You'd be surprised how long they last, probably around 3000+ miles in all weather conditions before they need to be straightened up.
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But I can't ride a Brompton - I don't have a bowler hat!
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Also worthwhile on services where you need a guard/driver/cleaner/screwdriver/pirate carriage key to open the bike compartment. Having the destination marked increases the chances of them remembering to open the door for you.
Note that's 'increases' not 'guarantees'. I've lost count of the number of times they've forgotten on the last train into Euston on a Friday night.
At least Euston is a terminus. I've had to wave frantically at a gaggle of staff chatting halfway down the train while standing by the locked door. Fortunately, someone noticed before the train left York for points south.
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But I can't ride a Brompton - I don't have a bowler hat!
Then buy one!
Really, some people just have no imagination...
Get one with a non-stick lining, and you can cook in it while camping...
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V. Useful thread this.
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But I can't ride a Brompton - I don't have a bowler hat!
Get one with a non-stick lining, and you can cook in it while camping...
Is it true that you have to offer it to a pregnant woman if she's caught short?
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Is that the Brompton or the bowler hat??
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The Brompton of course - how's a pregnant woman going to get anywhere on a bowler hat? Unless it's Bedknobs and Broomsticks.
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Trains with guards vans:
When waiting for a super long intercity type train with a guards van, make sure you ask multiple staff members which end of the train the van is. If I hadn't double checked the advice the first staff member gave me yesterday at Edinburgh, I would have been fucked. I would never have made it to the correct end of the train in time. I asked two more until I was satisfied their information was correct.
Also, never underestimate train companies ability to fuck you up - no matter how many times you have taken a particular train, one day, usually when you're stressed out and running late, they will change the position of the guards van and you'll have to leg it to the other end of the platform! Unless you're Usain Bolt, you will have problems...
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Running on a crowded, slippery station platform in SPDs is something I do not relish.
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I suspect that even Usain Bolt can't run through a crowd and their Luggages, while carrying a bike.
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Just ride the bike down the platform, ringing the bell and shouting "get out of my way."
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Just ride the bike down the platform, ringing the bell and shouting "get out of my way."
Flashing red light should keep the driver in the station while you get from one end of the train to the other :demon:
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Just ride the bike down the platform, ringing the bell and shouting "get out of my way."
One day their nonsense is going to break me, and I shall do exactly this. (And then I'll wonder why I ever bothered walking).
FGW staff either :
a) hide until 30sec before train arrives, or
b) have no idea at all where to put bikes on.
Good luck everyone.
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FGW don't stick to their own rules. Boarding a train at Temple Meads, where it originated, there was an announcement that any bike with luggage on it would be treated as unattended luggage and removed before the train left as a security measure. So I had to go back and remove my panniers and rolled-up tent before waddling down the gangway with them. Exuse me, bang, bash, sorry. But getting on at Didcot the guard said to leave the panniers on. The velcro strap wasn't long enough to reach either bars or wheel and as I fiddled with it he seemed more worried about time - "I'm going to have to hurry you up, mate" - than splodey things. Although I had no splodeys but lots of time. Perhaps they should just say "Ask the guard whether or not to leave luggage on your bike". Anyway, I was glad that despite lack of velcro strap and not having deployed my clothes-peg parking brake, my bike didn't fall or roll away.
In other news, apparently these guard's vans are to be replaced with dangly bike spaces on the Swansea-Bristol Partway*-Paddington line. See here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeddoFChmm8&feature=youtu.be
*Thanks to Clarion for that one!
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That will be very bad news for taking tandems on that line if they do >:(
Hopefully the Exeter-Paddington train will remain as it is.
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It's one of those magic trains that runs on electrickery, and the only GW line with elocution is Swansea - Paddington, so no, it won't affect the Exeter or Temple Meads trains. But it does look pretty impossible to use not only for tandems but any non-standard bike; recumbents, trikes, etc. Even a loaded touring bike will be pretty difficult to get up there I'd imagine (so you'll be forced to take all your luggage off, delaying the train and annoying the conductor).
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But it does look pretty impossible to use not only for tandems but any non-standard bike; recumbents, trikes, etc. Even a loaded touring bike will be pretty difficult to get up there I'd imagine (so you'll be forced to take all your luggage off, delaying the train and annoying the conductor).
Looks like standard CrossCountry Voyager tactics will apply, so SWB recumbent bicycles and DF tourers are okay if you're lucky enough to have sufficient height and upper body strength to get them in and out of the spaces. As it's not a special compartment you can get the bike into the vestibule loaded, and remove panniers and stow the bikes at your leisure after the doors have closed.
All assuming, of course, that the bike space and vestibule aren't crammed with unreserved bikes, luggage, rubbish or other passengers.
Tandems and trikes are stuffed, unless you can disguise them as luggage using bags and S&S couplings.
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Hopefully the Exeter-Paddington train will remain as it is.
I've taken that train quite a lot with a bicycle, since Exeter is my town of birth!
The train is one of those with a small compartment at the end of the train next to the locomotive, which can take (iirc) six bicycles, theoretically not Tandems, but they do fit (ask Clarion & Butterfly). For this reason, at any time which is remotely likely to be busy, a bike reservation is a very good idea.
At Paddington this is at the end of the train furthest away from the platform entrance, so you need to get there early (the platform number can vary quite a bit). They have been known to put bikes on the locomotive itself, which has a spacious area, but I seem to recall that this is at the discretion of the driver.
Going towards London, it's the back of train, which at Exeter is the left hand side of the station when entering via the main (and as far as I know only) entrance. It's normally Platform 5.
I've never had any problem with this route, but I normally only have a couple of panniers, and make sure that I can easily get them on and off the bike.
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Hopefully the Exeter-Paddington train will remain as it is.
I've taken that train quite a lot with a bicycle, since Exeter is my town of birth!
The train is one of those with a small compartment at the end of the train next to the locomotive, which can take (iirc) six bicycles, theoretically not Tandems, but they do fit (ask Clarion & Butterfly). For this reason, at any time which is remotely likely to be busy, a bike reservation is a very good idea.
At Paddington this is at the end of the train furthest away from the platform entrance, so you need to get there early (the platform number can vary quite a bit). They have been known to put bikes on the locomotive itself, which has a spacious area, but I seem to recall that this is at the discretion of the driver.
Going towards London, it's the back of train, which at Exeter is the left hand side of the station when entering via the main (and as far as I know only) entrance. It's normally Platform 5.
I've never had any problem with this route, but I normally only have a couple of panniers, and make sure that I can easily get them on and off the bike.
We have used this route with the tandem from Paddington when returning home from the York arrow. We were unable to go via Mordor Central because of the wrong kind of train for us. It all went according to plan, except for the 9 mile ride home from Yatton station (where we were taken out by a badger on the NCN path in the middle of nowhere at midnight) but we can't blame that on FGW ;D
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Is there any way of stopping this thread disappearing into the background? Personally find it really useful touchstone as a novice with UK train sets.
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Is there any way of stopping this thread disappearing into the background? Personally find it really useful touchstone as a novice with UK train sets.
That's the basis of this sticky (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=49833.0). In which this thread is already listed.
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Running on a crowded, slippery station platform in SPDs is something I do not relish.
Even more exciting on Look plates
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Regards 'which end of the train is the bike space?', I never rely on station staff, as they get it wrong 50% of the time, IME.
If in doubt when boarding long trains, I stand up platform somewhere with a view of the train entering the station, and try to spot the 'bike' symbol as the train passes. If I get the wrong end of the train, I have the additional time of the train pulling in to the platform and coming to a halt in which to begin frantically wheeling machine and self to the other end of the platform.
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when i'm commuting half the time only the front bit of the train fits on the platform and the bike carriage is at the back, so it's physically impossible to get to it. Fortunately the guards are very nice about it and don't mind bikes being stored in the disabled bit (or in first class, which is usually empty :thumbsup: )
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My bike and I intend to help some trains have their railway adventures this summer, but we need to settle a few points of uncertainty first.
1. Luggage. The "Cycling by train" leaflet says take luggage off your bike. This seems a good idea if you only have one item, but if you have, say, two panniers, a bar bag and a big bulk strapped to the rack top, it's not really practical to carry that much through the carriage, and reattaching it to the bike on a swaying train could be difficult and delaying. Also, I'm not sure if this advice is TOC-specific (the leaflet I'm referring to is from FGW). What do people actually do?
2. Locking. The same leaflet says you mustn't lock your bike to any part of the train. That's sensible. But it recommends you to lock your bike to itself while in the bike compartment on those trains that have them. Again, I'm wondering how practical this is and whether theft of bikes from trains is really a problem? Obviously when it's a local train where your bike goes in a fold-down seat place this isn't a problem at all.
3. Booking. The only one of the many train-booking websites that can book you a bike place seems to be East Coast. Nothing wrong with it as far as I can tell, but I wondered if there were any others that people know of or use?
Thanks.
1. This is because of width problems, I guess. You'd never get six loaded touring bikes side-by-side on an HST. No-one insists that you unload, though; I stuck my bike on at Didcot last Sunday with no problems since there were only two other bikes in there and I was only going one stop since I had a bad case of CBA-into-this-headwind that morning. In practice finding the time to unload would be the main problem, since my panniers are double secured with bungees and it takes a couple of minutes' grovelling to free them.
2. I've never had any problems, although I worry about my Brompton when it's in a luggage compartment near the door (it doesn't need to go in the bike compartment). On some trains, like the Bedford-Brighton ones, the bike compartment may be locked by the train staff between stations.
3. Booking is a bit pointless as it currently operates. Few people book because of the problem of doing it online, where most tickets are sold*, and, if the train is already full, your booking gets you nowhere since there is no procedure for removing other bikes from the space and locating their owners. Unusually, last time I boarded at Paddington, there was a member of staff who refused to let my bike on until she was sure that all booked bikes as far as my destination had been boarded first, but this was the first time in about 20 trips.
*if you phone up they usually try and sell you a ticket at a higher price, and you also have to negotiate IVR hell and possibly an Indian call centre
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3. Booking is a bit pointless as it currently operates. Few people book because of the problem of doing it online, where most tickets are sold*, and, if the train is already full, your booking gets you nowhere since there is no procedure for removing other bikes from the space and locating their owners. Unusually, last time I boarded at Paddington, there was a member of staff who refused to let my bike on until she was sure that all booked bikes as far as my destination had been boarded first, but this was the first time in about 20 trips.
*if you phone up they usually try and sell you a ticket at a higher price, and you also have to negotiate IVR hell and possibly an Indian call centre
If you travel on East Coast trains, you need to book. They are miserable buggers who will demand to see your reservation and possibly not let you on the train without it.
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Also if you book your tickets through east-coast, chiltern, london-midland or southern then you can book the cycle reservation online with the ticket (all companies do tickets for any rail journey in the uk).
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If you travel on East Coast trains, you need to book. They are miserable buggers who will demand to see your reservation and possibly not let you on the train without it.
Same goes for Virgin.
And on the odd occasion that CrossCountry are running a HST, they're a lot happier about letting your bike on if you've got one.
Services where no staff interaction is required to access the bike space (eg. Voyagers and most commuter services), spaces are de-facto first come first served, and bookings count for very little.
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Regards 'which end of the train is the bike space?', I never rely on station staff, as they get it wrong 50% of the time, IME.
If in doubt when boarding long trains, I stand up platform somewhere with a view of the train entering the station, and try to spot the 'bike' symbol as the train passes. If I get the wrong end of the train, I have the additional time of the train pulling in to the platform and coming to a halt in which to begin frantically wheeling machine and self to the other end of the platform.
If it's a Voyager or Meridian, then the Dellner coupler cover is painted yellow at the First-class end. The Bike space is at the other end. (Meridian - non-dangly bike space is at the far end of the last vehicle. Voyager - dangly bike space is as the far end of the penultimate vehicle.)
(I will attempt to find clickable links to photos of both yellow-painted and non-yellow-painted Dellner couplers!)
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Bike spaces are in Coach F on a Virgin Voyager, but Coach D on a Cross Country Voyager.
If you travel on East Coast trains, you need to book. They are miserable buggers who will demand to see your reservation and possibly not let you on the train without it.
Same goes for Virgin.
And on the odd occasion that CrossCountry are running a HST, they're a lot happier about letting your bike on if you've got one.
Services where no staff interaction is required to access the bike space (eg. Voyagers and most commuter services), spaces are de-facto first come first served, and bookings count for very little.
Ah yes, I'd forgotten my time living on the wrong side of the country.
Virgin Pendolinos are just as bad as East Coast HSTs because both require you to ask the miserable bugger of a conductor to unlock a door to let you on the train. Virgin Voyagers are not so bad, because although booking is theoretically compulsory, the bike spaces are in the main part of the train so you can sneak your bike on without anyone looking, lock it and disappear down the other end of the carriage.
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Bike spaces are in Coach F on a Virgin Voyager, but Coach D on a Cross Country Voyager.
Oops Yes, you're quite right. Since the transfer of X-country from Virgin to Arriva, and what with me having only minimal interaction with the West Coast Main Line, I'd forgotten that Virgin still operate Voyagers.
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On Saturday the guard advised us to take our luggage off the bikes because of the danger of yoofs with BMXs and light fingers getting on and helping themselves to our luggage. We took all but one of the panniers into the train with us.
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Regards 'which end of the train is the bike space?', I never rely on station staff, as they get it wrong 50% of the time, IME.
If in doubt when boarding long trains, I stand up platform somewhere with a view of the train entering the station, and try to spot the 'bike' symbol as the train passes. If I get the wrong end of the train, I have the additional time of the train pulling in to the platform and coming to a halt in which to begin frantically wheeling machine and self to the other end of the platform.
If it's a Voyager or Meridian, then the Dellner coupler cover is painted yellow at the First-class end. The Bike space is at the other end. (Meridian - non-dangly bike space is at the far end of the last vehicle. Voyager - dangly bike space is as the far end of the penultimate vehicle.)
(I will attempt to find clickable links to photos of both yellow-painted and non-yellow-painted Dellner couplers!)
Dellner coupler? ???
On GW HSTs the bike space is always at the non-London end of the train. Helpfully, they have blue bike in a circle signs on the platforms to indicate roughly where this will stop.
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My bike and I intend to help some trains have their railway adventures this summer, but we need to settle a few points of uncertainty first.
1. Luggage. The "Cycling by train" leaflet says take luggage off your bike. This seems a good idea if you only have one item, but if you have, say, two panniers, a bar bag and a big bulk strapped to the rack top, it's not really practical to carry that much through the carriage, and reattaching it to the bike on a swaying train could be difficult and delaying. Also, I'm not sure if this advice is TOC-specific (the leaflet I'm referring to is from FGW). What do people actually do?
2. Locking. The same leaflet says you mustn't lock your bike to any part of the train. That's sensible. But it recommends you to lock your bike to itself while in the bike compartment on those trains that have them. Again, I'm wondering how practical this is and whether theft of bikes from trains is really a problem? Obviously when it's a local train where your bike goes in a fold-down seat place this isn't a problem at all.
3. Booking. The only one of the many train-booking websites that can book you a bike place seems to be East Coast. Nothing wrong with it as far as I can tell, but I wondered if there were any others that people know of or use?
Thanks.
1. This is because of width problems, I guess. You'd never get six loaded touring bikes side-by-side on an HST. No-one insists that you unload, though; I stuck my bike on at Didcot last Sunday with no problems since there were only two other bikes in there and I was only going one stop since I had a bad case of CBA-into-this-headwind that morning. In practice finding the time to unload would be the main problem, since my panniers are double secured with bungees and it takes a couple of minutes' grovelling to free them.
They did when I boarded at Bristol Temple Meads. They said - announced through the tannoy - that it was a security risk and would be unloaded! No problem at Didcot though, and I guess there wouldn't be at other intermediate stations unless the train has a long stop.
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On GW HSTs the bike space is always at the non-London end of the train. Helpfully, they have blue bike in a circle signs on the platforms to indicate roughly where this will stop.
Unless you get the dreaded "This train is in reverse formation" announcement, normally made just as it draws to a halt and you've already twigged that something is amiss.
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I was once wheeling my bike over the footbridge at Berwick, when a member of staff was walking the other way. He stopped and made a point of telling me that the next train south (which I was heading to catch) would be formed backwards, and which end of the platform to go to.
Sometimes, just sometimes, railway staff are helpful!
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I never rely on station staff, as they get it wrong 50% of the time, IME.
Far more than 50% at my nearest main line station. The platform staff, announcer and display screens all get it wrong, in unison (so at least the platform staff have an excuse). In fact it's very, very hard to believe someone somewhere isn't doing it on purpose (to enjoy the spectacle of two groups of passengers running for the opposite end of the train, and meeting halfway on a crowded platform - or even better, the same two groups sorting themselves out on the crowded train itself).
As mentioned upthread, once you know how, you can identify if the approaching train is arriving 1st-class end first, or not. That gives you an extra minute or so to wander in the right direction.
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If it's a Voyager or Meridian, then the Dellner coupler cover is painted yellow at the First-class end. The Bike space is at the other end. (Meridian - non-dangly bike space is at the far end of the last vehicle. Voyager - dangly bike space is as the far end of the penultimate vehicle.)
(I will attempt to find clickable links to photos of both yellow-painted and non-yellow-painted Dellner couplers!)
Dellner coupler? ???
I've had a stab at this with the help of Google Image search...
Here's a yellow one (on a Voyager at Mordor Central, no less):
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b8/CrossCountry_Class_220.jpg/300px-CrossCountry_Class_220.jpg)
Here's a non-yellow one:
(http://www.freefoto.com/images/43/21/43_21_3---Arriva-Cross-Country-Class-220-train_web.jpg)
Bikes go at this end.
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Dellner coupler? ???
Clicky_ONE (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=meridian+trains&num=10&hl=en&biw=1534&bih=817&tbm=isch&tbnid=8alYD5FWG6AiUM:&imgrefurl=http://www.reghardware.com/2010/09/06/east_midland_wi_fi/&docid=6E5aB201Y0O9PM&imgurl=http://regmedia.co.uk/2010/09/06/meridian_1.jpg&w=462&h=309&ei=2AghUKKtJKjB0QX524CYDA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=610&vpy=34&dur=3525&hovh=184&hovw=275&tx=48&ty=209&sig=109028589923541293065&page=1&tbnh=143&tbnw=206&start=0&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0,i:79) shows two Meridians, both with first-class end towards the camera. Note the yellow stripe just above the coupler.
Whereas Clicky_TWO (http://uklo.co/v/dmu/Class+222+010_Meridian_+in+East+Midlands+Trains+livery.JPG.html) shows one in York station with the first-class end away from the camera. The equivalent bit at the near end is not painted yellow.
And, as usual, Kim beats me to it and does it better.
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Of course, voyagers are short enough to get to the other end in time. If you're at the wrong end of a HST, make sure to remove your Look cleats before running!
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It would seem HSTs don't have Dellner couplers, painted or otherwise, so you don't know it's the wrong end till it's in the platform. Just to add to the fun.
Thanks to Kim and Rower for enlightenment on this point of cycle-rail interaction.
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I think the Grand Central ones have couplers, but the FGW ones don't.
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What is wrong in placing a bloody great big sign on the side which says something complicated like........ BIKES HERE
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If you're travelling first class you have to buy a Brompton, otherwise it's a long walk through the unwashed masses to retrieve your bike.
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What is wrong in placing a bloody great big sign on the side which says something complicated like........ BIKES HERE
FGW do this, cept it's a bike doodle in a not particularly big blue circle. You can't spot it really till the train's at the platform but it's better than nothing.
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What is wrong in placing a bloody great big sign on the side which says something complicated like........ BIKES HERE
To be fair, they do put small blue signs on the side. Mostly. But by the time you've spotted them, you've got less time to fight your way (through the crowd which has just doubled in size as people get off) to the other end of the platform.
Southern trains deserve special mention for painting the entire door of the bike compartment a different colour. Which would be great if there was any contrast at all between it and the normal door colour (they're both shades of Dark Poo, AFAICS). :facepalm:
Anything that actually worked would be far too German.
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Northern have an annoying habit of leaving the cycle logos to fade or peel off so you're left loking for shapes in the dirt.
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God forbid that suppliers should actually be concerned about users of the service...........
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Eh Roger? The East Coast HSTs I've used have had 1st class next to the bike spaces. The only problem for Little Lord Fauntleroy is that he has to endure me pushing past him to get to my space with the rest of the proles.
Northern have an annoying habit of leaving the cycle logos to fade or peel off so you're left loking for shapes in the dirt.
The flip side is that you could put your bike anywhere on the train and they probably wouldn't bat an eyelid.
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Holy thread resurrection Batperson……
Sorry to drag a dead thread back up but wondered if it was worth starting a new one for a simple question…..
East Midlands Trains….what they like for bikes?
I have read their cycle regs which state a maximum of two bikes will be allowed on the services I am going to use next week but how strictly do they enforce this?
I am planning to take the 10.50 from East Midlands Parkway to Nottingham and then the 11.45 from there to Skegness on Monday and the 16.11 from Skegness back to Nottingham the same day (or perhaps the 17.30).
Does anyone know if I face problems doing so without booking a bike space…it looks like you have to give them 10 days notice you need a space ( I might have misread this).
Also, any idea what type of trains are used for this service and where the bike goes. If its too much bother, I might just take my folder but would prefer using a full sizer.
Finally, can anyone recommend a cycle ride in the area for Monday afternoon…. About 20 miles with no mountains please.
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East Midlands Trains….what they like for bikes?
Used them to travel MCR-Norwich and back last September. We got bike reservations a week or so before but there were no checks or comments at all on the trains. Used the same service to go to East Anglia in 2008 (don't know if it was run by EM then) - had no train-specific reservation on the way out and nothing on the way back but no-one asked or challenged.
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Thread resurrection:
David is travelling between Luton (well Mill Hill Broadway actually but we're familiar with FCC aka Thameslink) and Leicester tomorrow.
East Midlands Trains website is ambiguous about the need for bike reservations. What are they like?
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IME, ok - it's the same service I always used to take my bike on when I used to work in nottingham, and basically they were non-anal - the platform at collingham was not long enough for the bike carriage (which was at the back end) to get adjacent to it so cyclists had to just prop their bikes against the toilet area and the conductors didn't mind as long as they could get past.
The proper bike space is just an area under a luggage shelf with straps, and bikes just lean up against each other there, so you could fit more than two in, you would just restrict the amount of corridor space.
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So there you go, Helly - you have all the info you need for David's Oct 12th trip!
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I used to use East Coast Trais website to book my train tickets, because it allowed online booking of a bike space. I notice that I've lost this facility now that the francise has gone elsewhere.
What websites do people use to book a ticket for person plus bike? Booking a ticket first, then ringing up to add a bike afterwards, doesn't strike me as a good way to do it.
Mike
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Southern, Chiltern, Redspottedhanky and I think London Midland still use the same system as East Coast used to have. I tend to book my tickets through Southern even though I only use their train if I make it down for a FNRttC.
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...
What websites do people use to book a ticket for person plus bike? Booking a ticket first, then ringing up to add a bike afterwards, doesn't strike me as a good way to do it.
Mike
London Midland, or, if it's a biggie like when we are going touring to the scottish islands, I work out our journey requirements then visit my local station to book the whole lot. It is a lot of work but when you might be collecting close to 100 pieces of cardboard, I consider it worth the effort.
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You can use the Transpennine Express website too.
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I used to use East Coast Trais website to book my train tickets, because it allowed online booking of a bike space. I notice that I've lost this facility now that the francise has gone elsewhere.
Still seems to let me do it - the booking engine appears not to have changed except in colour.
(That was for an East Coast only trip though. It's always been slightly uncommunicative with the error messages if you're trying to book on a journey with another operator who won't let you book space on your chosen service.)
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I'm losing the will to live, trying to book tickets through London with a bike reservation. Do I need to book individual journeys into and out of London?
Is there a preferred phone booking line with nice helpful people?
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I'm losing the will to live, trying to book tickets through London with a bike reservation. Do I need to book individual journeys into and out of London?
The usual failure mode here is that you're trying to book a journey from, say, Bognor to Birmingham: Virgin Trains require bike reservations, Southern don't do them. So you can't get a reservation for the journey when you try to book online, because the database returns "no bike spaces available" for the Southern leg.
Solution is either to book the tickets then phone Virgin and arrange the bike reservations, or to book as two separate journeys and hope that you don't miss your connection. Or do the whole thing in person at a friendly ticket office, I suppose, they must be able to sort it out.
I tend to book seperate journeys, because there's no way to tell the booking system that you want an extended transfer time (it allows a reasonable amount of time to cross London by tube, which isn't always enough for the bike journey and a reasonable margin for cockups).
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Individual journeys may give you better fares, as well as perhaps making the bike reservations more transparent. Using the East Coast site (or any other that uses the same booking engine) ought to let you book bike spaces, though bike reservations are most likely only available if advance tickets have been released by the relevant train operator.. (And of course they're not available or needed for some journeys, which the booking engine may not deal with gracefully.)
When and where are you wanting to travel?
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Some booking systems, I think East Coast is one, have a box to tick for 'more time changing'. No idea how much time it gives though. It's designed for eg disabled people moving from one platform to another.
Vince, are you still in the Lowlands? That could be a problem.
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So breaking it down.
It isn't possible to reserve seats between Harwich and Manningtree, so you can't reserve a bike space.
Using the Virgin East Coast site you can at least see which legs don't have bike space or can't be reserved.
I can't seem to book any bike place between Marylebone and High Wycombe. So I look at reading which isn't my first, second... choice (I'm sure there are nice bits of Reading, but I've never found them)
Booking individual return sections is more expensive.
I might wait until I'm in Stroud at the beginning of April and go to the station.
Bleugh :(
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I reckon you've got a great excuse for an East Coast westbound tour there. Not via Reading.
If you do go to Stroud station, I want to know if they've still got hanging baskets on the platforms. In fact, I might have to take a trip from Stroud to Swindon one day, just for old baskets' sake. Or maybe just to Kemble!
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I finally managed it. By carefully selecting times, I was able to get an end to end booking which saved 15 GBP.
I reckon you've got a great excuse for an East Coast westbound tour there. Not via Reading.
I have a cunning plan in that respect. When I finally leave NL and have returned the van that we move with, I will cycle from Harwich to Wotton, stopping at friend's houses on route in Bishop Stortford and Burford.
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:thumbsup:
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Just beware that if you book it as multiple journeys and you miss connections because of delays, they don't have to pay for taxis etc. to get you to your final destination in the same way as if you book it as a whole. They also won't hold an ongoing train so you don't miss it in the way they will if multiple people on the train are going to miss a connection and they realise it will be expensive for them if they don't.
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If you book them in one transaction, I believe they still do.
https://www.splitticketing.com/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Carriage.html
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I think the root of my frustration is that the site I was originally using would just say 'No availability'. When I changed to use VEC it showed the legs that didn't have availability and I could then make subtle changes to the departing train time, departure point and destination.
It would have been MUCH better if you entered your booking needs up front and only trains with bike reservations available were displayed.
But that would involve joined up thinking.
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If you book them in one transaction, I believe they still do.
https://www.splitticketing.com/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Carriage.html
That presumably fails where you book a ticket to one station and then ride across a city to another...
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Slight thread resurrection.
Bike reservations: is someone block-booking the things, or is it just a case of cycling being booming and everyone wanting to ride their bikes in Scotland? I'm trying to book reservations to/from Scotland for June, a couple of months away, and there are no bike reservations on any of the services I can reasonably use at either end. It's not just the East Coast Virgin trains which are the problem (as you'd expect, it's the highway to/from John o'Groats for end-to-enders), even the direct Darlo-Glasgow Cross Country trains have no spaces for bikes.
I may nip down the station and ask the friendly staff to check, in case it's a systems problem, but I'm at the point where my options are:
1) Go somewhere else.
b) Cunningly disguise my bike as luggage.
iii) Just fucking ride there and back.
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I'm trying to book the other way from WCK-INV in early July (just become available) and no bike spaces are bookable on any train, however it looks to be that these early tickets don't allow seat reservations which means bikes aren't bookable either. If I change my dates to a date in mid june I can reserve a seat and hence can also get my bike on. I'm rather hoping early release tickets are the problem and that waiting just a few days longer will allow some peace of mind!
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Slight thread resurrection.
even the direct Darlo-Glasgow Cross Country trains have no spaces for bikes.
I've just tried Sun 21st and Sat 28th June and a bike space wasn't a problem (on redspottedhanky)
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Cheers! I've managed to book Edinburgh-Darlo on Sunday 14th June for £15 first class, plus bike reservation. Couldn't find anything for Friday 5th June, and I tried a couple of different sites.
I think I'm stuck with riding the rest of it, or charming my way onto a Scotrail servive and paying the walk-up fares. Hey, I always wanted to ride from Darlo to Oban, this is a golden opportunity. After a day at work.
I'm trying to book the other way from WCK-INV in early July (just become available) and no bike spaces are bookable on any train, however it looks to be that these early tickets don't allow seat reservations which means bikes aren't bookable either. If I change my dates to a date in mid june I can reserve a seat and hence can also get my bike on. I'm rather hoping early release tickets are the problem and that waiting just a few days longer will allow some peace of mind!
My single experience of that service is that the spaces are booked the instant they become available - when I rode LEJOG, I simply planned an extra day to ride back to Inverness.
Knowing this, I left LEJOG after only a brief photo op, and rode back to Lairg, for the most midge-infested night under canvas I've ever spent. It was a 140-mile day with a fully-loaded bike.
I relaxed the next morning, as I had the full day to ride the fifty miles or so to Inverness, but my legs were shot, and I spotted the signs for Lairg station. It was a struggle up the hill, and I just made it over the level crossing before the barrier came down.
On the train, they were totally happy to take a bike, there was loads of space, and I wondered what the big deal was.
There was another cyclist there - a Kiwi on a world tour, and he'd been waiting three days in Wick for a bike reservation to become available.
Annoyingly, when I got to Inverness and finally managed to charge my phone, I had a text from a mate who'd been at JOG an hour after me. In his big, spacious car with only him and his wife in it. I don't think I'd want to swap the memory of riding down Strathnaver with the sunset in my right eye, and stopping for a couple of pints at the Crask before the last twenty miles in the twilight, but I was still pissed off about that.
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If you book them in one transaction, I believe they still do.
https://www.splitticketing.com/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Carriage.html
That presumably fails where you book a ticket to one station and then ride across a city to another...
We have recently had trains booked from kings cross and euston that we missed when the train into St Pancras from Hackbridge was cancelled. On both occasions, they checked on their system that it was actually cancelled and then booked us on a later train, despite one of them having been missed by ages because clarion and TGL decided to ride and had a puncture on the way to Kings Cross.
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I think it's more likely to be booked up by other cyclists if you're travelling at the weekend, than it is on a weekday. I just booked wick -> newark with all cycle reservations on 29 june no problem. however that is, by design, a monday. I'm doing LeJog over 10 days, travelling down 18 june (thurs) and travelling back 29 june (mon). Deliberately chosen so as not to be travelling on fri, sat or sun, but also the minimum days of leave (8) to span 2 weekends and give 10 full days cycling. :thumbsup:
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I had a similar problem recently trying to book a space from Reading to Bristol on a Sunday. Going out on Saturday was no problem, but nothing available on Sunday. Tried Temple Meads, Parkway, from Reading, Didcot, Swindon, Chippenham, or stopping short, but nothing whatsoever. Same when I went in to the station. Recent threads in various places have made me think that there might be a trend now to book bike places on a 'just in case' basis, which is a bit... annoying.
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yea but you have to have bought a ticket first don't you?
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yea but you have to have bought a ticket first don't you?
Apparently not.
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If you book on the East Coast website, it won't give you a bike space unless you reserve a seat as well. It will then give you a seat and bike reservation even for services which don't have reservations, if your journey also includes eg an HST. Odd. But it seems there is a way of reserving bike space without buying a ticket - I don't know how, though, let alone why.