Mercian bike fit experience

[Cudzoziemiec]

Btw regarding the solid headbadge, when I saw it on a non-oversize headtube (1" steerer) it looked too big and didn't wrap around the tube properly, had gaps either side - think it's shaped for larger headtubes. I might be mistaken, but this put me off a bit.

Somewhat surprised that Mercian do headtubes larger than 1"!

[Oxford_Guy]

Depending how the saddlebag hangs, it could also rub on the top of the seat stays. More likely with one that loops round the saddle rails than hangs from saddle loops.

Yes, that's probably back better explanation of the issue than mine - obviously the gap between the saddle and the wheel is the same in both cases.

Anyway, back to the important stuff - paintwork!

Any other thoughts / suggestions? I did have one slightly crazy idea for the seat tube/barber's pole in red and white, but keeping the rest of the frame light blue (white headtube)- there was something a bit like this in one of the older Mercian catalogues on their website, only with red bands instead of Barber's Pole...I'll try to post an image here later.

I do now think for a road bike I perhaps need something a bit more striking than my original light blue suggestion...

[Brucey]

I have resprayed an old Holdsworth frame in gloss black, with a barber's pole in a metallic Mauve colour and old English white. The head tube is also in the Mauve colour and the head lugs are picked out in the white.  To me  it looks pretty good, and it will be easy to touch up if I get chips in the black or the white. The frame won't ever look dull because it has chrome ends (and fortunately the chrome is in good condition).


The other way you can give the frame a 'lift' away from a base colour that isn't fancy enough is to let in panel(s) in a contrasting colour; for example I did think about letting in panels in the white colour, just large enough to work as backings for the main transfers.


BTW this paint job smacks of being 'traditional' in a subtle way; in times past (and to some extent this is true to this day) the metallic colours are difficult and expensive to work with, so might only be used to give a lift/contrast  to a paint job that is mainly in the (cheaper, easier to apply, easier to live with) flat colours used elsewhere.

The flat/main colours need to be chosen so that they don't clash/blend overly with the colours in the decals/badges and those  you might use for accessories. So for example if you like white bar tape, a white barber's pole and/or a white head tube might set everything off nicely. Similarly if you use a Honey coloured saddle, not every frame colour might work with that. Think about mudguards, think about your favourite tyres; if they are coloured (or could be).

I have seen barber's poles applied in two contrasting metallic colours, on top of a frame that is in a third bright metallic or pearlescent paint.  Very eye catching for sure, but maybe one is  best off sat on a bike like that, so that one's gaze might be averted elsewhere....


FWIW if you want to give the bike a funky modern twist, you could make one colour in the barber's pole a 'flip-flop' paint; this is in a way in the spirit of times past, in that this is an expensive paint, difficult to work with.

Apologies if this is your bike but this

is (IMHO) an example of a bike where the frame would have perhaps looked OK by itself but the net result lacks cohesion. Not everyone will agree what is 'good' but just imagine what it would have looked like with white instead of the goldy colour in the frame, white head tube (or head lugs) white bar tape and white-walled tyres; my points are really that it is the whole bike you need to be thinking of, and also that tiny changes can make a big difference.

edit; this looks better to me

and a honey-clooured saddle would probably go even better than the white one, a bit like this


even the tyre sidewall colour is an improvement
 
cheers

[Brucey]

simple can be good too;



trading the light colour for silver and using silver transfers would have rendered it almost monochromatic, but quite striking and cohesive nonetheless.

Here;

panels that are not brilliant white are arguably a better match for (almost inevitably) off-white bar tape. Similar logic was behind my own choice of old english white; 'white' bar tape would look clean for a bit longer than when placed next to brilliant white panels etc.

This one

badly needed a white head tube or something, IMHO

Say 'no'

to blue bar tape unless it is the same blue as the frame....?

cheers

[Oxford_Guy]

The other way you can give the frame a 'lift' away from a base colour that isn't fancy enough is to let in panel(s) in a contrasting colour; for example I did think about letting in panels in the white colour, just large enough to work as backings for the main transfers.

Yes, that's something I was thinking as a possibility too

BTW this paint job smacks of being 'traditional' in a subtle way; in times past (and to some extent this is true to this day) the metallic colours are difficult and expensive to work with, so might only be used to give a lift/contrast  to a paint job that is mainly in the (cheaper, easier to apply, easier to live with) flat colours used elsewhere.

I think I do want quite a "traditional" look to the paint job, but think what I've asked for is perhaps too subtle - so if keeping the same (or similar, but possibly just enamel) main colour, am considering also using something else contrasting that is more bold/striking.

In terms of ease of living with, I guess the main areas that are prone to chipping/scratches tend to be the top tube (because it's what you lean the bike against), the forks and the stays. The seat post tube and to a lesser extent the down tube (because of gravel chips) are less likely to get bashed up.

The flat/main colours need to be chosen so that they don't clash/blend overly with the colours in the decals/badges and those  you might use for accessories. So for example if you like white bar tape, a white barber's pole and/or a white head tube might set everything off nicely. Similarly if you use a Honey coloured saddle, not every frame colour might work with that. Think about mudguards, think about your favourite tyres; if they are coloured (or could be).

Yes, that's one of the reasons I was slightly put off orange or even red as the main colour - a honey/brown saddle might blend or clash too much. On the other hand, I don't necessarily hate the idea of a black saddle. White bar tape might be nice for a "best bike" like this, though does require regular cleaning otherwise can look grubby quite quickly.

If/when I do use mudguards, would probably be using silver SKS ones (or painted white). Tyres not sure about yet, though I don't mind all black ones.

Thanks for the other tips/pointers!

I'll post some other ideas soon

[Brucey]

oh, I forgot to mention, white panels are a safe choice because cable housing is nearly always available (in the quality that you want to use) in white. Black cable housing is OK but is a bit dull on most bikes, and coloured housing may be a PITA to source in the right shade later on, even if you can get it  to start with.

cheers

[Oxford_Guy]

Some other possible ideas - variations on using red/white on the seat tube etc., but a different base colour elsewhere (could be done as bands or barber's pole) - these are from some of the older Mercian catalogues  - Good ideas or terrible ideas?

[click to expand]

Partial red/white, but still some base colour on seat tube, white panel on down tube (ignore the forks...)





Full length red/white seat tube variations:

[Oxford_Guy]

oh, I forgot to mention, white panels are a safe choice because cable housing is nearly always available (in the quality that you want to use) in white. Black cable housing is OK but is a bit dull on most bikes, and coloured housing may be a PITA to source in the right shade later on, even if you can get it  to start with.

Thanks, yes I was considering white cable housing, and even the genuine Campagnolo housing seems to be readily available in this.

[Jakob W]

I have a soft spot for the blue frame - red and white barber's pole colour scheme, though I think it would also look good against a dark green frame; I think the top green above looks a bit washed out.

Some pictures (of varying quality) of my frame in this thread here: https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/300040/ - it would be nice if the guards were slightly off-white to better match the shade on the frame.

[andyoxon]

...
Panel and Stripes (BTW I think this was done in #41 French Blue Enamel - quite like this, actually...)


...

Have to say that I do like this colour scheme, yes, prob with cream rather than brilliant white.   Though if without the chrome fork/stays, I'd possibly keep the head tube blue, and leave the cream for the bands on the seat tubes.   (on a purely personal preference note  )

(not with tan saddle /  tape for me though)

[Oxford_Guy]

I have a soft spot for the blue frame - red and white barber's pole colour scheme, though I think it would also look good against a dark green frame; I think the top green above looks a bit washed out.

By "blue" do you meant the purple one or bottom (Professional) one?

Also if going for a red and with barber's pole, could also use red to outline the inner white-filled clover leaf lug cut-outs for further splashes of a colour, could still keep the main lug lining in white.

Still not 100% sure about the red seat tube bands/barber's pole idea, though. It is perhaps a little "novelty", though some fun is not necessarily a bad thing.

BTW 95% sure I do want a white (or maybe cream) headtube and contrast colour for the barber's pole, though.

Some pictures (of varying quality) of my frame in this thread here: https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/300040/ - it would be nice if the guards were slightly off-white to better match the shade on the frame.

Looks very nice, though I would like a non-dark green frame for this bike, due to owning two already!

[Brucey]

hey Jakob, looking good there!

 BTW IIRC the rear end is set to 135mm and the 135/7s cassette hub (which is further modified to give a leftwards offset to the sprockets on the freehub body and thus even lower wheel dish with the hub suitably respaced)  is used to give minimal wheel dish; this allowed the use of a retro-tastic 500g Araya rim to build a strong wheel that (unlike modern ones of this weight) has decent braking surface thickness. I figured (rightly or wrongly) that an 11T sprocket would be of little value to you, hence a 13-32 or 12-32 cassette could be made by deleting the 11T from a standard 9s cassette and this (I hope) gives a really good chainline on the most used sprockets on the big ring.  BTW because the modified freehub body splines are slightly longer than is normal for a 7s freehub body, you should be able to use a 9s cassette (from a shortened 10s) or a 10s cassette (from a shortened 11s) if you so desire.


I probably mentioned all this when I sold you the bike, but it may not have made much sense to you at the time. FWIW that particular frame is one of the most comfortable I have ever ridden; if it were my size I would have kept it without any doubt.

Suggestion; you might want to splash out ten quid on these
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brake-levers/weinmann-mafac-style-cane-creek-road-brake-lever-hoods-black/ but then again you have clearly gone a long way without so maybe you don't really need them.

I'm glad I didn't have the frame refinished before I sold it to you; now you have the exact colour scheme you really want, which you wouldn't have had otherwise-  nice though it is I probably wouldn't have chosen that colour!

cheers

[Jakob W]

I have a soft spot for the blue frame - red and white barber's pole colour scheme, though I think it would also look good against a dark green frame; I think the top green above looks a bit washed out.

By "blue" do you meant the purple one or bottom (Professional) one?

I meant the KoM - I just glanced at it, and I've seen photos of that colour scheme with a royal blue frame, so I assumed that was it.

Looks very nice, though I would like a non-dark green frame for this bike, due to owning two already!

Oh, absolutely - as I said, if I went for something more Lightweight and speedy I'd be thinking about a slightly more lairy scheme!

Brucey: I'm still very happy with it - it's a supremely comfortable mileeater, and very happy even with a substantial weight in the saddlebag (I haven't tried loaded panniers yet). The only reason I can think to go custom would be to have a slightly slacker seat angle (the saddle is back on the rails), a slightly longer top tube, and maybe canti or centrepull bosses and low-rise brazeons for the front fork (though would a beefier fork be less comfy?).

I'm also happy with the gearing - my normal cruising gear is in the middle of the cassette or one higher, and only rarely do I feel the need for a higher top gear (I think it's 50/13). If I were doing lots of loaded touring I might think about fitting a triple, but as it is I'm happy - I guess the only fly in the ointment for the future is the continued availability of NOS 7-speed hubs (I can't remember whether this one is 130 or 135mm, and I've not checked - I know we discussed both options when you sold me the bike).

And yes, I keep meaning to get some brake hoods - though I'm fine for most of my rides, after 100 miles they do start to beat your hands between thumb and forefinger.

[Brucey]

I'm pretty sure it is 135mm; there didn't seem any point in half measures.  If the freehub body eventually develops a little free play it can be adjusted (just send the freehub body to me if you want me to do it). 7s freehub bodies can still be bought (but would need to be machined to be identical to the one you have) and 7s freehub bodies will still fit onto some current 8/9/10s hubs (like LX ones for example). So you are basically covered I think, even discounting the possibility of good used parts being employed. That said, I would expect the hubs to go at least another 30000 miles without giving trouble, provided they are kept correctly adjusted and lubricated.

FWIW a stiffer fork would be a bit less comfy. If you need to carry a front load, the 'correct' front rack for your fork/bike is this Jim Blackburn one



which (as the photo shows) works best with CPs rather than cantis. They crop up at bike jumbles and on e-bay for not much money. There is a similarly made 'vetta' model too, IIRC, which is not as good as the blackburn one but it is OK. FWIW, IME having the weight a few inches lower down is not such a massive advantage, whereas being able to strap stuff on the top of the carrier definitely is (it can in part double for a decaleur/bar bag support in fact), so for the amount I use a front carrier, this sort suits me very well. Trivially, panniers which are joined together (like the old karrimor ones meant for this design) work on this rack too, which means that you are effectively carrying one bag less when the luggage is off the bike.

cheers

[Oxford_Guy]

Let's not get side-tracked chaps! Sounds like a fantastic setup, though!

So any other suggestions for a traditional, but also a bit lairy paint job for my Strada lightweight road bike?

[Oxford_Guy]

...
Panel and Stripes (BTW I think this was done in #41 French Blue Enamel - quite like this, actually...)


...

Have to say that I do like this colour scheme, yes, prob with cream rather than brilliant white.   Though if without the chrome fork/stays, I'd possibly keep the head tube blue, and leave the cream for the bands on the seat tubes.   (on a purely personal preference note  )

(not with tan saddle /  tape for me though)

I'd keep the white headtube even without the chrome (which I didn't fancy), but that's personal preference

What would you have gone for bar tape / saddle colour on that bike - white for both? Limits saddle choice a lot, though. White bar tape would look quite nice on that and be more of a "genuine" retro look I guess, would still work with a honey saddle I reckon.

That bike reminds me of this old Legano:

https://www.bricklanebikes.co.uk/legnano-road-bike-blue



Pretty close, eh?

[andyoxon]

The 'white' bar tape on my all grey metallic steel bike, gets pretty grubby (especially after roadside repairs etc) and occasionally I try and spruce it up with some wipes.  If it were my choice, I prolly go with  black saddle and black tape (black STI hoods).  Black saddle & tape 'balancing', with the white head tube & seat tube bands... probably, YMMV    If no white head tube - may be more tempted with 'white' tape, but in any event white tape may be good too.

[Oxford_Guy]

This white leather bar tape sounds nice (and so it should at the price):  http://lehcyclinggoods.com/packages/white-leather-bar-tape

BTW I'll be using Campagnolo Ergos with black hoods and silver levers (Veloce 2006-era 10-speed).

[andyoxon]

Pic of someone's Mercian (from search)  https://www.flickr.com/photos/hillspecial/4241612456/in/album-72157623129910486/  and https://www.flickr.com/photos/74418119@N00/2151959328

[Oxford_Guy]

Pic of someone's Mercian (from search)  https://www.flickr.com/photos/hillspecial/4241612456/in/album-72157623129910486/  and https://www.flickr.com/photos/74418119@N00/2151959328

Not so keen on the first purple-ish one, more liking the second blue one

[Jakob W]

Idly following links from one of the photos andyoxon posted led me to this group, which has some interesting vintage colour schemes in there: https://www.flickr.com/groups/oldcycles_/pool/

E.g. in the first couple
of pages: https://www.flickr.com/photos/95190820@N03/27420259768/in/pool-oldcycles_/ (lairy!)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/16322923@N08/41506201135/in/pool-oldcycles_/ (nice colour-matching on the mudguards)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/16322923@N08/27400813708/in/pool-oldcycles_/ (as above)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/95190820@N03/23823472268/in/pool-oldcycles_/ (fancy lugs; lairy!)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/16322923@N08/36859796600/in/pool-oldcycles_/ (v. ornate)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/16322923@N08/36600537760/in/pool-oldcycles_/ (I wouldn't have chosen these colours, but they work)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kylebrooks/33370164960/in/pool-oldcycles_/ (green and red Mercian)

[Oxford_Guy]

Am quite liking some of the examples I've seen with a red and white seat tube, but different base colour - what are people's thoughts on this? If doing this, bands/panels may work better, as a full red and white barber's pole might be a bit *too* much and distracting. For example, this one, but perhaps in a light/mid blue?:

[click to expand]

[Oxford_Guy]

Idly following links from one of the photos andyoxon posted led me to this group, which has some interesting vintage colour schemes in there: https://www.flickr.com/groups/oldcycles_/pool/

E.g. in the first couple
of pages: https://www.flickr.com/photos/95190820@N03/27420259768/in/pool-oldcycles_/ (lairy!)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/16322923@N08/41506201135/in/pool-oldcycles_/ (nice colour-matching on the mudguards)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/16322923@N08/27400813708/in/pool-oldcycles_/ (as above)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/95190820@N03/23823472268/in/pool-oldcycles_/ (fancy lugs; lairy!)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/16322923@N08/36859796600/in/pool-oldcycles_/ (v. ornate)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/16322923@N08/36600537760/in/pool-oldcycles_/ (I wouldn't have chosen these colours, but they work)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kylebrooks/33370164960/in/pool-oldcycles_/ (green and red Mercian)

None of those really do it for me, except perhaps the last one, I said I didn't want green, but I quite like that one, is very different from my BRG bikes. Though if going for something like that, would probably do it with a white head tube and seat tube (with red bands), or something like that. I wonder is that's #62 - Leaf Green Pearl?

[Oxford_Guy]

Also quite liking the red (not the white panels so much) on this Conalgo that Mercian restored (it's in their gallery), pretty sure the Strada Speciale is based on an Italian-style design (even down to the clover leaf lug cutouts), so wouldn't be entirely inappropriate:

[Oxford_Guy]

This one is nearer to my original thoughts, though a bit darker/greener:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/16322923@N08/23238510874/in/pool-oldcycles_/