Author Topic: Thinking about a tandem... (Read 6691 times)

MAC · « **on:** 29 December, 2014, 07:46:34 pm »

...and have a few questions.

My 8 yr old daughter has outgrown her tagalong but we still want to get out for longer rides than she can yet manage on her own bike. My wife (4'11") is also interested in an odd (tandem) ride.

Possible options are:

an old tandem frame, making it a project but old frame v. new wheel size kind of bothers me.
a new standard frame/wheel tandem.
something more off the wall and and thinking of it as an investment in the future.

Storage isn't a problem but I would like to be able to transport it by car. Wondering about a Cirque Helios for that reason. I'm open to all suggestions and tips though.

Cheers

orienteer · « **Reply #1 on:** 29 December, 2014, 10:11:31 pm »

Bike Friday Tandem Two'sday, used to have a folding one that was readily carried inside an estate type car.

https://www.bikefriday.com/bicycles/tandem

Occasional used ones turn up in the UK.

Butterfly · « **Reply #2 on:** 29 December, 2014, 10:15:25 pm »

My opinion of the Circe Helios is well known - I love mine! It is amazingly versatile and very, very stable - I can ride it slower than any other bike I own and Nikki nearly managed a trackstand the first time she rode it. I can ride it with clarion stoking, a child stoker or solo. I commuted 8 miles or so each way on it for 6 months. It always makes me smile, I can't wait until the little duck is big enough to stoke.

Having said that, if you want to go further, my old charge was 8 when I started riding my mountain bike tandem with her stoking and a smallish back big wheel tandem may have more zoom than the circe. Tandems are the best fun

Gattopardo · « **Reply #3 on:** 29 December, 2014, 10:41:25 pm »

What bit about wheel size bothers you?

nikki · « **Reply #4 on:** 30 December, 2014, 12:11:14 am »

Quote from: Butterfly on 29 December, 2014, 10:15:25 pm

and Nikki nearly managed a trackstand the first time she rode it.

I remember that junction - quite near the start of the first time I'd ridden it, third time on a tandem ever and with a not-very-sighted stoker who hadn't ridden any form of cycle in decades

I wasn't even trying to do a trackstand, I just already knew instinctively that we could go reeeaaaallly s l o w l y whilst we waited for the traffic to clear.
Either that or I was being foolhardy

Lurvely machine, thank you very much for letting us use it, Butterfly.

MAC, there's a photo around somewhere taken shortly after my first time on a tandem when, glamorously assisted by CrinklyLion's Smallest Cub, we fit a Helios inside my Golf. IIRC we took the front wheel off and it was pretty straightforward to fit the frame in and rest it on the front passenger seat with enough space for two of the three passenger seats up in the back.

Kim · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 December, 2014, 12:32:26 am »

IIRC nikki also managed a splendid job of riding it with me being a deliberately misbehaving stoker (for SCIENCE, obviously). They really are lovely stable and versatile bikes. But I'm sure Butterfly's right about the amount of zoom.

MAC · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 December, 2014, 04:13:07 am »

Quote from: Gattopardo on 29 December, 2014, 10:41:25 pm

What bit about wheel size bothers you?

Older frame axle width and dropouts don't always match up with new wheels I believe.

The French Tandem · « **Reply #7 on:** 30 December, 2014, 06:23:25 am »

Modern frames have wider rear OLN distance, 145mm, or even 160mm. Older frames are narrower, but most will accept a 135mm OLN MTB hub with a bit of fiddling sometimes. For the front wheel, it seems that the 100mm standard have been there for a long time! You can cope with slight difference in rim diameters with long reach brake calipers.

P Walsh · « **Reply #8 on:** 30 December, 2014, 12:44:47 pm »

If you are under 6ft tall I am trying to sell a tandem that will take a small rider on the back. It is a regular 26inch wheel tandem but is fairly easy to lift onto a roof rack on an estate car. It weighs 21kg. Less portable than some other designs, but a no-compromise ride.

drossall · « **Reply #9 on:** 30 December, 2014, 11:37:35 pm »

By eight, I think my kids were riding our regular tandem with crank shorteners. Younger than that, you'd be looking at kiddicranks.

I'd not heard of the Cirque before, so no comment on that. However, I'd say that buying a tandem that you could ride with your wife is a real option if you use such adapters for the kids. This is especially true as your wife is quite short, so you'll be looking at a fairly small stoker end anyway.

Crank shorteners are really quick to fit, so it's easy if you're swapping between riding as a couple and riding with kids. Kiddicranks are a bit more faff (and may be harder to source); also, they are not suitable for all frame designs, with twin laterals being a particular issue.

Wowbagger · « **Reply #10 on:** 02 January, 2015, 10:15:20 am »

Have you thought about this one?

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=87101.0

If it's suitable, it looks like a real bargain.

canny colin · « **Reply #11 on:** 02 January, 2015, 11:21:00 am »

I have a orbit routier tandem hanging in a shed . If you can get up to the north east of england you are more than welcome to try it / take it a way for a month . I will double check what height my daughters were when they first used it . I would measure it but its under a ton of girl guide tents .Tandems are a bit Marmite the girls loved it older one on the back younger one in a trailer, then later on a tag along. But my wife did not like riding it.

Butterfly · « **Reply #12 on:** 02 January, 2015, 10:45:49 pm »

I was going to offer to let you try our Circe, but I notice that you are in Manchester, so the one at practical cycles is somewhat closer!

J

CrinklyLion · « **Reply #13 on:** 02 January, 2015, 11:01:36 pm »

Ours is in York if that would be any use for a try out!

MAC · « **Reply #14 on:** 03 January, 2015, 06:23:38 pm »

Thanks for all the replies. Been a bit busy to respond the last few days.

The Thorn is one I have looked at but it is too small for me. I'm a medium and prefer a larger frame. Thanks anyway P Walsh and Wowbagger.

Canny Colin, your offer is very generous. Where are you in the North East? I come up to Newcastle fairly often. I'd certainly like to try a few out before I commit. What height/inside leg are you? I have a roof rack. How easy is it to transport?

Butterfly, your offer is very kind too but as you say Practical Cycles is not too far away. Neither though is Crinkly Lion in York. What model do you have CL? If i go down the Circe option I will give lots of thought to getting a hub gear. I have a Rohloff on a tourer/commuter and love it. I can't afford/justify another but i'm quite interested in how the Shimano options are rated by users for tandems.

The Golden Child is quite excited about the prospect of doing some tandeming (is that a verb?)

Cheers all

CrinklyLion · « **Reply #15 on:** 03 January, 2015, 08:15:42 pm »

We have the dual-drive (goes from epically low gears up to CrinklyUncle&EldestCub span out at 20something mph, I think). It was a custom build, based on the Omnis+ I think, from Cycle Heaven with hand-built wheels by them using custom spokes cut to length by Dylan Thomas, who isn't a poet but rather one of the York cycling mafiosi

http://www.circecycles.com/products/helios/omnis+.php

I spec'd BB7s (because I didn't like the shimano disks that originally came with my hybrid) and an SP dynohub/B&M light. I let myself be persuaded to try the swept back bars up front but have since decided that my original plan of flats with really good barends is better and got them swapped. And I got a Topeak disk-specific rack so I can use my existing Ortlieb panniers and topeak click-fit rack pack, plus got the brompton block on the front for when I can afford a brompton bag.

It was the most expensive thing I have ever bought in my life, with the exception of the Den, and worth every penny.

ETA - I was going to Alfine it, but the clincher for going dual-drive was that it would come with 165 cranks front and back by default which both my 13yo and my teeny tiny 7yo cope with no problem without crank shorteners, and which I strongly prefer to 170s. As an added bonus they make it slightly harder to get pedal strike, which is an occasional problem on big speed bumps, given the low bb!

L CC · « **Reply #16 on:** 04 January, 2015, 08:24:38 am »

We (No2Son & I) might be persuaded to sell our Dawes tandem.
It fits at the front (badly, but well enough) me- 5'3"with long arms- or Mr Smith 5'11" and at the back No2Daughter aged 10 to No2Son at 17 (I think he's 5'9"?) . I'm somewhere between those heights but much heavier than either. I wouldn't want to do 200 on it, but I've piloted it for 100+km and so has Mr Smith. He doesn't like the flat bars and as it's a ladyback the frame has a lot more flex in it than our audax tandem by the time it's got my lardy arse on the stoker seat.
I think the eldest cub was less than 10 when I had him on the back?
Your golden child is just the right age for a tandem. Get one quick, because in a few short years it'll either be massively uncool or she'll want her own bike so she can whup your candy ass up every hill going.

arabella · « **Reply #17 on:** 05 January, 2015, 07:05:46 pm »

Mine I sold on long ago but used to have a thorn voyager childback - takes tallish 4yo (with crank shorteners) up to me at 5'3" (slight exaggeration) on the back, though not sure of height range for the captain, or at size we had.
Used mainly as a runaround and occasional 4yo length of tours (ie may leisure days, short days only in saddle)

danhopgood · « **Reply #18 on:** 07 January, 2015, 02:29:50 pm »

I'm very happy with the Alfine 11 on my Helios for riding with a child on the back. Gear range is 24 - 98 inches. Spin out is nearly 30mph - just enough for me commuting and throwing it around solo and plenty with a littln' on the back. Bottom gear is OK for the hills I need to tackle - which are generally short ones (100' gain or less) up to about 10% gradient. If I was doing an Alpine tour then the gear range wouldn't be good enough - but then I'd be riding a "big" tandem.

Downsides of the Alfine 11 for me include the occasional mis-shift and crunch from the rear - even after running in and an oil change - and the inability to shift more than two gears at a time. Those are livable quibbles for me.

Brakes on mine are a BB5 disk at the front, V brake at the back. This works well, although I have to adjust the BB5 quite often - probably every 300 miles or so of stop start riding. From what I've read, a BB7 is worth the extra cost - and weight. The bike came with the BB5 despite me asking for the Shimano disk brake listed on the Circe website - so something to be aware of.

MAC · « **Reply #19 on:** 08 January, 2015, 02:09:05 am »

Thanks for all the replies. It's given me lots to ponder. I will be arranging some test rides in the next few weeks (expect a PM CrinklyLion). I am giving serious consideration to a Helios with an Alfine 11, BB7s and a dynohub already though.

It ticks the size issue for daughter as she grows and can be used by the better 'alf as well. The small wheels and frame mean I can get it in the hatchback too
I like hub gears anyway and the Alfine 11 offers enough range for the intended use. Not having a derailleur hanger will hopefully makes easier to get into a car.
Good stopping power on a tandem is a must and disc brakes/small wheels seem a good combo. I have rim brakes on my road bikes and get by alright but i'm heavy and go through blocks/rims pretty quickly.
Dynohubs are a no brainer AFAIC. I want it to be practical as well as fun and fixed lights with no batteries to faff with are great. I've got an Edelux FL on my 'audax' bike and i think i'll use this with an SP hub. The other bike will get upgraded to a Luxos U.

I'm due some bike related compo soon so i can see this becoming a reality for Summer 2015!!
Cheers all

Rod Marton · « **Reply #20 on:** 08 January, 2015, 09:25:57 am »

I had exactly the same requirement last year and ended up buying a second hand Dawes Discovery. With crank shorteners this works very well: my daughter is small for her age but it still fits her. And it rides extremely well. Remember that the stoker doesn't have to be able to reach the ground so a larger frame size is possible than with a solo. I've also used the Thorn childback - I wouldn't recommend this for a couple of reasons: firstly it is really designed for younger children being much smaller at the back (and also quite cramped at the front); secondly it is leaden, both in terms of performance and weight. Though I haven't ridden one, I also looked seriously at the Helios and only rejected it because of the limited gear range - unfortunately I live in a hilly area and need as big a range as I can get.

I'm certainly happy with my choice and I think it's worth you considering something similar, however the Helios looks to have big advantages in terms of flexibility.

MAC · « **Reply #21 on:** 08 January, 2015, 05:59:38 pm »

Visit now in the pipeline to York (thanks CrinklyLion) and one to Practical Cycles too. I've also just ordered a Luxos U so I need an N+1 to fit the Edelux onto!

nikki · « **Reply #22 on:** 08 January, 2015, 09:49:11 pm »

Be sure to ask SmallestCub for his top tips (helps if you give him an ice cream) and if he can teach you The Buttock Code.

canny colin · « **Reply #23 on:** 10 January, 2015, 11:04:45 am »

Mac apologies for late reply . I live in mickley square 10 miles along tyne valley from metro centre . I am 6' 5/8" 33" inside leg trouser size. Daughter was 4' 7" when she first started riding as "stoker ". Tandem is set up in a sit up and beg postion very much a fun bike. With longer stem road bars would make good tourer I have a picture with me, my daughter and three of her friends on it riding around a carpark . It has flat bars, ( handy when towing tagalong) triple front cogs ,8 speed rear , rear disc and alloy frame . A LOT stiffer than 531 galaxy tandem i rode around Corsica on . Was like riding a space hopper when honking up the hills . We have a helton tandem rack . but have never used it . I work in building trade so have access to large vans / pick ups . J, D tandem cycles are well worth a visit

MAC · « **Reply #24 on:** 17 January, 2015, 07:59:39 pm »

Thanks Canny Colin. Not sure it would fit me as I'm 5'8". I'll drop you a line when I'm next up that way though. I've got relatives nr Morpeth to visit every 2-3 months - probably next around Easter time.

I've now got the Edulux light ready for a tandem when I get it. I took the light off the audax bike today and replaced it with a new Luxos U and added a rear, mudguard mounted, dyno run Seculite . The Luxos B from the audax bike went on the commuter bike so freeing the Edelux. I love the light output from the Edelux but the Luxos lights have much more side visibility and those bikes get used a lot more in the dark and in heavy traffic than the tandem ever will. Also gave the Tagalong away to a colleague who can make better use of it for her little one.

I like this time. The planning, trying, decision making and anticipation prior to an N+1. Something to look forward to for the Summer.