Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Audax => Topic started by: Pedal Castro on 07 May, 2019, 08:25:47 pm

Title: That’s annoying...
Post by: Pedal Castro on 07 May, 2019, 08:25:47 pm
Just had the Flatlands 600 email saying mudguards compulsory. My fault for not spotting it when entering but I vaguely remember that could be why I haven’t ridden it before. Although I almost never ride in the rain without mudguards I can’t fit a mudguard fitted bike in my car. I need to think again for my PBP qualifier.
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: ianrobo on 07 May, 2019, 08:27:52 pm
I wouldn’t worry about it ! No one checks but if wet a nice courtesy for others if you are in a group
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: arabella on 07 May, 2019, 08:44:02 pm
It's not just for those following though, is it - it's also for where you stop and eat.
Or better still, bring the mudguards with you and attache when you arrive.  istr race blades (or the long ones at least) have some sort of QR
Or put the front one on the back and vice versa and you can pop it out, if that's where the extra 2cm is?
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: Pedal Castro on 07 May, 2019, 09:17:03 pm
I wouldn’t worry about it ! No one checks but if wet a nice courtesy for others if you are in a group

But roolz  are roolz. If it says mudguards I need to use mudguards or not ride.
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: Chris S on 07 May, 2019, 09:23:57 pm
As Arabella says - just bring some race-blades and attach them before you ride; they're a ten minute job (don't hold me to that!).
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: S2L on 07 May, 2019, 09:29:18 pm
I wouldn’t worry about it ! No one checks but if wet a nice courtesy for others if you are in a group

Pretty sure the organiser of this actually means it
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: grams on 07 May, 2019, 09:40:29 pm
There was just a bit of a blow up on the AUK Facebook group about this, with many objecting to the very idea of asking if there's any flexibility at events with an "M" on them.

(and talk of riders at one event being disqualified for only having rear mudguards...)
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: Ajax Bay on 07 May, 2019, 09:45:00 pm
Just had the Flatlands 600 email saying mudguards compulsory. My fault for not spotting it when entering but I vaguely remember that could be why I haven’t ridden it before. Although I almost never ride in the rain without mudguards I can’t fit a mudguard fitted bike in my car. I need to think again for my PBP qualifier.
Why not just take them off your "mudguard fitted bike", pop it in the car, and then fit them when you get there. How hard is that? I've had that issue and done just that.
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: Redlight on 07 May, 2019, 09:46:27 pm
There was just a bit of a blow up on the AUK Facebook group about this, with many objecting to the very idea of asking if there's any flexibility at events with an "M" on them.

(and talk of riders at one event being disqualified for only having rear mudguards...)

Perhaps the most productive course of action would be a polite email to the organiser asking whether he intends to enforce the rule strictly. Knowing the route, I can fully understand why he might have added the requirement. It wouldn't take a lot of rain to transform some of those road surfaces into slurry-topped tarmac.
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: postie on 07 May, 2019, 10:00:18 pm
I rode a event recently were the event required mudguards and all riders were reminded of this in a email,  two riders turned up without them- no brevet simple( and possibility no pbp)

As a organizer its the problem of arranging controls and not having riders turning up covered in mud etc.....
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: Chris S on 07 May, 2019, 10:10:14 pm
As a organizer its the problem of arranging controls and not having riders turning up covered in mud etc.....

This has always puzzled me, because I thought it was a no-brainer - y'know, "Don't cover someone else's stuff in road-crud".

But hey, I've seen complaints about audaxers pissing in people's driveways, so I guess there's no accounting for some people.
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: Bikeabilityman on 07 May, 2019, 10:26:46 pm
I’ve been on a few “mudguard compulsory” Audaxes and spotted loadsa riders without them, or with useless ones spraying everywhere.
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: Wycombewheeler on 07 May, 2019, 10:53:32 pm
I’ve been on a few “mudguard compulsory” Audaxes and spotted loadsa riders without them, or with useless ones spraying everywhere.
Spraying everywhere but I get they kept the shorts clean for sitting in controls. So not entirely useless.
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: Pedal Castro on 08 May, 2019, 06:29:58 am
Knowing the route, I can fully understand why he might have added the requirement. It wouldn't take a lot of rain to transform some of those road surfaces into slurry-topped tarmac.

In which case I wouldn't ride anyway, I'm doing this for fun. Assuming I qualify for PBP, if there was a lot of rain forecast I'd probably not ride that either.

I do have some pretty useless race blades somewhere in the garage (used them once), also a pair of those 6" mudguards they would fit to "racers" back in the 70s maybe they would do...
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: Nick Firth on 08 May, 2019, 08:37:18 am
I stopped group cycling about 10 years ago because of the MUDGUARD thing, I was fed up of eating cow shit washed down with road salt & having grit embedded in my eye balls.
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: Peat on 08 May, 2019, 08:58:13 am

But hey, I've seen complaints about audaxers pissing in people's driveways, so I guess there's no accounting for some people.

While regrouping in a driveway at the top of a climb near me, the homeowner came striding out to hurrang us. He complained about 'you cyclists' leaving cola bottles full of piss in his hedge.  ???
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: Peat on 08 May, 2019, 09:02:09 am
I stopped group cycling about 10 years ago because of the MUDGUARD thing, I was fed up of eating cow shit washed down with road salt & having grit embedded in my eye balls.

I rarely bother with the club runs in the winter for this reason. I must be the odd one out because people seem to be overwhelmingly OK about returning from a 3hr ride looking like they have competed in a particularly grueling running of a Belgian classic.
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: jsabine on 08 May, 2019, 09:06:33 am

But hey, I've seen complaints about audaxers pissing in people's driveways, so I guess there's no accounting for some people.

While regrouping in a driveway at the top of a climb near me, the homeowner came striding out to hurrang us. He complained about 'you cyclists' leaving cola bottles full of piss in his hedge.  ???

I hope you put him straight: it's white van man whose spoor is piss-filled plastic bottles, but as cyclists surely you'd just be pissing directly on it.
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: Peat on 08 May, 2019, 09:10:34 am

I hope you put him straight

Tried. I don't think he was having it. He'd found his justification for being annoyed at being held up from time to time  and he was sticking to it.
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: alotronic on 08 May, 2019, 09:11:10 am
I stopped group cycling about 10 years ago because of the MUDGUARD thing, I was fed up of eating cow shit washed down with road salt & having grit embedded in my eye balls.

I rarely bother with the club runs in the winter for this reason. I must be the odd one out because people seem to be overwhelmingly OK about returning from a 3hr ride looking like they have competed in a particularly grueling running of a Belgian classic.

No, they like that look because if makes them look 'Rapha-hard'. Just add a b/w filter and you have instant attitude.

I remember a Shark (which is very clubby) and a group turning up at first control looking very Belgian and coated in Rapha and Assos and expensive carbon dust, and no doubt loving the taste of agriculutal road shit in their mouths. Two minutes later Tomsk walks in off his 70s tourer, shorts and sandals, dry as a bone, smiling, looking like he'd just popped down to the shops. Now I love that people from clubs do Audax's and I am no mudguard pedant, but there's a lesson then, or something, and what a great excuse for a.n.other bike :-)
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: rob on 08 May, 2019, 09:31:00 am
I started Wilkyboy's 200 with 2 mudguards and finished with one.   That could have caused a validation quandary.
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: Exit Stage Left on 08 May, 2019, 09:44:53 am
Just had the Flatlands 600 email saying mudguards compulsory. My fault for not spotting it when entering but I vaguely remember that could be why I haven’t ridden it before. Although I almost never ride in the rain without mudguards I can’t fit a mudguard fitted bike in my car. I need to think again for my PBP qualifier.

I just read your accounts of your PBP 2015 and 12 hour record attempt. Are you attempting to distance yourself from the Audax world, as a preparation for another disappointment?

Why did you choose the 84 hour for your first PBP? I'd view your attempt to do an 'evens' 12 as ambitious, but doomed. However, I can't see any reason for you not to get round PBP in under 90 hours. It's a perfectly reasonable target with a 200 mile+ 12 last year, assuming that you've got a 90 hour place. Completing the PBP project is worth a bit of fiddling with mudguards.
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: Ivan on 08 May, 2019, 10:36:56 am
I hope you put him straight: it's white van man whose spoor is piss-filled plastic bottles, but as cyclists surely you'd just be pissing directly on it.

Around urban areas it's far more likely to be 'Uber juice', had to dodge a large bottle of this pre-dawn in the road on my last ride.
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: aidan.f on 08 May, 2019, 12:35:23 pm
If I bring my trike Tomsk will nod approval and others may wonder about my naked rear wheels.
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: Pedal Castro on 08 May, 2019, 12:40:37 pm

Why did you choose the 84 hour for your first PBP? I'd view your attempt to do an 'evens' 12 as ambitious, but doomed. However, I can't see any reason for you not to get round PBP in under 90 hours. It's a perfectly reasonable target with a 200 mile+ 12 last year, assuming that you've got a 90 hour place. Completing the PBP project is worth a bit of fiddling with mudguards.

Simple answer, so I could start after a good night’s sleep. My DNF was due to Achilles Tendinitis not fatigue and I could have easily finished on my 84h schedule. This year plan is to ride faster and sleep more. The mudguards are not the issue, even with mudguards on I don’t enjoy riding in the rain so won’t if I don’t have to. I am riding in the rain today (with mudguards) because I have to. Sometimes it rains on tour, the odd day here and there is not too bad but if the rain sets in for days on end I generally come home a few days early.
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: Exit Stage Left on 08 May, 2019, 12:48:56 pm

Why did you choose the 84 hour for your first PBP? I'd view your attempt to do an 'evens' 12 as ambitious, but doomed. However, I can't see any reason for you not to get round PBP in under 90 hours. It's a perfectly reasonable target with a 200 mile+ 12 last year, assuming that you've got a 90 hour place. Completing the PBP project is worth a bit of fiddling with mudguards.

Simple answer, so I could start after a good night’s sleep. My DNF was due to Achilles Tendinitis not fatigue and I could have easily finished on my 84h schedule. This year plan is to ride faster and sleep more. The mudguards are not the issue, even with mudguards on I don’t enjoy riding in the rain so won’t if I don’t have to. I am riding in the rain today (with mudguards) because I have to. Sometimes it rains on tour, the odd day here and there is not too bad but if the rain sets in for days on end I generally come home a few days early.

I've experienced achilles tendonitis on PBP and LEL. It generally results from pushing too high a gear. No matter how much you tell yourself not to, you end up not spinning. It's unlikely that aiming to ride faster will alter that. You still have to ride 1200km, compressing that into less time puts more strain on the body.

If you weren't fatigued, and pulled out through an over-use injury, then sleeping less, and riding slower, is the way to get round.
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: JJ on 08 May, 2019, 01:02:13 pm
YMMV, but I generall find that it's enough to unbold the rear mudguard stays from the frame.  That's usually enough to let the wheel-less bike fit across the back seat, at least with bendy plastic mudguards, optionally lashing the stays to theframe a little further along with a rubber band.
Getting it into the boot space of a small hatchback can require turning the bars sideways, or even taking  them off, to dangle.  That way it's not even a 10 minute job to put back together.
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: FifeingEejit on 08 May, 2019, 01:40:09 pm
I started Wilkyboy's 200 with 2 mudguards and finished with one.   That could have caused a validation quandary.

I've had similar, the rear guard returning on someone else's saddle bag. I've yet to reattempt fitting those guards to that bike.

I entered Yorkshire Via Essex as it appears to allow me to leave bike decision to the last minute, the two bikes with Guard options are slower.
Although I intend to have my 600 by then and only wanted the novelty of flat land and to find out if this Fen wind stuff is laughable southern softism or genuine.
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: Brad on 08 May, 2019, 03:04:58 pm
I've got a Volkswagon Lupo, one of the smallest cars on the road and I can get a bike with full mudguards inside it!

Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: Pedal Castro on 08 May, 2019, 05:15:06 pm
Due to the all day forecast rain I was going to put a mudguard free bike in the car and drive to my Bikeability gig but I thought I'd just check to see if my winter commuter/tourer would fit, which it did, just, with front wheel removed but front mudguard left on.

So I'll put the raceblades on my Merckx to fulfill the M rule, but I won't ride anyway if the forecast is heavy rain, light showers are OK. ;)

Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: JohnL on 08 May, 2019, 07:11:25 pm
If I bring my trike Tomsk will nod approval and others may wonder about my naked rear wheels.

I’ve emailed Tomsk already and got the following reply:

Quote
Barrows are a 'special case' - you're ok!

I’m contemplating putting a little sign on my saddlebag:  ‘I’m special.’

John
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: jsabine on 08 May, 2019, 07:22:54 pm
I've got a Volkswagon Lupo, one of the smallest cars on the road and I can get a bike with full mudguards inside it!

Aye: a while ago I was a bit wary when my hire car turned out to be a Renault Twingo, but I was still just about able to get my fixer (60cm frame, mudguards, rack, tri bars) inside and drive it ...

Took the front wheel off and had to angle the bars down, but the guards could stay on.
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: FifeingEejit on 08 May, 2019, 07:32:27 pm
I've got a Volkswagon Lupo, one of the smallest cars on the road and I can get a bike with full mudguards inside it!

Frame size and Wheelbase of the bike may have an impact here;
I've got a Corolla and with the seats down and the bars turned so the front guard is in the air without the wheel, it's still pressed against the seat base and the rear guard is squashed against the rear wall of the car.
"56cm" frame there, never tried to put the 58cm framed touring bike in...
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: L CC on 11 May, 2019, 12:17:07 am
I've got a Volkswagon Lupo, one of the smallest cars on the road and I can get a bike with full mudguards inside it!

Aye: a while ago I was a bit wary when my hire car turned out to be a Renault Twingo, but I was still just about able to get my fixer (60cm frame, mudguards, rack, tri bars) inside and drive it ...

Took the front wheel off and had to angle the bars down, but the guards could stay on.
Twingos are a girls car, clearly- I don't have to take anything off my bikes to get 'em in.
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: Tomsk on 11 May, 2019, 07:08:47 am
If I bring my trike Tomsk will nod approval and others may wonder about my naked rear wheels.

I’ve emailed Tomsk already and got the following reply:

Quote
Barrows are a 'special case' - you're ok!

I’m contemplating putting a little sign on my saddlebag:  ‘I’m special.’

John

... just like everyone else  ;D

Nobody, but nobody slipstreams a barrow, in the wet or dry, despite the possibility of tucking in very close: With three wheel tracks to worry about, Barrow Boys/Girls can suddenly take weird lines, avoiding road nasties, camber etc which will unsettle the unwary. Also they're paranoid about where their rear wheels are in relation to surrounding riders. On the plus side, cars give you a wide berth.
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: Danu on 11 May, 2019, 07:31:22 am
Think that is an unjust comment, and an insult to some of audaxs finest barrow riders.
I have slipstreamed some of the best barrow riders and never had an issue
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: JohnL on 11 May, 2019, 08:23:56 am
Think that is an unjust comment, and an insult to some of audaxs finest barrow riders.
I have slipstreamed some of the best barrow riders and never had an issue
My bold. I’d advise giving me a wide berth!!!

John
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: RobD62 on 11 May, 2019, 09:51:29 am
This, and the FB thread, raises only one question in my mind...Why would you not use mudguards, anytime, anywhere?
Of course, I have ridden bikes without mudguards, racing and training for racing.  But audaxing aint racing! Guards weigh nothing and I can out-decend peeps without them. So, no aero issues!
The "I rest my case" statement...there is nothing worse than sitting on a chamoix soaked in gritty road water. Nuff said  :)
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: S2L on 11 May, 2019, 10:11:52 am
This, and the FB thread, raises only one question in my mind...Why would you not use mudguards, anytime, anywhere?
Of course, I have ridden bikes without mudguards, racing and training for racing.  But audaxing aint racing! Guards weigh nothing and I can out-decend peeps without them. So, no aero issues!
The "I rest my case" statement...there is nothing worse than sitting on a chamoix soaked in gritty road water. Nuff said  :)

Helmets, mudguards... they are all personal choices. I don't like guards on modern road bikes, they rattle, they lose shape if you are not 100% careful how you store your bike and they severely limit the tyre size you can use, often 25 mm is already a gamble with SKS, 28 doesn't fit. I put them on in winter, because roads are wet regardless of whether it rains or not. This time of the year, roads are only wet when it rains.
A light rainfall can be dealt by my seatpack with no backside spray, a heavy rainy day will probably be in the forecast and would probably result in a DNS for me (like 50% of riders on an average audax)... so I don't think I need to keep them on all year round...  :thumbsup:

Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 11 May, 2019, 01:33:42 pm
I noticed the M symbol only a few days before when I rode the Flatlands a couple of years back.  I'm lucky in that I have a choice of steeds, with or without mudguards, but I'd booked my overnight accommodation on the basis of the no mudguard bike, which was somewhat faster than the one with mudguards. 

As it was the wind played nice.  It rained a lot but that was no problem for the company, and I reached my sleep stop before my 1am witching hour.
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: arabella on 12 May, 2019, 07:51:08 pm
A light rainfall can be dealt by my seatpack with no backside spray, a heavy rainy day will probably be in the forecast and would probably result in a DNS for me (like 50% of riders on an average audax)... so I don't think I need to keep them on all year round...  :thumbsup:
I hope in that case you also always pay attention and make sure that when you overtake a slow poke (eg: me) that you aren't one of those people who pull in too soon and give me a face full of whatever's coming off your rear wheel.
(And, as was pointed out to me, similar point to those with shorter mudguards (ie ones that finish above the level of the chainstay))
Title: Re: That’s annoying...
Post by: Kim on 12 May, 2019, 08:09:19 pm
Think that is an unjust comment, and an insult to some of audaxs finest barrow riders.
I have slipstreamed some of the best barrow riders and never had an issue

+1, although not under audax conditions.

Barrows are an extreme example of the species, but the sort of lines riders of multi-track cycles will take through corners and around hazards are easy enough to anticipate with a bit of experience.  (If you don't have a bit of experience, I suggest observing from a safe distance before attempting to draft one.  See also: The dynamics of recumbents and tandems on hills.)